What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

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Yod
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What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Yod »

Judas Iscariot was called of God.
He was a true prophet - a spokesman for the Lord, with a message to give the people from the Lord.
He was a true apostle - he was eyewitness to the Lord and served as his diplomat to the people.
His name was written in heaven.
He had power over unclean spirits and devils and so forth.
He partook of the sacrament adminstered by the Lord.
His feet were washed by the Lord.
He was a self-righteous busybody, as we learn from John.
He was a thief, as we learn from John.
He was an unbeliever, as we also learn from John.
He betrayed Jesus because Jesus rebuked him publicly for being a hypocritical busybody.
He took money to betray Jesus.
He felt guilt, anguish, and remorse afterwards.
He tried to give the money back to salve his conscience.
He killed himself in his torments.

Is there a lesson there to be learned?

"Many are called, but few are chosen."

Matchmaker
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Matchmaker »

There will be opposition in all things. Don't let it dissuade you from doing your duty.

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Robin Hood
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Robin Hood »

Yod wrote: February 26th, 2017, 11:03 am Judas Iscariot was called of God.
He was a true prophet - a spokesman for the Lord, with a message to give the people from the Lord.
He was a true apostle - he was eyewitness to the Lord and served as his diplomat to the people.
His name was written in heaven.
He had power over unclean spirits and devils and so forth.
He partook of the sacrament adminstered by the Lord.
His feet were washed by the Lord.
He was a self-righteous busybody, as we learn from John.
He was a thief, as we learn from John.
He was an unbeliever, as we also learn from John.
He betrayed Jesus because Jesus rebuked him publicly for being a hypocritical busybody.
He took money to betray Jesus.
He felt guilt, anguish, and remorse afterwards.
He tried to give the money back to salve his conscience.
He killed himself in his torments.

Is there a lesson there to be learned?

"Many are called, but few are chosen."

I don't think Jesus washed his feet.

Yod
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Yod »


diligently seeking
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by diligently seeking »

The advice and counsel and wisdom found in the book of Jude is super powerful / beautiful--and if adhered to and given life through the sanctifying influence of the Holy Ghost through faith in Christ-- pitfalls / temptations of Satan will not win the day...

Yod
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Yod »

I will suggest two lessons.

1. It is foolishness to trust in those whom God has called; any one or more of them could be traitors to God.
2. You can't say that God wouldn't do that, because God has demonstrably done that.

That may be why Jesus said these things.
JST Mark
Mark 9:40 Therefore, if thy hand offend thee, cut it off; or if thy brother offend thee, and confess not, and forsake not, he shall be cut off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than, having two hands, to go into hell.

Mark 9:41 For it is better for thee to enter into life without thy brother, than for thee and thy brother to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:42 And again, if thy foot offend thee, cut it off; for he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, if he become a transgressor, he shall be cut off.

Mark 9:43 It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than, having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

Mark 9:44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall by himself and not for another, or not trusting another.
The context is what it sounds like.
Mark 9:45 Seek unto my Father, and it shall be done in that very moment what ye shall ask, if ye ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive.

Mark 9:46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.

Mark 9:47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hellfire.

Mark 9:48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not and where the fire is not quenched.

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inho
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by inho »

Yod wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:27 am 1. It is foolishness to trust in those whom God has called; any one or more of them could be traitors to God.
2. You can't say that God wouldn't do that, because God has demonstrably done that.
What is the purpose of the calling, if those who they are called to serve are not to trust them?

Yod
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Yod »

inho wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:48 am
Yod wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:27 am 1. It is foolishness to trust in those whom God has called; any one or more of them could be traitors to God.
2. You can't say that God wouldn't do that, because God has demonstrably done that.
What is the purpose of the calling, if those who they are called to serve are not to trust them?
That's a good question. Do the scriptures answer why God calls traitors as servants? Why did God call Judas?

God also made provisions for removing traitors in high places in the D&C. Maybe the possibility that God calls traitors to high places is a relevant idea. Why would God make such provisions?

Finrock
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Finrock »

Yod wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:50 am
inho wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:48 am
Yod wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:27 am 1. It is foolishness to trust in those whom God has called; any one or more of them could be traitors to God.
2. You can't say that God wouldn't do that, because God has demonstrably done that.
What is the purpose of the calling, if those who they are called to serve are not to trust them?
That's a good question. Do the scriptures answer why God calls traitors as servants? Why did God call Judas?

God also made provisions for removing traitors in high places in the D&C. Maybe the possibility that God calls traitors to high places is a relevant idea. Why would God make such provisions?
To use a symbol, life is a checker board, an admixture of the good and the evil. We must learn to discern between the good and the evil, the black and the white squares. We must put our complete trust in God only and in no other and learn to discern between what is Spirit and what is not. There has to be a mechanism by which we can develop our ability to discern and an opposition to trusting in God or Spirit. Also, all of the holy scriptures, in my view, lead or direct us to love God and to love others, to include and perhaps more importantly, to love our enemies.

We can't abdicate our responsibility to obtain and retain the Holy Ghost, which will guide us in all that is good and fill us with love so that we are not respecter of persons.

Calling a traitor provides a mechanism by which these things can be realized.

-Finrock

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inho
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by inho »

Yod wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:50 am Do the scriptures answer why God calls traitors as servants? Why did God call Judas?
I assume Judas was worthy at the time of the call. If the omniscient God had not called him knowing he would became traotor, would that taken away Judas' agency?

Yod
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Yod »

That's a good question, too.

That's like asking if God knew Lucifer would turn traitor.

Yod
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Yod »

Which suggests another potential lesson from both Judas and Lucifer, actually.

3. Traitors in high places can be there from the beginning, as they have been.

Juliet
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Juliet »

If you become a bad guy, evil, and hard hearted, instead of killing yourself, just stop and become a good guy and use your experience to prevent others from making the same mistakes. Societies fall into depravity because it is our nature to do so. Shame doesn't help people come out of depravity. Only love and forgiveness brings people back to peace and a sound mind. It always occurs to me that Satan will be our accuser before the judgment, Jesus will be advocating for mercy. So, who will you let be your judge? All it takes is faith in Christ to be healed of any iniquity.

Yod
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Yod »

Yeah, but bad guys always think they are good guys, or that whatever bad they do is really the other guy's fault, or that they are right to do bad in order to do others good, or that they are right to do bad because others do bad, and such like things.

You can't repent if you keep blaming others for your own deeds, neither can you repent if you justify yourself - pretend to yourself that you are really doing good by doing bad.

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stillwater
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by stillwater »

inho wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:48 am
Yod wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:27 am 1. It is foolishness to trust in those whom God has called; any one or more of them could be traitors to God.
2. You can't say that God wouldn't do that, because God has demonstrably done that.
What is the purpose of the calling, if those who they are called to serve are not to trust them?
Receiving the message of a messenger doesn't require you to trust them. Evaluate each message on its own merits, receiving only what you are given by the spirit (D&C 50:19-20). To trust is to make an assumption of correctness, honesty, and truth, and any degree of such assumption violates the scriptural commandment not to trust in the arm of the flesh. If God is no respecter of persons, we cannot be if we hope to be saved.

Serragon
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Serragon »

Yod,

If it is foolishness to trust in those whom God has called, why do you use the scriptures (the words of those whom God has called) to justify this and other positions you have taken in previous threads?

Older/wiser?
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Older/wiser? »

Lessons to be learned : Anyone can Fall , Pride goeth before the fall, and Lucifer was righteous at first, he was made great because of his connections, all the fowls of heaven made there nest in his boughs, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations. Yet he fell as many great ones.

Yod
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Yod »

Serragon wrote: February 27th, 2017, 10:50 am Yod,

If it is foolishness to trust in those whom God has called, why do you use the scriptures (the words of those whom God has called) to justify this and other positions you have taken in previous threads?
Because I'm talking to people who believe the scriptures to be the word of God.

sushi_chef
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by sushi_chef »

"He killed himself in his torments."
vs
"Joseph Smith in a Short speech Sanctioned what had been Said by Rigdon though said he I don't want the brethren to act unlawfully but
page 26
will tell them one thing Judas was a traitor and instead of hanging himself was hung by Peter, and with this hint the subject was dropped for the day having created a great excitement and prepared the people to execute anything that should be proposed.
"
https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?t ... did=391716

if only if he, judas had been able to see the vision(the spirit world?) then....

example of that seeing....

"In early February, Joseph Smith received a vision not described in any section of the Doctrine and Covenants (though it is noted in the History of the Church).[3] Joseph Young remembered the Prophet bringing him and his brother Brigham to his residence in Kirtland and explaining that he had seen a vision of the men who died on Zion’s Camp: “Brethren, I have seen those men who died of the cholera in our camp; and the Lord knows, if I get a mansion as bright as theirs, I ask no more.” After that, Joseph Smith “wept, and for some time could not speak.” When he had composed himself, the Prophet explained that a Church conference should be convened where brethren would be called as Apostles and Seventies.[4]
" https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smi ... hrist-1835
:-B

diligently seeking
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by diligently seeking »

Yod wrote: February 27th, 2017, 10:09 am Yeah, but bad guys always think they are good guys, or that whatever bad they do is really the other guy's fault, or that they are right to do bad in order to do others good, or that they are right to do bad because others do bad, and such like things.

You can't repent if you keep blaming others for your own deeds, neither can you repent if you justify yourself - pretend to yourself that you are really doing good by doing bad.

I can't help my self. Your expressions remind me of this little clip. https://youtu.be/uxeR95aYer0

The family watched this goofy little flick over the weekend. :p

Yod-- I hope you come around on the significance of scripture power. they represent living waters of Christ and will prove to keep you safe from harm and sin. :) Be apart of the hunger and thirst / feast upon his word, crowd! increased personal revelation etc will result!!

Mosiah 1
1 And now there was no more contention in all the land of Zarahemla, among all the people who belonged to king Benjamin, so that king Benjamin had continual peace all the remainder of his days.

2And it came to pass that he had three sons; and he called their names Mosiah, and Helorum, and Helaman. And he caused that they should be taught in all the language of his fathers, that thereby they might become men of understanding; and that they might know concerning the prophecies which had been spoken by the mouths of their fathers, which were delivered them by the hand of the Lord.

3And he also taught them concerning the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, saying: My sons, I would that ye should remember that were it not for these plates, which contain these records and these commandments, we must have suffered in ignorance, even at this present time, not knowing the mysteries of God.

4For it were not possible that our father, Lehi, could have remembered all these things, to have taught them to his children, except it were for the help of these plates; for he having been taught in the language of the Egyptians therefore he could read these engravings, and teach them to his children, that thereby they could teach them to their children, and so fulfilling the commandments of God, even down to this present time.

5 I say unto you, my sons, were it not for these things, which have been kept and preserved by the hand of God, that we might read and understand of his mysteries, and have his commandments always before our eyes, that even our fathers would have dwindled in unbelief, and we should have been like unto our brethren, the Lamanites, who know nothing concerning these things, or even do not believe them when they are taught them, because of the traditions of their fathers, which are not correct.

6 O my sons, I would that ye should remember that these sayings are true, and also that these records are true. And behold, also the plates of Nephi, which contain the records and the sayings of our fathers from the time they left Jerusalem until now, and they are true; and we can know of their surety because we have them before our eyes.

7And now, my sons, I would that ye should remember to search them diligently, that ye may profit thereby; and I would that ye should keep the commandments of God, that ye may prosper in the land according to the promises which the Lord made unto our fathers.

8 And many more things did king Benjamin teach his sons, which are not written in this book...

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FTC
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by FTC »

Every year, on the Learning or Discovery channel (I can't remember which), during Christmas or Easter (I can't remember which either haha), they have a special on the life of Jesus. Part of it is specifically focused on Judas. What they conclude is that Judas wasn't acting premeditatively as a traitor. The way he acted throughout the whole thing, taking into context of life, society, and those cultural norms of that time and place, it seems that he was trying to get the political high ups to listen to Jesus' message in hopes they would be converted. Judas was bringing them to Jesus in hopes that they would listen to the Gospel when just one-on-one in private with Jesus, without having to upkeep their image in front of the general populace.
When Judas finally realizes what their true intentions are, that's when he snaps and goes off the deep end.
I can dig this idea.
So what's my final call on Judas? He fulfilled the measure of his creation. Tragically.

Older/wiser?
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Older/wiser? »

? Why did he take 30 pieces of silver

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marc
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by marc »

Serragon wrote: February 27th, 2017, 10:50 amIf it is foolishness to trust in those whom God has called, why do you use the scriptures (the words of those whom God has called) to justify this and other positions you have taken in previous threads?

The scriptures are the message, not the messengers. I find it interesting how throughout history, most people cannot separate the message from the messenger. The messenger is almost always challenged. The Pharisees witnessed Christ's miracles, which miracles were the Father's testimony of His Son. The Father bore witness of the Son through the miracles the Son performed. But because the Scribes and Pharisees didn't know the Father, they rejected the Son disbelieving their own eyes. Heathens would have bowed down immediately and recognized a God. Even the woman at the well, a Samaritan, could perceive the truth in Jesus just from his words alone.

Older/wiser?
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by Older/wiser? »

? Why at the last supper did the Lord say "he who dips his sop with me will betray me",
As much as I trust all the media and find them flawless , and know that they have all truth , I see to much evidence to the contrary.

sushi_chef
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Re: What Is the Lesson to Us in Judas Iscariot?

Post by sushi_chef »

"2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.

3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.

31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
" (luke 22)

at that time both were not converted.
:-B

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