Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
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rewcox
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by rewcox »

Finrock wrote:
rewcox wrote:
Finrock wrote:I haven't read the blog, so I'm not speaking about its truth value, but you do recognize that just because you assert that something is false does not make it so? Right?

-Finrock
And just because you assert something, does not make it right or truth.

For example, the Amonhies asserted that all who have the testimony of Christ are prophets, and other scriptures to back it up. Because George did not agree, they concluded Jesus would not know George, and that George would go to the Telestial Kingdom.

Denver Snuffer gave 10 talks over a year, complete with explanations on scriptures, yet at each talk he always said something negative about the church and leaders. At the 10th talk, the wheels came off his bus and went bizarrow.

The Adversary also uses the spirit. Whispers in the ears, etc. Jesus knows this, so he said you would know false prophets by their fruit.

Whenever the fruit appears, you can tell if it has been consistent with the communication of the Spirit.
Oh, I know that. That is why I don't just assert things. That is why you've seen me make several reasoned posts supporting my assertions. I just wanted to be sure that you weren't delusional thinking that your proclamations are the measure of what is truth and error.

You've made a false statement which I can demonstrate factually because we have the record available. It is false that Amonhi concluded that Jesus would not know George because George did not agree with Amonhi. You can disagree without mischaracterizing what others have said.

This is irrelevant to the point at hand, but you are obsessed with Denver Snuffer and the guilt by association fallacy. I'm guessing that you have been hurt by this man. I'm sorry for your pain and suffering in regards to him, because you project a lot. There truly are false prophets. But, because a false prophet did something or said something is not a good reason to discount what others are saying.

Also, your claim that the adversary also uses "the" spirit makes absolute no sense to me. It seems that you are claiming that we can't rely on the Holy Ghost, but then you come back later and state that we can measure if the fruit is consistent with the communication of the Spirit. What are you saying here? What does that mean to you?

-Finrock
Show us what that Mean Amonhies said.

I only discount false ones, there are a bunch running round here.

Here is a good one for you. Oh How Great the Plan of Our God

Thomas
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by Thomas »

Monson can only derive his authority from the foundation of Joseph Smith. If you want to say, Joseph Smith was a false prophet, than the church is false as well. That would make Monson a false prophet.

You cannot discard Joseph Smith without discarding the whole church. Joseph Smith must retain the preeminent spot or you have nothing but falsehoods. No man can build on his own foundation.

Throw out the Lectures on Faith, might as well throw out the whole church.

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rewcox
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by rewcox »

Thomas wrote:Monson can only derive his authority from the foundation of Joseph Smith. If you want to say, Joseph Smith was a false prophet, than the church is false as well. That would make Monson a false prophet.

You cannot discard Joseph Smith without discarding the whole church. Joseph Smith must retain the preeminent spot or you have nothing but falsehoods. No man can build on his own foundation.

Throw out the Lectures on Faith, might as well throw out the whole church.
You guys are so messed up.

Joseph Smith was/is a great prophet. He finished his mission, Brigham Young was next. BY made it possible for you to be here.

Thomas Monson is the current prophet today.

You guys decided to stop at Joseph Smith, that's your problem.

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investigator
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by investigator »

rewcox wrote:
Thomas wrote:Monson can only derive his authority from the foundation of Joseph Smith. If you want to say, Joseph Smith was a false prophet, than the church is false as well. That would make Monson a false prophet.

You cannot discard Joseph Smith without discarding the whole church. Joseph Smith must retain the preeminent spot or you have nothing but falsehoods. No man can build on his own foundation.

Throw out the Lectures on Faith, might as well throw out the whole church.
You guys are so messed up.

Joseph Smith was/is a great prophet. He finished his mission, Brigham Young was next. BY made it possible for you to be here.

Thomas Monson is the current prophet today.

You guys decided to stop at Joseph Smith, that's your problem.
Or is it you rewcox, who has the problem of rejecting the words of the Lord who has commanded you to receive and heed the teachings of Joseph Smith? Please show me the revelations where the Lord endorses and commands us to heed the words of any other person in the same manner that He has Joseph Smith.

"I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments." (D&C 1:17)

"Behold, there shall be a record kept among you; and in it thou shalt be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ, an elder of the church through the will of God the Father, and the grace of your Lord Jesus Christ." (D&C 21:1)

"Thou wast called and chosen to write the Book of Mormon, and to my ministry...And thou shalt continue in calling upon God in my name, and writing the things which shall be given thee by the Comforter, and expounding all scriptures unto the church." (D&C 24:1,5)

"No one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., for he receiveth them even as Moses." (D&C 28:2)

"Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth..." (D&C 21:4&5)

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rewcox
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by rewcox »

investigator wrote:
rewcox wrote:
Thomas wrote:Monson can only derive his authority from the foundation of Joseph Smith. If you want to say, Joseph Smith was a false prophet, than the church is false as well. That would make Monson a false prophet.

You cannot discard Joseph Smith without discarding the whole church. Joseph Smith must retain the preeminent spot or you have nothing but falsehoods. No man can build on his own foundation.

Throw out the Lectures on Faith, might as well throw out the whole church.
You guys are so messed up.

Joseph Smith was/is a great prophet. He finished his mission, Brigham Young was next. BY made it possible for you to be here.

Thomas Monson is the current prophet today.

You guys decided to stop at Joseph Smith, that's your problem.
Or is it you rewcox, who has the problem of rejecting the words of the Lord who has commanded you to receive and heed the teachings of Joseph Smith? Please show me the revelations where the Lord endorses and commands us to heed the words of any other person in the same manner that He has Joseph Smith.

"I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments." (D&C 1:17)

"Behold, there shall be a record kept among you; and in it thou shalt be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ, an elder of the church through the will of God the Father, and the grace of your Lord Jesus Christ." (D&C 21:1)

"Thou wast called and chosen to write the Book of Mormon, and to my ministry...And thou shalt continue in calling upon God in my name, and writing the things which shall be given thee by the Comforter, and expounding all scriptures unto the church." (D&C 24:1,5)

"No one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., for he receiveth them even as Moses." (D&C 28:2)

"Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth..." (D&C 21:4&5)
You will be happy to know that in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Sunday School study this year is the Doctrine and Covenants.

Also, Nephi gave us a clue on understanding scriptures: liken them to ourselves.

So: Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth..." (D&C 21:4&5)

Today, this means give heed to Thomas Monson.

Finrock
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by Finrock »

rewcox wrote:
Thomas wrote:Monson can only derive his authority from the foundation of Joseph Smith. If you want to say, Joseph Smith was a false prophet, than the church is false as well. That would make Monson a false prophet.

You cannot discard Joseph Smith without discarding the whole church. Joseph Smith must retain the preeminent spot or you have nothing but falsehoods. No man can build on his own foundation.

Throw out the Lectures on Faith, might as well throw out the whole church.
You guys are so messed up.

Joseph Smith was/is a great prophet. He finished his mission, Brigham Young was next. BY made it possible for you to be here.

Thomas Monson is the current prophet today.

You guys decided to stop at Joseph Smith, that's your problem.
James wrote:Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh (James 3:9–12).
Didier wrote:The Lord’s people must be distinguished among other nations not only by their calling and behavior, but also by the purity of their language. In Deuteronomy we read: “For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth” (Deut. 7:6).
We can't claim to be sheep and say that we love and praise God but then turn around and curse our brothers and sisters. How you communicate matters, rewcox. How you treat your fellow man, matters. A good fountain does not bring forth bitter water.
Didier wrote:Words are a form of personal expression. They differentiate us as well as fingerprints do. They reflect what kind of person we are, and tell of our background, and depict our way of life. They describe our thinking as well as our inner feelings.
-Finrock

Source: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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rewcox
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by rewcox »

Finrock wrote:We can't claim to be sheep and say that we love and praise God but then turn around and curse our brothers and sisters. How you communicate matters, rewcox. How you treat your fellow man, matters. A good fountain does not bring forth bitter water.

-Finrock
So you consider a good fountain is the Amonhies telling George that Christ will say He does not know George, and that George is going to the Telestial Kingdom?

Or that 7 women will conclude a man can have the priesthood?

You don't answer these questions do you?

Finrock
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Posts: 4426

Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by Finrock »

rewcox wrote:
Finrock wrote:We can't claim to be sheep and say that we love and praise God but then turn around and curse our brothers and sisters. How you communicate matters, rewcox. How you treat your fellow man, matters. A good fountain does not bring forth bitter water.

-Finrock
So you consider a good fountain is the Amonhies telling George that Christ will say He does not know George, and that George is going to the Telestial Kingdom?

Or that 7 women will conclude a man can have the priesthood?

You don't answer these questions do you?
You can't be a disciple of Christ and treat other unfairly. If you are a good fountain, then you should bring forth sweet water. Those questions are irrelevant to you and to my posts to you. I'm speaking about your communication and the words that come out of your mouth.

How you communicate matters. What words you use matters. What words we use and how we communicate with others reveals who we are as people. Over and over again you use unethical tactics in your communication. You ignore valid and reasonable posts. You accuse and judge. You minimize and belittle. You mock. These words that you present on this forum, are your words. They are coming from your heart and your mind. You say something about another person or you belittle them or their remarks, thinking that you are speaking about them or revealing them. But, instead, you are speaking about yourself and revealing what is truly on the inside.

George was doing the same thing. It was unethical and wrong. The issue here is that you perceive others as an enemy and because you have that perception, you actually think that it makes it okay to not consider their words or to reasonably discuss and give an ear. You are mistaken in this, however. It is pointless to discuss with you because you don't discuss. You don't reason. This is just what happens. It isn't me making things up. Its what has actually taken place, and we can see it time and again in your posts and how you treat and talk and communicate with others. You do all of these things because you have judged others, myself included, to be apostate or evil or enemies. Essentially you are trying to prevent others from expressing their ideas and thoughts because you disagree with it and you are willing to do it with bitterness. I know how to judge between what is good and what is evil. Goodness doesn't treat others with disrespect. Goodness is willing to reason and to discuss. Goodness doesn't attack others or call them names, etc.

Goodness listens to others. Goodness considers others words. This doesn't mean that you have to accept everything someone says, but Goodness certainly does not troll others or attempt to filibuster and discourage honest and sincere dialogue. There is a right way and a wrong way to talk about things and to disagree. The principles I keep pointing out such as intellectual courage, empathy, and honesty, are actually good and they form the basis and the foundation for civilized discourse and discussion.

If you were at peace with yourself, you would have not need to spend so much time trying to tell others that they are going to hell, or that they are apostate, or that they are messed up, or that they are anything but honest and sincere individuals who happen to have a different perspective than you and have had different experiences in life that have taught them different ideas. I have extensively invited you to disagree with me but do so ethically and reasonably. I have invited you to show me how my ideas are wrong by demonstrating why my premises are incorrect or why my conclusion doesn't follow from my premises. Every time I have backed up my words and provided reasons for why I believe something, you essentially ignore the posts and the word and fall back to calling me names or trying to belittle me or what I have said. That behavior that you are displaying towards me is not good. You can't make any excuse that will make it good and it seems that you are trying to make it okay by judging me and accusing me of being an enemy to your beliefs and/or to your religion. I invite you and I plead with you that if you disagree with what I am saying, please extend to me the respect of first making sure you understand what it is that I am saying and then once you know exactly what I mean and you still disagree, demonstrate through reason and through ethical discourse why and how you disagree. I promise you, just as I have promised before, that I will always consider and take in to account any well reasoned response that has meat to it. It is what I'm here for. If I am in error or if I am truly the evil monster apostate that you claim that I am, then this will be exposed by your reasonable refutations to my arguments. My arguments will fall apart if you can demonstrate who my logic and/or reason doesn't follow. And, if I am not an ethical person and I refuse to accept something that is clearly correct because reason and logic would dictate it, then you will know who I am. Also, I invite you to speak by the power of the Holy Ghost so that we can both be edified and be uplifted. If I am in actuality in error, I in actuality want to be made aware of this error. If the Spirit witnesses something to me because you are speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost, that will be the most convincing manner of persuading me to change my views. Further, as you engage with me and others in this manner, you will prove and demonstrate your faith and religion and you will be more successful and convincing others that Denver Snuffer or some other person who might be a false prophet is a false prophet.

At the same token, have intellectual humility, and be prepared to admit when you are wrong because reason and logic dictate that you do. When I present a point that you agree with, let me know. Let others know that you agree with them. If you can't refute what I'm saying through reasonable and ethical means, then accept it. You might be in error and you might learn something from me and from others.

The Apostles of the Church, those that I sustain, teach these very principles that I am talking about right now. They too have invited us to engage with others in a respectful and in a reasonable way. In particular, the Apostles have invited us to not be contentious online, to show respect, and to let all of our communications come from a place of love and mutual respect for others. You're going to have to surrender the judging and the accusing. You're just going to have to give that up if you actually want to be on the side of good.

-Finrock

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rewcox
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by rewcox »

Finrock wrote:George was doing the same thing. It was unethical and wrong.

The Apostles of the Church, those that I sustain, teach these very principles that I am talking about right now.

-Finrock
You are welcome to present your beliefs however you like. If you present things against the Church and leaders, you will receive feedback.

George wasn't unethical or wrong. The Amonhies were. Remember the Amonhies claim C&E, multiple visits with Christ, Celestial Kingdom.

This is a Pro-LDS forum, correct?

Do you sustain all or just some of the Apostles?

Finrock
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by Finrock »

rewcox wrote:
Finrock wrote:George was doing the same thing. It was unethical and wrong.

The Apostles of the Church, those that I sustain, teach these very principles that I am talking about right now.

-Finrock
You are welcome to present your beliefs however you like. If you present things against the Church and leaders, you will receive feedback.

George wasn't unethical or wrong. The Amonhies were. Remember the Amonhies claim C&E, multiple visits with Christ, Celestial Kingdom.

This is a Pro-LDS forum, correct?

Do you sustain all or just some of the Apostles?
There was more to my posts than those two sentences. George was using the same tactics that you are using. If you are not discussing with others using the principles of intellectual honesty, courage, and empathy, then what you are doing is unethical and wrong. This applies to any person at any time. Accusing, judging, name calling, ignoring the content, belittling, are all unethical and wrong. If any person is using those things while interacting with others, it is unethical and wrong. It doesn't matter who's side they are on or what faith they believe in or who they sustain.

The excuse that you are a defending faith or that you are a soldier for the Church, doesn't justify treating others disrespectfully. You have no excuse to NOT engage in reasonable and ethical discourse. You can defend the Church and the leaders by listening to others, making sure you understand them, and responding to them through reason and logic using the principles of intellectual courage, honesty, and empathy.

A true believing Mormon is dedicated to the good. It seems the term TBM has been hijacked by people who think that it's okay to abandon reason and the moral high ground when they perceive their faith is being attacked. I'm a TBM, because a true believing Mormon believes in the principles of intellectual courage, honesty, and empathy.

Your questions, again, are irrelevant. If you will only treat me respectfully if I am on your side, that is unethical. If you will only consider and try to understand me because I agree with your religious beliefs, that is unethical.

Receiving feedback is not the issue. It is how we communicate and discuss with others. Attacking a person, accusing them, and judging them is wrong. You can't justify it by saying this is a pro-LDS site.

You trying to test my loyalty is unethical because it is irrelevant to what I have said. What I have said is either true or it is false but it is not because I sustain the Apostles or because I believe the Church is true. I predict that no matter what declaration I make, because I've made the same declarations before, you will judge and accuse me as you see fit because you don't like something that I say. That is the crux of your unethical behavior. You are using these irrelevant tests to measure the truth of a person's words, rather than dealing with the content. Anyone, be that you or George, or anyone, who does that is unethical and wrong.

You have no excuse. I'm a supporter of the Church. I'm a TBM. I sustain all of our leaders all of the time. Take this sentence and write it down somewhere: Finrock is a TBM who sustains all of his leaders in the Church all of the time.

Now, how about you deal with the rest of the content of my post? How do you feel about us engaging with others with intellectual courage, empathy, and honesty? Do you agree or disagree that we should always respect others and consider their words sincerely and honestly? Do you believe that it is ethical and right for us to use reason and logic in our discourse? Do you believe that as TBMs we are held to a higher standard in how we communicate and treat others and the words that we use?

-Finrock

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rewcox
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by rewcox »

Finrock wrote:
rewcox wrote:
Finrock wrote:George was doing the same thing. It was unethical and wrong.

The Apostles of the Church, those that I sustain, teach these very principles that I am talking about right now.

-Finrock
You are welcome to present your beliefs however you like. If you present things against the Church and leaders, you will receive feedback.

George wasn't unethical or wrong. The Amonhies were. Remember the Amonhies claim C&E, multiple visits with Christ, Celestial Kingdom.

This is a Pro-LDS forum, correct?

Do you sustain all or just some of the Apostles?
There was more to my posts than those two sentences. George was using the same tactics that you are using. If you are not discussing with others using the principles of intellectual honesty, courage, and empathy, then what you are doing is unethical and wrong. This applies to any person at any time. Accusing, judging, name calling, ignoring the content, belittling, are all unethical and wrong. If any person is using those things while interacting with others, it is unethical and wrong. It doesn't matter who's side they are on or what faith they believe in or who they sustain.

The excuse that you are a defending faith or that you are a soldier for the Church, doesn't justify treating others disrespectfully. You have no excuse to NOT engage in reasonable and ethical discourse. You can defend the Church and the leaders by listening to others, making sure you understand them, and responding to them through reason and logic using the principles of intellectual courage, honesty, and empathy.

A true believing Mormon is dedicated to the good. It seems the term TBM has been hijacked by people who think that it's okay to abandon reason and the moral high ground when they perceive their faith is being attacked. I'm a TBM, because a true believing Mormon believes in the principles of intellectual courage, honesty, and empathy.

Your questions, again, are irrelevant. If you will only treat me respectfully if I am on your side, that is unethical. If you will only consider and try to understand me because I agree with your religious beliefs, that is unethical.

Receiving feedback is not the issue. It is how we communicate and discuss with others. Attacking a person, accusing them, and judging them is wrong. You can't justify it by saying this is a pro-LDS site.

You trying to test my loyalty is unethical because it is irrelevant to what I have said. What I have said is either true or it is false but it is not because I sustain the Apostles or because I believe the Church is true. I predict that no matter what declaration I make, because I've made the same declarations before, you will judge and accuse me as you see fit because you don't like something that I say. That is the crux of your unethical behavior. You are using these irrelevant tests to measure the truth of a person's words, rather than dealing with the content. Anyone, be that you or George, or anyone, who does that is unethical and wrong.

You have no excuse. I'm a supporter of the Church. I'm a TBM. I sustain all of our leaders all of the time. Take this sentence and write it down somewhere: Finrock is a TBM who sustains all of his leaders in the Church all of the time.

Now, how about you deal with the rest of the content of my post? How do you feel about us engaging with others with intellectual courage, empathy, and honesty? Do you agree or disagree that we should always respect others and consider their words sincerely and honestly? Do you believe that it is ethical and right for us to use reason and logic in our discourse? Do you believe that as TBMs we are held to a higher standard in how we communicate and treat others and the words that we use?

-Finrock
What I consider shady, maybe unethical, is the multiple people (Amonhies) posting under 1 ID, and sending people to the telestial kingdom.

In this internet world, we have no idea who is posting, until we see what they post about. Some time back there were many discussions about the Denver Snuffer scenario, in fact there was a sub-forum here all about it.

I was thrown out of that sub-forum for expressing different opinion. Yet the DSers would swoop out of the HG forum expressing their different opinion without any consequence.

So express what you like, hopefully good. That's another thing about the Amonhies, with their claims, you would think they could talk about something good.

After George made them mad, what did they post on? Brigham Young and blood atonement. A solid anti-mormon sentiment.

So Finrock, post away. If you get out of line, freedomforall or Mark will say something.

Finrock
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by Finrock »

rewcox wrote:What I consider shady, maybe unethical, is the multiple people (Amonhies) posting under 1 ID, and sending people to the telestial kingdom.
I haven't had time to respond to that post yet, and so you don't know this yet, but, to me it seems manipulative. I agree it is shady.
rewcox wrote:In this internet world, we have no idea who is posting, until we see what they post about.


We still don't know. It takes some time to get to know someone. We should focus on the content of their posts and remember who we are and what principles ought to drive our life and decisions. The internet does not negate our commitment to treating all with respect and utilizing the principles of good, fair, and empathetic discourse.
rewcox wrote:Some time back there were many discussions about the Denver Snuffer scenario, in fact there was a sub-forum here all about it.

I was thrown out of that sub-forum for expressing different opinion. Yet the DSers would swoop out of the HG forum expressing their different opinion without any consequence.
It happens all of the time. It's the phenomenon of sociocentrism. Sociocentrism "...revolve around a person's belief that someone's social or ethnic group is superior to others. Sociocentrism also means putting a group's needs and concerns ahead of someone's personal needs [or another groups needs and concerns]" (https://www.reference.com/world-view/so ... 030034c640" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). It is the cause or at the root of all the strife, contention, and warfare that you find in the Book of Ether. It is at the root of all sorts of bloodshed and violence through-out history.

Christ is against such things. We should recognize and apply everlasting principles of good, always and across the board, and in all situations, regardless of group affiliation. For in reality, we are all just one group, children of Heavenly Father.

You should have been treated fairly and with respect.
rewcox wrote:So express what you like, hopefully good. That's another thing about the Amonhies, with their claims, you would think they could talk about something good.
Since you are focusing on Amonhi here, I believe a lot of good has been spoken by Amonhi. If something is true, no matter how painful it might be or how poorly it may reflect on our group, it is good. Again, if it is true, it is good.
rewcox wrote:After George made them mad, what did they post on? Brigham Young and blood atonement. A solid anti-mormon sentiment.
Realistically, you are assuming and speculating that he was mad and that this is why he created that post. Judge others how you would want to be judge. One of the ABC's of marriage is also one of the ABC's of online communication: Believe the best of others.
rewcox wrote:So Finrock, post away. If you get out of line, freedomforall or Mark will say something.
Whatever... :)

-Finrock

Suntumbler
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by Suntumbler »

The answer is simple. Does it testify of Christ and bring further light and truth into your life? Confirm all things with the Holy Ghost, you can ask people on here but until you go to the Lord directly you won't find a solid confirmation. If you want to know something, ask Him. (in His spirit of peace and love, sot that he may connect with you). I follow the blog as well, one reason he prefers to stay anonymous is because he doesn't want followers to his name, he wants people to take the message directly to God; which is understandable. He's actually not a big Remnant follower, his experiences push against Denver Snuffer on several topics like DS's latest translation of St. John.

Joseph Smith often spoke about the fallibility of men, he himself repented often and publicly, asking for forgiveness when something was wrong. " Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men;

4 For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him."

So if a man encourages you to know God directly and not only that but to see Him, what is the red flag? How can that damn you from the Lord? Yes, you will be tested, the adversary will masquerade as God at times, but we must all walk through that fire to Christ if we are to know His Spirit from deceptive spirits. We must all walk our own path to the Lord if we are to become reliant upon His Spirit personally in all things that we do. The original hebrew meaning for Worship is something like "consistent relationship with God". A consistent connection to the Lord within your own heart, not through the medium of another. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3....

The modern LDS like to think of the words of men (lds presidents) as definitive as the Holy Ghost, which misses the mark. We must not rely upon the arm of flesh or your Salvation, The Lord wants us each to know Him directly, prophets simply share messages and gather people to pierce the veil themselves.



"The Two Comforters, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1938), 149-151.

There are two Comforters spoken of. One is the Holy Ghost, the same as given on the day of Pentecost, and that all Saints receive after faith, repentance, and baptism. This first Comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile, though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body; for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence.

The Second Comforter

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted.

When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.

Note the 16, 17, 18, 21, 23 verses-

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions--Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.

The Spirit of Revelation

The Spirit of Revelation is in connection with these blessings. A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.,) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.

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truthseekerDave
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by truthseekerDave »

I was very excited to read about his process of seeking the 2nd Comforter.

Then I began exploring his website and other books. More and more strange things appeared: not paying tithing and then losing a temple recommend (why not pay your tithing, keep a current temple recommend AND give gifts to the needy??); from his book on Temporal Dispensations, he claims Joseph Smith had thick red brown hair (it was more of a light brown flaxen color); that Jospeph never practiced polygamy; that Fanny Alger never was a wife of Joseph; that monogamy is the true standard; that Brigham changed and embellished the endowment, etc.

The deeper I dig, the more I am disturbed that I read the writings of a deceiver.

BackBlast
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Posts: 570

Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by BackBlast »

I do try to be a believing sort, and I gave this blog a try. I believe my participation here has shown that I'm generally supportive of people seeking the face of our Lord. The resulting experiences in my life has prompted me to offer a caution to others about this blog. Honestly this is difficult for me to post, but I believe it true and this is the best place to put it.

I felt strongly enough about my experience I wrote a more detailed critique here https://purerevelationscheck.wordpress.com/

Essentially this one appears to be using subtle means to set himself up among those who seek such things. My impression from my spiritual experiences is that he is spiritually dangerous. These are my thoughts.

diligently seeking
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Posts: 1272

Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by diligently seeking »

BackBlast wrote: August 4th, 2017, 1:33 pm I do try to be a believing sort, and I gave this blog a try. I believe my participation here has shown that I'm generally supportive of people seeking the face of our Lord. The resulting experiences in my life has prompted me to offer a caution to others about this blog. Honestly this is difficult for me to post, but I believe it true and this is the best place to put it.

I felt strongly enough about my experience I wrote a more detailed critique here https://purerevelationscheck.wordpress.com/

Essentially this one appears to be using subtle means to set himself up among those who seek such things. My impression from my spiritual experiences is that he is spiritually dangerous. These are my thoughts.
B.B.--- No Doubt purerevelations experience / information is over the top / much out of the norm in regards to our modern LDS narrative. As you share your negative sentiments about p.r. fellow / info-- so ( many could argue) were the sentiments of those in the church during the time of Samuel the lamanite putting himself on the wall and declaring God's words... Also, I would be curious to learn about this deceiving spirit that came upon you and why you attributed it to purerevelation information. Multiple times in my life Satan has tried to seize upon me when I was on the cusp of learning new and soon-to-be spiritually ascending truths. If I was not able to discern the dark underworld's intents-- my fear in these moments of attack could have caused me to go the opposite direction back to comfortable regular impulses instead of pushing through and receiving God's will in my life... God has allowed there to be opposing forces almost to the same degree of spiritual affirming forces in our lives as we move forward and strip ourselves through repentance of unbelief.... In regards to the Joseph Smith quote-- I wonder if you could research potentially what he was more fully expressing when he shared the statements of apostasy --rising up against the church Etc-- I think you would be enlightened to more fully understand that quote in the context it was meant to be understood... would love for you to elaborate on some of the bold expressions you gave in regards to persuading others from giving heed to this Anonymous fellow's information / revelations. Thanks, JB

diligently seeking
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by diligently seeking »

"Joseph Smith often spoke about the fallibility of men, he himself repented often and publicly, asking for forgiveness when something was wrong. " Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men;

4 For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him."

So if a man encourages you to know God directly and not only that but to see Him, what is the red flag? How can that damn you from the Lord? Yes, you will be tested, the adversary will masquerade as God at times, but we must all walk through that fire to Christ if we are to know His Spirit from deceptive spirits. We must all walk our own path to the Lord if we are to become reliant upon His Spirit personally in all things that we do. The original hebrew meaning for Worship is something like "consistent relationship with God". A consistent connection to the Lord within your own heart, not through the medium of another. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3....

The modern LDS like to think of the words of men (lds presidents) as definitive as the Holy Ghost, which misses the mark. We must not rely upon the arm of flesh or your Salvation, The Lord wants us each to know Him directly, prophets simply share messages and gather people to pierce the veil themselves.



"The Two Comforters, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1938), 149-151.

There are two Comforters spoken of. One is the Holy Ghost, the same as given on the day of Pentecost, and that all Saints receive after faith, repentance, and baptism. This first Comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile, though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body; for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence.

The Second Comforter

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted.

When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.

Note the 16, 17, 18, 21, 23 verses-

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions--Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn..." "suntumbler"

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Mark
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by Mark »

"The modern LDS like to think of the words of men (lds presidents) as definitive as the Holy Ghost, which misses the mark. We must not rely upon the arm of flesh or your Salvation, The Lord wants us each to know Him directly, prophets simply share messages and gather people to pierce the veil themselves."

This is such a curious statement Jared. You seem to equate the words of the Prophets directly with the arm of flesh. Why? Do you feel Prophets do not speak under the influence of the Holy Ghost? Has that been your observation in the Kingdom? I sure hope that is not the case. Are you forgetting the Lords words in section 68?

2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth—

3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

How do you know if these Prophets are speaking as moved upon by the Holy Ghost? You must have that connection with the spirit yourself of course. This arm of flesh talking point you are alluding to which is spouted continuously by those who love to attack LDS Prophets is misplaced. I have felt the Holy Ghost confirm time and again that these Prophets are speaking under the influence of the Spirit. To me that indicates just exactly what the Lord says it indicates in verse 4. It is the same as If the Lord himself were speaking to me. How exactly would that be missing the mark? Perhaps those who think their words equate to the arm of flesh just need to do some fine tuning with their own spiritual antennas so that they can know for themselves who these Prophets are speaking in behalf of. Maybe they are to occupied looking for fault which seems to be the case with this pure revelations blog and many others out there like it when they should instead be listening for those spiritual promptings themselves? Just sayin..

diligently seeking
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Posts: 1272

Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by diligently seeking »

Mark wrote: August 5th, 2017, 8:38 am "The modern LDS like to think of the words of men (lds presidents) as definitive as the Holy Ghost, which misses the mark. We must not rely upon the arm of flesh or your Salvation, The Lord wants us each to know Him directly, prophets simply share messages and gather people to pierce the veil themselves."

This is such a curious statement Jared. You seem to equate the words of the Prophets directly with the arm of flesh. Why? Do you feel Prophets do not speak under the influence of the Holy Ghost? Has that been your observation in the Kingdom? I sure hope that is not the case. Are you forgetting the Lords words in section 68?

2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth—

3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

How do you know if these Prophets are speaking as moved upon by the Holy Ghost? You must have that connection with the spirit yourself of course. This arm of flesh talking point you are alluding to which is spouted continuously by those who love to attack LDS Prophets is misplaced. I have felt the Holy Ghost confirm time and again that these Prophets are speaking under the influence of the Spirit. To me that indicates just exactly what the Lord says it indicates in verse 4. It is the same as If the Lord himself were speaking to me. How exactly would that be missing the mark? Perhaps those who think their words equate to the arm of flesh just need to do some fine tuning with their own spiritual antennas so that they can know for themselves who these Prophets are speaking in behalf of. Maybe they are to occupied looking for fault which seems to be the case with this pure revelations blog and many others out there like it when they should instead be listening for those spiritual promptings themselves? Just sayin..



These are fun and interesting times-- huh, my brother?

I personally hunger for God's word and Voice through his Messengers...

However, this is secondary to personal conversion / knowing his revlatory voice for ourselves.

Elder Bednar mention that the oil in the five virgins lamps represented personal conversion.

When we take the Holy Spirit as our guide we are equipped to know truth from error. This scripture -then- takes on the meaning it should for us.

2nephi 28

31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Reading this whole chapter in context of our discussion is very instructive.

Mark, we worship a God of infinite power and capacity and desire for us to be one with him.

I would be much more worried about being lulled away thinking all is well in Zion because a source is feeding me all that I need to know vs believing that God will help me to know his voice from the deceivers voice...

Many snares to lead us off into paths of Destruction no doubt are ever present in this second estate. moving forward in righteousness and following Jesus Christ wanting his will and voice to be manifested to us is the result of God's power to help us to have victory over all such stumbling blocks... to think otherwise is to be held back by unbelief.

Deuteronomy 3:22

22 Ye shall not fear them: for the Lord your God he shall fight for you.


2nephi 4:

30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin?
32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!
33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy.
34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.
35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen.

We should live to receive the spirit so we can be led personally by the Lord and rejoice as a result when such Spirit confirms that leaders have the mind and will and voice of the Lord. We should also take comfort and confidence in knowing when the spirit confirms that such leaders are amiss... we are God's business. we would do well to trust that he will fight our fights and go before us and lead us to him. :)

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AI2.0
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Posts: 3917

Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by AI2.0 »

My responses in blue:
Suntumbler wrote: February 21st, 2017, 1:34 pm The answer is simple. Does it testify of Christ and bring further light and truth into your life? Confirm all things with the Holy Ghost, you can ask people on here but until you go to the Lord directly you won't find a solid confirmation. If you want to know something, ask Him. (in His spirit of peace and love, sot that he may connect with you). I follow the blog as well, one reason he prefers to stay anonymous is because he doesn't want followers to his name, he wants people to take the message directly to God; which is understandable. He's actually not a big Remnant follower, his experiences push against Denver Snuffer on several topics like DS's latest translation of St. John.

Do you know him personally to know who he is? If not, you know nothing about his character. He can still gain followers and be anonymous--if he has people who read his books and follow his blog and follows his teachings, he's got 'followers'. I'm not surprised he not a 'remnant follower' because why should he follow Snuffer when he can claim the same experiences and apparently believes he's receiving plenty of revelation himself and writing books of what he's learned that he doesn't need to listen to Snuffer.

Joseph Smith often spoke about the fallibility of men, he himself repented often and publicly, asking for forgiveness when something was wrong. " Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men;

4 For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him."

So if a man encourages you to know God directly and not only that but to see Him, what is the red flag? How can that damn you from the Lord? Yes, you will be tested, the adversary will masquerade as God at times, but we must all walk through that fire to Christ if we are to know His Spirit from deceptive spirits. We must all walk our own path to the Lord if we are to become reliant upon His Spirit personally in all things that we do. The original hebrew meaning for Worship is something like "consistent relationship with God". A consistent connection to the Lord within your own heart, not through the medium of another. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3.... You are ignoring the various spirits that can deceive us. Joseph assumed it was understood (it's clear in the scriptures)
that you'd realize that you should still be listening to the Lord's prophets and weighing what you feel is personal revelation by what is taught in the scriptures and the Prophets.


The modern LDS like to think of the words of men (lds presidents) as definitive as the Holy Ghost, no, that's not accurate.
We believe our prophets, when MOVED upon by the holy spirit speak inspired words. We also have a doctrine that God has appointed prophets and apostles to lead the church BY AUTHORITY of the priesthood which they hold.
which misses the mark.actually, only your interpretation and false perception miss the mark. We must not rely upon the arm of flesh or your Salvation, The Lord wants us each to know Him directly, prophets simply share messages and gather people to pierce the veil themselves. We DO know him directly, but we also know that a prophet has a purpose. We hear this often from those who ignore the fact that the LDS church has a doctrine of following prophets. This is so typical of remnant people and those on the fringes who want to create their own religion to suit themselves. This is our religious belief--the Lord leads and guides the church through his prophet and apostles. If you reject this and call it an 'arm of flesh' then you are out of harmony with the teachings and doctrines of the LDS faith. Can those who claim this not figure this out?? it's really simple. Since the day that Joseph Smith organized this church it has been thus--we recognize a prophet at the head of the church who leads and guides the church and is the only one appointed to receive revelation for the church as a whole. You and I and all the others can receive revelation for ourselves and those we have stewardship over. Since the days of Joseph Smith, various men have tried to set themselves up as 'prophets' who know more than the prophet at the head of the church, this pure revelations anonymous writer is no different than those before him.



"The Two Comforters, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1938), 149-151.

There are two Comforters spoken of. One is the Holy Ghost, the same as given on the day of Pentecost, and that all Saints receive after faith, repentance, and baptism. This first Comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile, though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body; for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence.

The Second Comforter

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted.

When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.

Note the 16, 17, 18, 21, 23 verses-

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions--Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.

The Spirit of Revelation

The Spirit of Revelation is in connection with these blessings. A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.,) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.
I don't trust this guy--and I think he will take people out of the church if they read and follow his teachings. We were told to beware of false prophets and judge them by their 'fruits'. If a person tells you to not pay tithing, even though it's a commandment of God, that person is leading you away from the true doctrines of God, period. What more proof does one need than to recognize clearly what will end up being the 'fruit' of listening to this guy--bitter fruit in the end, for those who are deceived and for their loved ones.

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BringerOfJoy
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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by BringerOfJoy »

Matchmaker wrote: January 23rd, 2017, 11:00 am Stay in the boat!
Which boat? This one? Sometimes you need to listen to that still small voice that tells you to get off to save your soul.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saluda_(steamship)

I know who the author of the OP website is, and I believe he is sincere. I can understand why he protects his identity. That being said, I have a few issues with what he believes, though there is certainly truth there also.
Thomas wrote: January 20th, 2017, 7:07 pm...
I think there will be a lot of disappointed LDS on judgment day when they find their expectations to be in vain.
8 It is in vain for persons to fancy to themselves that they are heirs with those, or can be heirs with them, who have offered their all in sacrifice, and by this means obtained faith in God and favor with him so as to obtain eternal life, unless they in like manner offer unto him the same sacrifice, and through that offering obtain the knowledge that they are accepted of him.
Too bad they are not taught of these things in church. Joseph Smith sacrificed his life to bring us the word of the Lord and has been treated as so much trash. Much easier to sell a church that teaches that you can have it all here and now and have all in the after life as well. Gospel lite.
I weep for my friends and family over this. I weep for what/who I was a decade ago before I came to understand this. What Thomas has said is a gift to you.

diligently seeking
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1272

Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

Post by diligently seeking »

AI2.0 wrote: August 5th, 2017, 1:21 pm My responses in blue:
Suntumbler wrote: February 21st, 2017, 1:34 pm The answer is simple. Does it testify of Christ and bring further light and truth into your life? Confirm all things with the Holy Ghost, you can ask people on here but until you go to the Lord directly you won't find a solid confirmation. If you want to know something, ask Him. (in His spirit of peace and love, sot that he may connect with you). I follow the blog as well, one reason he prefers to stay anonymous is because he doesn't want followers to his name, he wants people to take the message directly to God; which is understandable. He's actually not a big Remnant follower, his experiences push against Denver Snuffer on several topics like DS's latest translation of St. John.

Do you know him personally to know who he is? If not, you know nothing about his character. He can still gain followers and be anonymous--if he has people who read his books and follow his blog and follows his teachings, he's got 'followers'. I'm not surprised he not a 'remnant follower' because why should he follow Snuffer when he can claim the same experiences and apparently believes he's receiving plenty of revelation himself and writing books of what he's learned that he doesn't need to listen to Snuffer.

Joseph Smith often spoke about the fallibility of men, he himself repented often and publicly, asking for forgiveness when something was wrong. " Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men;

4 For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him."

So if a man encourages you to know God directly and not only that but to see Him, what is the red flag? How can that damn you from the Lord? Yes, you will be tested, the adversary will masquerade as God at times, but we must all walk through that fire to Christ if we are to know His Spirit from deceptive spirits. We must all walk our own path to the Lord if we are to become reliant upon His Spirit personally in all things that we do. The original hebrew meaning for Worship is something like "consistent relationship with God". A consistent connection to the Lord within your own heart, not through the medium of another. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3.... You are ignoring the various spirits that can deceive us. Joseph assumed it was understood (it's clear in the scriptures)
that you'd realize that you should still be listening to the Lord's prophets and weighing what you feel is personal revelation by what is taught in the scriptures and the Prophets.


The modern LDS like to think of the words of men (lds presidents) as definitive as the Holy Ghost, no, that's not accurate.
We believe our prophets, when MOVED upon by the holy spirit speak inspired words. We also have a doctrine that God has appointed prophets and apostles to lead the church BY AUTHORITY of the priesthood which they hold.
which misses the mark.actually, only your interpretation and false perception miss the mark. We must not rely upon the arm of flesh or your Salvation, The Lord wants us each to know Him directly, prophets simply share messages and gather people to pierce the veil themselves. We DO know him directly, but we also know that a prophet has a purpose. We hear this often from those who ignore the fact that the LDS church has a doctrine of following prophets. This is so typical of remnant people and those on the fringes who want to create their own religion to suit themselves. This is our religious belief--the Lord leads and guides the church through his prophet and apostles. If you reject this and call it an 'arm of flesh' then you are out of harmony with the teachings and doctrines of the LDS faith. Can those who claim this not figure this out?? it's really simple. Since the day that Joseph Smith organized this church it has been thus--we recognize a prophet at the head of the church who leads and guides the church and is the only one appointed to receive revelation for the church as a whole. You and I and all the others can receive revelation for ourselves and those we have stewardship over. Since the days of Joseph Smith, various men have tried to set themselves up as 'prophets' who know more than the prophet at the head of the church, this pure revelations anonymous writer is no different than those before him.



"The Two Comforters, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1938), 149-151.

There are two Comforters spoken of. One is the Holy Ghost, the same as given on the day of Pentecost, and that all Saints receive after faith, repentance, and baptism. This first Comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile, though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body; for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence.

The Second Comforter

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted.

When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.

Note the 16, 17, 18, 21, 23 verses-

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions--Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.

The Spirit of Revelation

The Spirit of Revelation is in connection with these blessings. A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.,) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.
I don't trust this guy--and I think he will take people out of the church if they read and follow his teachings. We were told to beware of false prophets and judge them by their 'fruits'. If a person tells you to not pay tithing, even though it's a commandment of God, that person is leading you away from the true doctrines of God, period. What more proof does one need than to recognize clearly what will end up being the 'fruit' of listening to this guy--bitter fruit in the end, for those who are deceived and for their loved ones.

Sigh... A.12--- he never ever taught that one should not pay tithing. You need to reserve judgment until you know better. Don't read anything that "because of lack if preperation" would cause fear or panic / crisis. However, familiarize yourself with the Holy One of Israel above all else for he truly is the Keeper of *the gate* and employs no servant there. As Christ is our utmost focus when we see the fruits of his righteousness in our life ---that which is true will remain that which is not ---will fall away. To what degree are we anchored to Jesus..?

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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

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BackBlast wrote: August 4th, 2017, 1:33 pm I do try to be a believing sort, and I gave this blog a try. I believe my participation here has shown that I'm generally supportive of people seeking the face of our Lord. The resulting experiences in my life has prompted me to offer a caution to others about this blog. Honestly this is difficult for me to post, but I believe it true and this is the best place to put it.

I felt strongly enough about my experience I wrote a more detailed critique here https://purerevelationscheck.wordpress.com/

Essentially this one appears to be using subtle means to set himself up among those who seek such things. My impression from my spiritual experiences is that he is spiritually dangerous. These are my thoughts.

Thank you for taking the time to publish your views on Purerevelations blog, your thoughts were very helpful. I agree with you, the writer of this blog is definitely preaching false doctrines. I hope readers will be careful not to be seduced by the same lying spirit which seems to have taken hold of a small group of LDS who have good intentions and seek after truth but apparently are unable to discern false teachings and false spirits.

Some ways to protect against the false prophets and false teachers which we've been warned about in the last days is to have a sufficient knowledge of the scriptures to know when they are being contradicted, and to be worthy of the inspiration of the Holy Ghost by being obedient, keeping Heavenly Father's commandments, watching and praying for guidance and we need to humble and teachable in that we heed the warnings of the Lord's Prophets, as that is their purpose--to keep us standing in holy places and holding firmly to the iron rod.

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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

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BringerOfJoy wrote: August 5th, 2017, 1:31 pm
Matchmaker wrote: January 23rd, 2017, 11:00 am Stay in the boat!
Which boat? This one? Sometimes you need to listen to that still small voice that tells you to get off to save your soul.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saluda_(steamship)

I know who the author of the OP website is, and I believe he is sincere. I can understand why he protects his identity. That being said, I have a few issues with what he believes, though there is certainly truth there also.
Thomas wrote: January 20th, 2017, 7:07 pm...
I think there will be a lot of disappointed LDS on judgment day when they find their expectations to be in vain.
8 It is in vain for persons to fancy to themselves that they are heirs with those, or can be heirs with them, who have offered their all in sacrifice, and by this means obtained faith in God and favor with him so as to obtain eternal life, unless they in like manner offer unto him the same sacrifice, and through that offering obtain the knowledge that they are accepted of him.
Too bad they are not taught of these things in church. Joseph Smith sacrificed his life to bring us the word of the Lord and has been treated as so much trash. Much easier to sell a church that teaches that you can have it all here and now and have all in the after life as well. Gospel lite.
I weep for my friends and family over this. I weep for what/who I was a decade ago before I came to understand this. What Thomas has said is a gift to you.
And I bet your's and Thomas' friends and family weep for you too, since you both joined the remnant.

You see, you think they are the ones who are wandering about lost and deceived but they believe you are. And so, we must ask--which is true? They can't both be true--Snuffer has declared the LDS faith in apostasy and claims to have 'wrested' the keys from our prophets. However, if you join the remnant you have no prophets and apostles, you have no church set up as Christ set his church up at the meridian of time and again through the prophet Joseph Smith. You have a priesthood which you took from the mother church and pick and choose which doctrines you want to preserve and which to re-interpret to suit your 'prophet's' preferences. Denver Snuffer-- a onetime 'Saint', now turned 'prophet', gives his opinions on how things should be run and changes scriptures to suit his views--all without any presumption of authority, something I'd assumed most LDS would understand is vital to a church which claims to be God's church on earth.

The remnant was started by a man who spent 40 years in the LDS faith, living it, preaching it, believing it and then he lost his testimony, was excommunicated and took with him many people who aligned themselves with him. How is he any different from James Strang or David Whitmer or Sidney Rigdon, to name only three of the dozens who've followed this same example-- who all did the same thing when they also lost their faith in the restored gospel? And Denver Snuffer won't be the last to follow in their footsteps--already we see one standing in the wings--anonymous for now, but most likely not forever. Here is another to stand against the Lord's true church, this anonymous person who writes the purerevelations blog--he is following the same path and tragically, will influence others to follow him too. And then, one of his readers will find that he doesn't need to follow some other man--besides he will break with him on some issues and so the pattern will continue, these people who leave the church and set up their own religions. These things follow a pattern because history repeats itself and human nature is so predictable.

Most definitely a lot of tears will be shed before this is over...

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Re: Thoughts on the Pure Revelations Blog

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JaredBees wrote: August 5th, 2017, 2:20 pm
AI2.0 wrote: August 5th, 2017, 1:21 pm My responses in blue:
Suntumbler wrote: February 21st, 2017, 1:34 pm The answer is simple. Does it testify of Christ and bring further light and truth into your life? Confirm all things with the Holy Ghost, you can ask people on here but until you go to the Lord directly you won't find a solid confirmation. If you want to know something, ask Him. (in His spirit of peace and love, sot that he may connect with you). I follow the blog as well, one reason he prefers to stay anonymous is because he doesn't want followers to his name, he wants people to take the message directly to God; which is understandable. He's actually not a big Remnant follower, his experiences push against Denver Snuffer on several topics like DS's latest translation of St. John.

Do you know him personally to know who he is? If not, you know nothing about his character. He can still gain followers and be anonymous--if he has people who read his books and follow his blog and follows his teachings, he's got 'followers'. I'm not surprised he not a 'remnant follower' because why should he follow Snuffer when he can claim the same experiences and apparently believes he's receiving plenty of revelation himself and writing books of what he's learned that he doesn't need to listen to Snuffer.

Joseph Smith often spoke about the fallibility of men, he himself repented often and publicly, asking for forgiveness when something was wrong. " Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men;

4 For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him."

So if a man encourages you to know God directly and not only that but to see Him, what is the red flag? How can that damn you from the Lord? Yes, you will be tested, the adversary will masquerade as God at times, but we must all walk through that fire to Christ if we are to know His Spirit from deceptive spirits. We must all walk our own path to the Lord if we are to become reliant upon His Spirit personally in all things that we do. The original hebrew meaning for Worship is something like "consistent relationship with God". A consistent connection to the Lord within your own heart, not through the medium of another. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3.... You are ignoring the various spirits that can deceive us. Joseph assumed it was understood (it's clear in the scriptures)
that you'd realize that you should still be listening to the Lord's prophets and weighing what you feel is personal revelation by what is taught in the scriptures and the Prophets.


The modern LDS like to think of the words of men (lds presidents) as definitive as the Holy Ghost, no, that's not accurate.
We believe our prophets, when MOVED upon by the holy spirit speak inspired words. We also have a doctrine that God has appointed prophets and apostles to lead the church BY AUTHORITY of the priesthood which they hold.
which misses the mark.actually, only your interpretation and false perception miss the mark. We must not rely upon the arm of flesh or your Salvation, The Lord wants us each to know Him directly, prophets simply share messages and gather people to pierce the veil themselves. We DO know him directly, but we also know that a prophet has a purpose. We hear this often from those who ignore the fact that the LDS church has a doctrine of following prophets. This is so typical of remnant people and those on the fringes who want to create their own religion to suit themselves. This is our religious belief--the Lord leads and guides the church through his prophet and apostles. If you reject this and call it an 'arm of flesh' then you are out of harmony with the teachings and doctrines of the LDS faith. Can those who claim this not figure this out?? it's really simple. Since the day that Joseph Smith organized this church it has been thus--we recognize a prophet at the head of the church who leads and guides the church and is the only one appointed to receive revelation for the church as a whole. You and I and all the others can receive revelation for ourselves and those we have stewardship over. Since the days of Joseph Smith, various men have tried to set themselves up as 'prophets' who know more than the prophet at the head of the church, this pure revelations anonymous writer is no different than those before him.



"The Two Comforters, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1938), 149-151.

There are two Comforters spoken of. One is the Holy Ghost, the same as given on the day of Pentecost, and that all Saints receive after faith, repentance, and baptism. This first Comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile, though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body; for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence.

The Second Comforter

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted.

When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.

Note the 16, 17, 18, 21, 23 verses-

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions--Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.

The Spirit of Revelation

The Spirit of Revelation is in connection with these blessings. A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.,) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.
I don't trust this guy--and I think he will take people out of the church if they read and follow his teachings. We were told to beware of false prophets and judge them by their 'fruits'. If a person tells you to not pay tithing, even though it's a commandment of God, that person is leading you away from the true doctrines of God, period. What more proof does one need than to recognize clearly what will end up being the 'fruit' of listening to this guy--bitter fruit in the end, for those who are deceived and for their loved ones.

Sigh... A.12--- he never ever taught that one should not pay tithing. You need to reserve judgment until you know better. Don't read anything that "because of lack if preperation" would cause fear or panic / crisis. However, familiarize yourself with the Holy One of Israel above all else for he truly is the Keeper of *the gate* and employs no servant there. As Christ is our utmost focus when we see the fruits of his righteousness in our life ---that which is true will remain that which is not ---will fall away. To what degree are we anchored to Jesus..?
Oh, I'm certain he didn't say 'don't pay tithing', that would be too obvious. But don't be fooled-- he no longer pays tithing because he said he was told not to. And obviously he's not paying tithing or he wouldn't have lost his recommend, he admitted it. What you apparently don't understand is that he's NOT paying tithing anymore. If the funds are not paid to the Bishop or the church, then the funds are not tithing--they are something else--charitable offerings, is what they are called--and charitable offerings are not tithing. And what other commandments and doctrines will he jettison next because he believes he's received a 'revelation'??

Yes, the Lord employs no servant there and his sheep 'hear' his voice and they follow him. They stay close to him and the shepherds he sets to watch over them--they don't wander about in strange and forbidden paths. We need to anchor ourselves to Christ, but in the last days, we must beware of false christs. Some are tragically anchoring themselves to millstones and not to Christ.

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