Is Jesus our elder brother?

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freedomforall
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Re: Is Jesus our elder brother?

Post by freedomforall »

butterfly wrote: February 26th, 2017, 9:48 pm
Finrock wrote: February 12th, 2017, 8:30 am

The LoF also states that the Son was made in the express image and likeness of the Father.

Would that not then mean the Jesus looks like His Father and since we are begotten in the image of the Son, we must look like the Father as well?

How do you understand that portion. It right after the part you quoted earlier?

-Finrock
So technically speaking, LoF doesn't say that the Son was made in the express image of the Father. It says that, initially, He was in the bosom of the Father. Then it says that, because the Savior overcame the world, He was then transformed into the express image and likeness of the Father.

"The Son...- he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father;...and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father - possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit.
The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same widsom, glory, power and fulness. Filling all in all- the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory, and power of the Father - possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father - being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or in other words, the Spirit of the Father.

So the Son is now in the express image of the Father because, as a result of having overcome, He received a fulness of the glory of the Father. We know Jesus didn't received a fulness at first (D&C 93:11-19).
Once Jesus did receive a fulness, He then became Jesus the Christ. To become a Christ is to possess all the fulness of the Father and to be in the express image and likeness of the Father.
LoF explains that to receive a fulness and be in the image of the Father means that you now possess the same mind, wisdom, glory, and power that the Father does. This is also called "the Spirit of the Father."

When Jesus became a Christ, He was transformed into the express image of the Father, meaning they now shared the same mind and spirit. LoF says that this process is the same for us, too.

"All those who keep His commandments shall become joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image of likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory.

You're in the image of the Son when you are physically born to earth and take upon flesh. This doesn't mean you look exactly like Jesus does, just that you have a physical body like He does.

You're in the image of the Father when you are spiritually born of God and progress to a celestial state. This is not referring to how your physical body looks, but how your spirit body works - it's just like the Father's, in His express image and likeness, filling all in all.
Jesus and Christ are one in the same person from birth. The Father calls him Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten of the Father. These two = Father and Son. Likewise, Jehovah/Spirit and Jesus Christ/Flesh = Father and Son also. See: Mosiah 15:1-5

We, if righteous, keeping the commandments and hungering and thirsting after righteousness,and repenting often can become heirs with Christ in the Father's kingdom, rendering us Gods.

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Doctrine and Covenants 84:38
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Is Jesus our elder brother?

Post by freedomforall »

To the OP, does a stink bug, stink?
Does a firefly, fly?
Does a cow, moo?
Do some people follow after evil?

butterfly
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1004

Re: Is Jesus our elder brother?

Post by butterfly »

freedomforall wrote: February 26th, 2017, 10:10 pm
Jesus and Christ are one in the same person from birth. The Father calls him Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten of the Father. These two = Father and Son. Likewise, Jehovah/Spirit and Jesus Christ/Flesh = Father and Son also. See: Mosiah 15:1-5

We, if righteous, keeping the commandments and hungering and thirsting after righteousness,and repenting often can become heirs with Christ in the Father's kingdom, rendering us Gods.

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Doctrine and Covenants 84:38
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.
LOL, you're new avatar is somewhat disturbing :p

I think we agree on most of what you've said here, except that I believe that "Christ" is a title, kind of like saying "King" or "Queen." So, while Jesus was foreordained to complete His mission as Savior in the capacity of a Christ, He still had to descend below all things in this earthly existence and then rise above them all during His mortal estate. He had to show us how to become "christs", too.

If He had been born into mortality with the level of Christ already obtained, then He wouldn't have been descending below all things.


8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
He went from grace to grace, just like we do


9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Jesus went through the process of becoming perfect, of becoming a Christ, and we can, too

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Is Jesus our elder brother?

Post by freedomforall »

butterfly wrote: February 26th, 2017, 11:00 pm
freedomforall wrote: February 26th, 2017, 10:10 pm
Jesus and Christ are one in the same person from birth. The Father calls him Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten of the Father. These two = Father and Son. Likewise, Jehovah/Spirit and Jesus Christ/Flesh = Father and Son also. See: Mosiah 15:1-5

We, if righteous, keeping the commandments and hungering and thirsting after righteousness,and repenting often can become heirs with Christ in the Father's kingdom, rendering us Gods.

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Doctrine and Covenants 84:38
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.
LOL, you're new avatar is somewhat disturbing :p

I think we agree on most of what you've said here, except that I believe that "Christ" is a title, kind of like saying "King" or "Queen." So, while Jesus was foreordained to complete His mission as Savior in the capacity of a Christ, He still had to descend below all things in this earthly existence and then rise above them all during His mortal estate. He had to show us how to become "christs", too.

If He had been born into mortality with the level of Christ already obtained, then He wouldn't have been descending below all things.


8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
He went from grace to grace, just like we do


9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Jesus went through the process of becoming perfect, of becoming a Christ, and we can, too
But doesn't the word Christ mean "the Anointed One?" And didn't the Father call him Christ even before coming to earth?

You may be correct, though.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Is Jesus our elder brother?

Post by freedomforall »

freedomforall wrote:LOL, you're new avatar is somewhat disturbing
Father.jpg
Father.jpg (16.71 KiB) Viewed 527 times
AND
Son.jpg
Son.jpg (16.46 KiB) Viewed 527 times
:D @-)

butterfly
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1004

Re: Is Jesus our elder brother?

Post by butterfly »

freedomforall wrote: February 26th, 2017, 11:23 pm
freedomforall wrote:LOL, you're new avatar is somewhat disturbing
Father.jpg

AND

Son.jpg
:D @-)
Uuggg. Now your avatar doesnt look so bad in comparison

onefour1
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Posts: 1596

Re: Is Jesus our elder brother?

Post by onefour1 »

Here is an interesting verse:

Hebrews 1:6
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

"Firstbegotten" as opposed to "Only Begotten" seems to imply that there may have been others who were second, third, fourth, ... etc., etc. I also find the verse interesting how it is worded, "bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world".
Last edited by onefour1 on March 4th, 2017, 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

onefour1
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1596

Re: Is Jesus our elder brother?

Post by onefour1 »

More verses:

Firstborn — Bible Dictionary
Jesus is the firstborn of the spirit children of our Heavenly Father, the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh, and the first to rise from the dead in the Resurrection, “that in all things he might have the preeminence” (Col. 1:13–18).

Colossians 1:13-18
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

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