D&C 50

[rewcox]

D&C 50 is a higher level section in the scriptures. One theme is about coming to Christ and God.

43 And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me; and inasmuch as ye have received me, ye are in me and I in you.

44 Wherefore, I am in your midst, and I am the good shepherd, and the stone of Israel. He that buildeth upon this rock shall never fall.

45 And the day cometh that you shall hear my voice and see me, and know that I am.

46 Watch, therefore, that ye may be ready. Even so. Amen.

Christ is the Stone of Israel. When we build upon that rock, we will not fall. As we receive Christ, he is in us and we are in Him. This would also put us in God, or Father.

The day will come when we hear Christ's voice, and see Him, and know Him. What a promise!

[gclayjr]

Rewcox,

I am reminded of that oft told tale in sacrament meetings where somebody is called into a room and asked what he knows about Jesus Christ. He goes on for an hour or more quoting scriptures and reciting the various traits of Jesus Christ.

Then a second man is brought into the same room and asked the same question, and he falls onto his knees and cries Master.

Regards,

George Clay

[cayenne]

Rewcox,

I am reminded of that oft told tale in sacrament meetings where somebody is called into a room and asked what he knows about Jesus Christ. He goes on for an hour or more quoting scriptures and reciting the various traits of Jesus Christ.

Then a second man is brought into the same room and asked the same question, and he falls onto his knees and cries Master.

Regards,

George Clay

Wonderful. Thanks for sharing.

[jwharton]

I really like these verses:

7 Behold, verily I say unto you, there are hypocrites among you, who have deceived some, which has given the adversary power; but behold such shall be reclaimed;
8 But the hypocrites shall be detected and shall be cut off, either in life or in death, even as I will; and wo unto them who are cut off from my church, for the same are overcome of the world.
9 Wherefore, let every man beware lest he do that which is not in truth and righteousness before me.


The message I get here is even after a person dies and leaves mortality they are still subject to being "cut off" and excommunicated.
So, a person could go throughout their life and the world could love them and lap them with praise and reward them with its rewards.
But, if that person was in any way an enemy to the Father's Celestial Order, the power of the Priesthood can search them out and see.
If they will be found to have assented to the Son of Man having been put to an open shame and crucified afresh, they shall be cut off.
It won't matter what position of responsibility or leadership they held and the honors and praise the people bestowed upon them either.
If there is innocent blood of any kind on their hands, whether physical or spiritual, they shall be held accountable for their actions.

[Alaris]

I really like these verses:

7 Behold, verily I say unto you, there are hypocrites among you, who have deceived some, which has given the adversary power; but behold such shall be reclaimed;
8 But the hypocrites shall be detected and shall be cut off, either in life or in death, even as I will; and wo unto them who are cut off from my church, for the same are overcome of the world.
9 Wherefore, let every man beware lest he do that which is not in truth and righteousness before me.


The message I get here is even after a person dies and leaves mortality they are still subject to being "cut off" and excommunicated.
So, a person could go throughout their life and the world could love them and lap them with praise and reward them with its rewards.
But, if that person was in any way an enemy to the Father's Celestial Order, the power of the Priesthood can search them out and see.
If they will be found to have assented to the Son of Man having been put to an open shame and crucified afresh, they shall be cut off.
It won't matter what position of responsibility or leadership they held and the honors and praise the people bestowed upon them either.
If there is innocent blood of any kind on their hands, whether physical or spiritual, they shall be held accountable for their actions.

Great post. There are natural laws that prevent a hypocrite from fully being able to mimic the fruits of the righteous. Detecting such is one of the fruits of the gift of discernment. One easy tell of the hypocrite is those who constantly attack those on the path feigning superiority and bullying with the scriptures. Obvious attempt to make oneself feel better by dragging others down.

[jwharton]

Great post.

Thank you!

There are natural laws that prevent a hypocrite from fully being able to mimic the fruits of the righteous.
Detecting such is one of the fruits of the gift of discernment.
One easy tell of the hypocrite is those who constantly attack those on the path feigning superiority and bullying with the scriptures.
Obvious attempt to make oneself feel better by dragging others down.

I agree with what you are saying here 100%.
I have been involved with religiously oriented discussion for over 15 years now.
Discernment is something that builds and grows with experience.
Sincere people will learn from their own mistakes and from observing the mistakes of others.
It is through a person's sincerity and genuine efforts to both learn and share that builds discernment.

I'm sure you will agree utilizing scripture is an important part of having substantive discussion.
So, I don't think you are really trying to put in a bad light those who make frequent appeals to them.
My feeling is I should do more to at least reference the scriptures I am drawing my understanding from.

Also, if someone is sharing scriptures, anyone who is "on the path" shouldn't ever be dragged down by them.
The scriptures are the Word of God and all who are sincere will have the Holy Ghost to understand them properly.
The problem only comes in when people cross the line of being personally disrespectful of who they are talking to.

I've experienced disrespectful people slamming scriptures on me before.
The Holy Ghost often teaches me something that wasn't even in their heart or mind.
Instead of proving their point, they facilitated me having more truth revealed.

Hypocrites have an important role to play in helping the truly sincere to receive truth.
Many times I have found myself grateful to them for what they have helped me to learn.
The bottom line for me is you spot those who listen and seek to understand who are sincere.

It never ceases to amaze me how all of the antics of the adversary find their way into supposed Saints.
And, I do my best to guard myself because it also amazes me how weak and prone we are to falter.
Oh that we could all have faith and be generous and willing to sincerely hear one another out!

[jwharton]

And, amazingly, it turns out my previous post is complimented by the verses which follow:

10 And now come, saith the Lord, by the Spirit, unto the elders of his church, and let us reason together, that ye may understand;
11 Let us reason even as a man reasoneth one with another face to face.
12 Now, when a man reasoneth he is understood of man, because he reasoneth as a man; even so will I, the Lord, reason with you that you may understand.
13 Wherefore, I the Lord ask you this question--unto what were ye ordained?
14 To preach my gospel by the Spirit, even the Comforter which was sent forth to teach the truth.
15 And then received ye spirits which ye could not understand, and received them to be of God; and in this are ye justified?
16 Behold ye shall answer this question yourselves; nevertheless, I will be merciful unto you; he that is weak among you hereafter shall be made strong.
17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.


I believe what my post above puts into words is a definition of what preaching by the Spirit of truth actually is.
Before we cross the line and decide to start to judge what someone is attempting to share, we should first make sure we understand.
In other words, we should make sure we are having a clear and precise reception of what someone's efforts are working to accomplish.
We want to first confirm we have a truthful reception of one another so we can reason together and be mutually understood and edified.

Is all it takes for the spirit of truth to be lost is for one to shift into a mode of seeking to bully instead of seeking to edify and understand.


19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.
21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?
22 Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together.
23 And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness.


The crescendo of this whole point the Lord is making is that in order for people to be of the proper spirit, they must put work and effort into actually understanding one another. Then, once they have reached a state of mutual understanding, then they can both be edified and have something to rejoice about. And, it might just be that they remain in disagreement, but such can be done in a mutually respectful manner and each can walk away from the exchange getting from it whatever the Holy Spirit wished for each to obtain. Not everyone is at the same level and place.


24 That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.
25 And again, verily I say unto you, and I say it that you may know the truth, that you may chase darkness from among you;

It is in this manner and in this Spirit of truth that all of us can assist one another in chasing darkness from among us.

And, in this process, people will need to be prepared to face some difficult truths. They will be confronted by these hard truths and it will tempt them to try and personally attack and discredit the person attempting to share those truths. This is the line that is crossed when someone departs from having the spirit of truth. Or, they will deliberately try and shift the context and start to throw up arguments only to confuse and muddy the waters and move away from that genuine effort to accomplish mutual confirmed clarity, which clarity must be sought for and obtained if each wishes to be edified.

[Amonhi]

D&C 50 is a higher level section in the scriptures. One theme is about coming to Christ and God.

43 And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me; and inasmuch as ye have received me, ye are in me and I in you.

44 Wherefore, I am in your midst, and I am the good shepherd, and the stone of Israel. He that buildeth upon this rock shall never fall.

45 And the day cometh that you shall hear my voice and see me, and know that I am.

46 Watch, therefore, that ye may be ready. Even so. Amen.

Christ is the Stone of Israel. When we build upon that rock, we will not fall. As we receive Christ, he is in us and we are in Him. This would also put us in God, or Father.

The day will come when we hear Christ's voice, and see Him, and know Him. What a promise!

Couple this wonderful post with these scriptures which show the path from A to B.

34 These words are not of men nor of man, but of me; wherefore, you shall testify they are of me and not of man;

35 For it is my voice which speaketh them unto you; for they are given by my Spirit unto you, and by my power you can read them one to another; and save it were by my power you could not have them;
36 Wherefore, you can testify that you have heard my voice, and know my words. - D&C 18

Doctrine and Covenants 84:47
47 And every one that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

The Good Shepherd calls. His voice is the spirit. His sheep know his voice and come to his call. They follow his voice and come to him and return to his presence and see him.

Peace,
Amonhi

[rewcox]

D&C 50 is a higher level section in the scriptures. One theme is about coming to Christ and God.

43 And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me; and inasmuch as ye have received me, ye are in me and I in you.

44 Wherefore, I am in your midst, and I am the good shepherd, and the stone of Israel. He that buildeth upon this rock shall never fall.

45 And the day cometh that you shall hear my voice and see me, and know that I am.

46 Watch, therefore, that ye may be ready. Even so. Amen.

Christ is the Stone of Israel. When we build upon that rock, we will not fall. As we receive Christ, he is in us and we are in Him. This would also put us in God, or Father.

The day will come when we hear Christ's voice, and see Him, and know Him. What a promise!

Couple this wonderful post with these scriptures which show the path from A to B.

34 These words are not of men nor of man, but of me; wherefore, you shall testify they are of me and not of man;

35 For it is my voice which speaketh them unto you; for they are given by my Spirit unto you, and by my power you can read them one to another; and save it were by my power you could not have them;
36 Wherefore, you can testify that you have heard my voice, and know my words. - D&C 18

Doctrine and Covenants 84:47
47 And every one that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

The Good Shepherd calls. His voice is the spirit. His sheep know his voice and come to his call. They follow his voice and come to him and return to his presence and see him.

Peace,
Amonhi

Good points!

We can add these verses from D&C 1:

2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither cear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.

3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.

5 And they shall ago forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

If I am understanding this correctly, we can hear Christ's voice:
- In the scriptures
- In our heads
- In the voice of His servants
- While actually seeing Christ and hearing him

Quite amazing.

[Amonhi]

D&C 50 is a higher level section in the scriptures. One theme is about coming to Christ and God.

43 And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me; and inasmuch as ye have received me, ye are in me and I in you.

44 Wherefore, I am in your midst, and I am the good shepherd, and the stone of Israel. He that buildeth upon this rock shall never fall.

45 And the day cometh that you shall hear my voice and see me, and know that I am.

46 Watch, therefore, that ye may be ready. Even so. Amen.

Christ is the Stone of Israel. When we build upon that rock, we will not fall. As we receive Christ, he is in us and we are in Him. This would also put us in God, or Father.

The day will come when we hear Christ's voice, and see Him, and know Him. What a promise!

Couple this wonderful post with these scriptures which show the path from A to B.

34 These words are not of men nor of man, but of me; wherefore, you shall testify they are of me and not of man;

35 For it is my voice which speaketh them unto you; for they are given by my Spirit unto you, and by my power you can read them one to another; and save it were by my power you could not have them;
36 Wherefore, you can testify that you have heard my voice, and know my words. - D&C 18

Doctrine and Covenants 84:47
47 And every one that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

The Good Shepherd calls. His voice is the spirit. His sheep know his voice and come to his call. They follow his voice and come to him and return to his presence and see him.

Peace,
Amonhi

Good points!

We can add these verses from D&C 1:

2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither cear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.

3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.

5 And they shall ago forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

If I am understanding this correctly, we can hear Christ's voice:
- In the scriptures
- In our heads
- In the voice of His servants
- While actually seeing Christ and hearing him

Quite amazing.

That's right, any way that the Holy Ghost can bear witness to you is a way in which the lord can speak you you with his own voice. Good call Rewcox!

Peace,
Amonhi