Energy Healing/Denver Snuffer/NDE and apostasy within the church

[AI2.0]

Some energy healers claim that energy healing is science. Quantum physics. It is a pseudo science at best. There is no scientific studies that prove anything more then placebo. Energy healers clear emotions for you, healing your soul, or your spirit. They use paranormal abilities. And the "universe". Thereby displacing the godhead in your life. Medicine heals the physical, they do not claim to heal your soul or spirit. Medicine can be scientifically proven. Medicine does not rely on the paranormal for healing. There is no comparison of the two.
“Be not led by any spirit or influence that discredits established authority, contradicts true scientific principles and discoveries, or leads away from the direct revelations of God for the government of the Church. The Holy Ghost does not contradict its own revealings. Truth is always harmonious with itself. Piety is often the cloak of error. The counsels of the Lord through the channel he has appointed will be followed with safety. Therefore, O! ye Latter-day Saints, profit by these words of warning.” (In Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, 4:285–86.)

I would read this whole section!

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and ... n?lang=eng

Very good points and yes, there's no comparison between the the practice of medical science, where a person goes to years of medical school, is trained to understand the body and it's systems and to treat with surgeries, medications, etc. Energy healing is new age and it's results are varied, I would say 'sketchy'. It's not widely practiced. As someone pointed out, not all Energy healers claim to heal through god's power--but those who study Emotion Code (a lot of LDS practitioners) do claim God's power. I think it's likely that religious practitioners, from whatever faith, claim it is God's power they are tapping into.

For those who don't have knowledge and a testimony of the Gospel, I can understand completely their turning to something like Energy healing, if they don't find relief from doctors. They don't have the Holy Spirit to guide them, they don't understand the mind of God or the things of an eternal nature. They don't understand the purpose of this life and why they are here and what they should be doing. But the thought came to me that what's really disconcerting about Energy Healing among LDS is that they ought to be turning to the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood for healing, not these new age practices. I wonder if it is frustration, even impatience and doubt in one's own ability to tap into faith that draws some to turn to Energy healing. It could be unconscious resentment that Heavenly Father has not answered prayers of the individual desired. I suspect that many members who end up using Energy healing probably first did pray and ask for priesthood blessings but when they received no relief or not sufficient relief, they turned to Energy healing. I think for some LDS, using Energy healing can be a form of 'rebellion' against Heavenly Father, against doing the hard work of spiritual growth, exercising faith and even being willing to the submit to the will of God that we patiently 'wait upon the Lord' for healing. I'm not saying in all cases, because everyone is different, but I suspect that this is true for some.

As I see it, Energy healing competes with Priesthood power and healing by Faith. When used by LDS members, even those who think it's drawing on the powers of heaven, it's still obviously a replacement or in competition with Priesthood and healing by Faith.

I think we all struggle with 'rebellion' against God at times. When things get tough, when we face trials and struggles or our life does not turn out as we'd hoped. When we suffer with various problems, it's easy to consciously or unconsciously strike out at God by 'acting out', doing things that we know we should not, and doing things that are even damaging or we know are not good for us. There's a destructive and reckless nature that goes along with our natural man impulses for pleasure and comfort, to achieve it at whatever cost to ourselves or others, even those we love. I suspect that there is something compelling in the practice of energy healing that entices members of the church to turn to it and even pay for the service--also something compelling that makes people have such strong feelings in defending it's use.

I think that Heavenly Father wants us to submit to his will and be healed by him, in his time, in his way. I don't think Energy healing is just another form of medicine because as others have pointed out, it does seem to stir up evil spirits and possessions. And most unfortunately, we've heard of examples where relying on the practice does damage or diminish testimony and take some members out of the church.

[AI2.0]

Among the Latter-day Saints, the preaching of false doctrines disguised as truths of the Gospel, may be expected from people…With such forces at work in the Church, one must learn to combat these workings of Satan. Elder Marion G. Romney listed the following guidelines:

“Anything purporting to pertain to the Gospel of Jesus Christ may be put to the following four simple tests:

“1. Does it purport to originate in the wisdom of men, or was it revealed from heaven? If it originated in the wisdom of men, it is not of God. …

“2. Does the teaching bear the proper label? … If any teaching purporting to be from Christ comes under any label other than that of Jesus Christ, we can know it is not of God. …

“3. … The teaching must not only come under the proper label, but it must also conform to the other teaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

“4. … Does it come through the proper Church channel?” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1960, pp. 76–77.)

LDS Energy healers claim that their work is a development of spiritual gifts. They believe energy work is from God. If the Prophet and the twelve are not teaching energy healing and if the scriptures are not teaching energy healing, I know that it is not of God. It originated with the wisdom of men and did not come through the proper channel.

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and ... n?lang=eng

If a Western doctor had the gift of healing in his patriarchal blessing, would that meet any of the criteria above? No, right? So what does that say? :-w and :-w and :-w for years on these questions that NO ONE on the anti-EH side seems to be capable or willing to answer. :-ss

Having the gift of healing would have nothing to do with a licensed Doctor's training and profession. He still has to go to school like everyone else. Now, if he used this to advertise for patients, that would be wrong, IMO. Someone who has this gift does not mean they should go around offering blessings. There is still the fact of the faith of the patient and the will of God to be considered.

Energy healers are not licensed medical practitioners. They pay to take a course which teaches them techniques. They are more like 'mystics' in the way they pass on their knowledge of things that are unseen to others to learn their craft. It wouldn't be a problem that they charge money for their services, except that some claim they are using God's power. And it's debatable what power they are actually drawing from, IF they are actually drawing on any power at all and it isn't just a placebo.

[mirkwood]

Our sons patriarchal blessing states he has the gift of healing, Isaiah 13:7 states In that day shall be swear, saying: I will not be a healer; for in my house there is neither bread nor clothing; make me not a ruler of the people. We have always interpreted that as healing through the powers of the Priesthood which as things progress and people gain more faith in Christ, the faith in priesthood blessings will expand .

Mine says the same...and it ain't from energy healing, it comes from the Priesthood.

[JohnnyL]

Our sons patriarchal blessing states he has the gift of healing, Isaiah 13:7 states In that day shall be swear, saying: I will not be a healer; for in my house there is neither bread nor clothing; make me not a ruler of the people. We have always interpreted that as healing through the powers of the Priesthood which as things progress and people gain more faith in Christ, the faith in priesthood blessings will expand .

Take a look in Moroni 10: "giftS of healing". It's a basic assumption many have--priesthood, or a doctor. Expand your mind...

[JohnnyL]

Some energy healers claim that energy healing is science. Quantum physics. It is a pseudo science at best. There is no scientific studies that prove anything more then placebo. Energy healers clear emotions for you, healing your soul, or your spirit. They use paranormal abilities. And the "universe". Thereby displacing the godhead in your life. Medicine heals the physical, they do not claim to heal your soul or spirit. Medicine can be scientifically proven. Medicine does not rely on the paranormal for healing. There is no comparison of the two.

[some irrelevant church/ gospel quote provided by Mcox]

I would read this whole section!
[blah blah and yet the 100th irrelevant church/ gospel quote by Mcox, unless you have created your own little anti-EH world]

Someone sure has a lot to learn about healing! Plenty of studies, and plenty of people "been there, done that", so easy to see.
Some people won't even drink if you submerse their head underwater...

[Juliet]

We are asked to use our faith to heal people in the temple, specifically our faith, not the priesthood. The priesthood gives us the authorization to act in God's behalf. Anyone can heal by faith, and if miracles don't happen by faith, then we are a wicked and unbelieving generation. If we look at someone who uses faith to heal, and call them evil, then we are very naive as to what real evil is actually out there.

[butterfly]

Satan does not heal people. Just like God's power cannot be used for evil, Satan's power cannot be used for good. Jesus was accused by his church leaders for not following God's dictated method of healing. These same church leaders said that the only reason Jesus was having success with healing was because He got His power from the devil. Here's what happened:


22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Later, the apostles made the same mistake that the church leaders had made. The apostles were thinking: "We have the real priesthood. Jesus Himself has ordained us and given us the power to heal. Anyone who heals without being part of our group is wrong." Here are the verses:

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

If an energy healer or a native american medicine man or some obscure tribe's shaman or a baptist minister ask for healing power, and they attribute it to goodness, then it is of God.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

[Mcox]

Satan does not heal people. Just like God's power cannot be used for evil, Satan's power cannot be used for good. Jesus was accused by his church leaders for not following God's dictated method of healing. These same church leaders said that the only reason Jesus was having success with healing was because He got His power from the devil. Here's what happened:


22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Later, the apostles made the same mistake that the church leaders had made. The apostles were thinking: "We have the real priesthood. Jesus Himself has ordained us and given us the power to heal. Anyone who heals without being part of our group is wrong." Here are the verses:

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

If an energy healer or a native american medicine man or some obscure tribe's shaman or a baptist minister ask for healing power, and they attribute it to goodness, then it is of God.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

“Satan has shown himself to be an accomplished strategist and a skillful imitator; the most deplorable of his victories are due to his simulation of good, whereby the undiscerning have been led captive. Let no one be deluded with the thought that any act, the immediate result of which appears to be benign, is necessarily productive of permanent good. It may serve the dark purposes of Satan to play upon the human sense of goodness, even to the extent of healing the body and apparently of thwarting death.” (“We Believe: Doctrines and Principles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints“, Elder James E. Talmage)

[Finrock]

We are asked to use our faith to heal people in the temple, specifically our faith, not the priesthood. The priesthood gives us the authorization to act in God's behalf. Anyone can heal by faith, and if miracles don't happen by faith, then we are a wicked and unbelieving generation. If we look at someone who uses faith to heal, and call them evil, then we are very naive as to what real evil is actually out there.

These are some observations and thoughts that I posted some time ago. I'm quoting myself below because I think its relevant to what you are saying and an important distinction to make with regards to what is priesthood, etc.

The priesthood is just the power of God to bless and serve others. Faith is a principle of power. By faith in Jesus Christ we access God's power. Authority comes by virtue. By virtue we gain confidence, which increases our faith, which increases our access to God's power.

Joseph Smith speaks about the rights of the priesthood. That is what is conferred upon us when someone lays their hands upon our heads, but this gives us no power or even any priesthood, just the right of the priesthood. However, the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven and the powers of heaven can ONLY be controlled upon principles of righteousness.

No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile

The priesthood is just God's power to bless others. We gain access to this power by exercising faith in Jesus Christ. Our virtue authorizes us to act and increases our power to act, because God is in each of us. When we exercise our power to bless others, this is priesthood.

-Finrock

And another post with some additional insights:

Some thoughts:

Priesthood is simply the power to bless others. Or, put another way, it is God's power to bless others.

We gain access to God's power by virtue of faith and righteousness or by virtue of righteousness and faith.

If something is done by the power of the Spirit, it is done by the power of God, which is priesthood power. Spirit, God's power, and priesthood then are the same.

If you have the Spirit, you have the priesthood, or God's power.

God's power is governed and controlled by God.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also has a priesthood, or power. It is the Church's power. The Church's power is governed by the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This priesthood is concerned with all the outward ordinances such as baptism, temple ordinances, sacrament, etc. It can be conferred upon another by men and once given by men, people can act in that capacity of the priesthood without God's approval. For instance, an Elder's Quorum President who is committing adultery can be given the priesthood governed by the Church and can then act in the capacity of an Elder's Quorum president in the Church, but they will not have been given or have received God's power, or His priesthood, for the very simply reason because God's priesthood, or God's power, can only be obtained, controlled, or governed by righteousness and faith.

-Finrock

-Finrock

[JohnnyL]

Satan does not heal people. Just like God's power cannot be used for evil, Satan's power cannot be used for good. Jesus was accused by his church leaders for not following God's dictated method of healing. These same church leaders said that the only reason Jesus was having success with healing was because He got His power from the devil. Here's what happened:


22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Later, the apostles made the same mistake that the church leaders had made. The apostles were thinking: "We have the real priesthood. Jesus Himself has ordained us and given us the power to heal. Anyone who heals without being part of our group is wrong." Here are the verses:

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

If an energy healer or a native american medicine man or some obscure tribe's shaman or a baptist minister ask for healing power, and they attribute it to goodness, then it is of God.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

“Satan has shown himself to be an accomplished strategist and a skillful imitator; the most deplorable of his victories are due to his simulation of good, whereby the undiscerning have been led captive. Let no one be deluded with the thought that any act, the immediate result of which appears to be benign, is necessarily productive of permanent good. It may serve the dark purposes of Satan to play upon the human sense of goodness, even to the extent of healing the body and apparently of thwarting death.” (“We Believe: Doctrines and Principles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints“, Elder James E. Talmage)

It's a good thing Elder Talmage wasn't among the Jews to tell Jesus that He was wrong. Or some forum members. B-)

[butterfly]

Satan does not heal people. Just like God's power cannot be used for evil, Satan's power cannot be used for good. Jesus was accused by his church leaders for not following God's dictated method of healing. These same church leaders said that the only reason Jesus was having success with healing was because He got His power from the devil. Here's what happened:


22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Later, the apostles made the same mistake that the church leaders had made. The apostles were thinking: "We have the real priesthood. Jesus Himself has ordained us and given us the power to heal. Anyone who heals without being part of our group is wrong." Here are the verses:

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

If an energy healer or a native american medicine man or some obscure tribe's shaman or a baptist minister ask for healing power, and they attribute it to goodness, then it is of God.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

“Satan has shown himself to be an accomplished strategist and a skillful imitator; the most deplorable of his victories are due to his simulation of good, whereby the undiscerning have been led captive. Let no one be deluded with the thought that any act, the immediate result of which appears to be benign, is necessarily productive of permanent good. It may serve the dark purposes of Satan to play upon the human sense of goodness, even to the extent of healing the body and apparently of thwarting death.” (“We Believe: Doctrines and Principles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints“, Elder James E. Talmage)

I'm trying to pinpoint where you and I differ in our understanding of healing. Do you mind answering a few questions?
1) Do you believe that only those with LDS- ordained priesthood are able to heal?
2) From the Talmadge quote, do you believe Satan can genuinely heal someone or just that he can try to but it won't really work (the next day the healed blind man will be blind again, for example)
3) Have you personally experienced officiating in a miraculous healing or being healed yourself? If so, what specifically let you know it was from God and not from Satan?
Thanks, I think I'll be able to understand your perspective better from your responses.

[Mcox]

This is how I'll answer you butterfly, Johnny, Juliet and anyone else who is into energy healer. I don't need to pay someone to clear my negative emotions when I have the ability to do this for myself and with the Savior. I have prayer, faith, repentance, the sacrament, temple covenants, Priesthood and more. Why do You need anything else? Certainly no one needs healing from someone who has been to a few seminars, and now has self proclaimed "special abilities". Not to mention the methods used, Muscle testing and various clearing technics. All of it not necessary, and I claim from experience, even harmful spiritually and emotionally.

[Finrock]

This is how I'll answer you butterfly, Johnny, Juliet and anyone else who is into energy healer. I don't need to pay someone to clear my negative emotions when I have the ability to do this for myself and with the Savior. I have prayer, faith, repentance, the sacrament, temple covenants, Priesthood and more. Why do You need anything else? Certainly no one needs healing from someone who has been to a few seminars, and now has self proclaimed "special abilities". Not to mention the methods used, Muscle testing and various clearing technics. All of it not necessary, and I claim from experience, even harmful spiritually and emotionally.

What if money wasn't a factor? Meaning, what if the scenario had nothing to do with paying someone and nothing to do with someone who has taken seminars either a few or many?

What experiences have you had personally which have shown you that the things you describe are harmful spiritually and emotionally?

And, butterfly asked some relevant questions like how do you distinguish between a healing that comes from God or from Satan? Are you saying this from experience? Meaning, have you ever been healed by Satan and have you ever been healed by God and if so, how did you tell the difference or what was the difference?

Please try to view this as someone who is asking so that they won't be lead astray. Vague answers and/or platitudes would not be helpful at all.I would like to hear your personal experiences and first hand knowledge. Please avoid second hand or third hand accounts or your guesses and assumptions.

Thank you!

-Finrock

[Thinker]

I don't need to pay someone to clear my negative emotions when I have the ability to do this for myself and with the Savior. I have prayer, faith, repentance, the sacrament, temple covenants, Priesthood and more. Why do You need anything else?

First off, I agree that paying for energy healing is essentially priestcraft, but also consider that money is often involved in considering someone's worthiness in some churches.

Also, consider that the sacrament and oridinances in the temple are SYMBOLS - they are not the actual thing they represent. They represent things, they're divination tools, not that different from other divination tools - like Bibliomancy (foretelling the future or seeking spiritual guidance by interpreting a randomly chosen passage from a book, especially the Bible).

Some things I think many people do ONLY because it's tradition and everyone around them is doing it. But is that really of God? Is the test of if something is of God is that everyone is doing it? I don't think so, not according to Jesus who said that "narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." I think it's so narrow because so many people seek to worship others - authority figures or their peer approval over God. If we're honest, most of us have this tendency - I guess it is human tendency which is why the 1st of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt have no other gods before God."

One year, my new year's resolution was to study healing arts. I sought truth wherever it's found (as Joseph Smith suggested). I wanted to understand how they work - and after some research, concluded that most of them work by faith - placebo effect specifically - all except some forms of Chinese medicine (like acupuncture). Does this mean that anything that inspires the placebo effect is evil? Of course not - just that it's important to distinguish between tools/symbols and that which actually influences (belief/faith). Belief is powerful - that is scientifically and spiritually proven over & over throughout history. I guess the question to ask is - which of all tools are best? Is a hammer better than a wrench? Doesn't it depend on what you need it for?

Just some thoughts. I don't pretend to have it all figured out.

[JohnnyL]

Priestcraft. I think that word means something different than what many here think it means. I have no problems with paying anyone for it, nor getting paid for it. Why?

[JohnnyL]

This is how I'll answer you butterfly, Johnny, Juliet and anyone else who is into energy healer. I don't need to pay someone to clear my negative emotions when I have the ability to do this for myself and with the Savior. I have prayer, faith, repentance, the sacrament, temple covenants, Priesthood and more. Why do You need anything else? Certainly no one needs healing from someone who has been to a few seminars, and now has self proclaimed "special abilities". Not to mention the methods used, Muscle testing and various clearing technics. All of it not necessary, and I claim from experience, even harmful spiritually and emotionally.

Right, which is why you feel the same way about psychologists, counselors, psychiatrists, doctors, etc. Having "prayer, faith, repentance, the sacrament, temple covenants, Priesthood and more"--"Why do You need anything else"? Right? Lol. @-)

[AI2.0]

We are asked to use our faith to heal people in the temple, specifically our faith, not the priesthood. The priesthood gives us the authorization to act in God's behalf. Anyone can heal by faith, and if miracles don't happen by faith, then we are a wicked and unbelieving generation. If we look at someone who uses faith to heal, and call them evil, then we are very naive as to what real evil is actually out there.

But, if they claim to use their faith to heal, then why are they charging $25.00 for a half hour session over the phone? They cannot or should not be claiming to use their 'faith' to heal when they are charging money for it. I think all believers understand that this WOULD be considered evil and improper use of one's faith.

When we are asked to use our combined faith in the temple, we don't charge money to do so. There's no comparison between an Energy healing session with an Energy Coach and exercising faith through our prayers for others.

Faith is one of the Gifts of God. We pray for miracles but we don't always recognize them. If a person is not healed, it is not simply because they lack faith or are wicked. Sometimes it is God's will that a person not be healed, at that time, or in the way we desire. If we are in tune with the spirit and submissive to God's will, hopefully we can come to understand God's will and timing.

Priesthood is the authority to act in God's name.

Priesthood holders are charged to give blessings and act in God's name in calling down powers from heaven, through faith. And of course, they do not charge money for their service.

And as for those rare energy healers who do it for free...

It becomes a matter of who you put your trust in;

If I'm a believing, active member of the LDS church and I have access to Priesthood blessings, why would I not choose that and instead go to an Energy healer? It seems like an odd choice for LDS to reject Priesthood blessings in favor of the claims of a new Age belief system...

[AI2.0]

Satan does not heal people. Just like God's power cannot be used for evil, Satan's power cannot be used for good. Jesus was accused by his church leaders for not following God's dictated method of healing. These same church leaders said that the only reason Jesus was having success with healing was because He got His power from the devil. Here's what happened:


22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Later, the apostles made the same mistake that the church leaders had made. The apostles were thinking: "We have the real priesthood. Jesus Himself has ordained us and given us the power to heal. Anyone who heals without being part of our group is wrong." Here are the verses:

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

If an energy healer or a native american medicine man or some obscure tribe's shaman or a baptist minister ask for healing power, and they attribute it to goodness, then it is of God.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

If you think Satan cannot imitate and give 'gifts' that people think are good, you could easily be deceived by him. Don't be fooled by him, there are many people who love and serve Satan because he's gives them things that they consider very much to be 'good' and 'desirable' and very coveted by the world's standards.

If Satan's 'gifts' were clearly evil, do you really think anyone would be fooled by him? Do you think anyone would even WANT them?? Of course not. They are often disguised as 'good' gifts to make them enticing. If you think about it more in depth, I think you can see this is true.

The Pharisees were wrong in thinking that Jesus' power came from Satan, but they weren't wrong in knowing that Satan has power and that the wicked can and do tap into that power.

As I pointed out earlier, we see this clearly taught in the bible. Moses performed miracles using the power of God. Pharoah's court magicians performed those same 'miracles' using the power of Satan(though I doubt they were aware of where they were getting their power). The Pharisees were not ignorant in making that accusation against Christ, they were just wrong in making it about him, because they wanted to deny that he was the Messiah--they clearly admitted he had power, but they refused to recognize it was God's power.

And FYI, Jesus didn't charge money to heal.

In regards to this scripture: " But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God."

Do you think that 'good' is what is enticing some Energy healers to charge money for using their 'gifts' and their faith to heal? Do you think that is an appropriate way to use the gifts of god? The scriptures say that the gifts of God are to be used to bless others only and to give all glory to God. I don't think making a career and a business of taking sick people's money with the claim that the 'healer' is going to use God's power to heal them is 'good'. I can't imagine that the spirit would entice anyone to do that.

Using someone's gifts to make money or to bring honor and glory to themselves; I think we are warned about, when we are warned to 'touch not the evil gift or the unclean thing''...

[Yahtzee]

What the hey, I'll jump in.
I grew up on alternative medicine. Energy work was part of that and I was originally introduced to it in California from non LDS practitioners.
When I moved to Utah and met LDS people who practiced it I thought, "Finally, energy work people who weren't going to be kooks!" And some of them were pretty normal. But they always seemed to get sucked into other things and turn kooky. Most, but not all I knew, have ended up leaving the church. I took classes and got trained in a few techniques and I don't see it as inherently evil or good, but I agree, it does seem to be a gateway thing. HOWEVER, so is gardening. I'm in all these gardening groups and so many people are leaving the church! They start going all pagan. So I see this as a symptom of a bigger problem of LDS having itching ears or thinking they've found a hidden truth.

FWIW, ultimately I realized I'd never had any tangible benefits from energy work. I do believe now that it was all placebo. It did help me psychologically, but not any more than a really good therapist I had a while back.

[JohnnyL]

We are asked to use our faith to heal people in the temple, specifically our faith, not the priesthood. The priesthood gives us the authorization to act in God's behalf. Anyone can heal by faith, and if miracles don't happen by faith, then we are a wicked and unbelieving generation. If we look at someone who uses faith to heal, and call them evil, then we are very naive as to what real evil is actually out there.

But, if they claim to use their faith to heal, then why are they charging $25.00 for a half hour session over the phone? They cannot or should not be claiming to use their 'faith' to heal when they are charging money for it. I think all believers understand that this WOULD be considered evil and improper use of one's faith.
Out of the plethora of people doing it, can you point out those who claim "to use their faith to heal?"
$25 is cheap! Someone's getting a deal...

When we are asked to use our combined faith in the temple, we don't charge money to do so. There's no comparison between an Energy healing session with an Energy Coach and exercising faith through our prayers for others.
So if there's no comparison, why do you keep comparing?

Faith is one of the Gifts of God. We pray for miracles but we don't always recognize them. If a person is not healed, it is not simply because they lack faith or are wicked. Sometimes it is God's will that a person not be healed, at that time, or in the way we desire. If we are in tune with the spirit and submissive to God's will, hopefully we can come to understand God's will and timing.
True. And?

Priesthood is the authority to act in God's name.
True. And?

Priesthood holders are charged to give blessings and act in God's name in calling down powers from heaven, through faith. And of course, they do not charge money for their service.
True. And?

And as for those rare energy healers who do it for free...

It becomes a matter of who you put your trust in;

If I'm a believing, active member of the LDS church and I have access to Priesthood blessings, why would I not choose that and instead go to an Energy healer? It seems like an odd choice for LDS to reject Priesthood blessings in favor of the claims of a new Age belief system...

PLEASE, show me you are SANE and CONGRUENT by telling me you also do not use anything or anyone else, other than the priesthood, to heal.

Go ahead and say: "I have access to the priesthood--why would I go to a doctor, psychologist, dentist, or any other healer?" If you can't repeat that sentence and mean it anymore than "I have access to Priesthood blessings, why would I not choose that and instead go to an Energy healer?", then this shows incredible lack of understanding, lack of a sound mind, or hypocrisy.

And I'm missing why EH means one "rejects Priesthood blessings in favor of the claims of a new Age belief system"--can you show it? Why do you believe the two are mutually exclusive?

How about a Chinese belief system? Indian? hundreds of other indigenous "belief systems"? Are you against new knowledge and wisdom? Oh, as long as it is Western and "scientific", it's ok, right? Talk about racism!!!

[JohnnyL]

Satan does not heal people. Just like God's power cannot be used for evil, Satan's power cannot be used for good. Jesus was accused by his church leaders for not following God's dictated method of healing. These same church leaders said that the only reason Jesus was having success with healing was because He got His power from the devil. Here's what happened:
22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Later, the apostles made the same mistake that the church leaders had made. The apostles were thinking: "We have the real priesthood. Jesus Himself has ordained us and given us the power to heal. Anyone who heals without being part of our group is wrong." Here are the verses:
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
If an energy healer or a native american medicine man or some obscure tribe's shaman or a baptist minister ask for healing power, and they attribute it to goodness, then it is of God.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

If you think Satan cannot imitate and give 'gifts' that people think are good, you could easily be deceived by him. Don't be fooled by him, there are many people who love and serve Satan because he's gives them things that they consider very much to be 'good' and 'desirable' and very coveted by the world's standards.

If Satan's 'gifts' were clearly evil, do you really think anyone would be fooled by him? Do you think anyone would even WANT them?? Of course not. They are often disguised as 'good' gifts to make them enticing. If you think about it more in depth, I think you can see this is true.

The Pharisees were wrong in thinking that Jesus' power came from Satan, but they weren't wrong in knowing that Satan has power and that the wicked can and do tap into that power.

As I pointed out earlier, we see this clearly taught in the bible. Moses performed miracles using the power of God. Pharoah's court magicians performed those same 'miracles' using the power of Satan(though I doubt they were aware of where they were getting their power). The Pharisees were not ignorant in making that accusation against Christ, they were just wrong in making it about him, because they wanted to deny that he was the Messiah--they clearly admitted he had power, but they refused to recognize it was God's power.

Lol, you have completely not made any point here. Show that Satan heals, does good, etc.--claiming that Satan has power (duh), and showing he uses it for good, is not the same. If you want that, you should go to Simon, though that also is questionable, but at least better. ;)

Hmmm.... Looks like we are again stuck on this, eh? Show/ Prove it was the power of Satan against Moses. You didn't last time, and you can't this time. That's what some people believe, but it's not in there, is it? Can you prove that JS was wrong when he said there are three spirits (God, Satan, man), not just the two that are often talked about (God, Satan)?

And FYI, Jesus didn't charge money to heal.
Tell that to your LDS doctor next time.
He also didn't charge money for talking to people, either. Point that out to anyone who uses speaking as a means to make money, too.

In regards to this scripture: " But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God."

Do you think that 'good' is what is enticing some Energy healers to charge money for using their 'gifts' and their faith to heal?
Does your husband get money for work? dad? brothers? bishop? Do they, I assume, work in areas where they have no talents, or in jobs that anyone off the street could do? Do they use their gifts and faith to work? Hmm... What is that about faith and works? Doesn't about anyone who works, have faith?

Do you think that is an appropriate way to use the gifts of god?
So you are saying EH is a gift from God? #:-s =))

The scriptures say that the gifts of God are to be used to bless others only and to give all glory to God. I don't think making a career and a business of taking sick people's money with the claim that the 'healer' is going to use God's power to heal them is 'good'. I can't imagine that the spirit would entice anyone to do that.
So you are only against those who claim to use the power of God to heal others, and charge for it? I'm glad that finally came out!
...

[Teancum]

Here is another thought that fought its way to the forefront of my mind.

God has charged his servants to not "advertise" their Priesthood healings, or spiritual gifts. When one "advertises" their abilities, they are seeking attention, or customers (money), or accolades of the world. Either way, their method is contrary to God's revealed way. They are not doing it to honor God, and give Him glory or build up His kingdom, but to take it to themselves. If its not done by God's way then it is by some other way, and not of God. If it is not of God, then that leaves but one other source. That is why priestcrafts are so bad that cities were leveled and they crucified their God because of priestcrafts. How much more wicked can one get?

When I shot a nail into my eye this last december, I had many promptings if heeded would have prevented that from happening. But I rationalized away those promptings thinking that I was doing good and doing a service, and therefore didn't need to heed those promptings. Also I gave in to peer pressure. When I was taken to the E.R. I was praying unto God the Father through His Son, Jesus, that if it were his will, that I might be healed, but I recognized and admited that I was not very worthy of it. After this praying, two of my former bishops (one having overheard my prayers while taking me by truck to the E.R.) asked if I would like a blessing, to which I said yes. I attribute my healing to THAT blessing and to answers to sincire pleadings with my Father In Heaven. Yes, the doctors, nurses, and other professionals did have a hand in the healing, but they were aided and blessed in their abilities specifically by words to that effect in the Priesthood blessing. Glory be to God, and gratitude, thanks and honor to him for hearing my prayers, and honoring the blessing that was given.

Those two former bishops did not advertise on the internet that they would sell their priesthood blessings, or go on a radio show, or do seminars to gain followers. They simply did what they felt was good and right and gave God the glory.

Why is it so hard to see that

Moroni 7:12

Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

Moroni 7:13

But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mor ... ang=eng#11
???
Look to the teachers and authors of energy healing, do they fit the tests? Not many in my experience. On the contrary, If you dig back far enough, some dedicate their books to lucifer, and openly ascribe their power to him.

One last thing. You go to what you love. You turn to whatever you love - be it family, or whatever.
Many years back, I was not as close to my God as I was last winter. Way back then, when I was hurt really bad, I called out for my Mom (something I understand many soldiers do when they are seriously injured) because I loved her and she had eased my pains as a child. I just instinctivly without thinking, called out in pain for "MOM". When you are hurt and seeking relief, who or what do you turn to first? Hopefully you have developed a relationship with God that when you are hurt, you turn to Him and call out to Him, because you love Him. Turn to Him first, placing your trust in Him, then following whatever promptings he gives you, and it will turn out for good for you, whatever the outcome.

[Juliet]

We are asked to use our faith to heal people in the temple, specifically our faith, not the priesthood. The priesthood gives us the authorization to act in God's behalf. Anyone can heal by faith, and if miracles don't happen by faith, then we are a wicked and unbelieving generation. If we look at someone who uses faith to heal, and call them evil, then we are very naive as to what real evil is actually out there.

But, if they claim to use their faith to heal, then why are they charging $25.00 for a half hour session over the phone? They cannot or should not be claiming to use their 'faith' to heal when they are charging money for it. I think all believers understand that this WOULD be considered evil and improper use of one's faith.

When we are asked to use our combined faith in the temple, we don't charge money to do so. There's no comparison between an Energy healing session with an Energy Coach and exercising faith through our prayers for others.

Faith is one of the Gifts of God. We pray for miracles but we don't always recognize them. If a person is not healed, it is not simply because they lack faith or are wicked. Sometimes it is God's will that a person not be healed, at that time, or in the way we desire. If we are in tune with the spirit and submissive to God's will, hopefully we can come to understand God's will and timing.

Priesthood is the authority to act in God's name.

Priesthood holders are charged to give blessings and act in God's name in calling down powers from heaven, through faith. And of course, they do not charge money for their service.

And as for those rare energy healers who do it for free...

It becomes a matter of who you put your trust in;

If I'm a believing, active member of the LDS church and I have access to Priesthood blessings, why would I not choose that and instead go to an Energy healer? It seems like an odd choice for LDS to reject Priesthood blessings in favor of the claims of a new Age belief system...

Look, it takes faith to get out of bed and go to work every morning. Do you do that for free? ALL things are done by faith, whether in the physical realm, or the spirit realm. Look, you don't have to pay someone to give you their time and energy and faith. But to some, it is just as worth it as buying an apple at the grocery store that someone spent the faith to plant that seed, grow that orchard, and build the marketing network to sell to you.

Some day, every thing will be free. Until then, we have to operate the best we can in the world we are currently at. Until the Priesthood has solved all of the sin, poverty, and bad in this world, we have evolving to do. We don't have all the answers. We have endured many things, but we hope to endure all things. Until then, we have learning to do.

[butterfly]

It seems that some people are afraid that Satan will deceive them by performing a healing.
How does a healing occur?
1st- healing is a gift of the spirit. Satan does not possess gifts of the spirit.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

2nd-Jesus said that Satan would not fight against himself. So when Jesus healed and the scribes said He did it by the power of Satan, Jesus said: "how can Satan cast out Satan?"

3rd-Jesus heals a crippled woman and says that it was Satan who was making her sick:
11 ¶ And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.
13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

Then the church leaders got upset that Jesus had healed on the sabbath, so Jesus replies:

16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

So if Satan can't cast out Satan, and if Satan makes us sick, then can Satan heal us?

No, he can't. Healing is a gift of the spirit.
It is done by faith, according to Moroni 7:37 says it is by faith that miracles are wrought;...if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief,

Mormon teaches that you know a people are iniquitous when there are NOT healings:

13 But wickedness did prevail upon the face of the whole land, insomuch that the Lord did take away his beloved disciples, and the work of miracles and of healing did cease because of the iniquity of the people.

I cannot find any scriptures that tell us to beware the healings of Satan.
This verse shows healing is evidence of having been visited by God's spirit:
22 And as many as had devils cast out from them, and were healed of their sicknesses and their infirmities, did truly manifest unto the people that they had been wrought upon by the Spirit of God, and had been healed; and they did show forth signs also and did do some miracles among the people.

Satan does not heal. If someone is healing, no matter their profession or belief system, it is being accomplished by the spirit of God.

[Finrock]

When we are asked to use our combined faith in the temple, we don't charge money to do so. There's no comparison between an Energy healing session with an Energy Coach and exercising faith through our prayers for others.

This just isn't technically true. Being a full tithe payer is a prerequisite to temple attendance. Putting aside your personal beliefs and faith about tithing, what is happening is that people are paying money in order to attend the temple and in order to receive the blessing of the temple or for the privilege of being able to pray in behalf of somebody in the temple. This reality simply can't be denied. Money is being exchanged in order to utilize a service or in order to obtain a blessing.

Priesthood is the authority to act in God's name.

Priesthood holders are charged to give blessings and act in God's name in calling down powers from heaven, through faith. And of course, they do not charge money for their service.

And as for those rare energy healers who do it for free...

It becomes a matter of who you put your trust in;

If I'm a believing, active member of the LDS church and I have access to Priesthood blessings, why would I not choose that and instead go to an Energy healer? It seems like an odd choice for LDS to reject Priesthood blessings in favor of the claims of a new Age belief system...

Priesthood is really just the power to bless others. The power of the priesthood comes via the Holy Spirit. Our authority to exercise God's power does not come from man it comes from righteous living. We obtain the Holy Spirit and therefore power in the priesthood through the principles of righteousness. Anyone who is filled with the Holy Spirit is filled with God's power, which power is priesthood. Even women have access to exercise God's power, or priesthood power. They don't need to be set apart in some office of the priesthood in order to exercise priesthood power.

I'd rather get a blessing of healing from a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit and who has access to God's power through the principles of righteousness than I would a person who is attempting to exercise priesthood power only by virtue of a title and an office in the priesthood of the Church.

-Finrock