Another Question on Divorce

[brianj]

Hi all,
I have heard that if a church member gets into a relationship, or even gets engaged, while they are still married then the church will not allow them to be sealed. Is there anyone here who can confirm if this is true?

I'm going through a divorce right now. My wife filed in December and we have a court date in July, so we're not even halfway from filing do dissolution, and two days ago she announced on Facebook that she's engaged to a faithful Latter-day Saint. She blocked me on Facebook but a mutual friend sent me some screen captures dating back to December showing they were communicating.

At this point I expect my wife to continue with our divorce and, as soon as possible after the divorce is finalized, either marry this guy and petition for a sealing cancellation later or immediately petition for a cancellation so they can be married in a temple. So can anybody here tell me if it is true that the First Presidency will not allow a sealing to proceed if one of those people was sealed and married when they got involved and became engaged?

[Alaris]

She can't be sealed to two men. She can however break a sealing even if she committed adultery though she wouldn't be able to be sealed again until after a lengthy disciplinary action from a church council. Two years... One to excommunicate and be rebaptized and one to return to full fellowship.... That's if she's committed adultery.

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. I've been through divorce and am happy to lend an ear. The good news is few people return after being exed due to pride being where it is in the pride cycle. Not that that's good news but it may make you feel better.

[brianj]

Yesterday I would have said that I can't believe she would ever commit adultery, but yesterday I wouldn't have believed she would date while still married.

If she commits adultery she's likely to be excommunicated, but what if she doesn't? Will it matter to her Bishop or the First Presidency if I am able to provide indisputable evidence that she was dating and engaged four months before we become divorced?

[butterfly]

I'm so sorry you're having to experience this - divorce is such a wide range of intense emotions, I can't imagine anyone logically dating and getting engaged while still in the divorce process.

From what I understand, after the divorce is finalized, she can civilly marry another man while she is still sealed to you and there would be no church discipline brought about.

However, to date and become engaged while you are both still civilly married is, imo, just like Alaris said - a form of adultery. She may not be having sexual relations with another man, but dating and becoming engaged while still civilly married to you could certainly bring up church discipline. People get disciplined for pornography and that is not having sex with someone else, that's just not being emotionally faithful to your spouse.

She would likely not be excommunicated if she's not involved sexually, but I think a second temple marriage at the very least would be delayed. Legally and lawfully she's your wife. If you died tomorrow, she would get the life insurance benefits. If she's engaged to another man while she's married to you, it's adultery.

[DesertWonderer]

I'm sorry for you. I will pray for you tonight.

[mirkwood]

That sucks Brian, I'm sorry to hear all that.

I would go talk to your bishop about the issue. I don't know enough to make a definitive statement.

[BackBlast]

If she commits adultery she's likely to be excommunicated, but what if she doesn't? Will it matter to her Bishop or the First Presidency if I am able to provide indisputable evidence that she was dating and engaged four months before we become divorced?

After committing adultery, excommunication is a possible outcome. A lot will depend on what occurs in the court. Circumstances, her spiritual state of penitence, and inspiration can all find a strong role there.

I have not been party to many courts and it's been a few years besides. From my limited view, a disfellowship verdict is a more common route for women.

I doubt anything formal will happen for just dating/seeing a person before a divorce is finalized. It's not right, but may or may not elevate to a disciplinary council, depending on evidence. Definitely feel free to open a very frank and open communication path to your Bishop - he will have better guidance than you will find here.

[Matchmaker]

Hi all,
I have heard that if a church member gets into a relationship, or even gets engaged, while they are still married then the church will not allow them to be sealed. Is there anyone here who can confirm if this is true?

I'm going through a divorce right now. My wife filed in December and we have a court date in July, so we're not even halfway from filing do dissolution, and two days ago she announced on Facebook that she's engaged to a faithful Latter-day Saint. She blocked me on Facebook but a mutual friend sent me some screen captures dating back to December showing they were communicating.

At this point I expect my wife to continue with our divorce and, as soon as possible after the divorce is finalized, either marry this guy and petition for a sealing cancellation later or immediately petition for a cancellation so they can be married in a temple. So can anybody here tell me if it is true that the First Presidency will not allow a sealing to proceed if one of those people was sealed and married when they got involved and became engaged?

As long as she hasn't had sex with him while married to you, I think she still may be able to marry him in the temple someday. I'm not positive, though. I would think that each case would be determined separately on its own merits. Chances are that he is not the real reason behind the divorce.

[inho]

Hi all,
I have heard that if a church member gets into a relationship, or even gets engaged, while they are still married then the church will not allow them to be sealed. Is there anyone here who can confirm if this is true?

I'm going through a divorce right now. My wife filed in December and we have a court date in July, so we're not even halfway from filing do dissolution, and two days ago she announced on Facebook that she's engaged to a faithful Latter-day Saint. She blocked me on Facebook but a mutual friend sent me some screen captures dating back to December showing they were communicating.

At this point I expect my wife to continue with our divorce and, as soon as possible after the divorce is finalized, either marry this guy and petition for a sealing cancellation later or immediately petition for a cancellation so they can be married in a temple. So can anybody here tell me if it is true that the First Presidency will not allow a sealing to proceed if one of those people was sealed and married when they got involved and became engaged?

As long as she hasn't had sex with him while married to you, I think she still may be able to marry him in the temple someday. I'm not positive, though. I would think that each case would be determined separately on its own merits. Chances are that he is not the real reason behind the divorce.

I think Matchamaker is correct.
This is the relevant paragraph from Handbook 1:

If a person commits adultery while married to a spouse to whom he or she has been sealed, he or she may not be sealed to the partner in the adultery unless the sealing is authorized by the President of the Church. Such authorization may be requested after the couple have been married for at least five years. The request may be submitted with an application for cancellation of sealing or sealing clearance.

My understanding is that in Handbook adultery means having sex. If she is just dating someone now, she could get a cancellation of the sealing and then be sealed to her boyfriend. Her bishop and SP need to write a recommendation for the cancellation of the sealing. If either of them has a reason to believe that she was already involved with her boyfriend before she filed divorce, I'm sure they would tell that in the application to the First Presidency and that would affect the decision FP would make.

[brianj]

Thanks all. I'm saddened by this, particularly because of the example she's setting for our son, but the news has been liberating. I now know that she emotionally left me years ago and this divorce is not my fault.

[paulrobots]

Your op states that she is engaged to a faithful LDS (man). How is he faithful when he is dating a married woman? What's his story? Divorced? Separated but not divorced? Never married? All I'm saying is it takes two.

It shouldn't take eight months to get a divorce, but she still shouldn't have put herself out there/made herself available.

Both of their bishops should be made aware of the situation, let them judge it.

In the meantime, have you put yourself out there as well? Will you date before the divorce is final? The honest answers to these questions should inform how you judge your (someday) ex-wife.

[EmmaLee]

My sister's husband left her in May - the divorce was final in July - and he was married/sealed to another woman in the temple in January. Yes, they had met and started dating before the divorce was final. Yes, he and my sister had been married in the temple. Other than if outright physical adultery is committed, honestly, I don't think the Church cares about such things much anymore.

[brianj]

Your op states that she is engaged to a faithful LDS (man). How is he faithful when he is dating a married woman? What's his story? Divorced? Separated but not divorced? Never married? All I'm saying is it takes two.

It shouldn't take eight months to get a divorce, but she still shouldn't have put herself out there/made herself available.

Both of their bishops should be made aware of the situation, let them judge it.

In the meantime, have you put yourself out there as well? Will you date before the divorce is final? The honest answers to these questions should inform how you judge your (someday) ex-wife.

Sarcasm doesn't always come across clearly. She calls her fiancé faithful, but how faithful is somebody who dates a married woman?

Her attorney did not file for a court date until two months after she filed for divorce, and it takes five months to get a court date and that jurisdiction right now.

I have very strong feelings on the right and wrong and I will not date, or even sign up for a singles meet website, until the divorce is finalized. Trust me: I really want to get out there! I want the social confidence that will come from Some successful dates. But I am pretty confident that dating while married would be a violation of temple covenants, as well as and act of if not physical adultery, spiritual adultery.

[Alaris]

Your op states that she is engaged to a faithful LDS (man). How is he faithful when he is dating a married woman? What's his story? Divorced? Separated but not divorced? Never married? All I'm saying is it takes two.

It shouldn't take eight months to get a divorce, but she still shouldn't have put herself out there/made herself available.

Both of their bishops should be made aware of the situation, let them judge it.

In the meantime, have you put yourself out there as well? Will you date before the divorce is final? The honest answers to these questions should inform how you judge your (someday) ex-wife.

Sarcasm doesn't always come across clearly. She calls her fiancé faithful, but how faithful is somebody who dates a married woman?

Her attorney did not file for a court date until two months after she filed for divorce, and it takes five months to get a court date and that jurisdiction right now.

I have very strong feelings on the right and wrong and I will not date, or even sign up for a singles meet website, until the divorce is finalized. Trust me: I really want to get out there! I want the social confidence that will come from Some successful dates. But I am pretty confident that dating while married would be a violation of temple covenants, as well as and act of if not physical adultery, spiritual adultery.

It's perfectly normal to feel that way. My ex told me it takes two to ruin a marriage. Pfft. It takes only one but it certainly can take two. Nobody is perfect so my advice to you is to be introspective rather than lay the blame squarely at her feet.

That said I felt exactly... Feel exactly the way you do. The blame for my failed marriage lays squarely at the feet of my ex. I'll look at the Lord straight in the eye... who already knows my sins because I confessed them... And testify the failure is not even partially owned by me.

I even have three years of a marriage now as a witness that I can make a woman happy and be in a successful marriage. I am a good, giving father and a good, giving husband. And if you are those things too then take heart that there are good, giving women out there that are not like the majority of the world... Who are good natured and will be a good wife to you and mother to your children.

[paulrobots]

Your op states that she is engaged to a faithful LDS (man). How is he faithful when he is dating a married woman? What's his story? Divorced? Separated but not divorced? Never married? All I'm saying is it takes two.

It shouldn't take eight months to get a divorce, but she still shouldn't have put herself out there/made herself available.

Both of their bishops should be made aware of the situation, let them judge it.

In the meantime, have you put yourself out there as well? Will you date before the divorce is final? The honest answers to these questions should inform how you judge your (someday) ex-wife.

Sarcasm doesn't always come across clearly. She calls her fiancé faithful, but how faithful is somebody who dates a married woman?

Her attorney did not file for a court date until two months after she filed for divorce, and it takes five months to get a court date and that jurisdiction right now.

I have very strong feelings on the right and wrong and I will not date, or even sign up for a singles meet website, until the divorce is finalized. Trust me: I really want to get out there! I want the social confidence that will come from Some successful dates. But I am pretty confident that dating while married would be a violation of temple covenants, as well as and act of if not physical adultery, spiritual adultery.

Glad to hear. You will be blessed for waiting. Too many people are in a rush to "prove" something to their ex.

I know a guy who never stopped dating after he got married. His wife found out and started divorce
proceedings. He got one of the several women pregnant. They rushed the marriage so she wouldn't be showing at their wedding. But he wasn't divorced. #-o Only polygamist I ever met.

Anyway, as you can imagine, the second marriage didn't go much better than the first.

[e-eye2.0]

I believe if you commit adults and end up marrying that person you committed adultry with you have to wait 5' years before even being eligible to marry them in the temple.