God has a body of flesh and bone... or does he...

[Alaris]

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

"Thine they were." Why? Because Elohim ransomed them with His grace. These are the priests forever after the order of Melchizedek.

John 5: 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

I used to think this meant Jehovah watched Elohim's Saving of His creation by revelation. I now believe Jesus was there as one of His disciples.

D&C 93:12 And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace;

13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;

14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first.

Jesus went from grace to grace. Someone posted an awesome quote on this earlier in the thread where Brother Joseph explains this doctrine. Jesus went from one "grace" to another "grace." What is grace? It is the power by which we are saved and become His. Jesus received the fullness by receiving grace while He perfected Himself.

D&C 93:20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

In other words you will be mine the SAME WAY as I am the father's. You will receive someone else's grace to prepare your grace the same way I did.

Revelation 3: 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Those who receive the Lord's new name....gives me chills thinking about this.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son

The word "overcometh" is mentioned 8 times in Revelation which is not a coincidence. This is the path to godhood our father took and the one Jesus took and the one we must all take.

I know many LDS struggle with this idea...that there were Saviors before and we must become Saviors first and descend below all before we will be handed the keys to all. These scriptutes are clear in their simplicity.

3 Nephi 12:48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

We must become perfect in the same way. Jesus had a resurrected body before He ascended and inherited all.He now refers to Himself as perfect as Father is. The Father has a body and received it by the same path and plan. Remeber John 5:19 above and the King Follett quote from earlier in this thread:

The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do we believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods
have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.

Attain not obtain.

at·tain
verb
succeed in achieving (something that one desires and has worked for).

One does not work for the resurrection unless one is The Savior.

D&C 93: 33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.
35 The elements are the tabernacle of God;

[Spaced_Out]

[
Great! We have an accord! The standard works say the following about God:
Peace,
Amonhi

Yes that includes section 130 which is indisputable. And current doctrine and interpretation by the prophets of God. Taught and confirmed by every LDS prophet.

[Spaced_Out]

I suppose everyone has their own view of a Supreme God, his makeup, personality, characteristics, methods of operation and even his shape and stature.

I just want to pose a question. If God, as a supreme being says to us: this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, then how and why would he create flesh for man so they can become perfect...and him stay in spirit? This makes no sense at all, whatsoever.

He tells us to become as perfect as he is. JS Matt 5:50, which says:

Ye are therefore commanded to be perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Now as far as I understand we cannot be perfect without a spirit, coupled with a body.

Why would the Supreme God tell us we are created in his image and likeness, and even going to such great lengths to create bodies for us, and him remain in spirit alone. If Heavenly Father is perfect, and expects us to become as perfect as he is...he must have a body of flesh and bones as well. He would be imperfect without one. Otherwise, why is he so adamant about us being able to resurrected and gloried IN BODY AND SPIRIT never to be divided again?

Doctrine and Covenants 138:17
17 Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy

If Father has no body of flesh and bone how can he have a fullness of joy, yet expect us to have one in order to have a fullness of joy?

God does not lie, nor live a double standard. Where does he say "do as I say, not what I do?"

Yip and in 3 Nephi it states be ye therefor perfect even as I or your Father in heaven. Why because he had been resurrected and was made perfect.
Amonhi has no other objective but to preach false doctrine and break down the only true and living Church the LDS church. His motives and desire are evil in nature. Modern prophets have made it very clear God the Father and his Son (Jesus Christ) our elder brother are distinct individuals with distinct personality with physical body and can only be in one place at one time. Likewise the HG can only be in one place at one time, but through the power of the PH their influence if throughout the universe. It is not difficult to understand and there is no contradiction in the bible.

When the scriptures talk about man being perfect it refers to living within the law that we have been given. Likewise in the temple we are foreordained to become gods if we keep the law - that in the heavens we can attain that position. Being made a god is nothing more than a PH ordinance. ie. one day if you live the law you will be called up and ordained to the PH office of a God or Goddess. Our Heavenly Father our supreme creator also has a Father and so the pattern goes on for all eternity. There are no supreme creators that do not have bodies of flesh and bone. If people live the law they can obtain the same to think otherwise is to imagine another plan of salvation and follow the evil one.

[Kitkat]

I didn't see this verse quoted above. This seems, to me, to be the ultimate mystery.

D&C 88:

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

All things are [made?] by Him and [made?] of Him. Everything is made of God? God is the most basic particle or energy (alpha)? All the universe is God (omega)? The universe is the ultimate God? The ultimate Father?

Don't ask me.

This God ^^^^ is the Supreme/Universal God. It is the God we are trying to become one with. Anyone who becomes a god, does so by aligning themselves with the Supreme God. It is not a body of flesh and bones- it gets that in mortality.

Then you have the Godhead which consists of:

Holy Ghost: Jehovah, the spirit body of the premortal Jesus
Son:Mortal Jesus with physical body
Father: Resurrected Jesus with body of flesh and bones

I believe we each have these components, too. We have a:

Holy Ghost: your premortal spirit which has already attained the status of god by completing the first estate

Son/Daughter: you in your second estate right now in mortality

Father/Mother: your higher self, exalted and resurrected in its 3rd estate

So it seems Jesus became a "God the Father" just as I can become a "Butterfly the Mother" but this is different than when Jesus refers to His Father which is in and through all things. We all have this same father.

Just my thoughts...

Butterfly Thanks for sharing! Maybe it would be helpful to define the word God. Anyone want to try?

[janderich]

The "ultimate light" as some call it is the God Source or Source God, All God, Universal God, God of Gods, whatever you want to call it. God the Father and any God that has a body of flesh and bones is in one place at any given time as is Jesus Christ. But the God of Gods literally IS ALL things. It makes up all things. Here is a scripture talking about this God.

40 For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

A body of flesh and bones cannot meet the criteria of being "in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things". Also, notice the interesting wording that says, "all things are by him, and of him, even God"...

If it were talking about the Father of our spirits, that has a glorified body of flesh and bone, then it doesn't make sense to say that "all things are (made) by him, and (made) of him, even God.

There are many Gods, but there is a God of Gods. God the Father of our spirits can fall if He were to act contrary to truth. This means that some other being or principle is the judge of God the Father. That is why the verse says, "judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things." Something governs God our Father and that something is the Eternal God or God of Gods which is a spirit that in in all things and of all things and through all things and round about all things. It knows all things because it is ever present with them. All things are by this God of Gods. It existed before God the Father of our Spirits was exalted.

The Father of our spirits is not and cannot be the God that created all things because there was creation before he was a God and when he was in His mortal probation working our his exaltation, there was a God who was the Father of his spirit, and a world on which he lived and stars and planets and animals and plants and all mannor of created things that he did not create. This is just as it will be when we are Gods and our children are wondering about us and considering how we created all things, even God...

Peace,
Amonhi

Always interesting thoughts Amonhi. However, the head God, or Source God as you say, is not a being without form and substance who is "all things". Such teaching has gone far away from truth. All beings in the universe have form and substance. They are in one place at one time. That includes plants, animals, humans, and Gods - be they great or small. They are composed of matter be that the more course substance of this earth or the more refined substance we call spirit. It is all matter, and all beings are composed of matter.

That which is in all things is called "holy spirit" or the "light of Christ" or a number of other terms. It is in large part a mystery, however we have been given some insight. Elder Widtsoe described it in these terms, "It is a spirit of intelligence that permeates the universe and gives understanding to the spirits of men. The phenomena of existence are but expressions of this divine medium." (Evidences and Reconciliations, Section II Ch7). Note the term, divine medium. This medium is not God, but God partakes of it just as do we when we when we say we are "filled with the spirit" or when we use the spirit to effect change in the physical world. It is through this medium that God communicates which his children and is in all and through all. But please do not make the gross mistake of believing that this medium is God, such would be utter folly.

[inho]

Some of the ideas in this thread about the noncorporeal Supreme God bear resemblance to the heretical ideas of Orson and Parley P. Pratt. Orson's take on Holy Spirit was part of the reason why Brigham Young condemned his publication, The Seer. (You can read about Pratt's ideas here, here and here.)

[freedomforall]

Maybe it would be helpful to define the word God. Anyone want to try?

Here is a list of attributes of what God is. I don't think it fair to completely define God without people doing their own research. By doing one's own research, the truth of those learnings will mean much more that merely hearing it.

God, Omniscience of
God saw … every imagination of the thoughts of his heart: Gen. 6:5 .
Lord is a God of knowledge: 1 Sam. 2:3 .
Lord looketh on the heart: 1 Sam. 16:7 .
Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all: 1 Chr. 28:9 .
he knoweth the way that I take: Job 23:10 .
Lord knoweth the thoughts of man: Ps. 94:11 .
Great is our Lord … his understanding is infinite: Ps. 147:5 .
eyes of the Lord are in every place: Prov. 15:3 .
I know their works and their thoughts: Isa. 66:18 .
I know the things that come into your mind: Ezek. 11:5 .
your Father knoweth what things ye have need of: Matt. 6:8 .
Jesus knowing their thoughts said: Matt. 9:4 .
are we sure that thou knowest all things: John 16:30 .
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning: Acts 15:18 . ( 1 Ne. 9:6 . )
wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable: Rom. 11:33 .
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom: Col. 2:3 .
word of God … is a discerner of the thoughts: Heb. 4:12 .
wisdom of him who knoweth all things: 2 Ne. 2:24 .
God … knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows: 2 Ne. 9:20 . ( Morm. 8:17 ; D&C 127:2 . )
he knows all the thoughts and intents of the heart: Alma 18:32 . ( D&C 6:16 . )
all wisdom, and all understanding; he comprehendeth all things: Alma 26:35 .
ye cannot hide your crimes from God: Alma 39:8 .
except he was a god he could not know of all things: Hel. 9:41 .
God knowing all things, being from everlasting: Moro. 7:22 .
I have told you things which no man knoweth: D&C 6:24 . ( D&C 15:3 . )
knoweth all things, for all things are present before mine eyes: D&C 38:2 .
whose hearts I know: D&C 67:1 .
he comprehended all things, that he might be in all: D&C 88:6 . ( D&C 88:41 . )
all things are present with me, for I know them all: Moses 1:6 .
I know the end from the beginning: Abr. 2:8 .

God, Wisdom of
God is mighty … in strength and wisdom: Job 36:5 .
To him that by wisdom made the heavens: Ps. 136:5 .
Lord giveth wisdom: Prov. 2:6 .
Jesus increased in wisdom and stature: Luke 2:52 .
foolishness of God is wiser than men: 1 Cor. 1:25 .
wisdom of this world is foolishness with God: 1 Cor. 3:19 .
O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace: 2 Ne. 9:8 .
he counseleth in wisdom: Jacob 4:10 .
he has all wisdom … man doth not comprehend all … the Lord can comprehend: Mosiah 4:9 .
my God … has all power, all wisdom: Alma 26:35 .
my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil: D&C 10:43 .
that I might show forth my wisdom through the weak: D&C 124:1 .

God https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/god-2 ... g&letter=g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[butterfly]

I didn't see this verse quoted above. This seems, to me, to be the ultimate mystery.

D&C 88:

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

All things are [made?] by Him and [made?] of Him. Everything is made of God? God is the most basic particle or energy (alpha)? All the universe is God (omega)? The universe is the ultimate God? The ultimate Father?

Don't ask me.

This God ^^^^ is the Supreme/Universal God. It is the God we are trying to become one with. Anyone who becomes a god, does so by aligning themselves with the Supreme God. It is not a body of flesh and bones- it gets that in mortality.

Then you have the Godhead which consists of:

Holy Ghost: Jehovah, the spirit body of the premortal Jesus
Son:Mortal Jesus with physical body
Father: Resurrected Jesus with body of flesh and bones

I believe we each have these components, too. We have a:

Holy Ghost: your premortal spirit which has already attained the status of god by completing the first estate

Son/Daughter: you in your second estate right now in mortality

Father/Mother: your higher self, exalted and resurrected in its 3rd estate

So it seems Jesus became a "God the Father" just as I can become a "Butterfly the Mother" but this is different than when Jesus refers to His Father which is in and through all things. We all have this same father.

Just my thoughts...

Butterfly Thanks for sharing! Maybe it would be helpful to define the word God. Anyone want to try?

My current thinking is that we achieve the status of godhood anytime we complete the requirements for the estate we are in. So when we progress as far as necessary to complete our first estate, then our spirits are gods. When we progress as far as necessary to complete our second estates, our bodies are then gods with our spirits. I'm wondering if completing our 3rd estate involves resurrection, since you don't need a resurrected body to obtain god-status in the 2nd estate.

So basically becoming a god may mean completing the necessary requirements that enable you to continue progressing to the next estate.

[butterfly]

@Amonhi, I'm understanding that when we pray, we should address the Supreme God, who is the spirit God described in Lectures on Faith. Then when we close, we are closing in the name of Jesus Christ, who is not only our Savior, but also Jehovah, and the father of our spirits - the person that most lds imagine as "Heavenly Father"- meaning God the Father who created our spirits with God the Mother.

[Jeremy]

Maybe it would be helpful to define the word God. Anyone want to try?

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

[Jeremy]

...Then when we close, we are closing in the name of Jesus Christ...

Maybe the name we are to take upon ourselves is "Christ". And maybe once we take upon that name, "whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you". Maybe we don't need to close "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen" but rather maybe we are to ask the father while having the name of Christ upon ourselves? Maybe.

[Alaris]

I didn't see this verse quoted above. This seems, to me, to be the ultimate mystery.

D&C 88:


All things are [made?] by Him and [made?] of Him. Everything is made of God? God is the most basic particle or energy (alpha)? All the universe is God (omega)? The universe is the ultimate God? The ultimate Father?

Don't ask me.

This God ^^^^ is the Supreme/Universal God. It is the God we are trying to become one with. Anyone who becomes a god, does so by aligning themselves with the Supreme God. It is not a body of flesh and bones- it gets that in mortality.

Then you have the Godhead which consists of:

Holy Ghost: Jehovah, the spirit body of the premortal Jesus
Son:Mortal Jesus with physical body
Father: Resurrected Jesus with body of flesh and bones

I believe we each have these components, too. We have a:

Holy Ghost: your premortal spirit which has already attained the status of god by completing the first estate

Son/Daughter: you in your second estate right now in mortality

Father/Mother: your higher self, exalted and resurrected in its 3rd estate

So it seems Jesus became a "God the Father" just as I can become a "Butterfly the Mother" but this is different than when Jesus refers to His Father which is in and through all things. We all have this same father.

Just my thoughts...

Butterfly Thanks for sharing! Maybe it would be helpful to define the word God. Anyone want to try?

My current thinking is that we achieve the status of godhood anytime we complete the requirements for the estate we are in. So when we progress as far as necessary to complete our first estate, then our spirits are gods. When we progress as far as necessary to complete our second estates, our bodies are then gods with our spirits. I'm wondering if completing our 3rd estate involves resurrection, since you don't need a resurrected body to obtain god-status in the 2nd estate.

So basically becoming a god may mean completing the necessary requirements that enable you to continue progressing to the next estate.

We are ordained as such in the temple. There is another great thread on the identity of the Holy Ghost. Godhood is definitely a participatory power. We exercise the Priesthood. The baptismal covenant is to comfort and witness (see Mosiah18.) Those are the duties of the Holy Ghost.

We become Saviors.....on mount zion through temple work--participating in the Lord's work.

We will go down and we will take of these materials and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell (Abraham 3.) Were we a part of "we?" Maybe but it was certainly a group participating in God's creative power.

Having a child and a family is participation in godhood.

That said I do not believe we receive the title "Gods" in each estate. I believe one must make the first ascension to then descend into a new creation as one of the noble and great ones to receive such a title.

[freedomforall]

...Then when we close, we are closing in the name of Jesus Christ...

Maybe the name we are to take upon ourselves is "Christ". And maybe once we take upon that name, "whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you". Maybe we don't need to close "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen" but rather maybe we are to ask the father while having the name of Christ upon ourselves? Maybe.

Mormon 9:29
29 See that ye are not baptized unworthily; see that ye partake not of the sacrament of Christ unworthily; but see that ye do all things in worthiness, and do it in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God; and if ye do this, and endure to the end, ye will in nowise be cast out.

[freedomforall]

My current thinking is that we achieve the status of godhood anytime we complete the requirements for the estate we are in. So when we progress as far as necessary to complete our first estate, then our spirits are gods. When we progress as far as necessary to complete our second estates, our bodies are then gods with our spirits. I'm wondering if completing our 3rd estate involves resurrection, since you don't need a resurrected body to obtain god-status in the 2nd estate.

So basically becoming a god may mean completing the necessary requirements that enable you to continue progressing to the next estate.

Here is how Marion G Romney puts it:

We know that we kept our first estate because we are here in mortality, and by receiving our bodies we have been added upon. We further know that the gospel teaches us how we must keep this, our second estate, in order that in the next life, the third estate, we may “have glory added upon [our] heads for ever and ever.”
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Psalm 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are (a)children of the most High.

6 (a) children
TG Man, a Spirit Child of Heavenly Father; Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father; Sons and Daughters of God; Spirit Creation.

[Kitkat]

Maybe it would be helpful to define the word God. Anyone want to try?

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

I think this ^^^^ is a great starting point for defining God. It totally just reminded me of playing 20 questions with my kids. For instance I picked "hello kitty" as my object. My kids wanted to know how big it was...so yeah, it can be as small as an eraser or as big as a tree... They were trying to guess the color...sometimes it's white and sometimes it's rainbow :p Sometimes I feel like I am playing 20 questions with the scriptures when I am trying to nail down a thought or idea.

[butterfly]

...Then when we close, we are closing in the name of Jesus Christ...

Maybe the name we are to take upon ourselves is "Christ". And maybe once we take upon that name, "whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you". Maybe we don't need to close "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen" but rather maybe we are to ask the father while having the name of Christ upon ourselves? Maybe.

Yes, I completely agree, thank you for pointing that out. Actually what I was trying to focus on is our spiritual lineage. If we originated as part of the intelligence of the Supreme God that is in all things and through all things, then why did we become spirit people?
Please understand, I'm not trying to get caught up in specifics. My reason for asking is this: If I originally came from the Supreme God, then it seems that I would one day become like that Parent God.

If I were to believe like most lds do, that my Heavenly Father has a physical body like mine, then it makes sense to believe that I will progress to having a glorified physical body of flesh and bone.

However, understanding that the Supreme God is a spirit changes my understanding of our progression. There are religions that teach that after we die, our spirits become reunited with the Supreme God, our consciousness merges or melts into the consciousness of all life. We do not gain physical bodies again.

So how do we reconcile coming from a spirit God but not progressing to become like Him?

Jehovah/Jesus Christ becomes our Father as the result of our covenant relationship with Him.
But what about our parents by birth? Were we organized by the Supreme God, kind of like if you were making dolls out of playdough? What do we mean when we say we are children of God? Is that a covenant relationship or a literal one?
If it's a literal one, then there must be physical parents who sired us, which would mean we don't actually come directly from the Supreme God.

[Kitkat]

Here is something that is intriguing to me - our bodies of flesh and bone are made up of the elements right? So does that mean all those little tiny bits of intelligence become a part of my intelligence? Is that part of having dominion over all things? Does the resurrection change this? Transfiguration? After we die out bodies go back to being dust and just thinking about all the people that have lived on the planet, it seems like the much of our planet has been recycled and we will lose some serious top soil on the morning of the first resurrection...

[butterfly]

After we die out bodies go back to being dust and just thinking about all the people that have lived on the planet, it seems like the much of our planet has been recycled and we will lose some serious top soil on the morning of the first resurrection...

=))

When you think about it, you have the same amount of soil, water, and sunlight on the earth when you plant a seed as you do after that seed has grown into a 100ft tall tree. You won't find 100 feet of soil missing or gallons of water missing from the water cycle or a shortage of sun because that tree grew so big.
So how does it grow? The energy is alive and has its own life force that allows it to expand. Of course, living in telestial conditions we have to supplement the growth process with food to convert into energy, but even so, the tree can grow 100s of feet tall and you'll still have the same amount of soil, water, and sun on the earth.

I think the same applies with our bodies. We won't say "people need to stop having kids, there's not enough dirt to make new bodies." Our bodies grow because the energy and life force within us is intelligent and able to multiply on its own.

[Spaced_Out]

After we die out bodies go back to being dust and just thinking about all the people that have lived on the planet, it seems like the much of our planet has been recycled and we will lose some serious top soil on the morning of the first resurrection...

=))

When you think about it, you have the same amount of soil, water, and sunlight on the earth when you plant a seed as you do after that seed has grown into a 100ft tall tree. You won't find 100 feet of soil missing or gallons of water missing from the water cycle or a shortage of sun because that tree grew so big.
So how does it grow? The energy is alive and has its own life force that allows it to expand. Of course, living in telestial conditions we have to supplement the growth process with food to convert into energy, but even so, the tree can grow 100s of feet tall and you'll still have the same amount of soil, water, and sun on the earth.

I think the same applies with our bodies. We won't say "people need to stop having kids, there's not enough dirt to make new bodies." Our bodies grow because the energy and life force within us is intelligent and able to multiply on its own.

You are seriously confused +98% of the dry weight of plants is carbon absorbed from the atmosphere, there is no magic energy - it comes from the sun and is called photosynthesis, a very well know and documented process.

Yes our bodies going back to dust and our spirits chilling in the spirit world is a preparation for the resurrection. It is a purification of our elements prior to the resurrection.

[Spaced_Out]

Here is something that is intriguing to me - our bodies of flesh and bone are made up of the elements right? So does that mean all those little tiny bits of intelligence become a part of my intelligence? Is that part of having dominion over all things? Does the resurrection change this? Transfiguration? After we die out bodies go back to being dust and just thinking about all the people that have lived on the planet, it seems like the much of our planet has been recycled and we will lose some serious top soil on the morning of the first resurrection...

No, Not all elements are intelligence, the dust does indeed belong to God.. Only living things have intelligence. The earth does have a spirit and intelligence - part of the earth spirit does not go into you. There are different levels of intelligence one of animals one of plants one of planets, and one of man etc.... they can't be mixed or merged.
It is like every time you cut your fingernails or hair - part of your spirit does not leave your body. LOL if we had to get all of that back we would have a problem in the resurrection. So dust and other elements don't contain spirits. Don't worry the dust mites living in the soil will be spared and not merged with us.

I find on this forum huge confusion on basic things dealing with the plan of salvation.

[butterfly]

After we die out bodies go back to being dust and just thinking about all the people that have lived on the planet, it seems like the much of our planet has been recycled and we will lose some serious top soil on the morning of the first resurrection...

=))

When you think about it, you have the same amount of soil, water, and sunlight on the earth when you plant a seed as you do after that seed has grown into a 100ft tall tree. You won't find 100 feet of soil missing or gallons of water missing from the water cycle or a shortage of sun because that tree grew so big.
So how does it grow? The energy is alive and has its own life force that allows it to expand. Of course, living in telestial conditions we have to supplement the growth process with food to convert into energy, but even so, the tree can grow 100s of feet tall and you'll still have the same amount of soil, water, and sun on the earth.

I think the same applies with our bodies. We won't say "people need to stop having kids, there's not enough dirt to make new bodies." Our bodies grow because the energy and life force within us is intelligent and able to multiply on its own.

You are seriously confused +98% of the dry weight of plants is carbon absorbed from the atmosphere, there is no magic energy - it comes from the sun and is called photosynthesis, a very well know and documented process.

Yes our bodies going back to dust and our spirits chilling in the spirit world is a preparation for the resurrection. It is a purification of our elements prior to the resurrection.

Lol,one day you and I will find something we agree on...til then, I appreciate learning about your views.

So you believe the resurrection will include a person's literal decaying body from the ground?

[Spaced_Out]

After we die out bodies go back to being dust and just thinking about all the people that have lived on the planet, it seems like the much of our planet has been recycled and we will lose some serious top soil on the morning of the first resurrection...

=))

When you think about it, you have the same amount of soil, water, and sunlight on the earth when you plant a seed as you do after that seed has grown into a 100ft tall tree. You won't find 100 feet of soil missing or gallons of water missing from the water cycle or a shortage of sun because that tree grew so big.
So how does it grow? The energy is alive and has its own life force that allows it to expand. Of course, living in telestial conditions we have to supplement the growth process with food to convert into energy, but even so, the tree can grow 100s of feet tall and you'll still have the same amount of soil, water, and sun on the earth.

I think the same applies with our bodies. We won't say "people need to stop having kids, there's not enough dirt to make new bodies." Our bodies grow because the energy and life force within us is intelligent and able to multiply on its own.

You are seriously confused +98% of the dry weight of plants is carbon absorbed from the atmosphere, there is no magic energy - it comes from the sun and is called photosynthesis, a very well know and documented process.

Yes our bodies going back to dust and our spirits chilling in the spirit world is a preparation for the resurrection. It is a purification of our elements prior to the resurrection.

Lol,one day you and I will find something we agree on...til then, I appreciate learning about your views.

So you believe the resurrection will include a person's literal decaying body from the ground?

Elements of it will be reformed into our immortal body. There is 'no such thing as immaterial matter' so the elements have to come from somewhere. There have been a few recorded resurrections and in all cases the persons mortal body was part of the process.
Resurrection is a PH ordinance you go to the persons remains and preform the 'resurrection spell''' ok the ordinance and they get their bodies back. It was discussed recently in GC. where it was stated that the key's to resurrection have not been given to us on earth. It might be given in the millennium as all person inheriting a celestial and terrestrial estate will be resurrected during the millennium..

[Spaced_Out]

Lol,one day you and I will find something we agree on...til then, I appreciate learning about your views.

I am sure we agree in more things than we disagree. I know I am a bit dictatorial and in you face type of person. It is mostly not personal (a bit of an exception with few on this forum). I have strong opinions on doctrine and don't like confusion and post things to give other readers a balanced view so in my opinion these kings of threads are not overrun by doctrines that are not part of official LDS teachings and casual onlookers faith won't be taken down by there been no response to false things.

[janderich]

...Then when we close, we are closing in the name of Jesus Christ...

Maybe the name we are to take upon ourselves is "Christ". And maybe once we take upon that name, "whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you". Maybe we don't need to close "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen" but rather maybe we are to ask the father while having the name of Christ upon ourselves? Maybe.

Yes, I completely agree, thank you for pointing that out. Actually what I was trying to focus on is our spiritual lineage. If we originated as part of the intelligence of the Supreme God that is in all things and through all things, then why did we become spirit people?
Please understand, I'm not trying to get caught up in specifics. My reason for asking is this: If I originally came from the Supreme God, then it seems that I would one day become like that Parent God.

If I were to believe like most lds do, that my Heavenly Father has a physical body like mine, then it makes sense to believe that I will progress to having a glorified physical body of flesh and bone.

However, understanding that the Supreme God is a spirit changes my understanding of our progression. There are religions that teach that after we die, our spirits become reunited with the Supreme God, our consciousness merges or melts into the consciousness of all life. We do not gain physical bodies again.

So how do we reconcile coming from a spirit God but not progressing to become like Him?

Jehovah/Jesus Christ becomes our Father as the result of our covenant relationship with Him.
But what about our parents by birth? Were we organized by the Supreme God, kind of like if you were making dolls out of playdough? What do we mean when we say we are children of God? Is that a covenant relationship or a literal one?
If it's a literal one, then there must be physical parents who sired us, which would mean we don't actually come directly from the Supreme God.

Butterfly, This is precisely the problem with Amonhi's heretical notion that the supreme God is spirit and dwells in us and in all things. In fact the heresy is not even very unique. It's simply the Christian notion that God is large enough to fill the universe but small enough to dwell within our hearts, except in Amonhi's version he simply pushes the notion up a number of levels to the "Supreme God".

This error can raise all sorts of questions that you have brought up like, what does progression mean? Do we likewise become spirit which is in all and through all? Joseph debunked this notion a long time ago. In quoting John he said, "'Father, I pray not for the world, but I pray for them which thou hast given me. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we are.' All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism [or Amonhiism]. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster."

As I previously stated in this thread, "Holy Spirit, or the "light of Christ" is a medium through which holy beings work. Through this medium they can communicate with their children, through it miracles are wrought, through it the worlds are and were created. But there is not some monster God who is "Spirit". Nor does man come from this monster God or combine with him in any way.

[freedomforall]

The Pattern of Our Parentage Boyd K Packer

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1984/11/the- ... sten=audio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;