Will There Be A Call Out?

[brianj]

If the Chinese and Russians invade and according to these ridiculously silly non-prophecies the US gov't will have no response whatsoever, where will you go??? You think you can hide from them in Heber? Let me get this straight. The Chi / Rus have the capability to completely overwhelm the combined US forces but son't have the ability tot find refugees hiding in the woods 30 miles from a population center? Really?

Church members couldn't hide from foreign military forces just like the city of Ammonihah or the temple in Jerusalem could be destroyed in one day.

[Rensai]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I've always thought D&C 103 is talking about a callout or at least an exodus of the righteous.

15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.
18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.
19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.
20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.

So Zion has to be redeemed by power, that seems clear, we can't do it on our own. The Lord will send one to lead us like Moses led the Children of Israel, which could be anyone, but for my guess, I really like the Marred Servant mentioned in 3 Nephi. Anyway, being led like Moses sounds like many of the saints being gathered up for a callout or exodus and led by an important servant to be protected so they can help build Zion.

[Spaced_Out]

False doctrine:
No general authority would say Zion Jackson county is for the leadership of the church only - there is nothing in the church that is only for the leadership of the church.
The scripture is clear we will need to flee both spiritual and physical Babylon.

A house divided can't stand - it is in direct contradiction to scripture. Only the leadership go to Zion in the tribulations =)) :))
Doctrine and Covenants 45:
68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.
69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.
70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.
71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy.

[Spaced_Out]

Even if the Church doesn't issue a mass-exodus decree to everyone in the event of a calamity, I'm believing that an individual's common sense (and inspiration from the Holy Spirit) will prevail in certain circumstances. If the damn breaks up yonder, one might want to head for high ground. We shouldn't need to be commanded in all things.

If the Chinese and Russians invade and according to these ridiculously silly non-prophecies the US gov't will have no response whatsoever, where will you go??? You think you can hide from them in Heber? Let me get this straight. The Chi / Rus have the capability to completely overwhelm the combined US forces but son't have the ability tot find refugees hiding in the woods 30 miles from a population center? Really?

Boo hoo the resources required to find a few harmless refuges in the woods is not worth the trouble.

In WW2 these polish Jews hid in a forest evading capture for years until the end of the war, there was a good movie made of the event.
The Bielski Brothers; Jewish Resistance and the "Otriad"

[Matchmaker]

Even if the Church doesn't issue a mass-exodus decree to everyone in the event of a calamity, I'm believing that an individual's common sense (and inspiration from the Holy Spirit) will prevail in certain circumstances. If the damn breaks up yonder, one might want to head for high ground. We shouldn't need to be commanded in all things.

Here's the problem: I have two real friends in Utah, neither of whom would let me move in with them (one is a single female, the other is away from home and his wife four to five days per week). I have no family in Utah or elsewhere in the region, and I have no other friends in the region. Right now I don't even have enough money to spend a week in a cheap hotel. So if things do go really bad, where do I go?

I am not alone in this. I know a great many people in the church who don't have close friends or family in areas that we can anticipate will be relatively safe, who therefore would not have any place to go if things get bad where they live. If there were just a hundred or so people in this situation, I'm sure it could be handled without a lot of difficulty. But when there are tens of thousands of people who would need to go someplace relatively safe, without direction from church leadership a lot of us have problems finding someplace to go.

Come here anyway! We will find a safe place for you to stay. It doesn't matter if we know you personally or not. In an emergency, I would stake my reputation on saying that no one with an honest heart would be turned away or remain a stranger for long. If the internet is still up at that time, send me a personal message, and I'll tell you how to get to my house.

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

Who is the actual source/speaker in this video?

He posts under the name 'LDSMarco' here and on AVOW, Facebook, YouTube, etc. That's his voice you hear in the OP.

And he got a lot of flack on AVOW for daring to challenge their sacred belief of a call out.

[Todd]

If the Chinese and Russians invade and according to these ridiculously silly non-prophecies the US gov't will have no response whatsoever, where will you go??? You think you can hide from them in Heber? Let me get this straight. The Chi / Rus have the capability to completely overwhelm the combined US forces but son't have the ability tot find refugees hiding in the woods 30 miles from a population center? Really?

Church members couldn't hide from foreign military forces just like the city of Ammonihah or the temple in Jerusalem could be destroyed in one day.

JR's words:

-- "There were protective shields, if you will, placed around the camps, with varying levels or degrees of protection..." -- A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil

-- "I could see that the men who sought to harm the people were angry, vicious, murderous men, who followed Satan. They were extremely frustrated that they could not penetrate an invisible shield or barrier that had been placed around the outskirts of the camps to protect the Saints." -- A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil

-- "I was shown that surrounding many of the camps there were shields of protection. I saw that in some cases there were literal dome-like energy shields that had been placed over them." -- The Time is Now

And this statement is from Hector:

-- "The protective veil that my mother saw in her dream will be in place to shield the camp from invaders and troublemakers." -- A Change is Coming.

Since it is obvious that the shield would be able deflect any bombardment, all the the imperial forces would have to do is land outside the energy dome, engage the camps in AT-ATs with a ground assault and take out the main power generator. Or am I getting this confused with Star Wars?

[EdGoble]

We are blessed to be led by a modern-day prophet and other inspired leaders. We need to follow them. They have not mentioned tent cities, but they have counseled us to prepare for adversity by having a supply of food and water, and money in savings. We have been counseled:

“We encourage members worldwide to prepare for adversity in life by having a basic supply of food and water and some money in savings. We ask that you be wise, and do not go to extremes. With careful planning, you can, over time, establish a home storage supply and a financial reserve.”

Notice we have been told to prepare, but also counseled “do not go to extremes”. We should prepare for the future by following both parts of this counsel.

This is great!

I don't believe in the "call out" and never have either.

However, I think that it is an important thing to have camping gear and mobile supplies on hand because what I do believe in is the potential for what one could call "mini-call outs." And by this I mean, you never know if there will be disasters or the need to flee in the peripheries of Zion (i.e. non-central areas). I don't believe that Salt Lake City will be affected adversely to the degree of having to leave, but I see the potential for Stakes of Zion out in the world that may have to flee to the more central areas. I have always believed that the areas around Salt Lake city, in the surrounding not-so-populated valleys would become areas for refugee settlement who have to flee to Utah from other areas.

I believe that everyone will flee to Utah and to the surrounding "American Redoubt" areas, when they cannot subsist where they are where there is enough strength in numbers. Utah will be central to the "redoubt" in times to come (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Redoubt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). This will probably happen before a major migration to Missouri of any kind. And even then, most will not migrate to Missouri. We have already returned to Missouri, for all intents and purposes. It will be mostly the leaders of the Church, because the Church administration will move there, as many Church leaders have stated.

[Silver]

Which is more important in the eyes of the Lord, SLC or New Jerusalem/Adam-Ondi-Ahman/Garden of Eden?

Where was the Lord God standing when he decided to, "plant a garden eastward in Eden?" (Genesis 2:8)

[Onsdag]

Which is more important in the eyes of the Lord, SLC or New Jerusalem/Adam-Ondi-Ahman/Garden of Eden?

Where was the Lord God standing when he decided to, "plant a garden eastward in Eden?" (Genesis 2:8)

Kansas?

[EdGoble]

Which is more important in the eyes of the Lord, SLC or New Jerusalem/Adam-Ondi-Ahman/Garden of Eden?

Where was the Lord God standing when he decided to, "plant a garden eastward in Eden?" (Genesis 2:8)

I don't know what "important in the eyes of the Lord" means. There have been many historic and wonderful areas to live in the history of the earth, which have been sacred places throughout history, and many favored peoples in the eyes of the Lord throughout history. There are many people favored by the Lord that keep his commandments, and none are more important in his eyes than any other. The first vision happened in New York, in the area of Cumorah, where the sacred vault was of Nephite records. That remains sacred. Independence is a sacred place, and remains sacred. Utah has many sacred places that will remain sacred. Jerusalem remains sacred even though there are sacred places in America. Each land has a wonderful history with its own sacred places. The Lord loves sacred places. I think he loves them for the wonderful and vibrant history that each has. I don't think you can really ask a question like you are asking without having a flawed perception of the sacred to begin with. There is no one holy of holies of all holies in the earth, but there must be a center place for the sake of order in governance.

[Onsdag]

Who is the actual source/speaker in this video?

He posts under the name 'LDSMarco' here and on AVOW, Facebook, YouTube, etc. That's his voice you hear in the OP.

And he got a lot of flack on AVOW for daring to challenge their sacred belief of a call out.

Sounds like their MO hasn't changed from when I was there. The owner and moderators preach tolerance, but they'll be the first to show intolerance towards anyone who questions certain sacred cows, or dares to "steady the Ark" (Seriously, Christopher equated my calling Julie Rowe out as me steadying the Ark). There were a number of us, including a moderator, who were silenced and driven away from AVOW because of the sacred cow known as Julie Rowe. As long as you act the part of one of the sheep you'll be fine, but as soon as you in any way threaten the wolves' sheepdogs' food source flock then watch out!

[DesertWonderer]

Silver asks very good questions IMO. At one time Kirkland was the "center place"; then it was JC; then it was Nauvoo and now it is SLC. In fact in the D&C the saints are absolved of the responsibility to gather and build in JC: 124:51
51 Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God.

JS has said all of S and N American is Zion. So why then do we or even the leaders need to go there? Can't The Master just as easily hold AOA in SLC for example? That meeting really can't held any place else?

[DesertWonderer]

Who is the actual source/speaker in this video?

He posts under the name 'LDSMarco' here and on AVOW, Facebook, YouTube, etc. That's his voice you hear in the OP.

And he got a lot of flack on AVOW for daring to challenge their sacred belief of a call out.

Sounds like their MO hasn't changed from when I was there. The owner and moderators preach tolerance, but they'll be the first to show intolerance towards anyone who questions certain sacred cows, or dares to "steady the Ark" (Seriously, Christopher equated my calling Julie Rowe out as me steadying the Ark). There were a number of us, including a moderator, who were silenced and driven away from AVOW because of the sacred cow known as Julie Rowe. As long as you act the part of one of the sheep you'll be fine, but as soon as you in any way threaten the wolves' sheepdogs' food source flock then watch out!

Of course because $$ was at the root of everything for AVOW.

[Sandinista]

Here's a radical thought for you all to consider. Maybe the best thing that can happen is to be killed right out of the chute; to be the first to die from whatever disease, invasion, or whatever the conspiracy theorists and other nut jobs can come up with. That way you avoid all the pain, suffering, outdoor toilets, bad food, mosquitos, cold and heat, enemy interrogations, forced labor camps, angry mobs, worthless money, etc., etc., etc., and are on the side of the veil where you can "rest from all your labors". I hear that it's a constant 72 degrees and the "food" is pretty good on that side!

All kidding aside. One of my favorite passages of scripture is the 121st Section of the Doctrine and Covenants. When the Prophet pleads with the Lord for relief from the trials the Saints are experiencing, including his own trials, the simple answer from the Lord is found in versus 7-8:

7 "My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;

8 And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes."

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not against being prepared for a natural or man-made disaster, economic collapse, or whatever. I've faced an enemy and seen death up close and personal, been subject to hatred and animosity from people around me, understand the bitterness that comes with the loss of comrades and loved ones. I've eaten whatever I could find under rocks or behind dead trees and shrubs. Not pleasant, but I can handle it if I have to. I have over two years supply of food for my family, enough camping gear and the experience using it to pretty much live indefinitely "off-the-grid", lot's of weapons and ammunition (and the means to re-load and sustain my "hobby"), emergency savings, vehicles capability of traversing deserts and mountains, and just about anything else anyone on this forum promotes in the way of emergency preparedness, including the training to use all the things I have collected/stockpiled.

I also have "stockpiled" the one thing that many on this forum so easily leave off their preparation list. I chose to put my trust in the Lord. If it all falls apart tomorrow and the Lord wants me to stay and undergo the trials any scenario will bring I'll be ready. But if it all falls apart tomorrow I'm also ready to go "home" and avoid it all if that is what the Lord wants me to do.

Because I've taken the advice of the Lord's Prophets and prepared all "needful" things I do not fear whatever man can cause. Because I continually strive to be spiritually ready and put my faith and trust in the Savior I also do not fear what man can cause.

[Sarah]

We are blessed to be led by a modern-day prophet and other inspired leaders. We need to follow them. They have not mentioned tent cities, but they have counseled us to prepare for adversity by having a supply of food and water, and money in savings. We have been counseled:

“We encourage members worldwide to prepare for adversity in life by having a basic supply of food and water and some money in savings. We ask that you be wise, and do not go to extremes. With careful planning, you can, over time, establish a home storage supply and a financial reserve.”

Notice we have been told to prepare, but also counseled “do not go to extremes”. We should prepare for the future by following both parts of this counsel.

This is great!

I don't believe in the "call out" and never have either.

However, I think that it is an important thing to have camping gear and mobile supplies on hand because what I do believe in is the potential for what one could call "mini-call outs." And by this I mean, you never know if there will be disasters or the need to flee in the peripheries of Zion (i.e. non-central areas). I don't believe that Salt Lake City will be affected adversely to the degree of having to leave, but I see the potential for Stakes of Zion out in the world that may have to flee to the more central areas. I have always believed that the areas around Salt Lake city, in the surrounding not-so-populated valleys would become areas for refugee settlement who have to flee to Utah from other areas.

I believe that everyone will flee to Utah and to the surrounding "American Redoubt" areas, when they cannot subsist where they are where there is enough strength in numbers. Utah will be central to the "redoubt" in times to come (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Redoubt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). This will probably happen before a major migration to Missouri of any kind. And even then, most will not migrate to Missouri. We have already returned to Missouri, for all intents and purposes. It will be mostly the leaders of the Church, because the Church administration will move there, as many Church leaders have stated.

In May of 1868 Heber C. Kimball said:

An army of Elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth to search out the righteous and warn the wicked of what is coming. All kinds of religions will be started and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect if that were possible. Our sons and daughters must live pure lives so as to be prepared for what is coming.

After a while the Gentiles will gather by the thousands to this place, and Salt Lake City will be classed among the wicked cities of the world. A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage.

Persecution comes next and all true Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize and others will be still not knowing what to do. Darkness will cover the earth and gross darkness the minds of the people. The judgments of God will be poured out on the wicked to the extent that our Elders from far and near will be called home, or in other words the gospel will be taken from the Gentiles and later on carried to the Jews.

The western boundary of the State of Missouri will be swept so clean of its inhabitants that as President Young tells us, when you return to that place, there will not be left so much as a yellow dog to wag his tail.

Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to a test that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes.

Yes, we think we are secure here in the chambers of these everlasting hills, where we can close the doors of the canyons against mobs and persecutors, the wicked and the vile, who have always beset us with violence and robbery, but I want to say to you, my brethren, that the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy against the people of God.

Then is the time to look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall. For I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming.

This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with glory. The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess a personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got this testimony, you must live right and call upon the Lord, and cease not until you obtain it.

Remember these sayings: The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within themselves. If you do not have the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, how can you stand? (Heber C. Kimball, First Counselor in the First Presidency, May 1868, in Deseret News, 23 May 1931; see also Conference Report, Oct. 1930, p. 58-59)

Now, I'm sure some will say that he is referring to spiritual security, but he refers to the temporal security they feel from the mobs and violence. While more spiritual testing will continue, I fully expect that something will happen in Utah to effect a cleansing and testing that involves physical safety and temporal matters.

[DesertWonderer]

Now, I'm sure some will say that he is referring to spiritual security, but he refers to the temporal security they feel from the mobs and violence. While more spiritual testing will continue, I fully expect that something will happen in Utah to effect a cleansing and testing that involves physical safety and temporal matters.

So in your mind what form could that take? Natural disasters? Gangs from Mexico? Eco terrorists? Militant Black Panthers?

[Sandinista]

Now, I'm sure some will say that he is referring to spiritual security, but he refers to the temporal security they feel from the mobs and violence. While more spiritual testing will continue, I fully expect that something will happen in Utah to effect a cleansing and testing that involves physical safety and temporal matters.

So in your mind what form could that take? Natural disasters? Gangs from Mexico? Eco terrorists? Militant Black Panthers?

Rioting from BYU students when the U beats them yet again!

[DesertWonderer]

Now, I'm sure some will say that he is referring to spiritual security, but he refers to the temporal security they feel from the mobs and violence. While more spiritual testing will continue, I fully expect that something will happen in Utah to effect a cleansing and testing that involves physical safety and temporal matters.

So in your mind what form could that take? Natural disasters? Gangs from Mexico? Eco terrorists? Militant Black Panthers?

Rioting from BYU students when the U beats them yet again!

During the millennium we'll win every game :ymdevil:

[braingrunt]

Perhaps this is not a callout, but it is something:

•
What is the gathering of Israel?
Invite a class member to read 3 Nephi 16:4, 12; 20:10–13. Encourage the other class members to read along, looking for answers to the question. As class members discuss the question, ensure that they understand the following:
Israel is gathered as people gain a testimony of the Redeemer and His restored gospel and join His Church (if you used the attention activity, you may want to display the picture of a baptism as part of this discussion).
In the early days of the restored Church, part of the gathering of Israel was the Lord’s command that members of His Church join the body of Saints in North America, whether in Missouri, Illinois, or the Salt Lake Valley. In the future, another temporal gathering will occur, as members of the house of Israel are gathered to the lands of their inheritance (see section 3 of this lesson). However, the gathering now taking place is a spiritual gathering.
President Spencer W. Kimball explained: “The ‘gathering of Israel’ is effected when the people of the faraway countries accept the gospel and remain in their native lands. The gathering of Israel for Mexicans is in Mexico; in Scandinavia, for those of the northern countries; the gathering place for the Germans is in Germany; and the Polynesians, in the islands; for the Brazilians, in Brazil; for the Argentines, in Argentina” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1975, 4; or Ensign, May 1975, 4).

this is from the Book of Mormon: Gospel Doctine Teacher's Manual

Now the gathering is spiritual but this says another physical one is yet future. This also accords with my understanding of the scriptures so, with those two witnesses, I feel pretty comfortable telling you all that some interesting movements will happen someday; though maybe you and I won't be part of them.

[Sarah]

Now, I'm sure some will say that he is referring to spiritual security, but he refers to the temporal security they feel from the mobs and violence. While more spiritual testing will continue, I fully expect that something will happen in Utah to effect a cleansing and testing that involves physical safety and temporal matters.

So in your mind what form could that take? Natural disasters? Gangs from Mexico? Eco terrorists? Militant Black Panthers?

Haven't seen that, but we know "upon my house" will it begin, whatever "it" may me. We know for sure a plague/overflowing scourge is coming. We know there will be natural disasters. We know there will be civil strife, and if we believe the BofM, we know that when a people turn wicked they loose protection from their enemies.

[Juliet]

I have always been open to the callout idea. We have gotten a few things here and there just in case. But the other day I was getting ready for the day and the Lord said to me, "you don't know how it is going to happen", and that took me back a little.

Part of my willingness to grab onto these witnesses' stories is because I want Jesus to come back soooo bad I am willing to believe anything that points to His return as being as soon as possible. I really can't wait anymore. Life is hard. I want Jesus here and I want Him now! Meanwhile, I am trying to at least let Him come to me personally even if He still takes a while before He comes to the whole world.

[brianj]

Even if the Church doesn't issue a mass-exodus decree to everyone in the event of a calamity, I'm believing that an individual's common sense (and inspiration from the Holy Spirit) will prevail in certain circumstances. If the damn breaks up yonder, one might want to head for high ground. We shouldn't need to be commanded in all things.

Here's the problem: I have two real friends in Utah, neither of whom would let me move in with them (one is a single female, the other is away from home and his wife four to five days per week). I have no family in Utah or elsewhere in the region, and I have no other friends in the region. Right now I don't even have enough money to spend a week in a cheap hotel. So if things do go really bad, where do I go?

I am not alone in this. I know a great many people in the church who don't have close friends or family in areas that we can anticipate will be relatively safe, who therefore would not have any place to go if things get bad where they live. If there were just a hundred or so people in this situation, I'm sure it could be handled without a lot of difficulty. But when there are tens of thousands of people who would need to go someplace relatively safe, without direction from church leadership a lot of us have problems finding someplace to go.

Come here anyway! We will find a safe place for you to stay. It doesn't matter if we know you personally or not. In an emergency, I would stake my reputation on saying that no one with an honest heart would be turned away or remain a stranger for long. If the internet is still up at that time, send me a personal message, and I'll tell you how to get to my house.

Thanks for the invitation. I hope it is never necessary (I am hoping I can find a job in Utah and move there) but if it becomes necessary, I'll try to send a message before I hit the road!

[Spaced_Out]

Now, I'm sure some will say that he is referring to spiritual security, but he refers to the temporal security they feel from the mobs and violence. While more spiritual testing will continue, I fully expect that something will happen in Utah to effect a cleansing and testing that involves physical safety and temporal matters.

So in your mind what form could that take? Natural disasters? Gangs from Mexico? Eco terrorists? Militant Black Panthers?

Thee abomination of desolation will cause people to flee as stated by the master himself. And defined by Pres Benson in General Conference to mean Nuclear war, other t=general authorities have mentioned it as well. Separation of wheat and tares and the tares are burnt - if you stay in Babylon you will be burnt with them like Sodom and Gomorrah.

What causes the people to flee and not go back to their houses or take any items with them.....

Matt:24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

[Finrock]

Who is the actual source/speaker in this video?

He posts under the name 'LDSMarco' here and on AVOW, Facebook, YouTube, etc. That's his voice you hear in the OP.

And he got a lot of flack on AVOW for daring to challenge their sacred belief of a call out.

Sounds like their MO hasn't changed from when I was there. The owner and moderators preach tolerance, but they'll be the first to show intolerance towards anyone who questions certain sacred cows, or dares to "steady the Ark" (Seriously, Christopher equated my calling Julie Rowe out as me steadying the Ark). There were a number of us, including a moderator, who were silenced and driven away from AVOW because of the sacred cow known as Julie Rowe. As long as you act the part of one of the sheep you'll be fine, but as soon as you in any way threaten the wolves' sheepdogs' food source flock then watch out!

The very same thing can be found here.

-Finrock