Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
Juliet
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3701

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Juliet »

Jeremy wrote:
Todd wrote:
Jeremy wrote:What is a "special witness"?
See D&C 107:26
So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's name. What does that mean?
Name is another word for authority, according to our stake conference with Elder Christofferson, in answer to your question.

Juliet
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3701

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Juliet »

Jeremy wrote:
Todd wrote:
Jeremy wrote:What is a "special witness"?
See D&C 107:26
So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's name. What does that mean?
Name is another word for authority, according to our stake conference with Elder Christofferson, in answer to your question.

User avatar
Jeremy
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1776
Location: Chugiak Alaska

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Jeremy »

Juliet wrote:
Jeremy wrote:So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's name. What does that mean?
Name is another word for authority, according to our stake conference with Elder Christofferson, in answer to your question.
Thats interesting. So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's authority. What does that mean?

Juliet
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3701

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Juliet »

:ymparty:
Jeremy wrote:
Juliet wrote:
Jeremy wrote:So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's name. What does that mean?
Name is another word for authority, according to our stake conference with Elder Christofferson, in answer to your question.
Thats interesting. So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's authority. What does that mean?
I don't know.

User avatar
oneClimbs
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3187
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by oneClimbs »

The Greek word "apostolos" means "a delegate; specially, an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ", D&C 62:63 states, "And as I said unto mine apostles, even so I say unto you, for you are mine apostles, even God’s high priests;" Section 107:26 states, "And they form a quorum, equal in authority to that of the Twelve special witnesses or Apostles just named."

Parley Pratt recorded the commission that he and the rest of the first apostles of the restoration were given, "Never cease striving until you have seen God face to face. Strengthen your faith; cast off your doubts, your sins, and all your unbelief; and nothing can prevent you from coming to God. Your ordination is not full and complete till God has laid his hand upon you. We require as much to qualify us as did those who have gone before us; God is the same. If the Savior in former days laid his hands upon his disciples, why not in latter days? ... Therefore call upon him in faith in mighty prayer till you prevail, for it is your duty and your privilege to bear such a testimony for yourselves. (DHC, 2:192-98.)

While practically any follower of Christ who has known the fruits of the atonement, or has seen, or spoken with him, can be a witness of him, I believe that it is the ordination in particular that makes these witnesses special, there is a particular commission they have as a delegate or ambassador. Note that when the first apostles were called they were given instruction to receive this ordination, they had not yet received it. I doubt they all did at the same time and perhaps some did not receive it, I don't know. As it was said, "God is the same" so this would be the case today so this is what I would say that it means to be a special witness.

User avatar
Jeremy
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1776
Location: Chugiak Alaska

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Jeremy »

Juliet wrote:
Jeremy wrote:Thats interesting. So an apostle is a special witness of Christ's authority. What does that mean?
I don't know.
I appreciate the honesty.

User avatar
Rose Garden
Don't ask . . .
Posts: 7031
Contact:

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Rose Garden »

Thomas wrote:
time4175 wrote:I would say it is doctrine to have faith in Jesus Christ and to receive a testimony of the Prophet of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost.

When reading the book of Mormon in 1st Nephi. Lehi, Nephi's dad had a dream. Because of Nephi's faith in Heavenly Father he asked to receive confirmation of his dad's dream. A testimony of the truthfulness of what his dad was saying.

The prophet is to lead the church and as members we are to pray for the testimony to receive confirmation of the truth and act accordingly. Jesus Christ leads the prophet. If the prophet was to say we should stop eating cherios cereal for instance we should seek confirmation by Holy Ghost. If we are not able to receive confirmation for one reason or another then act according to testimony received of prophet which would require Faith. Just my 2 cents!
Here is the thing though. If Christ wants us to stop eating Cheerios, he will tell us himself. A prophet is not needed for that. A prophet's job is to lead us to Christ. Christ takes over from that point. The prophet Nephi describes this in 2 Nephi 31-32.
2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

This is the path to salvation. It is to receive the Holy Ghost, which is the mind of Christ and the Father, which can dwell within you and follow what it tells you to do. You damn yourself if you confine yourself to listening to the prophet. Damn means blocked as in how a damn blocks water from flowing. You block yourself or damn yourself from God, if you will not do as the true prophet Nephi instructs you to do.

Faith in a prophet is misplaced and not productive. Only faith in Christ saves.

PS. I know Rewcox does not believe in heeding the advice of dead prophets. Therefore, he is free to disregard Nephi's instruction and throw his scriptures in the trash.
But, the Word of Wisdom . . .

time4175
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 8

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by time4175 »

Here is definition according to Websters Dictionary

Faith 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty
b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

Now here is the word belief from same dictionary.

Belief - 1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

Does anybody dispute these definitions of words?

My thoughts on this topic were at the time simple, so I thought. We are required to know the truth. We receive a testimony of truth through the gift of the Holy Ghost. We have the freedom to choose. We can choose to follow not asking question through prayer to know if what we are doing is truth. Or we can ask Heavenly Father through prayer if what we are taught is true. We receive a testimony of truth as I said through Holy Ghost. It is our responsibility to learn and pray.

In faith according to definition I posted. Does faith take a form of physical action? Can I have faith and not do?

To receive a testimony of the Prophet is having truth revealed to use that he is who Jesus Christ is giving the church instruction.

There is a great need for a Prophet of God's church. While it is true Jesus Christ is the only perfect person to have been on earth. The Prophet was chosen to be the instrument to lead us and cause us to seek confirmation from Holy Ghost. If this were not so we would be following false priests never knowing what was being taught was true. Which makes it so easy to lead people astray

User avatar
rewcox
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5873

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by rewcox »

time4175 wrote:Here is definition according to Websters Dictionary

Faith 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty
b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

Now here is the word belief from same dictionary.

Belief - 1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

Does anybody dispute these definitions of words?

My thoughts on this topic were at the time simple, so I thought. We are required to know the truth. We receive a testimony of truth through the gift of the Holy Ghost. We have the freedom to choose. We can choose to follow not asking question through prayer to know if what we are doing is truth. Or we can ask Heavenly Father through prayer if what we are taught is true. We receive a testimony of truth as I said through Holy Ghost. It is our responsibility to learn and pray.

In faith according to definition I posted. Does faith take a form of physical action? Can I have faith and not do?

To receive a testimony of the Prophet is having truth revealed to use that he is who Jesus Christ is giving the church instruction.

There is a great need for a Prophet of God's church. While it is true Jesus Christ is the only perfect person to have been on earth. The Prophet was chosen to be the instrument to lead us and cause us to seek confirmation from Holy Ghost. If this were not so we would be following false priests never knowing what was being taught was true. Which makes it so easy to lead people astray
I like your points.

Faith in Christ leads to Salvation. Faith in Prophets leads to Christ.

There are false prophets running around so it is important to have direction from the Holy Ghost. It is interesting that people claim direction from the Holy Ghost and end up in different places. @-)

Look at the fruit.

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by eddie »

Thomas wrote:
time4175 wrote:I would say it is doctrine to have faith in Jesus Christ and to receive a testimony of the Prophet of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost.

When reading the book of Mormon in 1st Nephi. Lehi, Nephi's dad had a dream. Because of Nephi's faith in Heavenly Father he asked to receive confirmation of his dad's dream. A testimony of the truthfulness of what his dad was saying.

The prophet is to lead the church and as members we are to pray for the testimony to receive confirmation of the truth and act accordingly. Jesus Christ leads the prophet. If the prophet was to say we should stop eating cherios cereal for instance we should seek confirmation by Holy Ghost. If we are not able to receive confirmation for one reason or another then act according to testimony received of prophet which would require Faith. Just my 2 cents!
Here is the thing though. If Christ wants us to stop eating Cheerios, he will tell us himself. A prophet is not needed for that. A prophet's job is to lead us to Christ. Christ takes over from that point. The prophet Nephi describes this in 2 Nephi 31-32.
2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

This is the path to salvation. It is to receive the Holy Ghost, which is the mind of Christ and the Father, which can dwell within you and follow what it tells you to do. You damn yourself if you confine yourself to listening to the prophet. Damn means blocked as in how a damn blocks water from flowing. You block yourself or damn yourself from God, if you will not do as the true prophet Nephi instructs you to do.

Faith in a prophet is misplaced and not productive. Only faith in Christ saves.

PS. I know Rewcox does not believe in heeding the advice of dead prophets. Therefore, he is free to disregard Nephi's instruction and throw his scriptures in the trash.
Stick with politics Thomas, God has always provided His people a Prophet.

User avatar
investigator
captain of 100
Posts: 689

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by investigator »

Stick with politics Thomas, God has always provided His people a Prophet.
God provides prophets but never requires faith in them. To require faith in the arm of the flesh is a philosophy of men.

User avatar
gclayjr
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2727
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by gclayjr »

Investigator,
God provides prophets but never requires faith in them. To require faith in the arm of the flesh is a philosophy of men.
Still playing word games huh? I would have thought that after all of the clarity offered you would know better... unless you just like to provoke,... you know like rubbing cats noses together to watch them fight afterward.

So what happened to the Jews for the last 2000+ years because they refused to listen to the prophets? What happened to the Nephites, because they refused to listen to the prophets? If all you have to do is listen to the spirit, then why does God bother to send prophets at all to warn people? Why not simply communicate to us via the Holy Spirit? Why does God even have prophets, if we are not supposed to heed their warning?

Regards,

George Clay

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Finrock »

gclayjr wrote:Investigator,
God provides prophets but never requires faith in them. To require faith in the arm of the flesh is a philosophy of men.
Still playing word games huh? I would have thought that after all of the clarity offered you would know better... unless you just like to provoke,... you know like rubbing cats noses together to watch them fight afterward.

So what happened to the Jews for the last 2000+ years because they refused to listen to the prophets? What happened to the Nephites, because they refused to listen to the prophets? If all you have to do is listen to the spirit, then why does God bother to send prophets at all to warn people? Why not simply communicate to us via the Holy Spirit? Why does God even have prophets, if we are not supposed to heed their warning?

Regards,

George Clay
Prophets are sent because people are living in sin and have forgotten and neglected God. They are sent because people refuse to enter in to God's presence themselves and would rather have someone else be their spokes person. Prophets are sent to bring back the sinners and those living in darkness because they refuse to accept and receive the light themselves.

-Finrock

User avatar
investigator
captain of 100
Posts: 689

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by investigator »

gclayjr wrote:Investigator,
God provides prophets but never requires faith in them. To require faith in the arm of the flesh is a philosophy of men.
Still playing word games huh? I would have thought that after all of the clarity offered you would know better... unless you just like to provoke,... you know like rubbing cats noses together to watch them fight afterward.

So what happened to the Jews for the last 2000+ years because they refused to listen to the prophets? What happened to the Nephites, because they refused to listen to the prophets? If all you have to do is listen to the spirit, then why does God bother to send prophets at all to warn people? Why not simply communicate to us via the Holy Spirit? Why does God even have prophets, if we are not supposed to heed their warning?

Regards,

George Clay
This is what happened to the Jews, they relied too much on the prophet.
President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel--said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church--that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls--applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall--that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves, envious towards the innocent, while they afflict the virtuous with their shafts of envy. Tpjs pg 237
Have you ever read Ezekiel 14 ? Here is just a snippet
7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him by myself:
8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Read the whole thing and ask God!

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Finrock »

eddie wrote:
Thomas wrote:
time4175 wrote:I would say it is doctrine to have faith in Jesus Christ and to receive a testimony of the Prophet of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost.

When reading the book of Mormon in 1st Nephi. Lehi, Nephi's dad had a dream. Because of Nephi's faith in Heavenly Father he asked to receive confirmation of his dad's dream. A testimony of the truthfulness of what his dad was saying.

The prophet is to lead the church and as members we are to pray for the testimony to receive confirmation of the truth and act accordingly. Jesus Christ leads the prophet. If the prophet was to say we should stop eating cherios cereal for instance we should seek confirmation by Holy Ghost. If we are not able to receive confirmation for one reason or another then act according to testimony received of prophet which would require Faith. Just my 2 cents!
Here is the thing though. If Christ wants us to stop eating Cheerios, he will tell us himself. A prophet is not needed for that. A prophet's job is to lead us to Christ. Christ takes over from that point. The prophet Nephi describes this in 2 Nephi 31-32.
2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

This is the path to salvation. It is to receive the Holy Ghost, which is the mind of Christ and the Father, which can dwell within you and follow what it tells you to do. You damn yourself if you confine yourself to listening to the prophet. Damn means blocked as in how a damn blocks water from flowing. You block yourself or damn yourself from God, if you will not do as the true prophet Nephi instructs you to do.

Faith in a prophet is misplaced and not productive. Only faith in Christ saves.

PS. I know Rewcox does not believe in heeding the advice of dead prophets. Therefore, he is free to disregard Nephi's instruction and throw his scriptures in the trash.
Stick with politics Thomas, God has always provided His people a Prophet.
God is indeed merciful. He will send a prophets, people who have decided to accept the Light and who have decided to enter in to God's presence, to help redeem and bring back those who refuse to be prophets themselves. There are many reasons why people refuse to be prophets themselves, but nothing is preventing them from doing so except their own freewill and choice.

-Finrock

User avatar
rewcox
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5873

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by rewcox »

Yo guys can live without the prophets all you want. Hmmm, throw away the scriptures because they came from prophets.

Rely on your own arm of flesh. See how far that gets you.

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Finrock »

rewcox wrote:Yo guys can live without the prophets all you want. Hmmm, throw away the scriptures because they came from prophets.

Rely on your own arm of flesh. See how far that gets you.
Prophets rely on the Spirit. The scriptures come from the Spirit. See the common theme, thread here?

Prophets are sent to redeem and bring back those who are living in darkness. Prophets invite all to come unto Christ and to accept and receive the Holy Ghost because the Prophets know from experience that it is the Holy Ghost that is giving them power and it is the Holy Ghost that is giving them authority and it is the Holy Ghost that is revealing truths to them. The Prophets are here to invite you to accept and to receive the Holy Ghost. To the extent that they want you to come on to Christ, to that extent they want you to listen to them. To the extent that they are speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost, to that extent prophets want you to heed their words. The prophets, they know where the power and the authority is at and ultimately they are inviting those who refuse to accept the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ, to accept and receive the Holy Ghost so that you may be lead to Christ. The prophets are inviting you to trust in the Spirit and not in the arm of the flesh.

Your statement is nonsense because you essentially are condemning the prophets themselves for trusting in the Spirit as opposed to trusting in some other man. Who do the prophets put their faith in? Another man? No, they put their faith in the Spirit/Christ. It is not difficult to see. You do not reject the prophets and the scriptures by accepting their invitation to accept and receive the Holy Ghost as your guide. You reject the prophets and the scriptures by refusing to accept their invitation for you to live by the Spirit and to trust in God completely. It is not hard to see this.

-Finrock

User avatar
rewcox
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5873

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by rewcox »

Finrock wrote:
rewcox wrote:Yo guys can live without the prophets all you want. Hmmm, throw away the scriptures because they came from prophets.

Rely on your own arm of flesh. See how far that gets you.
Prophets rely on the Spirit. The scriptures come from the Spirit. See the common theme, thread here?

Prophets are sent to redeem and bring back those who are living in darkness. Prophets invite all to come unto Christ and to accept and receive the Holy Ghost because the Prophets know from experience that it is the Holy Ghost that is giving them power and it is the Holy Ghost that is giving them authority and it is the Holy Ghost that is revealing truths to them. The Prophets are here to invite you to accept and to receive the Holy Ghost. To the extent that they want you to come on to Christ, to that extent they want you to listen to them. To the extent that they are speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost, to that extent prophets want you to heed their words. The prophets, they know where the power and the authority is at and ultimately they are inviting those who refuse to accept the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ, to accept and receive the Holy Ghost so that you may be lead to Christ. The prophets are inviting you to trust in the Spirit and not in the arm of the flesh.

Your statement is nonsense because you essentially are condemning the prophets themselves for trusting in the Spirit as opposed to trusting in some other man. Who do the prophets put their faith in? Another man? No, they put their faith in the Spirit/Christ. It is not difficult to see. You do not reject the prophets and the scriptures by accepting their invitation to accept and receive the Holy Ghost as your guide. You reject the prophets and the scriptures by refusing to accept their invitation for you to live by the Spirit and to trust in God completely. It is not hard to see this.

-Finrock
As George said, you guys are just playing word games.

You can be a prophet, but you have no keys. You and investigator are rejecting our living prophets for some reason. It is easy to see this.

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Finrock »

rewcox wrote:
Finrock wrote:
rewcox wrote:Yo guys can live without the prophets all you want. Hmmm, throw away the scriptures because they came from prophets.

Rely on your own arm of flesh. See how far that gets you.
Prophets rely on the Spirit. The scriptures come from the Spirit. See the common theme, thread here?

Prophets are sent to redeem and bring back those who are living in darkness. Prophets invite all to come unto Christ and to accept and receive the Holy Ghost because the Prophets know from experience that it is the Holy Ghost that is giving them power and it is the Holy Ghost that is giving them authority and it is the Holy Ghost that is revealing truths to them. The Prophets are here to invite you to accept and to receive the Holy Ghost. To the extent that they want you to come on to Christ, to that extent they want you to listen to them. To the extent that they are speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost, to that extent prophets want you to heed their words. The prophets, they know where the power and the authority is at and ultimately they are inviting those who refuse to accept the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ, to accept and receive the Holy Ghost so that you may be lead to Christ. The prophets are inviting you to trust in the Spirit and not in the arm of the flesh.

Your statement is nonsense because you essentially are condemning the prophets themselves for trusting in the Spirit as opposed to trusting in some other man. Who do the prophets put their faith in? Another man? No, they put their faith in the Spirit/Christ. It is not difficult to see. You do not reject the prophets and the scriptures by accepting their invitation to accept and receive the Holy Ghost as your guide. You reject the prophets and the scriptures by refusing to accept their invitation for you to live by the Spirit and to trust in God completely. It is not hard to see this.

-Finrock
As George said, you guys are just playing word games.

You can be a prophet, but you have no keys. You and investigator are rejecting our living prophets for some reason. It is easy to see this.
Who do the prophets put their trust in? What are the prophets inviting you to do? You are essentially saying that heeding the invitation of the prophets to live as they do by accepting and receiving the Holy Ghost as your guide, is not heeding the prophets. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Who do the prophets put their trust in? Should we not put our trust in the same being/individual that the Prophet puts his trust in? Is not the prophet ultimately inviting all to accept and to receive the Holy Ghost so that one may be lead to Jesus Christ? Isn't it really about Jesus Christ? Didn't Nephi say,
2 Nephi wrote:19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.

20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.

21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.

22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time.

24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.

25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.
You are seriously contending against a man who is saying that you ought to put your trust in the same being that all of the holy prophets trust and in the same being that all of the holy prophets have invited all men to trust since the beginning of time?

Who do all of the holy prophets put their trust in? Some man, or in God? If the prophets put their trust in God, and they don't even rely on themselves for support, why should we put our trust in them and rely on them for our support?

-Finrock

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Finrock »

rewcox wrote:
Finrock wrote:
rewcox wrote:Yo guys can live without the prophets all you want. Hmmm, throw away the scriptures because they came from prophets.

Rely on your own arm of flesh. See how far that gets you.
Prophets rely on the Spirit. The scriptures come from the Spirit. See the common theme, thread here?

Prophets are sent to redeem and bring back those who are living in darkness. Prophets invite all to come unto Christ and to accept and receive the Holy Ghost because the Prophets know from experience that it is the Holy Ghost that is giving them power and it is the Holy Ghost that is giving them authority and it is the Holy Ghost that is revealing truths to them. The Prophets are here to invite you to accept and to receive the Holy Ghost. To the extent that they want you to come on to Christ, to that extent they want you to listen to them. To the extent that they are speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost, to that extent prophets want you to heed their words. The prophets, they know where the power and the authority is at and ultimately they are inviting those who refuse to accept the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ, to accept and receive the Holy Ghost so that you may be lead to Christ. The prophets are inviting you to trust in the Spirit and not in the arm of the flesh.

Your statement is nonsense because you essentially are condemning the prophets themselves for trusting in the Spirit as opposed to trusting in some other man. Who do the prophets put their faith in? Another man? No, they put their faith in the Spirit/Christ. It is not difficult to see. You do not reject the prophets and the scriptures by accepting their invitation to accept and receive the Holy Ghost as your guide. You reject the prophets and the scriptures by refusing to accept their invitation for you to live by the Spirit and to trust in God completely. It is not hard to see this.

-Finrock
As George said, you guys are just playing word games.

You can be a prophet, but you have no keys. You and investigator are rejecting our living prophets for some reason. It is easy to see this.
I completely and fully accept the prophets of today and yesterday. I accept completely their invitation for me to put my trust in the Spirit and in Jesus Christ. I completely accept them and their message, their pleadings, their invitations for me to reject the arm of flesh and to put my trust in the God. I have, in fact, put my trust in God and He has borne me up and supported me in my trials. Because I listened and heeded the invitation of prophets today and ancient to accept Jesus Christ and to receive the Holy Ghost, I have been blessed beyond measure and I know Jesus Christ lives and His atonement is real and that He is powerful and mighty to save even the most retched of us all, even myself. I know in whom I have put my trust and it is in my God, who does sustain me and does support me. I accept and support all of the holy prophets because I know that their invitation to accept and to receive the Holy Ghost will lead all mankind who do so with a broken and a contrite spirit to Jesus Christ.

-Finrock

User avatar
gclayjr
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2727
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by gclayjr »

Investigator

I will pose the question again. Since you seem to not be able to answer it.

If all you need to do is listen to the spirit, why does God bother to send prophets?

Regards,

George Clay
Last edited by gclayjr on February 2nd, 2017, 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by Finrock »

gclayjr wrote:Finrock, Investigastor

I will pose the question again. Since you seem to not be able to answer it.

If all you need to do is listen to the spirit, why does God bother to send prophets?

Regards,

George Clay
I already answered this:
Finrock wrote:Prophets are sent because people are living in sin and have forgotten and neglected God. They are sent because people refuse to enter in to God's presence themselves and would rather have someone else be their spokes person. Prophets are sent to bring back the sinners and those living in darkness because they refuse to accept and receive the light themselves.
-Finrock

User avatar
gclayjr
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2727
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by gclayjr »

Finrock,

I get it now. Since you have received the light yourself, you no longer need a prophet. Sorry for the confusion.

Regards,

George Clay

User avatar
investigator
captain of 100
Posts: 689

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by investigator »

I do not reject living prophets as long as they point me to Christ. When they tell me they have received a revelation from God, I will ask God if that revelation was from Him. If it was from God I will heed that revelation. When they set themselves up for a light unto the world and seek not the welfare of Zion, I reject that.

Did you actually read what Ezekiel wrote about prophets. He himself being a prophet. He did not point to himself. He did not say I cannot and will not lead you astray. He did not say have faith in me. If Joseph would have thought that the words of Ezekiel were in error, would he not have corrected them in the Joseph Smith Translation. Yes, he would have, however, instead of correcting our current translation of Ezekiel, Joseph applied Ezekiel's words to The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints Joseph Smith, the prophet of this dispensation, told us we were "depending too much on the Prophet". Joseph applied the whole chapter to the church.

Joseph recommended Ezekiel's words to us. Ezekiel tells us a prophet can be deceived. Trust and have faith in God. Heed Prophets. Depending on a prophet will result in being darkened in your mind. Have faith in Christ for He is mighty to save.

User avatar
gclayjr
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2727
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Faith in God's Chosen Prophet?

Post by gclayjr »

Investigator,
I do not reject living prophets as long as they point me to Christ. When they tell me they have received a revelation from God, I will ask God if that revelation was from Him. If it was from God I will heed that revelation. When they set themselves up for a light unto the world and seek not the welfare of Zion, I reject that.
So why not bypass the middleman and just go straight to God?

Regards,

George Clay

Post Reply