Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

[investigator]

Is it doctrinal or scripturally sound to require faith in a prophet?

[rewcox]

You can always trust in the flesh of your own arm.

There is a better way:
17 And he said unto Alma: Thou shalt go before this people, and I will go with thee and deliver this people out of bondage.

20 And Alma and his people departed into the wilderness; and when they had traveled all day they pitched their tents in a valley, and they called the valley Alma, because he led their way in the wilderness.

Christ is with his Prophets.

[rewcox]

Faith
Faith is to hope for things which are not seen, but which are true (Heb. 11:1; Alma 32:21), and must be centered in Jesus Christ in order to produce salvation. To have faith is to have confidence in something or someone. The Lord has revealed Himself and His perfect character, possessing in their fulness all the attributes of love, knowledge, justice, mercy, unchangeableness, power, and every other needful thing, so as to enable the mind of man to place confidence in Him without reservation. Faith is kindled by hearing the testimony of those who have faith (Rom. 10:14–17). Miracles do not produce faith, but strong faith is developed by obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ; in other words, faith comes by righteousness, although miracles often confirm one’s faith.

Faith is a principle of action and of power, and by it one can command the elements, heal the sick, and influence any number of circumstances when occasion warrants (Jacob 4:4–7). Even more important, by faith one obtains a remission of sins and eventually can stand in the presence of God.

All true faith must be based upon correct knowledge or it cannot produce the desired results. Faith in Jesus Christ is the first principle of the gospel and is more than belief, since true faith always moves its possessor to some kind of physical and mental action; it carries an assurance of the fulfillment of the things hoped for. A lack of faith leads one to despair, which comes because of iniquity.

Although faith is a gift, it must be cultured and sought after until it grows from a tiny seed to a great tree. The effects of true faith in Jesus Christ include (1) an actual knowledge that the course of life one is pursuing is acceptable to the Lord (see Heb. 11:4); (2) a reception of the blessings of the Lord that are available to man in this life; and (3) an assurance of personal salvation in the world to come. These things involve individual and personal testimony, guidance, revelation, and spiritual knowledge. Where there is true faith there are miracles, visions, dreams, healings, and all the gifts of God that He gives to His saints. Jesus pointed out some obstacles to faith in John 5:44 and 12:39–42 (see also James 1:6–8).

Other references to faith include JST Gen. 14:26–36 (Appendix); 2 Cor. 5:7; Eph. 2:8–9; Heb. 11; James 2:14–26; 1 Pet. 1:8–9; Enos 1:6–8; Alma 32; Moro. 10:11; D&C 46:13–16.


Prophet
The work of a Hebrew prophet was to act as God’s messenger and make known God’s will. The message was usually prefaced with the words “Thus saith Jehovah.” He taught men about God’s character, showing the full meaning of His dealings with Israel in the past. It was therefore part of the prophetic office to preserve and edit the records of the nation’s history; and such historical books as Joshua, Judges, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings were known by the Jews as the former Prophets. It was also the prophet’s duty to denounce sin and foretell its punishment and to redress, so far as he could, both public and private wrongs. He was to be, above all, a preacher of righteousness. When the people had fallen away from a true faith in Jehovah, the prophets had to try to restore that faith and remove false views about the character of God and the nature of the divine requirement. In certain cases prophets predicted future events, such as the very important prophecies announcing the coming of Messiah’s kingdom; but as a rule a prophet was a forthteller rather than a foreteller. In a general sense a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost, as in Num. 11:25–29; Rev. 19:10.

[time4175]

I would say it is doctrine to have faith in Jesus Christ and to receive a testimony of the Prophet of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost.

When reading the book of Mormon in 1st Nephi. Lehi, Nephi's dad had a dream. Because of Nephi's faith in Heavenly Father he asked to receive confirmation of his dad's dream. A testimony of the truthfulness of what his dad was saying.

The prophet is to lead the church and as members we are to pray for the testimony to receive confirmation of the truth and act accordingly. Jesus Christ leads the prophet. If the prophet was to say we should stop eating cherios cereal for instance we should seek confirmation by Holy Ghost. If we are not able to receive confirmation for one reason or another then act according to testimony received of prophet which would require Faith. Just my 2 cents!

[rewcox]

Special Witnesses of Christ bearing their testimonies. Special Witnesses

[Jeremy]

Special Witnesses of Christ bearing their testimonies. Special Witnesses

What is a "special witness"?

[Todd]

Special Witnesses of Christ bearing their testimonies. Special Witnesses

What is a "special witness"?

See D&C 107:26

[rewcox]

Special Witnesses of Christ bearing their testimonies. Special Witnesses

What is a "special witness"?

See D&C 107:26

And then there are especial witnesses!

[Jeremy]

What is a "special witness"?

See D&C 107:26

So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's name. What does that mean?

[Todd]

What is a "special witness"?

See D&C 107:26

So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's name. What does that mean?

Good question. I always thought that everyone's witness of Christ was special. Guess not.

[Thomas]

I would say it is doctrine to have faith in Jesus Christ and to receive a testimony of the Prophet of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost.

When reading the book of Mormon in 1st Nephi. Lehi, Nephi's dad had a dream. Because of Nephi's faith in Heavenly Father he asked to receive confirmation of his dad's dream. A testimony of the truthfulness of what his dad was saying.

The prophet is to lead the church and as members we are to pray for the testimony to receive confirmation of the truth and act accordingly. Jesus Christ leads the prophet. If the prophet was to say we should stop eating cherios cereal for instance we should seek confirmation by Holy Ghost. If we are not able to receive confirmation for one reason or another then act according to testimony received of prophet which would require Faith. Just my 2 cents!

Here is the thing though. If Christ wants us to stop eating Cheerios, he will tell us himself. A prophet is not needed for that. A prophet's job is to lead us to Christ. Christ takes over from that point. The prophet Nephi describes this in 2 Nephi 31-32.

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

This is the path to salvation. It is to receive the Holy Ghost, which is the mind of Christ and the Father, which can dwell within you and follow what it tells you to do. You damn yourself if you confine yourself to listening to the prophet. Damn means blocked as in how a damn blocks water from flowing. You block yourself or damn yourself from God, if you will not do as the true prophet Nephi instructs you to do.

Faith in a prophet is misplaced and not productive. Only faith in Christ saves.

PS. I know Rewcox does not believe in heeding the advice of dead prophets. Therefore, he is free to disregard Nephi's instruction and throw his scriptures in the trash.

[Finrock]

We aren't required to have faith in a prophet. There is no scripture that says we should have faith in God's chosen prophets.

We are told repeatedly to have faith in Jesus Christ and that only by having faith in Christ can we be saved.

Prophets are there to teach us about Christ and to testify of Him. They specifically encourage us to not just take their word that God lives, but to have faith in Christ and ask in His name to find out the truth for ourselves through the power of the Holy Ghost.

-Finrock

[time4175]

PS. I know Rewcox does not believe in heeding the advice of dead prophets. Therefore, he is free to disregard Nephi's instruction and throw his scriptures in the trash.

There is organization in Heavenly Father church right? Is there a God head? Faith in a prophet and us it required is the question right?

So the faith that counts is faith in Jesus Christ. Faith in man is not true doctrine. Having a testimony of a prophet is it necessary? In what ways do we receive revelation? Can you receive revelation for me and my life? In the new testament why are there 12 apostles? Are they needed? Was Jesus Christ the prophet at the time of him living on earth? Did Heavenly Father speak to all the apostles that followed Jesus Christ? What does 1st Nephi 22:8 mean to you? What does 1st Nephi 7:14 mean to you? Lastly what does 3rd Nephi 11:28, 29, and 30 mean to you.

Take care and I hope you have a great weekend and sabbath day.

[investigator]

Preach My Gospel

We are to have faith in God’s chosen prophet, gain conviction of his divine calling, and follow his teachings.

Considering "The Doctrine of Christ" found in 3 Nephi 11, is requiring "faith in God's chosen prophet" more than what is required in the Doctrine of Christ?

3 Nephi 11:40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

Is requiring "faith in God's chosen prophet" counter to

2 Nephi 4:34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

We should "heed" or even "follow" the counsel of true prophets as they direct us to Christ, however, is requiring faith in God's chosen prophet elevating the prophet to a status that is beyond scriptural or doctrinal intent?

[rewcox]

PS. I know Rewcox does not believe in heeding the advice of dead prophets. Therefore, he is free to disregard Nephi's instruction and throw his scriptures in the trash.

That is a dumb statement Thomas.

[gclayjr]

Finrock, Investigator, TIme4175

We aren't required to have faith in a prophet. There is no scripture that says we should have faith in God's chosen prophets.

We are told repeatedly to have faith in Jesus Christ and that only by having faith in Christ can we be saved.

Prophets are there to teach us about Christ and to testify of Him. They specifically encourage us to not just take their word that God lives, but to have faith in Christ and ask in His name to find out the truth for ourselves through the power of the Holy Ghost.

I am often criticized by many, including some of you, for being the "language police", by going back and showing how what you say makes no sense whatsoever. Somehow we are supposed to figure out your "cleverness" based upon what you mean rather than what you actually say. I must admit that in following this line of logic, I have become a bit confused as to how much of this is deceptive rhetoric, and how much of it is a stupor of thought. I guess only God knows. So let's start with the premise of this thread

Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

The key word being played with here is Faith. The Dictionary defines Faith as:

faith
[fāTH]
NOUN

complete trust or confidence in someone or something:
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust · belief · confidence · conviction · optimism · [more]
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
synonyms: religion · church · sect · denomination · [more]

It is Clear that the word faith, depending upon context can mean simply "trusting" someone. Or in the scriptures, it is the being in which one puts the Ultimate trust, for our salvation. The scriptures are clear, that the only one to whom we can trust to save us is our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

That being said, we have scriptures that do exhort us to "trust" the lord's servants to guide us. Such as

D&C 1:38

What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

or D&C 112:20

Whosoever receiveth my word receiveth me, and whosoever receiveth me, receiveth those, the First Presidency, whom I have sent, whom I have made counselors for my name’s sake unto you.

Now I get it. Many of you don't want to accept that the current LDS church is lead by a true prophet of God, and that we are counseled that we should heed his advice, and that God will not allow him to lead us astray. I must admit, I do not understand the constant need to be deceptive and sly and pretend that you are not either apostate, heretical, or not even LDS, and that you come from a different point of view, and continually need to contrive twisted word games/logic to show that your position is the real LDS position.

So that leads me to 3 questions

1) Was the premise of this thread a word game trap to ensnare a person who responds to the affirmative, meaning that one should trust the prophet of God to not lead us astray, then slamming them with scriptures that show that one should only have faith that only Jesus Christ can save us?

or

2) Do you not understand that based upon context Faith can have 2 different meanngs?

or

3) Do you really think that when Rewcox, or other TBMs, including myself say that we have faith that the the Lord will not allow the prophet to lead us astray, that what we really mean is that we have faith that the prophet will save us?

I have come to the point that I really don't know if you are just being nasty and tricky, or whether you are really that clueless.

Regards,

George Clay

[rewcox]

Finrock, Investigator, TIme4175

We aren't required to have faith in a prophet. There is no scripture that says we should have faith in God's chosen prophets.

We are told repeatedly to have faith in Jesus Christ and that only by having faith in Christ can we be saved.

Prophets are there to teach us about Christ and to testify of Him. They specifically encourage us to not just take their word that God lives, but to have faith in Christ and ask in His name to find out the truth for ourselves through the power of the Holy Ghost.

I am often criticized by many, including some of you, for being the "language police", by going back and showing how what you say makes no sense whatsoever. Somehow we are supposed to figure out your "cleverness" based upon what you mean rather than what you actually say. I must admit that in following this line of logic, I have become a bit confused as to how much of this is deceptive rhetoric, and how much of it is a stupor of thought. I guess only God knows. So let's start with the premise of this thread

Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

The key word being played with here is Faith. The Dictionary defines Faith as:

faith
[fāTH]
NOUN

complete trust or confidence in someone or something:
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust · belief · confidence · conviction · optimism · [more]
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
synonyms: religion · church · sect · denomination · [more]

It is Clear that the word faith, depending upon context can mean simply "trusting" someone. Or in the scriptures, it is the being in which one puts the Ultimate trust, for our salvation. The scriptures are clear, that the only one to whom we can trust to save us is our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

That being said, we have scriptures that do exhort us to "trust" the lord's servants to guide us. Such as

D&C 1:38

What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

or D&C 112:20

Whosoever receiveth my word receiveth me, and whosoever receiveth me, receiveth those, the First Presidency, whom I have sent, whom I have made counselors for my name’s sake unto you.

Now I get it. Many of you don't want to accept that the current LDS church is lead by a true prophet of God, and that we are counseled that we should heed his advice, and that God will not allow him to lead us astray. I must admit, I do not understand the constant need to be deceptive and sly and pretend that you are not either apostate, heretical, or not even LDS, and that you come from a different point of view, and continually need to contrive twisted word games/logic to show that your position is the real LDS position.

So that leads me to 3 questions

1) Was the premise of this thread a word game trap to ensnare a person who responds to the affirmative, meaning that one should trust the prophet of God to not lead us astray, then slamming them with scriptures that show that one should only have faith that only Jesus Christ can save us?

or

2) Do you not understand that based upon context Faith can have 2 different meanngs?

or

3) Do you really think that when Rewcox, or other TBMs, including myself say that we have faith that the the Lord will not allow the prophet to lead us astray, that what we really mean is that we have faith that the prophet will save us?

I have come to the point that I really don't know if you are just being nasty and tricky, or whether you are really that clueless.

Regards,

George Clay

George, in addition to deceptive rhetoric and stupor of thought, you can add going down a strange path.

[Finrock]

Finrock, Investigator, TIme4175

We aren't required to have faith in a prophet. There is no scripture that says we should have faith in God's chosen prophets.

We are told repeatedly to have faith in Jesus Christ and that only by having faith in Christ can we be saved.

Prophets are there to teach us about Christ and to testify of Him. They specifically encourage us to not just take their word that God lives, but to have faith in Christ and ask in His name to find out the truth for ourselves through the power of the Holy Ghost.

I am often criticized by many, including some of you, for being the "language police", by going back and showing how what you say makes no sense whatsoever. Somehow we are supposed to figure out your "cleverness" based upon what you mean rather than what you actually say. I must admit that in following this line of logic, I have become a bit confused as to how much of this is deceptive rhetoric, and how much of it is a stupor of thought. I guess only God knows. So let's start with the premise of this thread

You have not even once shown or demonstrated how what I have said makes no sense whatsoever. You have on a number of occasions asserted that this is the case, but there is a difference between asserting something and then reasonably demonstrating it. So, you've hardly been criticized for that. What you did, though, is a well played rhetorical device. You'd make a great politician. Instead, I've called you out for attacking people's character, loaded questions, accusations, misrepresenting the facts, and unfounded judgments; all of which are essentially arguments of irrelevance.

In your latest post you've made a couple of valid points, but mostly you've presented useless accusations, judgments, and attempts to poison the well.

Because you make a couple of valid points, I want to address those points, in addition to calling BS on your introductory paragraph.

The key word being played with here is Faith. The Dictionary defines Faith as:

This part of your post is a valid point. It's important to define faith and to have a single working definition of faith. It's interesting to me that you decided to use the dictionary definition of faith as opposed to the religious definition. I'll tell you what assumption I made when responding to this post, which I should have clarified. I assumed since we are on a religious centered forum and the topic was a religious topic, that the OP was using a the scriptural and/or doctrinal definition of faith. Since faith can mean several things, you are correct that it should be clearly defined. Usually when I'm uncertain about how a word is being used, I don't start accusing others of being dishonest, but rather I ask them to clarify.

So, how about we allow the OP to clarify how they were using the word faith and let's all get on the same page and let's all of us use the same definition of faith so that we don't equivocate? Even though you are accusing others in this thread of equivocating, the same could reasonably be said of your post. But, lets not get in to all of these negative accusations. The goal for me is not to win an argument or to be seen by others as being skilled in using language or to thrash my opponent, but rather it is to discuss religious topics and ultimately gain a greater understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

BTW, I'm a TBM, although being defined by a single label isn't reasonable, the designation fits. Honestly, I'm feeling like this designation of TBM is being hijacked...

-Finrock

[Ezra]

The prophet is a man. A man that is not perfect. We are not perfect and men and woman as well. Which means we don't always understand what the prophets says or intended in his message which can lead to confusion. Confusion that can then be taught to others as they understand it. Scriptures mixed with the teachings of men.

They teach it with good intentions not knowing or understanding that what they teach is in err.

The prophets might teach err according to others understanding. Or it could be they just don't understand that what they teach is true but they don't understand the intent of their message.

That's why everything that is taught by the prophets or people in general should be double checked with God. For further understanding or correction of their own misinterpretation of what they heard.

That's why we check with God on everything and don't trust in the arm of flesh.

Seems pretty simple to me. But others can take that to mean that I don't have faith in the prophet. Or the leaders of the church or bishop or so on.

It's not the case. I'm just doing as God suggested. And to me it makes perfect sense.

[investigator]

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Articles of Faith

[oneClimbs]

Is it doctrinal or scripturally sound to require faith in a prophet?

In general, faith in their words, yes. If a prophet is truly sent by God then it is up to us to discern whether or not such a person is truly sent from him or not. If you know God, you'll recognize his servants and I think the scriptures are abundant in examples of this. Whether a command is by God's own voice or the voice of his servants, it is the same.

Your question seems to also hint at what this means when it comes to church officers, especially people we sustain by common consent as recognized representatives that may act as prophets, seers, and revelators to the church, meaning the people. "Prophet" is not an office in the church or the priesthood, even though our language makes it seem that way. Joseph Smith once said, "A prophet is a prophet only when he is acting as such." and while that seems like a kind of cop out at first glance (an excuse to behave in a holy manner here and then act like a hooligan there) but I don't think that is what he meant and what he was saying is correct. Widtsoe defined a prophet as "a teacher of known truth" and the Bible Dictionary says that a prophet is typically a "forth-teller" rather than a "foreteller." So in other words, the main purpose of a prophet is to simply remind the people to do what they already know they should be doing and typically you find God sending them on this mission because the people are veering off course and up to when they are a breath away from destroying themselves.

Those who know the Lord will recognize his voice through his servants and repent, while those that are distracted by Babylon, sin, or apathy get offended and silence them through violence or by ignorance.

When such an individual is on a divine errand, they are unstoppable until they have delivered their message, this is so whatever judgements fall are just in the end.

If we are talking about church officials, while they should strive to seek the Mind of God in their efforts they are prone to error (read D&C 107) which is why they require us to "sustain" them. To "sustain" means to keep from falling. Church government is still a mortal institution and it requires each and everyone's steadfastness, forgiveness, efforts, faith, and inspiration to make it all work.

There are many, many places where we are told to "follow the prophet" (which is true for prophets, but not always true for church administrations top to bottom because nobody is always a prophet) and there are many, many places where we are warned from blindly following leaders. Brigham Young even taught:

“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful that they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwa[r]t the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give their leaders did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.” (Journal of Discourses)

There is one simple way to know. Jesus taught us to repent, to be baptized, to believe, to have faith in him, and to pray to the Father in his name and to do all things in his name, keep his commandments, and to endure to the end. If you always remember him by partaking of his flesh and blood, you are built upon his rock. He didn't ask us to do this things because the "things" would somehow protect us with magic, it is because in doing these things, we come to understand and know Jesus and in knowing him, we also know his voice.

Then we can listen.

We can have ears to hear and eyes to see and it will not be possible for such to be deceived. There is no other way if you neglect these things, you will be on sand and will soon find any other method, thought process, or theory swept away.

[rewcox]

Finrock, Investigator, TIme4175

We aren't required to have faith in a prophet. There is no scripture that says we should have faith in God's chosen prophets.

We are told repeatedly to have faith in Jesus Christ and that only by having faith in Christ can we be saved.

Prophets are there to teach us about Christ and to testify of Him. They specifically encourage us to not just take their word that God lives, but to have faith in Christ and ask in His name to find out the truth for ourselves through the power of the Holy Ghost.

I am often criticized by many, including some of you, for being the "language police", by going back and showing how what you say makes no sense whatsoever. Somehow we are supposed to figure out your "cleverness" based upon what you mean rather than what you actually say. I must admit that in following this line of logic, I have become a bit confused as to how much of this is deceptive rhetoric, and how much of it is a stupor of thought. I guess only God knows. So let's start with the premise of this thread

You have not even once shown or demonstrated how what I have said makes no sense whatsoever. You have on a number of occasions asserted that this is the case, but there is a difference between asserting something and then reasonably demonstrating it. So, you've hardly been criticized for that. What you did, though, is a well played rhetorical device. You'd make a great politician. Instead, I've called you out for attacking people's character, loaded questions, accusations, misrepresenting the facts, and unfounded judgments; all of which are essentially arguments of irrelevance.

In your latest post you've made a couple of valid points, but mostly you've presented useless accusations, judgments, and attempts to poison the well.

Because you make a couple of valid points, I want to address those points, in addition to calling BS on your introductory paragraph.

The key word being played with here is Faith. The Dictionary defines Faith as:

This part of your post is a valid point. It's important to define faith and to have a single working definition of faith. It's interesting to me that you decided to use the dictionary definition of faith as opposed to the religious definition. I'll tell you what assumption I made when responding to this post, which I should have clarified. I assumed since we are on a religious centered forum and the topic was a religious topic, that the OP was using a the scriptural and/or doctrinal definition of faith. Since faith can mean several things, you are correct that it should be clearly defined. Usually when I'm uncertain about how a word is being used, I don't start accusing others of being dishonest, but rather I ask them to clarify.

So, how about we allow the OP to clarify how they were using the word faith and let's all get on the same page and let's all of us use the same definition of faith so that we don't equivocate? Even though you are accusing others in this thread of equivocating, the same could reasonably be said of your post. But, lets not get in to all of these negative accusations. The goal for me is not to win an argument or to be seen by others as being skilled in using language or to thrash my opponent, but rather it is to discuss religious topics and ultimately gain a greater understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

BTW, I'm a TBM, although being defined by a single label isn't reasonable, the designation fits. Honestly, I'm feeling like this designation of TBM is being hijacked...

-Finrock

Since I am a real TBM, I used the definition in the Bible Dictionary for Faith, here is part:

. Faith
Faith is to hope for things which are not seen, but which are true (Heb. 11:1; Alma 32:21), and must be centered in Jesus Christ in order to produce salvation. To have faith is to have confidence in something or someone. The Lord has revealed Himself and His perfect character, possessing in their fulness all the attributes of love, knowledge, justice, mercy, unchangeableness, power, and every other needful thing, so as to enable the mind of man to place confidence in Him without reservation. Faith is kindled by hearing the testimony of those who have faith (Rom. 10:14–17). Miracles do not produce faith, but strong faith is developed by obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ; in other words, faith comes by righteousness, although miracles often confirm one’s faith.

Faith in Christ for Salvation, faith/confidence/trust for Prophets.

Here is an example of Faith in Christ, faith in a prophet, see how it works together?

17 And he (Christ) said unto Alma: Thou shalt go before this people, and I will go with thee and deliver this people out of bondage.

20 And Alma and his people departed into the wilderness; and when they had traveled all day they pitched their tents in a valley, and they called the valley Alma, because he led their way in the wilderness.

[investigator]

1 Having shown in our previous lecture “faith itself— what it is,” we shall proceed to show secondly the object on which it rests. 2 We here observe that God is the only supreme governor and independent being in whom all fullness and perfection dwells; who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient; without beginning of days or end of life; and that in him every good gift, and every good principle dwells; and that he is the Father of lights. In him the principle of faith dwells independently; and he is the object in whom the faith of all other rational and accountable beings centers for life and salvation.

LOF 2:2

[gclayjr]

5tev3,

investigator wrote:
Is it doctrinal or scripturally sound to require faith in a prophet?

In general, faith in their words, yes. If a prophet is truly sent by God then it is up to us to discern whether or not such a person is truly sent from him or not. If you know God, you'll recognize his servants and I think the scriptures are abundant in examples of this. Whether a command is by God's own voice or the voice of his servants, it is the same.

I think this is one of the clearest responses I have seen yet on this thread.

Regards,

George Clay

[oneClimbs]

1 Having shown in our previous lecture “faith itself— what it is,” we shall proceed to show secondly the object on which it rests. 2 We here observe that God is the only supreme governor and independent being in whom all fullness and perfection dwells; who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient; without beginning of days or end of life; and that in him every good gift, and every good principle dwells; and that he is the Father of lights. In him the principle of faith dwells independently; and he is the object in whom the faith of all other rational and accountable beings centers for life and salvation.

LOF 2:2

This is correct, and to consider this further in light of the original question, prophets are not typically sent to the righteous, but they are most certainly sent to warn the wicked (those that have the law, know what they should be doing but have fallen into error intentionally or unintentionally). Now, there may be many well-intentioned people that are simply led astray by bad information and examples and to these people, a prophet may be of great value as well; Alma and Amulek are great examples of this. Even someone we see as very wicked like Zeezrom can have a change of heart.

In a righteous society like Alma had, his role was to simply keep them in check: Alma 15:17 "Therefore, after Alma having established the church at Sidom, seeing a great check, yea, seeing that the people were checked as to the pride of their hearts, and began to humble themselves before God, and began to assemble themselves together at their sanctuaries to worship God before the altar, watching and praying continually, that they might be delivered from Satan, and from death, and from destruction—"

This is the main purpose of the priesthood, i.e., the order of priests established by God (see Alma 13). When wickedness begins to thrive, then you see the prophets appear. Many times they come from the outside, see Lehi, Abinadi, and Samuel (even though Nephi was already preaching among them). Coming from the outside doesn't necessarily mean they are a true prophet, see Sherem, Nehor, and Korihor.

The prophet's purpose it to point you to God and not themselves because that would be priestcraft and not priesthood. When one strays from the path, the prophet points the way back. Even a soul who loves the Lord and is clean from sin through Christ can find themselves in darkness or error, so we all have need of God's guidance, whether through his Spirit, or his servants, he will reach out. If we are true in heart, we will hear his voice either way. A true prophet does not irritate a true disciple, rather, like Amulek, they welcome them and their message and seek to help them if needed.