1nephi11
20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.
21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw?
22 And I answered him, saying: Yea, it is the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the most desirable above all things.
23 And he spake unto me, saying: Yea, and the most joyous to the soul.
The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
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Vicki
- Hi, I'm new.
- Posts: 6
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
I have always been a little puzzled by the term "gospel hobbies", what is it? Is it something negative? The dictionary defines hobbies as doing something for pleasure or for entertainment. Is our studying for only proving a point and not living by it? Those are not the bests reasons to study the gospel and scriptures. Christ should be at the heart of our study. Studying the scriptures or feasting upon the scriptures to find answers, seeking knowledge, conforming to Heavenly Fathers Law, living a higher standard than what the world gives, or when we gain knowledge and we warn our neighbor, that is not being lukewarm, so is it extreme? (But we just better be right with our understanding of the gospel and scripture to avoid apostasy) seeking the word of God, with dedication; is this A Gospel hobby. Something we do for pleasure or entertainment, feasting and dining with the scriptures. But feasting and seeking like this, could be a gospel hobby in a positive way. I'm still wondering if that is the best word to use or not. I don't really like. It is so vague in defining church guidelines or church authority recommendations. It is so general.
In my situation, some might have thought of me as living extreme when I had almost lost my life after giving birth. I was at near death for quite awhile. What did I do in my year of weakness and pain? I turned to the D&C 89 and other scriptures and books for interpretation, to put my physical house back in order. After using a FEW of the medical options, I decided that for myself I needed to do things without the high costs of the medical system. My diet became extreme to the worlds standards of daily living. But others did not know my plight. I felt that I needed to rebuild. Rebuilding cellular tissues and throwing out toxins (by cleanses) from my body, which I knew would take time and focused energy to go through and recover. That was my focus at that time, to get back to health. It was not a hobby, because it was more intense than that. I never thought my extremism (by the world standards) was going against Christ. Studying the Word of Wisdom brought more strength for me to eat better. Christ is the mark and he gave us the word of wisdom. If we are living by the scriptures, than how could we be extreme? If, someone is dying, then some people may choose to do alternative Methods. That might be extreme to one (because they don't understand it) but not to others. The scripture don't say all things we should do to avoid death. The apostles and prophets do not even teach about health. And they don't spend their time studying about it either. They do teach what is in the Word of Wisdom, which is really a small fraction of health, but what is said is very healthful. During this crucial time in my life, I had to study and discern the information on health and make the best possible choices for myself. But, I don't want to be put in the category of extremism, when I have done nothing but tried to make Christ my mark. The third cause of death in the United States is due to medical malpractice, overdose, secondary infections, hospital complications or medical errors. Is that not extreme? If you don't believe that, look it up.
I don't know the case by case stories that the brethren have seen so I can't speak for them on what they see as extremism and how people are acting with it. But again, I don't want to be looked at as extreme by the church's standard. Yet, many times there are those who would categorize me into off the mark. Or extremism. And I say wow, because really all that I feel like I'm doing finding better health for me and my situation. Even then people take offense. I wonder then who is off the mark? I do want to find the good, understand the word of wisdom, which was given by Christ, because He is the mark. I just want to live a good life!
In my situation, some might have thought of me as living extreme when I had almost lost my life after giving birth. I was at near death for quite awhile. What did I do in my year of weakness and pain? I turned to the D&C 89 and other scriptures and books for interpretation, to put my physical house back in order. After using a FEW of the medical options, I decided that for myself I needed to do things without the high costs of the medical system. My diet became extreme to the worlds standards of daily living. But others did not know my plight. I felt that I needed to rebuild. Rebuilding cellular tissues and throwing out toxins (by cleanses) from my body, which I knew would take time and focused energy to go through and recover. That was my focus at that time, to get back to health. It was not a hobby, because it was more intense than that. I never thought my extremism (by the world standards) was going against Christ. Studying the Word of Wisdom brought more strength for me to eat better. Christ is the mark and he gave us the word of wisdom. If we are living by the scriptures, than how could we be extreme? If, someone is dying, then some people may choose to do alternative Methods. That might be extreme to one (because they don't understand it) but not to others. The scripture don't say all things we should do to avoid death. The apostles and prophets do not even teach about health. And they don't spend their time studying about it either. They do teach what is in the Word of Wisdom, which is really a small fraction of health, but what is said is very healthful. During this crucial time in my life, I had to study and discern the information on health and make the best possible choices for myself. But, I don't want to be put in the category of extremism, when I have done nothing but tried to make Christ my mark. The third cause of death in the United States is due to medical malpractice, overdose, secondary infections, hospital complications or medical errors. Is that not extreme? If you don't believe that, look it up.
I don't know the case by case stories that the brethren have seen so I can't speak for them on what they see as extremism and how people are acting with it. But again, I don't want to be looked at as extreme by the church's standard. Yet, many times there are those who would categorize me into off the mark. Or extremism. And I say wow, because really all that I feel like I'm doing finding better health for me and my situation. Even then people take offense. I wonder then who is off the mark? I do want to find the good, understand the word of wisdom, which was given by Christ, because He is the mark. I just want to live a good life!
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diligently seeking
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1272
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
Vicki, my advice to you, for what it's worth, is don't worry about what anybody else thinks. You anchor your self to Christ the sure foundation/rock of salvation. As you do this, your discernment of knowing when a man / woman speaks or does not speak by the power of the Holy Ghost will be clear.
Affirmation from God through the reception of the Holy Ghost when we are founded on his son ( abiding) Jesus Christ is infinitely more worthwhile than the affirmation from men because we're following their dictates.
Also, remember, often a message from a holy spirit-led leader-- not all of it pertains to the listener. Always let the spirit guide you to understand what is applicable and what is not. Again, this clear discernment (free Of Heartache of wondering whether you are doing what is right in the popular eye of man) comes when you are beING led by the light of this world Jesus Christ >>first and foremost = believing that you can have an intimate one-on-one relationship with Jesus and be governed by him...
4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Isn't it (a) beautiful imagery (reality) of abiding in Christ and Christ abiding in US!
More of God's motivating word on why we should first and foremost abide in Christ:
2nephi28
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!
27 Yea, wo be unto him that saith: We have received, and we need no more!
28 And in fine, wo unto all those who tremble, and are angry because of the truth of God! For behold, he that is built upon the rock receiveth it with gladness; and he that is built upon a sandy foundation trembleth lest he shall fall.
29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost..."
Also, what a great reminder these scriptures are helping understand why and how Through prayer etc our lives should be governed by Christ and why sometimes we don't let our lives be governed *first and foremost* by Christ:
2nephi32
8And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.
9 But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.
Affirmation from God through the reception of the Holy Ghost when we are founded on his son ( abiding) Jesus Christ is infinitely more worthwhile than the affirmation from men because we're following their dictates.
Also, remember, often a message from a holy spirit-led leader-- not all of it pertains to the listener. Always let the spirit guide you to understand what is applicable and what is not. Again, this clear discernment (free Of Heartache of wondering whether you are doing what is right in the popular eye of man) comes when you are beING led by the light of this world Jesus Christ >>first and foremost = believing that you can have an intimate one-on-one relationship with Jesus and be governed by him...
4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Isn't it (a) beautiful imagery (reality) of abiding in Christ and Christ abiding in US!
More of God's motivating word on why we should first and foremost abide in Christ:
2nephi28
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!
27 Yea, wo be unto him that saith: We have received, and we need no more!
28 And in fine, wo unto all those who tremble, and are angry because of the truth of God! For behold, he that is built upon the rock receiveth it with gladness; and he that is built upon a sandy foundation trembleth lest he shall fall.
29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost..."
Also, what a great reminder these scriptures are helping understand why and how Through prayer etc our lives should be governed by Christ and why sometimes we don't let our lives be governed *first and foremost* by Christ:
2nephi32
8And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.
9 But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.
Last edited by diligently seeking on March 15th, 2017, 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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diligently seeking
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1272
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
The message of this beautiful song promotes what I'm trying to share.
https://youtu.be/lElSWBjyLWA
Let's lift the "condemnation" in our lives individually and in our families and in the church. Let's have these beautiful resources God has given us promote Jesus first / our lives being governed by him:
John 3:
6For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Introduction to the Book of Mormon
Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”
2nephi25:
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
Nephi's heart, as should ours, magnified the Holy Name of Jesus...
D&C 93:
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.
D&C84
world.
49 And the whole world lieth in sin, and groaneth under darkness and under the bondage of sin.
50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.
51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written
Ether 12
41 And now, I would commend you to seek this Jesus of whom the prophets and apostles have written, that the grace of God the Father, and also the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of them, may be and abide in you forever. Amen.
Moroni 10
31 And awake, and arise from the dust, O Jerusalem; yea, and put on thy beautiful garments, O daughter of Zion; and strengthen thy stakes and enlarge thy borders forever, that thou mayest no more be confounded, that the covenants of the Eternal Father which he hath made unto thee, O house of Israel, may be fulfilled.
32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
https://youtu.be/lElSWBjyLWA
Let's lift the "condemnation" in our lives individually and in our families and in the church. Let's have these beautiful resources God has given us promote Jesus first / our lives being governed by him:
John 3:
6For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Introduction to the Book of Mormon
Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”
2nephi25:
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
Nephi's heart, as should ours, magnified the Holy Name of Jesus...
D&C 93:
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.
D&C84
world.
49 And the whole world lieth in sin, and groaneth under darkness and under the bondage of sin.
50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.
51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written
Ether 12
41 And now, I would commend you to seek this Jesus of whom the prophets and apostles have written, that the grace of God the Father, and also the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of them, may be and abide in you forever. Amen.
Moroni 10
31 And awake, and arise from the dust, O Jerusalem; yea, and put on thy beautiful garments, O daughter of Zion; and strengthen thy stakes and enlarge thy borders forever, that thou mayest no more be confounded, that the covenants of the Eternal Father which he hath made unto thee, O house of Israel, may be fulfilled.
32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
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freedomforall
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
The homeowner then knows who to watch for when it comes time to protect.
In all seriousness, now when it comes to a person storing up goods for his own family and others, if that's their desire...what's wrong with that? Our Heavenly Father gives all that He has to those that qualify to dwell with Him, does He not? There is a lesson to be learned here.
It really is upsetting to hear the mocking of others for their charitable desires. Does anyone think that God will bless those that refuse to feed the hungry and cloth the naked freely?
During a crisis where helping others may be necessary, isn't this a good time to gain friends...friends that will help in times where protection becomes unavoidable? Would not these people you help give of their own substance even if it was their last dollar? Isn't there more safety in numbers? Is a man an island?
Gospel hobbies, RIGHT!
We only see the outer man, God looks upon the heart.
1 Sam 16
7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
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freedomforall
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
Say what? These directives are the Lord's way. From the BoM As follows:Meili wrote: ↑March 10th, 2017, 4:23 pmI believe this is a very keen insight. In seeking to instruct people on how to avoid contention, the man is creating a rift between himself and his fellowman, or in other words, creating contention.Finrock wrote: ↑March 10th, 2017, 10:02 am This whole article is fuel for contention and disputation because it aims to judge others as being wrong, while the author is right. It creates an us and them. These people are extreme, I, the author, am moderate and balanced.
The author is exhausted by the recruiting attempts by "catastrophist". Labeling people is a sure fire way to create an us versus them scenario. Contention and disputation on full display. Being exhausted by something is just another way of saying they are frazzled or "done with" something, which are just another way of being angry/upset.
-Finrock
I think he has some good points but I believe his premise is off. The focus of the Book of Mormon is not to avoid contention. It's to urge people to come unto Christ. When people come unto Christ, contention will be cleansed out of their lives in the Lord's way, which often includes experiencing more contention at first as hell unleashes its fury against you. His focus on avoiding contention is misleading. You can damn yourself seeking only to avoid contention rather than to come to Christ.
The main problem this misinterpretation of focus creates is that we receive what we focus on in life. If we are going around thinking, avoid contention, avoid contention, we are sure to find contention at every turn. On the other hand, if our focus is, seek Christ, repent, forgive, etc., we will find him and avoid contention as a side effect as well.
the Lord commands that men not contend one with another: 2 Ne. 26:32 .
beware lest contentions arise among you: Mosiah 2:32 .
Alma commands no contention among Church members: Mosiah 18:21 .
great contentions arise among people of Church: Alma 4:9 .
Amulek admonishes people not to contend against the Holy Ghost: Alma 34:38 .
Satan spreads rumors and contentions: Hel. 16:22 .
devil is father of contention, stirs up men to contend with anger: 3 Ne. 11:29 .
no contentions in land because of love of God: 4 Ne. 1:2, 13, 15, 18 .
he who contends against word of the Lord will be accursed: Ether 4:8 .
The Lord commands men not to contend with one another:2 Ne. 26:32;
Ye will not suffer your children to fight and quarrel with one another:Mosiah 4:14;
Alma commanded that there be no contention among Church members:Mosiah 18:21;
The devil is the father of contention and stirs up men to contend with one another:3 Ne. 11:29; ( Mosiah 23:15; )
.............................................................................................................................................
Contention among church members can and does become a stumbling block.
Alma 4:10
10 And thus ended the eighth year of the reign of the judges; and the wickedness of the church was a great stumbling-block to those who did not belong to the church; and thus the church began to fail in its progress.
Rom. 14:13 .
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
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Matchmaker
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2266
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
I need a good definition of contention that this convert can understand. Please help, if you can.
Some people in the Church, and out of it, will perceive others as being contentious, when all the other person is doing, in my opinion, is voicing a differing opinion than the speaker, or simply looking for clarification or further understanding of the reasons behind doing something. When does a healthy discussion cross the line into contention?
I'm sure avoiding contention is not meant to turn us into sheep who follow others blindly and can't think for themselves.
Some people in the Church, and out of it, will perceive others as being contentious, when all the other person is doing, in my opinion, is voicing a differing opinion than the speaker, or simply looking for clarification or further understanding of the reasons behind doing something. When does a healthy discussion cross the line into contention?
I'm sure avoiding contention is not meant to turn us into sheep who follow others blindly and can't think for themselves.
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diligently seeking
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1272
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
Contention is Darkness.
The peaceable things of God are light and truth and edifies.
The condition of our heart determines which we will receive / promote.
D&C 50
17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.
21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?
22 Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together.
23 And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness.
24 That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.
25 And again, verily I say unto you, and I say it that you may know the truth, that you may chase darkness from among you
The peaceable things of God are light and truth and edifies.
The condition of our heart determines which we will receive / promote.
D&C 50
17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.
21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?
22 Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together.
23 And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness.
24 That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.
25 And again, verily I say unto you, and I say it that you may know the truth, that you may chase darkness from among you
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diligently seeking
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1272
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
More on the heart and its pivotal role in what we promote:
10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Matthew 6
19 ¶ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 ¶ No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon
2nephi 25
10 Wherefore, it hath been told them concerning the destruction which should come upon them, immediately after my father left Jerusalem; nevertheless, they hardened their hearts; and according to my prophecy they have been destroyed, save it be those which are carried away captive into Babylon.
11 And now this I speak because of the spirit which is in me. And notwithstanding they have been carried away they shall return again, and possess the land of Jerusalem; wherefore, they shall be restored again to the land of their inheritance.
12 But, behold, they shall have wars, and rumors of wars; and when the day cometh that the Only Begotten of the Father, yea, even the Father of heaven and of earth, shall manifest himself unto them in the flesh, behold, they will reject him, because of their iniquities, and the hardness of their hearts, and the stiffness of their necks.
13 Behold, they will crucify him; and after he is laid in a sepulchre for the space of three days he shall rise from the dead, with healing in his wings; and all those who shall believe on his name shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Wherefore, my soul delighteth to prophesy concerning him, for I have seen his day, and my heart doth magnify his holy name.
1nephi 2:
9 And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Laman, saying: O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness!
10 And he also spake unto Lemuel: O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!
11 Now this he spake because of the stiffneckedness of Laman and Lemuel; for behold they did murmur in many things against their father, because he was a visionary man, and had led them out of the land of Jerusalem, to leave the land of their inheritance, and their gold, and their silver, and their precious things, to perish in the wilderness. And this they said he had done because of the foolish imaginations of his heart.
12 And thus Laman and Lemuel, being the eldest, did murmur against their father. And they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them.
13 Neither did they believe that Jerusalem, that great city, could be destroyed according to the words of the prophets. And they were like unto the Jews who were at Jerusalem, who sought to take away the life of my father.
14 And it came to pass that my father did speak unto them in the valley of Lemuel, with power, being filled with the Spirit, until their frames did shake before him. And he did confound them, that they durst not utter against him; wherefore, they did as he commanded them.
15 And my father dwelt in a tent.
16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers.
17 And I spake unto Sam, making known unto him the things which the Lord had manifested unto me by his Holy Spirit. And it came to pass that he believed in my words.
18 But, behold, Laman and Lemuel would not hearken unto my words; and being grieved because of the hardness of their hearts I cried unto the Lord for them.
D&C 39
1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ
2 The light and the life of the world; a light which shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not;
3 The same which came in the meridian of time unto mine own, and mine own received me not;
4 But to as many as received me, gave I power to become my sons; and even so will I give unto as many as will receive me, power to become my sons.
5 And verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth my gospel receiveth me; and he that receiveth not my gospel receiveth not me.
6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.
Moroni 7
3 Wherefore, I would speak unto you that are of the church, that are the peaceable followers of Christ, and that have obtained a sufficient hope by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven.
4 And now my brethren, I judge these things of you because of your peaceable walk with the children of men.
3Nephi 11:
29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another. Etc...
10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Matthew 6
19 ¶ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 ¶ No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon
2nephi 25
10 Wherefore, it hath been told them concerning the destruction which should come upon them, immediately after my father left Jerusalem; nevertheless, they hardened their hearts; and according to my prophecy they have been destroyed, save it be those which are carried away captive into Babylon.
11 And now this I speak because of the spirit which is in me. And notwithstanding they have been carried away they shall return again, and possess the land of Jerusalem; wherefore, they shall be restored again to the land of their inheritance.
12 But, behold, they shall have wars, and rumors of wars; and when the day cometh that the Only Begotten of the Father, yea, even the Father of heaven and of earth, shall manifest himself unto them in the flesh, behold, they will reject him, because of their iniquities, and the hardness of their hearts, and the stiffness of their necks.
13 Behold, they will crucify him; and after he is laid in a sepulchre for the space of three days he shall rise from the dead, with healing in his wings; and all those who shall believe on his name shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Wherefore, my soul delighteth to prophesy concerning him, for I have seen his day, and my heart doth magnify his holy name.
1nephi 2:
9 And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Laman, saying: O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness!
10 And he also spake unto Lemuel: O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!
11 Now this he spake because of the stiffneckedness of Laman and Lemuel; for behold they did murmur in many things against their father, because he was a visionary man, and had led them out of the land of Jerusalem, to leave the land of their inheritance, and their gold, and their silver, and their precious things, to perish in the wilderness. And this they said he had done because of the foolish imaginations of his heart.
12 And thus Laman and Lemuel, being the eldest, did murmur against their father. And they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them.
13 Neither did they believe that Jerusalem, that great city, could be destroyed according to the words of the prophets. And they were like unto the Jews who were at Jerusalem, who sought to take away the life of my father.
14 And it came to pass that my father did speak unto them in the valley of Lemuel, with power, being filled with the Spirit, until their frames did shake before him. And he did confound them, that they durst not utter against him; wherefore, they did as he commanded them.
15 And my father dwelt in a tent.
16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers.
17 And I spake unto Sam, making known unto him the things which the Lord had manifested unto me by his Holy Spirit. And it came to pass that he believed in my words.
18 But, behold, Laman and Lemuel would not hearken unto my words; and being grieved because of the hardness of their hearts I cried unto the Lord for them.
D&C 39
1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ
2 The light and the life of the world; a light which shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not;
3 The same which came in the meridian of time unto mine own, and mine own received me not;
4 But to as many as received me, gave I power to become my sons; and even so will I give unto as many as will receive me, power to become my sons.
5 And verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth my gospel receiveth me; and he that receiveth not my gospel receiveth not me.
6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.
Moroni 7
3 Wherefore, I would speak unto you that are of the church, that are the peaceable followers of Christ, and that have obtained a sufficient hope by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven.
4 And now my brethren, I judge these things of you because of your peaceable walk with the children of men.
3Nephi 11:
29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another. Etc...
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captainfearnot
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1975
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
Matchmaker wrote: ↑March 15th, 2017, 5:06 am I need a good definition of contention that this convert can understand. Please help, if you can.
Some people in the Church, and out of it, will perceive others as being contentious, when all the other person is doing, in my opinion, is voicing a differing opinion than the speaker, or simply looking for clarification or further understanding of the reasons behind doing something. When does a healthy discussion cross the line into contention?
I'm sure avoiding contention is not meant to turn us into sheep who follow others blindly and can't think for themselves.
The quote from 3 Nephi is "the spirit of contention is of the devil." There's an article in the Ensign that addresses the difference between disagreement and contention here.
It’s normal for people to have different views, and there are times when disciples of Jesus Christ need to stand up in the face of opposition for what we believe. But we need to state our positions in a positive and factual way without becoming angry, bitter, or insulting. So how do we avoid contentious conflict?
You’ve probably heard we can “disagree without being disagreeable.” Avoiding contention begins with your motives and desires. The scriptures say that “only by pride cometh contention” (Proverbs 13:10). If you care more about “winning an argument” or “being right,” a spirit of contention is almost certain to follow.
Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has taught some ways to avoid contention: (1) “show compassionate concern for others”; (2) “bridle the passion to speak or write contentiously for personal gain or glory”; and (3) “in humble submissiveness, truly [love] God.”1 Then we can have the Spirit of the Lord with us, not the spirit of contention.
When I ponderize what is meant by the "spirit of contention," I'm reminded of recent studies that have shown that as a culture we are becoming increasingly addicted to moral outrage. Social networks make it easy to seek out the most extreme and strident positions on either side of an issue, and many of us will intentionally look for people who are espousing the views we find most offensive because we get a rush from the anger that wells up when we encounter them. I think that's the spirit of contention that is of the devil. Just because you might be on the moral or righteous side of an issue doesn't mean you're justified in indulging your wrath. Compassion, patience and long-suffering are still called for.
That being said, I do think members of the church often cite the avoidance of contention as a passive-aggressive maneuver in an argument. Any disagreement can be dismissed as inciting contention, in favor of the status quo. I don't think that's what the "spirit of contention" means at all. I think it is just a reminder to handle our disagreements like mature adults who are striving to be Christlike.
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Matchmaker
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2266
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
Thank you. This is just the information I was looking for.captainfearnot wrote: ↑March 15th, 2017, 2:01 pmMatchmaker wrote: ↑March 15th, 2017, 5:06 am I need a good definition of contention that this convert can understand. Please help, if you can.
Some people in the Church, and out of it, will perceive others as being contentious, when all the other person is doing, in my opinion, is voicing a differing opinion than the speaker, or simply looking for clarification or further understanding of the reasons behind doing something. When does a healthy discussion cross the line into contention?
I'm sure avoiding contention is not meant to turn us into sheep who follow others blindly and can't think for themselves.
The quote from 3 Nephi is "the spirit of contention is of the devil." There's an article in the Ensign that addresses the difference between disagreement and contention here.
It’s normal for people to have different views, and there are times when disciples of Jesus Christ need to stand up in the face of opposition for what we believe. But we need to state our positions in a positive and factual way without becoming angry, bitter, or insulting. So how do we avoid contentious conflict?
You’ve probably heard we can “disagree without being disagreeable.” Avoiding contention begins with your motives and desires. The scriptures say that “only by pride cometh contention” (Proverbs 13:10). If you care more about “winning an argument” or “being right,” a spirit of contention is almost certain to follow.
Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has taught some ways to avoid contention: (1) “show compassionate concern for others”; (2) “bridle the passion to speak or write contentiously for personal gain or glory”; and (3) “in humble submissiveness, truly [love] God.”1 Then we can have the Spirit of the Lord with us, not the spirit of contention.
When I ponderize what is meant by the "spirit of contention," I'm reminded of recent studies that have shown that as a culture we are becoming increasingly addicted to moral outrage. Social networks make it easy to seek out the most extreme and strident positions on either side of an issue, and many of us will intentionally look for people who are espousing the views we find most offensive because we get a rush from the anger that wells up when we encounter them. I think that's the spirit of contention that is of the devil. Just because you might be on the moral or righteous side of an issue doesn't mean you're justified in indulging your wrath. Compassion, patience and long-suffering are still called for.
That being said, I do think members of the church often cite the avoidance of contention as a passive-aggressive maneuver in an argument. Any disagreement can be dismissed as inciting contention, in favor of the status quo. I don't think that's what the "spirit of contention" means at all. I think it is just a reminder to handle our disagreements like mature adults who are striving to be Christlike.
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freedomforall
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
Contention = strifeMatchmaker wrote: ↑March 15th, 2017, 5:06 am I need a good definition of contention that this convert can understand. Please help, if you can.
Some people in the Church, and out of it, will perceive others as being contentious, when all the other person is doing, in my opinion, is voicing a differing opinion than the speaker, or simply looking for clarification or further understanding of the reasons behind doing something. When does a healthy discussion cross the line into contention?
I'm sure avoiding contention is not meant to turn us into sheep who follow others blindly and can't think for themselves.
Strife =
vigorous or bitter conflict, discord, or antagonism: to be at strife.
a quarrel, struggle, or clash: armed strife.
competition or rivalry:
angry or violent struggle; conflict
rivalry or contention, esp of a bitter kind
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Matchmaker
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2266
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
Thanks, Freedomforall. That's a good definition of contention. The presence of anger, bitterness, or envy changes things.freedomforall wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 8:03 amContention = strifeMatchmaker wrote: ↑March 15th, 2017, 5:06 am I need a good definition of contention that this convert can understand. Please help, if you can.
Some people in the Church, and out of it, will perceive others as being contentious, when all the other person is doing, in my opinion, is voicing a differing opinion than the speaker, or simply looking for clarification or further understanding of the reasons behind doing something. When does a healthy discussion cross the line into contention?
I'm sure avoiding contention is not meant to turn us into sheep who follow others blindly and can't think for themselves.
Strife =
vigorous or bitter conflict, discord, or antagonism: to be at strife.
a quarrel, struggle, or clash: armed strife.
competition or rivalry:
angry or violent struggle; conflict
rivalry or contention, esp of a bitter kind
I like your blue bird avatar also.
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freedomforall
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: The Dangers of Gospel Hobbies
Thank you, and you're welcome.Matchmaker wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 8:18 amThanks, Freedomforall. That's a good definition of contention. The presence of anger, bitterness, or envy changes things.freedomforall wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 8:03 amContention = strifeMatchmaker wrote: ↑March 15th, 2017, 5:06 am I need a good definition of contention that this convert can understand. Please help, if you can.
Some people in the Church, and out of it, will perceive others as being contentious, when all the other person is doing, in my opinion, is voicing a differing opinion than the speaker, or simply looking for clarification or further understanding of the reasons behind doing something. When does a healthy discussion cross the line into contention?
I'm sure avoiding contention is not meant to turn us into sheep who follow others blindly and can't think for themselves.
Strife =
vigorous or bitter conflict, discord, or antagonism: to be at strife.
a quarrel, struggle, or clash: armed strife.
competition or rivalry:
angry or violent struggle; conflict
rivalry or contention, esp of a bitter kind
I like your blue bird avatar also.
