The Ultimate Polygamy Thread - It started in the Past

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freedomforall
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Re: The Ultimate Polygamy Thread - It started in the Past

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Sarah wrote:
Melissa wrote:
Sarah wrote:
Melissa wrote:I could be wrong but Hagar wasn't a "wife" of Abraham. He wouldn't have married a handmaid, she wasn't his to marry, she belonged to Sarah. She essentially was used and prostituted out by her owner, Sarah.

That is NOT a model for polygamy at all!

If Emma gave to Joseph - the runaway teenager she took in to help around the house - so that Emma could have more kids, then Abraham and Hagars story would carry more weight in the early church practices.

It actually was an old way and wasn't right but allowed at that time. There is NO way that Hagars child with Abraham is actually Sarahs. That child essentially has nothing to do with her, only with Abraham.

We can't use old stuff to excuse today. The laws have changed.
The key here is that Sarah willingly GAVE Hagar to Abraham, and willingly GAVE or shared Abraham with Hagar. She used her agency to give and share with another.

Emma gave or shared Joseph with other women, and in the ordinance, she places the hand of the other woman in Joseph's hand, thus giving the woman to Joseph. This is all about giving and receiving.

Joseph asked a number of men to GIVE their wives to him. And I strongly believe that the evidence points to the Lord commanding Joseph to give Emma to another man. He and these other men were tested and willing to give. The Lord gives gifts, and we are not free to take for ourselves. Giving to others is what the CK is going to be all about - giving to others out of freedom of choice. If women have the opportunity to give other women to their husbands and give their husbands to other women, you can expect that men will also have the opportunity to give their wives to other men. And we know that Brigham said that a woman could always choose another man with higher priesthood authority. We do not live in a day of full equality, in or out of the Church, so said Bruce R. in Mormon Doctrine, but we are assured that ultimately, after this mortal life, there will be full equality.
Giving...not sexually, that would just be a free for all orgy. Hey honey I love you so much here are some more men for you to enjoy but be sure to come back home and share their germs with me...lol.

Your thoughts may be off base. What's the point of being sealed to a spouse? Why don't we all just do as we please under the guise of "God" giving us bountiful gifts to get intimate with anyone we see.

Sarah gave Hagar because that was her seemingly only legal option to ensure SHE had a kid. She should have waiting and trusted God!

I can't imagine placing my husband's hand in another woman's hand....for what purpose? How is this charity? Does God have a soul ready that needs my husband's DNA and this specific woman's DNA. And to say it's alright by telling women they will also have other husbands...is wrong. Men wouldn't want that to happen and I would guess that if a woman is against polygamy, she's against it for her own self too.
Well, it wouldn't be an orgy would it. Sexual relations only between husbands and wives as couples, not everyone all together at once. And we don't have to worry about germs in the eternities, and women will not have a limit on time and energy ability to have children. Plural marriage was not meant to work in mortality. And yes I admit this is very theoretical - I don't know for sure if this is how it will be, but all I know is what I know spiritually, and my Dad is sealed to two women that I know he loves, and that he wouldn't choose to abandon one to another if both wanted to be married to him. People can indeed be married to more than one person during their lives and love each. It doesn't mean we will all spend time together communally and try to make it all work. Each person is ultimately going to spend time and have relationships with those who they genuinely enjoy being with.

And just to clarify, it wasn't placing the husband's hand into the woman's it was taking the hand of the other woman and placing it into the hand of the man. At least that is what I recall reading - I will try to find the source.
Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

A few excerpts:

After receiving a revelation commanding him to practice plural marriage, Joseph Smith married multiple wives and introduced the practice to close associates

Many details about the early practice of plural marriage are unknown. Plural marriage was introduced among the early Saints incrementally, and participants were asked to keep their actions confidential. They did not discuss their experiences publicly or in writing until after the Latter-day Saints had moved to Utah and Church leaders had publicly acknowledged the practice.

The revelation on plural marriage was not written down until 1843, but its early verses suggest that part of it emerged from Joseph Smith’s study of the Old Testament in 1831. People who knew Joseph well later stated he received the revelation about that time. The revelation, recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 132, states that Joseph prayed to know why God justified Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon in having many wives. The Lord responded that He had commanded them to enter into the practice.

The first plural marriage in Nauvoo took place when Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841. Joseph married many additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice spread slowly at first. By June 1844, when Joseph died, approximately 29 men and 50 women had entered into plural marriage, in addition to Joseph and his wives. When the Saints entered the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, at least 196 men and 521 women had entered into plural marriages. Participants in these early plural marriages pledged to keep their involvement confidential, though they anticipated a time when the practice would be publicly acknowledged.
Nevertheless, rumors spread. A few men unscrupulously used these rumors to seduce women to join them in an unauthorized practice sometimes referred to as “spiritual wifery.” When this was discovered, the men were cut off from the Church. The rumors prompted members and leaders to issue carefully worded denials that denounced spiritual wifery and polygamy but were silent about what Joseph Smith and others saw as divinely mandated “celestial” plural marriage. The statements emphasized that the Church practiced no marital law other than monogamy while implicitly leaving open the possibility that individuals, under direction of God’s living prophet, might do so.

During the era in which plural marriage was practiced, Latter-day Saints distinguished between sealings for time and eternity and sealings for eternity only. Sealings for time and eternity included commitments and relationships during this life, generally including the possibility of sexual relations. Eternity-only sealings indicated relationships in the next life alone.
Evidence indicates that Joseph Smith participated in both types of sealings. The exact number of women to whom he was sealed in his lifetime is unknown because the evidence is fragmentary. Some of the women who were sealed to Joseph Smith later testified that their marriages were for time and eternity, while others indicated that their relationships were for eternity alone.

Most of those sealed to Joseph Smith were between 20 and 40 years of age at the time of their sealing to him. The oldest, Fanny Young, was 56 years old. The youngest was Helen Mar Kimball, daughter of Joseph’s close friends Heber C. and Vilate Murray Kimball, who was sealed to Joseph several months before her 15th birthday. Marriage at such an age, inappropriate by today’s standards, was legal in that era, and some women married in their mid-teens. Helen Mar Kimball spoke of her sealing to Joseph as being “for eternity alone,” suggesting that the relationship did not involve sexual relations. After Joseph’s death, Helen remarried and became an articulate defender of him and of plural marriage.

Following his marriage to Louisa Beaman and before he married other single women, Joseph Smith was sealed to a number of women who were already married. Neither these women nor Joseph explained much about these sealings, though several women said they were for eternity alone. Other women left no records, making it unknown whether their sealings were for time and eternity or were for eternity alone.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The Ultimate Pigmy Thread

Post by freedomforall »

See! One native, African man and one native, African woman w/offspring.
Pigmies1.jpg
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