Let's see if you can take a contrary opinion cordially FFA. I promise to respect what you've said and respect you and ask for the same. My comments are in red.
No bold on my part here. This is not proof that Jesus was created at the beginning of our creation. He was created before and has taught us we must be perfect the same way He became perfect:freedomforall wrote:Among all the intelligences, God, the most intelligent of all created spirits for those intelligences. Jehovah is the First born in Spirit, not the first born intelligence because as you showed intelligence was and could not be created.buffalo_girl wrote:Did you know that God the Father is my dad? And Jehovah's dad is my dad? That Jehovah was spiritually born before me, so he must be my older brother? Strange!
Also. did you know I was named after my mother?
I have no confirmation of your personal conviction.
Doctrine & Covenants 93
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
Man - as intelligence - has always been with God. Parallel continuance. I AM = ETERNAL
Section 93 - Read on...
Abraham 3:21
21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.
Bolded for emphasis. "I came down in the beginning" certainly sounds like point A could have been before this creation. Amazing scripture!
24 And there stood (a)one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
(a) TG Jesus Christ---firstborn
Bolded for epmhasis. Michael means like unto God. This was the selection of the High Priest or Steward of Earth. Hence Michael vs the Dragon and not Jesus as His scope was over all His creation. I have a thorough post on this topic in the private area of the forum
Zech. 12:1
1 The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Heb. 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Bolded for epmhasis. The father of our spirits is Elohim ... which translates to Gods .. but one step at a time here
Christ https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/chris ... g&letter=c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The anointed (Greek) or Messiah (Hebrew). Jesus, who is called Christ, is the firstborn of the Father in the spirit and the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. He is Jehovah and was foreordained to His great calling in the Grand Councils before the world was. He was born of Mary at Bethlehem, lived a sinless life, and wrought out a perfect atonement for all mankind by the shedding of His blood and His death on the cross. He rose from the grave and brought to pass the bodily resurrection of every living thing and the salvation and exaltation of the faithful.
He is the greatest Being to be born on this earth—the perfect example—and all religious things should be done in His name. He is Lord of lords, King of kings, the Creator, the Savior, the God of the whole earth, the Captain of our salvation, the Bright and Morning Star. He is in all things, above all things, through all things, and round about all things; He is Alpha and Omega, the first and the last; His name is above every name and is the only name under heaven by which we can be saved.
He will come again in power and glory to dwell on the earth and will stand as Judge of all mankind at the last day. See also Anointed One; Christ, names of; Jesus.
Bolded for epmhasis. Firstly, this is not scripture. Secondly, It would have been easy to say "the first born spirit of the Father." "In the spirit" sounds a lot like being born spiritually - perhaps an ordinance similar to baptism but for the chosen Savior who is brought into a new creation.
Pay close attention to this one:
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Revelation 3
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Joseph Smith King Follet Sermon
I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease forever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.
What is grace? Who is the ONLY being who offers grace in a creation?
D&C 93
11 And I, John, bear record that I beheld his glory, as the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us.
12 And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace;
13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;
14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first.
15 And I, John, bear record, and lo, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove, and sat upon him, and there came a voice out of heaven saying: This is my beloved Son.
16 And I, John, bear record that he received a fulness of the glory of the Father;
17 And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him.
18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.
19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.
20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.
Before Jesus Atonement and Resurrection:
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
After Jesus' Atonement and Resurrection:
3 Nephi 12:48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.
Note the added language. Also, note that Christ is commanding us to be perfect even as He or Father is perfect. Well how did they become perfect? How does D&C 93 tell us to become perfect? If it's the same way, then the Lord Jesus Christ entered this creation from a past creation the same way we must do so moving forward.
Edit: The scripture above, John 20:17 is genuinely exciting. Read it again after digesting my post here. If you follow what I'm saying - that Jesus may be eldest because he has gone from grace (atonement) to grace (atonement) .. then the Elohim (translates to Gods) who organized His spirit from intelligence may be different from your Elohim. Catch my drift? Now read this again:
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
It is simply amazing how pearls are hidden in plain sight! Also re-read D&C 93: 18 & 19
18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.
19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.
It's almost as if He is saying, "Gee I wish I could spell this out even more plainly ... but you will have to be faithful to these sayings ... (i.e. not mock or contend with others who want to discuss these things) so you may understand who and what you are worshiping ... an exalted man who was a man once like yourself...and that you must go through the exact same process .. grace to grace ... exaltation to exaltation.
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