Energy Healing/Denver Snuffer/NDE and apostasy within the church

[AI2.0]

Joel shared this link to a mormon wiki leaks letter on a thread down in Outer Darkness, it is very revealing to some of the arguments we've had up here about the dangers of three things we often disagree on;

It's about apostasy in a stake--a letter from a Stake President describing how some of the members were falling into apostasy--what was driving it?

Energy Healing

Denver Snuffer

And NDE's (the one he mentioned was Denise Mendenhall)


https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/2 ... ostasy.pdf

I'd say that pretty much justifies our concerns about Energy healing--the letter says that it started with this and that people were actively recruiting others to join them in 'holistic' healing and from there, introduced them to Denver Snuffer's teaching on Second comforter etc and the apocalypse NDE's we so often read about here.

[stillwater]

"___believed, as does his friend Denver Snuffer, that a person has the ability to receive the second comforter and can communicate face to face with the Savior."

Am I wrong or is it strange that this is cited as though it is not a perfectly orthodox LDS belief?

[Red]

Joel shared this link to a mormon wiki leaks letter on a thread down in Outer Darkness, it is very revealing to some of the arguments we've had up here about the dangers of three things we often disagree on;

It's about apostasy in a stake--a letter from a Stake President describing how some of the members were falling into apostasy--what was driving it?

Energy Healing

Denver Snuffer

And NDE's (the one he mentioned was Denise Mendenhall)


https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/2 ... ostasy.pdf

I'd say that pretty much justifies our concerns about Energy healing--the letter says that it started with this and that people were actively recruiting others to join them in 'holistic' healing and from there, introduced them to Denver Snuffer's teaching on Second comforter etc and the apocalypse NDE's we so often read about here.

[Joel]

"___believed, as does his friend Denver Snuffer, that a person has the ability to receive the second comforter and can communicate face to face with the Savior."

Am I wrong or is it strange that this is cited as though it is not a perfectly orthodox LDS belief?

maybe but does not sound like for this Special Witness of Christ and those he knows https://clyp.it/bf04xw1j

[h_p]

"___believed, as does his friend Denver Snuffer, that a person has the ability to receive the second comforter and can communicate face to face with the Savior."

Am I wrong or is it strange that this is cited as though it is not a perfectly orthodox LDS belief?

That's the feeling I got reading it. Makes me wonder if the Stake Pres feels it's false doctrine or something. If he does, maybe he needs to be put on probation, too.

But to be fair, other than that, the rest of the stuff sounds pretty out there. But it really saddens me that this doctrine is getting pushed out to the fringe and associated with apostasy now in the church.

[h_p]

maybe but does not sound like for this Special Witness of Christ and those he knows https://clyp.it/bf04xw1j

I'm having a hard time reconciling what he said in that recording, where experiences like Alma the Younger's and Paul's were merely given to them to be recorded in scripture to get our attention, with this:

And there were many whose faith was so exceedingly strong, even before Christ came, who could not be kept from within the veil, but truly saw with their eyes the things which they had beheld with an eye of faith, and they were glad.

The gospel became a lot more relevant and meaningful to me when I stopped reading the scriptures like they were a newspaper.

But maybe I'm just another apostate.

[stillwater]

"___believed, as does his friend Denver Snuffer, that a person has the ability to receive the second comforter and can communicate face to face with the Savior."

Am I wrong or is it strange that this is cited as though it is not a perfectly orthodox LDS belief?

maybe but does not sound like for this Special Witness of Christ and those he knows https://clyp.it/bf04xw1j

about that meeting: https://areturning.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... st-vision/

[Joel]

For anyone that cares to listen there were other questions asked

On January 23, 2016 Elder Dallin H. Oaks, Elder Donald L. Hallstrom and Elder W. Eugene Hansen spoke at a multi-stake youth fireside in Bellevue, WA

Questions asked of them:

What do you know now that you wish you had known as a youth?
What should we pray for to receive the same testimony and/or conversion that Alma the Younger experienced, for our friend who are not members?
What were your trials as a teenager and how did the Gospel help you?
What is the best thing to do to prepare to serve a full-time mission?

You can listen here.

[Joel]

But maybe I'm just another apostate.

Well..... :))

[AI2.0]

"___believed, as does his friend Denver Snuffer, that a person has the ability to receive the second comforter and can communicate face to face with the Savior."

Am I wrong or is it strange that this is cited as though it is not a perfectly orthodox LDS belief?

The doctrine of receiving the second comforter is not unorthodox but in church teachings, this may take different forms, it may not be 'face to face', it may be other spiritual manifestation. Denver Snuffer's twist on it has made it unorthodox. I would assume that is the Stake Pres's concern over it--referring to this in the context of what Denver Snuffer promotes. Denver Snuffer claims every person need this spiritual experience--other wise, they aren't going to the Celestial Kingdom. Do I remember correctly that Snuffer says those who don't receive this in the flesh go to the telestial kingdom?

[stillwater]

Do I remember correctly that Snuffer says those who don't receive this in the flesh go to the telestial kingdom?

Not as far as I am aware.

[h_p]

The doctrine of receiving the second comforter is not unorthodox but in church teachings, this may take different forms, it may not be 'face to face', it may be other spiritual manifestation. Denver Snuffer's twist on it has made it unorthodox. I would assume that is the Stake Pres's concern over it--referring to this in the context of what Denver Snuffer promotes. Denver Snuffer claims every person need this spiritual experience--other wise, they aren't going to the Celestial Kingdom. Do I remember correctly that Snuffer says those who don't receive this in the flesh go to the telestial kingdom?

But that's not the point of contention the SP brought up in describing their apostasy. He merely noted that these members believed--like Snuffer the Apostate, mind you--that they could see God. Compare that to how he described everything else in the letter as the members' variances with Church doctrine. We can assume the best, but his own words tell a different story.

[inho]

I think the SP mentioned this only because for him it was clear that these people were deceived and if they received any second comforter experience, it must be a counterfeit. Later he tells that at least one of them had such experience. This means that things were pretty serious with them.

[AI2.0]

More interesting things from the letter which this Stake Pres. sent to church leaders.

And that tells you church leaders DO know about these things--at least someone at church headquarters is being apprised of some of these things;

"Holistic healing and Energy treatment seems to be the 'gateway' drug used to find recruits'

The group used full loaves of bread and wine for Sacrament; they were encouraged to eat their fill and this resulted in them getting drunk.

One woman was sealed to one of the men as a 'spiritual wife' but she said the marriage was not consummated.

The group believed in reincarnation and studied the book 'Eternal lives'. They believed Jesus, Joseph Smith, Moses etc. have all lived many lives. They believed they could identify their own past lives and taught their children this, telling them who they were in past lives. They believed that they were set apart in the pre existence to be able to identify past lives.

They believed that only a few 'elite' families would be saved from the destructions of the last days.

When talking to one of the women, it came out that they believe that Isaac really was sacrificed by Abraham, but that he was resurrected so that he could 'fill his role in history'.

There are 1st level, 2nd level and 3rd level ordinances. The first are LDS mainstream ordinances, the third level are only for the 'elite'.

They refer to themselves as The Church of The Firstborn and say that the millenium has already started for some people.

One woman had a list of people she was trying to convert. I assume from within her LDS circles.

They believe that Denver Snuffer is a 'John the Baptist' and that he will be one of the leaders of the church after the destruction at christ's coming. They believe that they will go to Grand Mesa Colorado after the coming of Christ, it is their 'Zion'.

Some other sources the group relies on;

They used Denver Snuffer's books "The Second Comforter' And 'Passing the Heavenly Gift', Denise Mendenhall's book of her NDE, "Visions of Glory", some 'foot zoner'; Ryan Rigby--his CD's and firesides.

Regarding one of these sources, there was this cryptic statement in the letter;

"A Book written by Denise Mendenhall (She explained in a meeting that [blank] attended that she had an affair with a man, she said she was commanded to do it, and it was done in the name of the Lord. [Blank] said that looking into her eyes was like looking into the eyes of Satan".

The LDS Holistic Conference is mentioned--it is held once a year and is a draw for LDS energy healers and new age types. ((I think it's the one that Julie Rowe spoke at in the past.))

[AI2.0]

Do I remember correctly that Snuffer says those who don't receive this in the flesh go to the telestial kingdom?

Not as far as I am aware.

You are right, he teaches that if we don't see Christ in the flesh, we fall short-- we go to the Terrestrial per his book, Passing the Heavenly Gift. However, at his Grand Junction lecture he said if we follow a church or man (which includes LDS prophets) we earn Telestial destruction, per his interpretation of D&C 7:98-105.

[AI2.0]

I think the SP mentioned this only because for him it was clear that these people were deceived and if they received any second comforter experience, it must be a counterfeit. Later he tells that at least one of them had such experience. This means that things were pretty serious with them.

From the letter:

'[Blank] also testified that she had received her second comforter. [Blank] said that she had a vision but it was an experience of darkness, not one of light. She believes that she saw the Adversary instead of the Savior'.

I'm sure he thought they were deceived and given all the things they were doing, I think they were deceived too. It certainly opened them up to evil spirits--as the second person believed.

Apparently during their 'sacrament' they drank enough wine to become 'inebriated' and the Stake Pres. felt this softened them up to some of what was being taught. I wonder if their drunken state helped to make them think they were having spiritual manifestations at their meetings too--at least for some, that's a possibility.

[stillwater]

Do I remember correctly that Snuffer says those who don't receive this in the flesh go to the telestial kingdom?

Not as far as I am aware.

You are right, he teaches that if we don't see Christ in the flesh, we fall short-- we go to the Terrestrial per his book, Passing the Heavenly Gift. However, at his Grand Junction lecture he said if we follow a church or man (which includes LDS prophets) we earn Telestial destruction, per his interpretation of D&C 7:98-105.

His exact position on that topic is ambiguous, if you are gauging by his published writings. http://denversnuffer.com/2016/04/why-a-temple/

Several things are clear from scripture:

-The Lord does want us in his presence as soon as we can bear it (hence his constant invitation)

-While such a visit happens in his own time and in his own way (per D&C 88), Joseph Smith said that was "as soon as they are able to bear it", and D&C 93 makes it clear that this does involve seeing his face

-The only things on which that visit depends are in our own power (our repentance, faithfulness, diligence in keeping His commandments, etc). God's portion of the work is guaranteed by him.

-Hence, if a person has not repented and exercised faith sufficient to enter God's presence by the time they leave this life it will either be

A. because they were not given sufficient instruction or time to act on it. In this case, if their heart is soft and prepared to receive the gospel they will do so (See D&C 137) and if it is not I suppose they won't.

or

B. because they WERE given a "cloud of witnesses", but hardened their hearts, failed to repent, and were not faithful or diligent. In that case, they will not be magically forced into a sinless condition against their will, and will not enjoy their brief stay in Christ's presence (see Alma 34:30-35)

It will not be because the person was obedient, soft hearted, diligent, and faithful, but God decided not to keep his promise to come comfort him or her.

Only God can judge which is the case and make eternal judgments, but the idea that not having met the Lord isn't an indicator of spiritual unreadiness or "falling short" seems to be clearly contradicted by scripture and by the teachings of Joseph Smith.

[AI2.0]

Joel shared this link to a mormon wiki leaks letter on a thread down in Outer Darkness, it is very revealing to some of the arguments we've had up here about the dangers of three things we often disagree on;

It's about apostasy in a stake--a letter from a Stake President describing how some of the members were falling into apostasy--what was driving it?

Energy Healing

Denver Snuffer

And NDE's (the one he mentioned was Denise Mendenhall)


https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/2 ... ostasy.pdf

I'd say that pretty much justifies our concerns about Energy healing--the letter says that it started with this and that people were actively recruiting others to join them in 'holistic' healing and from there, introduced them to Denver Snuffer's teaching on Second comforter etc and the apocalypse NDE's we so often read about here.

So you believe this is a witch trial? That's a pretty harsh accusation; did you really think that through before posting? Do you really believe that church leaders are unfairly going after these people to expose them? Please note from the letter that some of them came to the Bishop to confess. If you actually believe that the LDS church is the Lord's only true and living church on the earth, then there's absolutely no excuse for allowing dissident members to go about secretly trying to convert faithful members to this break off sect. To devout members of the LDS church, this is a tragedy which we should try to prevent more members becoming involved and falling away.

But I don't see anything of a 'witch trial' attitude from this stake president. He ends the letter with this:

"It is my recommendation that the Priesthood leaders who preside over [blank] and the [blank] be contacted and provided with this information. We have the testimony of three witnesses and need to try to reclaim these dear members. With regard to the repentance process of all these individuals, if they respond positively and forsake their promotion of these false teachings then we can probably help them through the repentance process using informal discipline. If they do not respond to the counsel of their leaders, we have little choice but to convene formal disciplinary councils in order to protect the innocent and safeguard the integrity of the church."

The words of a loving church leader who cares for the members of his congregation.

[Red]

Joel shared this link to a mormon wiki leaks letter on a thread down in Outer Darkness, it is very revealing to some of the arguments we've had up here about the dangers of three things we often disagree on;

It's about apostasy in a stake--a letter from a Stake President describing how some of the members were falling into apostasy--what was driving it?

Energy Healing

Denver Snuffer

And NDE's (the one he mentioned was Denise Mendenhall)


https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/2 ... ostasy.pdf

I'd say that pretty much justifies our concerns about Energy healing--the letter says that it started with this and that people were actively recruiting others to join them in 'holistic' healing and from there, introduced them to Denver Snuffer's teaching on Second comforter etc and the apocalypse NDE's we so often read about here.

So you believe this is a witch trial? That's a pretty harsh accusation; did you really think that through before posting? Do you really believe that church leaders are unfairly going after these people to expose them? Please note from the letter that some of them came to the Bishop to confess. If you actually believe that the LDS church is the Lord's only true and living church on the earth, then there's absolutely no excuse for allowing dissident members to go about secretly trying to convert faithful members to this break off sect. To devout members of the LDS church, this is a tragedy which we should try to prevent more members becoming involved and falling away.

But I don't see anything of a 'witch trial' attitude from this stake president. He ends the letter with this:

"It is my recommendation that the Priesthood leaders who preside over [blank] and the [blank] be contacted and provided with this information. We have the testimony of three witnesses and need to try to reclaim these dear members. With regard to the repentance process of all these individuals, if they respond positively and forsake their promotion of these false teachings then we can probably help them through the repentance process using informal discipline. If they do not respond to the counsel of their leaders, we have little choice but to convene formal disciplinary councils in order to protect the innocent and safeguard the integrity of the church."

The words of a loving church leader who cares for the members of his congregation.

Yes I do and were there witches present? Yes, in part. I don't agree with everything those members were doing. I do agree the lady in charge was on a power trip. I think them administering "sacrament" was wrong bc it was unnecessary (and weird). On the other side, I believe that we can receive the second comforter and I think that biases toward energy healing are sad because it is real. It's all a matter of how it is used. Anyone who says differently is ignorant of what real energy healing is. Energy healing is not the warped mumbo jumbo people think it is. And it wasn't what those people were doing either. The portion of the letter I was most perturbed by were the first six paragraphs. I've read a lot of Puritan witch accounts and they all sound just like that. There was absolutely no division in what was right and ok and what was bad. It was like some of the other posters said about it: the president said things that implied that the group practiced beliefs that are not doctrinal even tho some of those beliefs ARE doctrinal.

I was in a witch hunt. I was a witch. I was "cleared" though I knew I did nothing wrong and had no reason to be questioned. I was questioned because the church was acting on the same emotion the Purtians acted on: fear.

[AI2.0]

Do I remember correctly that Snuffer says those who don't receive this in the flesh go to the telestial kingdom?

Not as far as I am aware.

You are right, he teaches that if we don't see Christ in the flesh, we fall short-- we go to the Terrestrial per his book, Passing the Heavenly Gift. However, at his Grand Junction lecture he said if we follow a church or man (which includes LDS prophets) we earn Telestial destruction, per his interpretation of D&C 7:98-105.

His exact position on that topic is ambiguous, if you are gauging by his published writings. http://denversnuffer.com/2016/04/why-a-temple/

Several things are clear from scripture:

-The Lord does want us in his presence as soon as we can bear it (hence his constant invitation)

-While such a visit happens in his own time and in his own way (per D&C 88), Joseph Smith said that was "as soon as they are able to bear it", and D&C 93 makes it clear that this does involve seeing his face

-The only things on which that visit depends are in our own power (our repentance, faithfulness, diligence in keeping His commandments, etc). God's portion of the work is guaranteed by him.

-Hence, if a person has not repented and exercised faith sufficient to enter God's presence by the time they leave this life it will either be

A. because they were not given sufficient instruction or time to act on it. In this case, if their heart is soft and prepared to receive the gospel they will do so (See D&C 137) and if it is not I suppose they won't.

or

B. because they WERE given a "cloud of witnesses", but hardened their hearts, failed to repent, and were not faithful or diligent. In that case, they will not be magically forced into a sinless condition against their will, and will not enjoy their brief stay in Christ's presence (see Alma 34:30-35)

It will not be because the person was obedient, soft hearted, diligent, and faithful, but God decided not to keep his promise to come comfort him or her.

Only God can judge which is the case and make eternal judgments, but the idea that not having met the Lord isn't an indicator of spiritual unreadiness or "falling short" seems to be clearly contradicted by scripture and by the teachings of Joseph Smith.

The problem I see is that Denver Snuffer has created a religion around a new doctrine, which he promotes. That of the necessity of seeing Jesus Christ in the flesh, in order to receive a Celestial Glory. Is this something we can agree on? I haven't misinterpreted his teaching, I believe.

If so, here is the dilemna;

In a nutshell, the LDS church teaches that Baptism is the gate to the Celestial kingdom but Denver Snuffer has said this is false, that this physical manifestation of Jesus Christ, while we are in the flesh, is the gate to the Celestial kingdom. Regardless of Denver Snuffer's or your explanations of WHY he teaches this, the fact is, this is not something the LDS church teaches or preaches.

That was one of the false teachings he promoted and taught others and since his excommunication, he's doubled down on the false teachings he preaches and he reinterprets the LDS church's own scriptures to claim that he's correct. And now his followers have put out their own set of scriptures based on his teachings!

The LDS church believes and teaches the second comforter, but we do not teach that it is necessary to receive it in the flesh for Salvation in the Celestial Kingdom. And, as for D&C 93, once again, it is a matter of interpretation. I have no problem with D&C 93:1--it does not say we "MUST" see Christ's face or we won't be saved, it simply says we 'shall' see his face and know that he is--and you can bet that we all will see his face and know that he is--some in this life and some at the moment we pass through the veil.

[AI2.0]

Yes I do and were there witches present? Yes, in part. I don't agree with everything those members were doing. I do agree the lady in charge was on a power trip. I think them administering "sacrament" was wrong bc it was unnecessary (and weird). On the other side, I believe that we can receive the second comforter and I think that biases toward energy healing are sad because it is real. It's all a matter of how it is used. Anyone who says differently is ignorant of what real energy healing is. Energy healing is not the warped mumbo jumbo people think it is. And it wasn't what those people were doing either. The portion of the letter I was most perturbed by were the first six paragraphs. I've read a lot of Puritan witch accounts and they all sound just like that. There was absolutely no division in what was right and ok and what was bad. It was like some of the other posters said about it: the president said things that implied that the group practiced beliefs that are not doctrinal even tho some of those beliefs ARE doctrinal.

I was in a witch hunt. I was a witch. I was "cleared" though I knew I did nothing wrong and had no reason to be questioned. I was questioned because the church was acting on the same emotion the Purtians acted on: fear.

So, you believe the church is on a 'witch hunt' as they try to prevent members of the church from becoming involved with the Remnant movement? Because THAT is what this is all about. The Energy healing stuff is incidental, it's a concern because as he said, it's sort of a 'gateway drug'. Not all who get involved with Energy healing are also involved with the Remnant. We've been round and round on the Energy healing, the forum is split as some are heavily involved in it and will defend it to the death...

You say you were involved in something like this? Were you involved in a disciplinary council over your actions?

Are you a follower of Denver Snuffer and a member of his Remnant group?

[EmmaLee]

Interesting. Most members of AVOW believe in many of these things strongly, as well - so it isn't just Snuffer disciples or even the various "Remnant" groups. Most on AVOW live and breathe for many of these topics, as long as you don't mention Snuffer. Also, several of these beliefs come from the LDS Church - only I guess they're false if coming from the Church, but true if coming from Snuffer (or his pal, Doug Mendenhall, Denise's father and Snuffer's self-proclaimed right-hand-man). It's also interesting that many on AVOW have nothing but love, respect, and trust for Mendenhall, but loathe Snuffer - apparently they don't realize Doug is 100% behind Snuffer (which makes me wonder, has Doug been ex'd yet? If not, why not? Because he does at least as much preaching as Snuffer).

It's a shame the stake president lumped holistic healing in with what he calls "energy treatments" - as they are not the same, and people would be wise to look at their health in a holistic manner, IMO. Or more likely, he doesn't really know what he's talking about in either case.

It's also unfortunate that he didn't mention possession of evil spirits - or does the LDS Church not believe the earth is teeming with them anymore, and that they do, most certainly, possess people's bodies? I know in our local ward, it is preached semi-frequently that there is no such thing as evil spirits or possession (mainly by the seminary teachers). One short step away from preaching there is no devil.

Not surprised at all to hear there are "sealings" and affairs going on - that is always what happens with these groups sooner or later.

Very glad he included "Visions of Glory" in with the other books and things that were studied by these people and various groups, and contributed to them going off the deep-end.

"Holistic healing and Energy treatment seems to be the 'gateway' drug used to find recruits'

The group used full loaves of bread and wine for Sacrament; they were encouraged to eat their fill and this resulted in them getting drunk.

One woman was sealed to one of the men as a 'spiritual wife' but she said the marriage was not consummated.

The group believed in reincarnation and studied the book 'Eternal lives'. They believed Jesus, Joseph Smith, Moses etc. have all lived many lives. They believed they could identify their own past lives and taught their children this, telling them who they were in past lives. They believed that they were set apart in the pre existence to be able to identify past lives.

They believed that only a few 'elite' families would be saved from the destructions of the last days.

When talking to one of the women, it came out that they believe that Isaac really was sacrificed by Abraham, but that he was resurrected so that he could 'fill his role in history'.

There are 1st level, 2nd level and 3rd level ordinances. The first are LDS mainstream ordinances, the third level are only for the 'elite'.

They refer to themselves as The Church of The Firstborn and say that the millenium has already started for some people.

One woman had a list of people she was trying to convert. I assume from within her LDS circles.

They believe that Denver Snuffer is a 'John the Baptist' and that he will be one of the leaders of the church after the destruction at christ's coming. They believe that they will go to Grand Mesa Colorado after the coming of Christ, it is their 'Zion'.

Some other sources the group relies on;

They used Denver Snuffer's books "The Second Comforter' And 'Passing the Heavenly Gift', Denise Mendenhall's book of her NDE, "Visions of Glory", some 'foot zoner'; Ryan Rigby--his CD's and firesides.

Regarding one of these sources, there was this cryptic statement in the letter;

"A Book written by Denise Mendenhall (She explained in a meeting that [blank] attended that she had an affair with a man, she said she was commanded to do it, and it was done in the name of the Lord. [Blank] said that looking into her eyes was like looking into the eyes of Satan".

The LDS Holistic Conference is mentioned--it is held once a year and is a draw for LDS energy healers and new age types. ((I think it's the one that Julie Rowe spoke at in the past.))

[Red]

I think the church is on a witch hunt for anything they don't like. Not just these "remnant" people. I know almost nothing about the remnant group. I have heard Denver Snuffer's name and I can say honestly I know little else than he's creating a disturbance in the church. I have no idea what he believes in. I haven't read his literature. My beliefs come from scripture, personal revelation, and watching what happens in the stake around me.

I was involved in a group of individuals who were discussing atonement and grace in ONE meeting. There were other things talked about, and while some of it wasn't something spoken of in church, none of it was against church doctrine. There was an individual in this meeting who had a vendetta against the church and that person's family had a relative in the quorum of the 70. This person told the family member that we had a meeting about the atonement and grace and from there, three of us were called in to be confronted on it. The church thought we were beginning to apostasize. Apparently, you're not allowed to meet together to talk about the gospel. Who knew? I can see why I was called in, I preach the gospel, not the church opinions and rules. I'm not the church's poster child. I was fortunate though, my bishop is enlightened and he knew that I was being chased down for no good reason. But I've never led anyone astray. I attend regularly. I stress grace. I encourage people to think for themselves and outside the box. Believing something the church doesn't think is doctrine doesn't make it untrue, but you still get in trouble for it.

Calling people into discipline councils won't work for long with the church (these people will argue their agency is affected). They will lose more people than they'll keep. The members want to be loved and they want their questions answered. People don't want to be loved on condition that they fit a mold. I'm not talking about extremes either. Obviously, that crazy lady was a problem. I can understand that concern, but some of the other stuff is over-generalized suffocation. Im probably just being picky about how the president said it. Like I said, the first six paragraphs sound like puritans.

[Mcox]

This is very interesting. Energy healing almost always goes extreme. It starts out as simple foot zoning and turns into all sorts of crazy practices. It is definitely not of God. If you are muscle testing you are inviting spirits. Interesting that Ryan Higby was mentioned. I am acquainted with him. He claims to be able to go out into his backyard,to a certain spot. And there he can see and communicate with spirits from other realms. He started as a foot zoner and is now a bonified wing nut.
I'm glad that visions of glory was mentioned, because I feel this is a gateway drug to many of these unorthodox beliefs and practices too. As far as the second comforter is concerned, this is by invitation only. You cannot recieve this temple ordinance without being invited by a general authority. It is only performed in an lds temple. These people believe they have seen the Savior and therefore they think they have received the second comforter. First of all, I don't believe for one minute they saw the Savior. It was most likely a spirit who called himself Christ, or just made up all together. Many are being deceived. Stay with the old ship Zion!

[EmmaLee]

As far as the second comforter is concerned, this is by invitation only. You cannot recieve this temple ordinance without being invited by a general authority. It is only performed in an lds temple. These people believe they have seen the Savior and therefore they think they have received the second comforter.

Receiving the 2nd comforter, and the ordinance of the 2nd anointing, are two different things.

2nd anointing - http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... _anointing

2nd comforter - https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/07/acce ... e?lang=eng