God has a body of flesh and bone... or does he...

[Amonhi]

A friend sent this to me today,

There is a lot of LDS Doctrine, not only in the mainstream LDS Church but also in the Remnant Movement, which relies upon what is taught about the nature of God in D&C 130:22. Does everyone realize how much scripture that one verse contradicts? Did anyone realize that Joseph Smith actually sought to correct the individual who originally taught what was in that verse?
I saw this information written in another blog post and thought I would share it here and get some thoughts as to why Joseph Smith sought to correct the person who taught it and ultimately was responsible for adding it to the D&C over 30 years after Joseph died?
Elder Orson Pratt and Elder Orson Hyde added it to the Doctrine and Covenants in 1876. It came from a series of talks that Orson Hyde gave in the presence of Joseph Smith in 1842. Some of the items that Orson Hyde spoke on were not accurate, such that it required a private correction by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith Papers, Journals, Volume 2 page 324, on April 2, 1842, Joseph recorded:
“Elder Hyde I am going to offer some corrections to you. Elder Hyde replied – they shall be thankfully received. – When he (Christ) shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he (Christ) is a man like ourselves. – (Parenthesis added).
This is consistent with the Lectures on Faith. The Son (Christ) is a man, a ‘tabernacle of clay’. Just like us. However, later on, Joseph records the following on page 326:
“There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven. Before the foundation of the world upon which all blessings are predicted and when we obtain a blessing it is by obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated. Again reverted to Elder Hyde’s mistake. &c the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. – and a person cannot have the personage . It may descend upon him but not to tarry with him.— (Bold and Italics added)
“So the clincher here, the way Joseph Wrote in his Journal is he elaborated on “Elder Hyde’s mistake”, by writing. “&c”. I had to look this up, but &c is another way to write Etc. Normally we would write this after the sentence. However, Joseph Used it before the sentence, in fact it starts the sentence, listing Elder Hyde’s mistake. What was Elder Hydes mistake? Amongst other things (&c): the Father having a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans the son also and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. I assert that Joseph was trying to lay out to Elder Hyde, that to know God, you must know correctly about God. Then preceded to correct his errors, which errors, he listed for us in his Journal.”
“In Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith Clearly states that God is a SPIRIT OF GLORY AND POWER, and further that the HOLY SPIRIT IS THE MIND OF GOD.”
The Joseph Smith Papers captures this incident with Joseph correcting Elder Hyde on the Godhead: http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/…/jour ... r-1842…/50
Section 130:22 was one of the things at odds with those brethren on the committee that decided to remove the Lectures on Faith from the D&C in 1921 without a vote. They felt that the description Joseph gave of the Father in lecture on Faith chapter 5 (?) was at odds with what was in section 130:22, which apparently was added to the D&C sometime after Joseph and Hyrum were slain.

Now, as to what Scriptures that D&C 130:22 contradict:
Alma 34: 34-38
2 Nephi 4: 12
John 14:10, 16-17, 19-20, 23
Acts 7: 48
1 Cor 3:16-17
1 Cor 12: 11-14
2 Cor 6: 14-16
Eph 3: 17, 19
D&C 93: 17, 35
D&C 88: 47-50, 66
2 Tim 1:14
1 John 4: 12-16
Heb 10: 19-20
2 Cor 3: 12-18
Helaman 4: 24
Jonah 2: 4, 7
Psalms 18: 6
Mosiah 15: 1-5

Here is the quote from the LOF...

"The Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a person-age of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man—or rather, man was formed after his likeness and in his image.

Other supporting verses:

3 Nephi chapter 1:14 Behold, I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son—of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

This line of thinking is very interesting...

John 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away [Jesus or The Father in His physical form manifested in the Telestial World]: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Why?

Moses 5:9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.

What are your thoughts? How do you interpret all the scriptures that seem to contradict D&C130:22?

Is God a spirit?

Peace,
Amonhi

[Melissa]

I would assume you would have more answers to offer than questions concerning this.

God is as much a spirit as you or I. That's what I understand. There is much we don't know yet but we are taught that God has a body and has once lived as a motal man having been made perfect in time.

[Thomas]

There is the option that God the Father has a body of flesh and bone but that body is made of spirit matter. That is my current understanding.

A tabernacle being a temporary structure is what Christ had on earth and what we now have.

[jdt]

It is generally just easiest to ignore scriptures/quotes that may counter what I hold to be true and use ones that support my position.
For instance, from the King Follett Discourse:

The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do we believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods
have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.

That seems pretty definitive to me (that God attained to the resurrection like Jesus did).
I will also throw out that all spirit is matter too (D&C 131:7-8). There is some distinction, but it seems to be less than most make of it. Given that, I would say that spirit and tabernacle are at least on the same continuum.
Standard disclaimer: I have been wrong about a great many things in the past and fully expect to continue to be wrong (but hopefully becoming more right over time).

[TrueIntent]

A friend sent this to me today,

There is a lot of LDS Doctrine, not only in the mainstream LDS Church but also in the Remnant Movement, which relies upon what is taught about the nature of God in D&C 130:22. Does everyone realize how much scripture that one verse contradicts? Did anyone realize that Joseph Smith actually sought to correct the individual who originally taught what was in that verse?
I saw this information written in another blog post and thought I would share it here and get some thoughts as to why Joseph Smith sought to correct the person who taught it and ultimately was responsible for adding it to the D&C over 30 years after Joseph died?
Elder Orson Pratt and Elder Orson Hyde added it to the Doctrine and Covenants in 1876. It came from a series of talks that Orson Hyde gave in the presence of Joseph Smith in 1842. Some of the items that Orson Hyde spoke on were not accurate, such that it required a private correction by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith Papers, Journals, Volume 2 page 324, on April 2, 1842, Joseph recorded:
“Elder Hyde I am going to offer some corrections to you. Elder Hyde replied – they shall be thankfully received. – When he (Christ) shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he (Christ) is a man like ourselves. – (Parenthesis added).
This is consistent with the Lectures on Faith. The Son (Christ) is a man, a ‘tabernacle of clay’. Just like us. However, later on, Joseph records the following on page 326:
“There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven. Before the foundation of the world upon which all blessings are predicted and when we obtain a blessing it is by obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated. Again reverted to Elder Hyde’s mistake. &c the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. – and a person cannot have the personage . It may descend upon him but not to tarry with him.— (Bold and Italics added)
“So the clincher here, the way Joseph Wrote in his Journal is he elaborated on “Elder Hyde’s mistake”, by writing. “&c”. I had to look this up, but &c is another way to write Etc. Normally we would write this after the sentence. However, Joseph Used it before the sentence, in fact it starts the sentence, listing Elder Hyde’s mistake. What was Elder Hydes mistake? Amongst other things (&c): the Father having a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans the son also and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. I assert that Joseph was trying to lay out to Elder Hyde, that to know God, you must know correctly about God. Then preceded to correct his errors, which errors, he listed for us in his Journal.”
“In Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith Clearly states that God is a SPIRIT OF GLORY AND POWER, and further that the HOLY SPIRIT IS THE MIND OF GOD.”
The Joseph Smith Papers captures this incident with Joseph correcting Elder Hyde on the Godhead: http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/…/jour ... r-1842…/50
Section 130:22 was one of the things at odds with those brethren on the committee that decided to remove the Lectures on Faith from the D&C in 1921 without a vote. They felt that the description Joseph gave of the Father in lecture on Faith chapter 5 (?) was at odds with what was in section 130:22, which apparently was added to the D&C sometime after Joseph and Hyrum were slain.

Now, as to what Scriptures that D&C 130:22 contradict:
Alma 34: 34-38
2 Nephi 4: 12
John 14:10, 16-17, 19-20, 23
Acts 7: 48
1 Cor 3:16-17
1 Cor 12: 11-14
2 Cor 6: 14-16
Eph 3: 17, 19
D&C 93: 17, 35
D&C 88: 47-50, 66
2 Tim 1:14
1 John 4: 12-16
Heb 10: 19-20
2 Cor 3: 12-18
Helaman 4: 24
Jonah 2: 4, 7
Psalms 18: 6
Mosiah 15: 1-5

Here is the quote from the LOF...

"The Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a person-age of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man—or rather, man was formed after his likeness and in his image.

Other supporting verses:

3 Nephi chapter 1:14 Behold, I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son—of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

This line of thinking is very interesting...

John 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away [Jesus or The Father in His physical form manifested in the Telestial World]: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Why?

Moses 5:9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.

What are your thoughts? How do you interpret all the scriptures that seem to contradict D&C130:22?

Is God a spirit?

Peace,
Amonhi

I was praying about the answer to this this week...I'll take this discussion as a sign. It sounds like...if I throw out section 130....that the Holy Ghost, which is spirit, bears record of the father and the son....and the Holy Ghost is saying that he is Jesus Christ. So there is the tabernacle version which is Jesus Christ, and there is the spirit version which is God the father. And the spirit version is the comforter which is the Holy Ghost....meaning god, Jesus,and the Holy Ghost are one, and are the same in purpose, and the same mind exactly because they are the same as me potentionally.....have you heard of the higher self rationale?

[Dave62]

No.

[Robin Hood]

A friend sent this to me today,

There is a lot of LDS Doctrine, not only in the mainstream LDS Church but also in the Remnant Movement, which relies upon what is taught about the nature of God in D&C 130:22. Does everyone realize how much scripture that one verse contradicts? Did anyone realize that Joseph Smith actually sought to correct the individual who originally taught what was in that verse?
I saw this information written in another blog post and thought I would share it here and get some thoughts as to why Joseph Smith sought to correct the person who taught it and ultimately was responsible for adding it to the D&C over 30 years after Joseph died?
Elder Orson Pratt and Elder Orson Hyde added it to the Doctrine and Covenants in 1876. It came from a series of talks that Orson Hyde gave in the presence of Joseph Smith in 1842. Some of the items that Orson Hyde spoke on were not accurate, such that it required a private correction by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith Papers, Journals, Volume 2 page 324, on April 2, 1842, Joseph recorded:
“Elder Hyde I am going to offer some corrections to you. Elder Hyde replied – they shall be thankfully received. – When he (Christ) shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he (Christ) is a man like ourselves. – (Parenthesis added).
This is consistent with the Lectures on Faith. The Son (Christ) is a man, a ‘tabernacle of clay’. Just like us. However, later on, Joseph records the following on page 326:
“There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven. Before the foundation of the world upon which all blessings are predicted and when we obtain a blessing it is by obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated. Again reverted to Elder Hyde’s mistake. &c the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. – and a person cannot have the personage . It may descend upon him but not to tarry with him.— (Bold and Italics added)
“So the clincher here, the way Joseph Wrote in his Journal is he elaborated on “Elder Hyde’s mistake”, by writing. “&c”. I had to look this up, but &c is another way to write Etc. Normally we would write this after the sentence. However, Joseph Used it before the sentence, in fact it starts the sentence, listing Elder Hyde’s mistake. What was Elder Hydes mistake? Amongst other things (&c): the Father having a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans the son also and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. I assert that Joseph was trying to lay out to Elder Hyde, that to know God, you must know correctly about God. Then preceded to correct his errors, which errors, he listed for us in his Journal.”
“In Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith Clearly states that God is a SPIRIT OF GLORY AND POWER, and further that the HOLY SPIRIT IS THE MIND OF GOD.”
The Joseph Smith Papers captures this incident with Joseph correcting Elder Hyde on the Godhead: http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/…/jour ... r-1842…/50
Section 130:22 was one of the things at odds with those brethren on the committee that decided to remove the Lectures on Faith from the D&C in 1921 without a vote. They felt that the description Joseph gave of the Father in lecture on Faith chapter 5 (?) was at odds with what was in section 130:22, which apparently was added to the D&C sometime after Joseph and Hyrum were slain.

Now, as to what Scriptures that D&C 130:22 contradict:
Alma 34: 34-38
2 Nephi 4: 12
John 14:10, 16-17, 19-20, 23
Acts 7: 48
1 Cor 3:16-17
1 Cor 12: 11-14
2 Cor 6: 14-16
Eph 3: 17, 19
D&C 93: 17, 35
D&C 88: 47-50, 66
2 Tim 1:14
1 John 4: 12-16
Heb 10: 19-20
2 Cor 3: 12-18
Helaman 4: 24
Jonah 2: 4, 7
Psalms 18: 6
Mosiah 15: 1-5

Here is the quote from the LOF...

"The Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a person-age of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man—or rather, man was formed after his likeness and in his image.

Other supporting verses:

3 Nephi chapter 1:14 Behold, I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son—of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

This line of thinking is very interesting...

John 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away [Jesus or The Father in His physical form manifested in the Telestial World]: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Why?

Moses 5:9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.

What are your thoughts? How do you interpret all the scriptures that seem to contradict D&C130:22?

Is God a spirit?

Peace,
Amonhi

Thank you for sharing this Amonhi.
I believe this is basically correct.

[Sarah]

A friend sent this to me today,

There is a lot of LDS Doctrine, not only in the mainstream LDS Church but also in the Remnant Movement, which relies upon what is taught about the nature of God in D&C 130:22. Does everyone realize how much scripture that one verse contradicts? Did anyone realize that Joseph Smith actually sought to correct the individual who originally taught what was in that verse?
I saw this information written in another blog post and thought I would share it here and get some thoughts as to why Joseph Smith sought to correct the person who taught it and ultimately was responsible for adding it to the D&C over 30 years after Joseph died?
Elder Orson Pratt and Elder Orson Hyde added it to the Doctrine and Covenants in 1876. It came from a series of talks that Orson Hyde gave in the presence of Joseph Smith in 1842. Some of the items that Orson Hyde spoke on were not accurate, such that it required a private correction by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith Papers, Journals, Volume 2 page 324, on April 2, 1842, Joseph recorded:
“Elder Hyde I am going to offer some corrections to you. Elder Hyde replied – they shall be thankfully received. – When he (Christ) shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he (Christ) is a man like ourselves. – (Parenthesis added).
This is consistent with the Lectures on Faith. The Son (Christ) is a man, a ‘tabernacle of clay’. Just like us. However, later on, Joseph records the following on page 326:
“There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven. Before the foundation of the world upon which all blessings are predicted and when we obtain a blessing it is by obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated. Again reverted to Elder Hyde’s mistake. &c the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. – and a person cannot have the personage . It may descend upon him but not to tarry with him.— (Bold and Italics added)
“So the clincher here, the way Joseph Wrote in his Journal is he elaborated on “Elder Hyde’s mistake”, by writing. “&c”. I had to look this up, but &c is another way to write Etc. Normally we would write this after the sentence. However, Joseph Used it before the sentence, in fact it starts the sentence, listing Elder Hyde’s mistake. What was Elder Hydes mistake? Amongst other things (&c): the Father having a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans the son also and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. I assert that Joseph was trying to lay out to Elder Hyde, that to know God, you must know correctly about God. Then preceded to correct his errors, which errors, he listed for us in his Journal.”
“In Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith Clearly states that God is a SPIRIT OF GLORY AND POWER, and further that the HOLY SPIRIT IS THE MIND OF GOD.”
The Joseph Smith Papers captures this incident with Joseph correcting Elder Hyde on the Godhead: http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/…/jour ... r-1842…/50
Section 130:22 was one of the things at odds with those brethren on the committee that decided to remove the Lectures on Faith from the D&C in 1921 without a vote. They felt that the description Joseph gave of the Father in lecture on Faith chapter 5 (?) was at odds with what was in section 130:22, which apparently was added to the D&C sometime after Joseph and Hyrum were slain.

Now, as to what Scriptures that D&C 130:22 contradict:
Alma 34: 34-38
2 Nephi 4: 12
John 14:10, 16-17, 19-20, 23
Acts 7: 48
1 Cor 3:16-17
1 Cor 12: 11-14
2 Cor 6: 14-16
Eph 3: 17, 19
D&C 93: 17, 35
D&C 88: 47-50, 66
2 Tim 1:14
1 John 4: 12-16
Heb 10: 19-20
2 Cor 3: 12-18
Helaman 4: 24
Jonah 2: 4, 7
Psalms 18: 6
Mosiah 15: 1-5

Here is the quote from the LOF...

"The Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a person-age of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man—or rather, man was formed after his likeness and in his image.

Other supporting verses:

3 Nephi chapter 1:14 Behold, I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son—of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

This line of thinking is very interesting...

John 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away [Jesus or The Father in His physical form manifested in the Telestial World]: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Why?

Moses 5:9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.

What are your thoughts? How do you interpret all the scriptures that seem to contradict D&C130:22?

Is God a spirit?

Peace,
Amonhi

Joseph Smith also said this Jan. 5 1841

"That which is without body or parts is nothing. There is no other God in heaven but that God who has flesh and bones. John 5— 26, “As the father hath life in himself, even so hath he given the son to have life in himself.” God the father took life unto himself precisely as Jesus did. The first step in the salvation of men is the laws of eternal and self-existent principles. Spirits are eternal. At the first organization in heaven we were all present and saw the Savior chosen and appointed, and the plan of salvation made and we sanc tioned it. We came to this earth that we might have a body and present it pure be fore God in the Celestial Kingdom. The great principle of happiness consists in having [p. 7] a body. The Devil has no body, and herein is his punishment. He is pleased when he can obtain the tabernacle of man and when cast out by the Savior he asked to go into the herd of swine showing that he would prefer a swines body to having none. All beings who have bodies have power over those who have not. The devil has no power over us only as we permit him; the moment we revolt at anything which comes from God the Devil takes power."

Perhaps the reason prophets refer to God as a Spirit is to emphasize his eternal nature, and that it differs from our mortal body nature. So instead of saying he is a resurrected being with an eternal body, it's like saying, he has a spiritual body.

[freedomforall]

The brother of Jared went before the Lord and, in time, saw the finger of the Lord. Here is what the Lord, Jehovah, told him:

Ether 3:16
16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

Now go to Mosiah 15:1-5 Here we find out that Jehovah is called the Father, and Jesus Christ is called the Son:

1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

This is why Jesus told Philip that when people look upon him they are also looking upon the Father, even Jehovah. Read verse 1 again, which tells us that God, himself would come down take upon flesh and redeem his people. It is very important to tie all this together.

Now remember that Jehovah is the Firstborn in spirit. This would show that there is someone that is the Father of Jehovah. This would be Elohim. So there are two indications of a Father and Son. 1) Elohim and Jehovah, and 2) Jehovah and Jesus. So yes, God is spirit and flesh in both cases. The First vision reveals this to be true. Also, remember in scripture where a voice from heaven was heard when Jesus was baptized? Here it is:

JST, Matthew 3:46
46 And lo, he heard a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him.


To sum it up, Jehovah is the Firstborn in spirit and the Only Begotten in the flesh.

A few other scriptures:

Mosiah 13:34 (33–34)
33 For behold, did not Moses prophesy unto them concerning the coming of the Messiah, and that God should redeem his people? Yea, and even all the prophets who have prophesied ever since the world began—have they not spoken more or less concerning these things?
34 Have they not said that God himself should come down among the children of men, and take upon him the form of man, and go forth in mighty power upon the face of the earth?

1 Tim. 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


I contend that man can be either flesh only or a spiritual being.

The carnal man/woman is an enemy to God. A carnal man/woman is not and cannot be a holy, spiritual being.
When we shed the carnal side of us in the flesh, we then are considered spiritual, or Born gain through the merits of Jesus Christ and the atonement. Thus we are a body of flesh and bones enveloped around a spirit of sheer goodness, just like God, The Father and the Savior.

The carnal man will be raised and remain carnal. The good spirit will be raised as a holy, glorified being. One goes to hell, the other to paradise until the resurrection. Want full detail? Go to Alma 40-42, too large to post here.

[EvenTheLeastSaint]

I didn't see this verse quoted above. This seems, to me, to be the ultimate mystery.

D&C 88:

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

All things are [made?] by Him and [made?] of Him. Everything is made of God? God is the most basic particle or energy (alpha)? All the universe is God (omega)? The universe is the ultimate God? The ultimate Father?

Don't ask me.

[Amonhi]

I didn't see this verse quoted above. This seems, to me, to be the ultimate mystery.

D&C 88:

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

All things are [made?] by Him and [made?] of Him. Everything is made of God? God is the most basic particle or energy (alpha)? All the universe is God (omega)? The universe is the ultimate God? The ultimate Father?

Don't ask me.

You broke it down so clearly. He in me and I in him...

Peace,
Amonhi

[butterfly]

I didn't see this verse quoted above. This seems, to me, to be the ultimate mystery.

D&C 88:

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

All things are [made?] by Him and [made?] of Him. Everything is made of God? God is the most basic particle or energy (alpha)? All the universe is God (omega)? The universe is the ultimate God? The ultimate Father?

Don't ask me.

This God ^^^^ is the Supreme/Universal God. It is the God we are trying to become one with. Anyone who becomes a god, does so by aligning themselves with the Supreme God. It is not a body of flesh and bones- it gets that in mortality.

Then you have the Godhead which consists of:

Holy Ghost: Jehovah, the spirit body of the premortal Jesus
Son:Mortal Jesus with physical body
Father: Resurrected Jesus with body of flesh and bones

I believe we each have these components, too. We have a:

Holy Ghost: your premortal spirit which has already attained the status of god by completing the first estate

Son/Daughter: you in your second estate right now in mortality

Father/Mother: your higher self, exalted and resurrected in its 3rd estate

So it seems Jesus became a "God the Father" just as I can become a "Butterfly the Mother" but this is different than when Jesus refers to His Father which is in and through all things. We all have this same father.

Just my thoughts...

[Spaced_Out]

Essential to Christianity is the Resurrection and one day you will meet the Saviour and feel the holes and prints in his flesh. If there is no Resurrection then the entire plan of salivation is void as well as the war in heaven, there would be no purpose in keeping the first estate if one never got a body.

Doctrine and Covenants 138:50
50 For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage.

If Satan is your god then yes your god does not have a body of flesh and bones.

[Spaced_Out]

A friend sent this to me today,
What are your thoughts? How do you interpret all the scriptures that seem to contradict D&C130:22?
Is God a spirit?

Peace,
Amonhi

God is a spiritual being with a immortal spirit and physical body merged. There is no contradiction in the scripture about the Resurrection and that all will be resurrected, to do so is to deny Christ. Yes some scriptures refer to the premortal Jehovah as a God that was spirit - where is the contradiction.

[freedomforall]

I didn't see this verse quoted above. This seems, to me, to be the ultimate mystery.

D&C 88:

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

All things are [made?] by Him and [made?] of Him. Everything is made of God? God is the most basic particle or energy (alpha)? All the universe is God (omega)? The universe is the ultimate God? The ultimate Father?

Don't ask me.

This God ^^^^ is the Supreme/Universal God. It is the God we are trying to become one with. Anyone who becomes a god, does so by aligning themselves with the Supreme God. It is not a body of flesh and bones- it gets that in mortality.

Then you have the Godhead which consists of:

Holy Ghost: Jehovah, the spirit body of the premortal Jesus
Son:Mortal Jesus with physical body
Father: Resurrected Jesus with body of flesh and bones

I believe we each have these components, too. We have a:

Holy Ghost: your premortal spirit which has already attained the status of god by completing the first estate

Son/Daughter: you in your second estate right now in mortality

Father/Mother: your higher self, exalted and resurrected in its 3rd estate

So it seems Jesus became a "God the Father" just as I can become a "Butterfly the Mother" but this is different than when Jesus refers to His Father which is in and through all things. We all have this same father.

Just my thoughts...

Godhead explained above.

Supreme God = Elohim
Jehovah = Firstborn in spirit/Only Begotten in the flesh
Jesus = the flesh by which Jehovah gained so he could walk upon the earth and be seen by mortal men.
Jehovah is also considered a Father, he created the heavens and the earth and all things upon it.
Jesus is also considered a Son. This is explained in Mosiah 15:1-5
Holy Ghost = a separate personage of spirit whose role is to bear witness of the Father and Son, Elohim and Jehovah.

Articles of Faith 1:1
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Three separate individuals.

God knows all things past, present and future. It was God that came down among the intelligence's and created spirits for them.

Abraham 3:19-28
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.
21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

[butterfly]

I didn't see this verse quoted above. This seems, to me, to be the ultimate mystery.

D&C 88:

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

All things are [made?] by Him and [made?] of Him. Everything is made of God? God is the most basic particle or energy (alpha)? All the universe is God (omega)? The universe is the ultimate God? The ultimate Father?

Don't ask me.

This God ^^^^ is the Supreme/Universal God. It is the God we are trying to become one with. Anyone who becomes a god, does so by aligning themselves with the Supreme God. It is not a body of flesh and bones- it gets that in mortality.

Then you have the Godhead which consists of:

Holy Ghost: Jehovah, the spirit body of the premortal Jesus
Son:Mortal Jesus with physical body
Father: Resurrected Jesus with body of flesh and bones

I believe we each have these components, too. We have a:

Holy Ghost: your premortal spirit which has already attained the status of god by completing the first estate

Son/Daughter: you in your second estate right now in mortality

Father/Mother: your higher self, exalted and resurrected in its 3rd estate

So it seems Jesus became a "God the Father" just as I can become a "Butterfly the Mother" but this is different than when Jesus refers to His Father which is in and through all things. We all have this same father.

Just my thoughts...

Godhead explained above.

Supreme God = Elohim
Jehovah = Firstborn in spirit/Only Begotten in the flesh
Jesus = the flesh by which Jehovah gained so he could walk upon the earth and be seen by mortal men.
Jehovah is also considered a Father, he created the heavens and the earth and all things upon it.
Jesus is also considered a Son. This is explained in Mosiah 15:1-5
Holy Ghost = a separate personage of spirit whose role is to bear witness of the Father and Son, Elohim and Jehovah.

Articles of Faith 1:1
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Three separate individuals.

God knows all things past, present and future. It was God that came down among the intelligence's and created spirits for them.

Abraham 3:19-28
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.
21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

I appreciate your thoughts. Can you clarify your understanding of the Elohim? Mine is this:

The Elohim is the Supreme God. This is the Being that we worship and pray to. It is made up of a plurality of gods, including both male and female gods. All of these gods are connected so that they work cohesively as one God.

The Elohim is not what is depicted on Joseph Smith's first vision paintings where you see 2 heavenly beings standing beside each other in the air.
We know this because the Supreme God is in all things and through all things. A body of flesh and bones can't do that.

So if you're talking about resurrected gods, yes they have bodies of flesh and bone, like Jesus Christ. But the Supreme God/Elohim is the God that is spirit, which Joseph Smith explains in Lectures on Faith.

[Spaced_Out]

The Elohim is the Supreme God. This is the Being that we worship and pray to. It is made up of a plurality of gods, including both male and female gods. All of these gods are connected so that they work cohesively as one God.

The Elohim is not what is depicted on Joseph Smith's first vision paintings where you see 2 heavenly beings standing beside each other in the air.
We know this because the Supreme God is in all things and through all things. A body of flesh and bones can't do that.

All the God's are individual characters with individual personalities, there is no one great overriding creator except to us in our sphere of existence it is Elohim is God the Father of our spirits including Jesus - he took our intelligence and fashioned a spiritual body for our intelligence.

When we were in the preexistence prior to coming to earth we were intelligence merged with a spiritual body. After we are resurrected the spiritual body is merged with a physical body. We read in ecclesiastics that whatever God does is for ever.
Elohim is a resurrected and perfected being his influence is through his Son, which radiates throughout the universe as every living thing has a spirit and obeys God's commands except mortal man. The earth that we dwell on has a spirit and God acts influence over it. All things made by the Son (Jehovah) and all things obey him that is how he is in all things.

It is like the gravitational force of the sun influence all the planets in our solar system it is one single entity but it's influence is throughout the solar system, in a similar method through the PH Jehovah influence is throughout the universe but He is one single being with an individual character and personality. And you can one day become a perfected being and have a son that creates all things, and influences all things that fall under your realm of responsibilities.

From the hymn....

If you could hie to Kolob
In the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward
With that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever,
Through all eternity,
Find out the generation
Where Gods began to be?

Or see the grand beginning,
Where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation,
Where Gods and matter end?
Methinks the Spirit whispers,
“No man has found ‘pure space,’
Nor seen the outside curtains,
Where nothing has a place.”

D&C88 7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.
8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;
9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;
10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand....

25 And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law—....

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.
42 And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons;
43 And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets.
44 And they give light to each other in their times and in their seasons, in their minutes, in their hours, in their days, in their weeks, in their months, in their years—all these are one year with God, but not with man.
45 The earth rolls upon her wings, and the sun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the power of God.

[Amonhi]

The "ultimate light" as some call it is the God Source or Source God, All God, Universal God, God of Gods, whatever you want to call it. God the Father and any God that has a body of flesh and bones is in one place at any given time as is Jesus Christ. But the God of Gods literally IS ALL things. It makes up all things. Here is a scripture talking about this God.

40 For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.

41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

A body of flesh and bones cannot meet the criteria of being "in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things". Also, notice the interesting wording that says, "all things are by him, and of him, even God"...

If it were talking about the Father of our spirits, that has a glorified body of flesh and bone, then it doesn't make sense to say that "all things are (made) by him, and (made) of him, even God.

There are many Gods, but there is a God of Gods. God the Father of our spirits can fall if He were to act contrary to truth. This means that some other being or principle is the judge of God the Father. That is why the verse says, "judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things." Something governs God our Father and that something is the Eternal God or God of Gods which is a spirit that in in all things and of all things and through all things and round about all things. It knows all things because it is ever present with them. All things are by this God of Gods. It existed before God the Father of our Spirits was exalted.

The Father of our spirits is not and cannot be the God that created all things because there was creation before he was a God and when he was in His mortal probation working our his exaltation, there was a God who was the Father of his spirit, and a world on which he lived and stars and planets and animals and plants and all mannor of created things that he did not create. This is just as it will be when we are Gods and our children are wondering about us and considering how we created all things, even God...

Peace,
Amonhi

[Amonhi]

The Elohim is the Supreme God. This is the Being that we worship and pray to. It is made up of a plurality of gods, including both male and female gods. All of these gods are connected so that they work cohesively as one God.

The Elohim is not what is depicted on Joseph Smith's first vision paintings where you see 2 heavenly beings standing beside each other in the air.
We know this because the Supreme God is in all things and through all things. A body of flesh and bones can't do that.

All the God's are individual characters with individual personalities, there is no one great overriding creator except to us in our sphere of existence it is Elohim is God the Father of our spirits including Jesus - he took our intelligence and fashioned a spiritual body for our intelligence.

The scripture does not say that this God created all spiritual things, but all things. That means that it created your physical body as well. There was no flesh and bone God forming together the the cells that grew into our physical body. No hands and fingers we in the womb for 9 months handling the creation of our bodies. There is an intelligence that was there. It is in all things and through all things and of all things. All things are created by this intelligence/mind/spirit/God. All things.

Elohim is a resurrected and perfected being his influence is through his Son, which radiates throughout the universe as every living thing has a spirit and obeys God's commands except mortal man. The earth that we dwell on has a spirit and God acts influence over it. All things made by the Son (Jehovah) and all things obey him that is how he is in all things.

It is like the gravitational force of the sun influence all the planets in our solar system it is one single entity but it's influence is throughout the solar system, in a similar method through the PH Jehovah influence is throughout the universe but He is one single being with an individual character and personality.

If God is in all things and through all things and round about all things, then You cannot point to any space where this God does not dewl and exist. That is not the God we are taught to worship that is a separate and distinct being from Jesus Christ.

Consider the following verses about the Light of Christ. Not how the light of Chicst

7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.

8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;

9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;

10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.

11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;

12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—

13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things. - D&C 88

The Light of Christ governs the power of God, who sitteth upon his throne...

Peace,
Amonhi

[freedomforall]

I suppose everyone has their own view of a Supreme God, his makeup, personality, characteristics, methods of operation and even his shape and stature.

I just want to pose a question. If God, as a supreme being says to us: this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, then how and why would he create flesh for man so they can become perfect...and him stay in spirit? This makes no sense at all, whatsoever.

He tells us to become as perfect as he is. JS Matt 5:50, which says:

Ye are therefore commanded to be perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Now as far as I understand we cannot be perfect without a spirit, coupled with a body.

Why would the Supreme God tell us we are created in his image and likeness, and even going to such great lengths to create bodies for us, and him remain in spirit alone. If Heavenly Father is perfect, and expects us to become as perfect as he is...he must have a body of flesh and bones as well. He would be imperfect without one. Otherwise, why is he so adamant about us being able to resurrected and gloried IN BODY AND SPIRIT never to be divided again?

Doctrine and Covenants 138:17
17 Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy

If Father has no body of flesh and bone how can he have a fullness of joy, yet expect us to have one in order to have a fullness of joy?

God does not lie, nor live a double standard. Where does he say "do as I say, not what I do?"

[freedomforall]

I also suspect there are members of this forum who are Fundamentalists pretending to be LDS's, yet have their own agenda that they adamantly try to promote. You know who you are.

Unless Brian has changed his mind, this forum is a pro-LDS site. This means no promoting of doctrine not in line with official church doctrine and practices.

I see the OP question as a trick question just to stir up contention. A way to throw doubt into others minds. A way to question our own beliefs and the revealed word of God.

Ours is to learn, study and pray in order to come to know the mysteries of God...not to ignore and pick apart what we already have.

There is a great message given here:

Alma 12:10
10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.

So we see that for those who only want to pick apart the word will never know the greater portion of the word, and not learn the mysteries of God. This is reserved for those with humble hearts and a burning desire to know God.

Psalms 46:10
10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

[inho]

I also suspect there are members of this forum who are Fundamentalists pretending to be LDS's, yet have their own agenda that they adamantly try to promote. You know who you are.

I doubt any fundie would deny the corporeality of God, but those in Remnant movement or independent new age Mormons might.

[Amonhi]

I suppose everyone has their own view of a Supreme God, his makeup, personality, characteristics, methods of operation and even his shape and stature.

I just want to pose a question. If God, as a supreme being says to us: this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, then how and why would he create flesh for man so they can become perfect...and him stay in spirit? This makes no sense at all, whatsoever.

Of the millions of Gods, which one said that? Do they all have the same immediate goals? Do they all play basketball and Golf and etc. Or maybe none of them enjoy recreation anymore? Are they all identical?

He tells us to become as perfect as he is. JS Matt 5:50, which says:

Ye are therefore commanded to be perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Now as far as I understand we cannot be perfect without a spirit, coupled with a body.

The the Holy Ghost is not perfect and neither was Jehovah. Perfection is not a trait that requires a body. It does not require death and resurrection. This was someone's idea trying to figure out why Jesus referenced the Father as the example of perfection in the Bible, but himself in the Book of Mormon. Jesus told the wealthy young man,

Matthew 19:21
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

In one act, he would have become perfect. Perfection is available to mortals. Here are references to perfect mortals....

Paul speaks wisdom among them that are perfect
1Cor. 2:5-6
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Paul considers himself and those to whom he is talking to be perfect.
Philip. 3:14-15 -
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Jesus becomes perfect on mortality
Heb. 5:8-9
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Un-Resurrected spirits can be perfect - No body/resurrection required.
D&C 129: 3, 6
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—

Gen. 6: 9
9 ¶ These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

2 Chr. 15: 17
17 But the high places were not taken away out of Israel: nevertheless the heart of Asa was perfect all his days.

Job 2: 3
3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

D&C 107: 43
43 Because he (Seth) was a perfect man, and his likeness was the express likeness of his father, insomuch that he seemed to be like unto his father in all things, and could be distinguished from him only by his age.

Moses 8: 27
27 And thus Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord; for Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generation; and he walked with God, as did also his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Why would the Supreme God tell us we are created in his image and likeness, and even going to such great lengths to create bodies for us, and him remain in spirit alone. If Heavenly Father is perfect, and expects us to become as perfect as he is...he must have a body of flesh and bones as well. He would be imperfect without one. Otherwise, why is he so adamant about us being able to resurrected and gloried IN BODY AND SPIRIT never to be divided again?

Again, you are mixing up Gods. God/Father/Mother created men/women in their image and likeness using the power of the Supreme God which governs "even the power of God, who sitteth upon his throne".

Many Gods, one is supreme. Which God spoke and by what power? The power of God is governed by the Supreme God. If you are to become God, you must align yourself with truth which is the Supreme God that governs the power of God, even when you sit on your throne.

Peace,
Amonhi

[Amonhi]

I also suspect there are members of this forum who are Fundamentalists pretending to be LDS's, yet have their own agenda that they adamantly try to promote. You know who you are.

Unless Brian has changed his mind, this forum is a pro-LDS site. This means no promoting of doctrine not in line with official church doctrine and practices.

I see the OP question as a trick question just to stir up contention. A way to throw doubt into others minds. A way to question our own beliefs and the revealed word of God.

Ours is to learn, study and pray in order to come to know the mysteries of God...not to ignore and pick apart what we already have.

Then don't ignore these:
Alma 34: 34-38
2 Nephi 4: 12
John 14:10, 16-17, 19-20, 23
Acts 7: 48
1 Cor 3:16-17
1 Cor 12: 11-14
2 Cor 6: 14-16
Eph 3: 17, 19
D&C 93: 17, 35
D&C 88: 47-50, 66
2 Tim 1:14
1 John 4: 12-16
Heb 10: 19-20
2 Cor 3: 12-18
Helaman 4: 24
Jonah 2: 4, 7
Psalms 18: 6
Mosiah 15: 1-5

Peace,
Amonhi

[Amonhi]

Unless Brian has changed his mind, this forum is a pro-LDS site. This means no promoting of doctrine not in line with official church doctrine and practices.

Are you suggesting that we are not allowed to discuss the great portion of LDS scripture in the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price that is not in line with "official Doctrine"? (Break out the black highlighter...)

Who decides what is the church doctrine? The scriptures or a committee of book writers? Last I heard, the scriptures were the standard...

Or are you saying that we should change our own views and beliefs as soon as the church Committee publishes a new manual so that we are limited to only accept the current church doctrine, no more and no less?

Peace,
Amonhi