Were those rhetorical questions or did you want actual responses? If you are sincere, I will sincerely answer.Mark wrote:Finrock wrote:I get all of that and I don't even disagree. It's just the irony, Mark. The hypocrisy. Can't you see it? Can't you see that you are saying, Hey, you are elitist and why would God reveal things for the whole world to this small special group, but you yourself accept the fact that God is, relatively speaking, revealing things to just a small special group, the LDS Apostles. Do you know that relative to the world, that we are obscure? We are but a small drop in the bucket and the vast majority of the world have never heard of us or will never hear, accept, or have anything to do with our prophets. They could and many would say the same thing to us, yet, you would justify in your mind how the criticism you just applied to Amonhi doesn't apply to you.Mark wrote:Finrock wrote:
Mark,
Please consider the following-
Special Pleading Fallacy:
Description: Applying standards, principles, and/or rules to other people or circumstances, while making oneself or certain circumstances exempt from the same critical criteria, without providing adequate justification. Special pleading is often a result of strong emotional beliefs that interfere with reason (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... l-Pleading" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).
You are criticizing Amonhi and Elliaison for spiritual elitism and superiority while in the same breath you testify of the same for your special group, namely the President and Prophet of the Church and the Apostles. The same criticism that you are using against Amonhi and Elliaison can in reality be used against Thomas S. Monson the the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Put aside your emotional beliefs for a moment and just view this objectively. I don't criticize you for having emotional beliefs, but, you have to recognize the irony and hypocrisy in your position.
You are denying one small group the privilege of being able to receive revelation and direction from God for all of God's children, and calling it spiritual elitism and superiority complex, while your small group of individuals that you support apparently have a special exception, presumably because you believe in this small group and because you believe in it, it must be able to receive revelation and direction from God for all of God's children and they are not spiritual elitist nor do they have a superiority complex.
Can you please explain rationally why your small group is the exception to your criticism? In other words, why doesn't your criticism apply to your group?
-Finrock
If you haven't figured that out by now after having read all the scriptures and revelations and words from the Prophet Joseph and many other LDS Prophets and Apostles I can't help you Brother. How did the Lord protect His Saints from the deceptive and false voices who were declaring to them revelations outside of His Priesthood channels He had set up? Please go read the Doctrine & Covenants and see how the Lord Himself instructed the Saints that the revelations of Diety for the benefit of mankind needed to be received and transmitted for their benefit and all Gods children who would listen. Start with the first part of Section 43 and then look up the multiple accounts where the Lord insturcted the Saints at the time of the restoration of this dispensation how Priesthood Govt and order was used in relaying revelation to his children. Section 42 is another good section to read. Look at verse 11. I don't remember the Lord stating that He would authorize and appoint some anonymous obscure internet "prophets" like Amonhi or Elliaison (whatever or whoever that is) to speak in his behalf for the benefit of his children in revealing and clarifying doctrine. Think this through Brother...
I hope you can recognize, Mark, that I am trying to be as fair as possible and to apply universal principles in all situations and not just when it favors my team or abandon or make excuses for principles when it doesn't favor my team. I believe that is the right way to live. See, what happens, though, is that I sometimes have to acknowledge negative things about my group that I belong to. And there are people like you, who are just about the team. At least that is what it seems like to me. It seems to me that you are a principled man as long as it doesn't reflect poorly on the team or things apply to others, but they don't apply to your team. I can't live that way and so you judge me to be not thinking things through, when in fact, I'm thinking them through very thoroughly and applying principles and standards of truth across the board. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Or what applies to one group, applies to another group, unless these is some reasonable exception.
So, can you justify your special pleading? You might be able to. I sure can't. I know I'm special pleading, but I can't justify it at the moment.
-Finrock
I'm curious Finrock. Did you ever serve as a full time missionary for the church? If so did you testify of the truthfulness of the restoration and the mission of the Prophet Joseph? Did it make you feel uncomfortable to declare that the church was as it purports the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth to people who loved their own church? How about Gods ordained Prophet? Were you uncomfortable testifying that The Lord spoke thru him for the benefit of all His children? What if someone liked their own priest or pastor? Did you feel hypocritical declaring that the LDS church had the Priesthood of God and was the only organization authorized by the Lord to perform the saving ordinances for all mankind? What about people who believed their baptism they had previously received in their own faith was sufficient and recognized by God as valid and complete? Did you apologize for making such bold declarations to people who believed differently? Did you favor your "team"?
Was that hypocritical of you not to be fair and balanced and just accept that it didn't matter what faith you belonged to as long as you believed in God? I hope you get what I am saying here. Amonhi is proposing things that are contrary to the revealed word of the Lord thru His Prophets. Does it make me a hypocrite to call him on his opposing viewpoints and declare that they are not in harmony with LDS doctrine and practices when he claims to be a Prophet himself?
-Finrock