What is Your Spiritual Level? The Ladder to Heaven

[freedomforever]

Have you ever wondered where you really stand with God. The Bible describes four levels of righteousness, a transitional level and four levels of wickedness. Characters and peoples mentioned in the Bible represent these spiritual categories or levels. Read more below

http://www.covenantbloodlines.com/blood ... -to-heaven

[Obrien]

Very interesting concept freedom forever. 9 levels seems very restrictive for eternity. I remember reading that if the electromagnetic spectrum was represented by the height of the Empire State Building, the portion of the EMS visible to humans would be roughly the thickness of a penny. There's lots of "stuff" out there we just can't see because our eyes are restricted to ROYGBIV. It reminds me of Joseph's teaching that there is no immaterial matter, there are degrees of purity which restrict observation of purer matter by inhabitants of degraded spheres.

I prefer to think of spirituality as a staircase stretching into eternity with periodic landings. As a person masters certain requirements for ascending the stairs (ie keep commandments, make covenants, love your God and your fellow men, etc) you move up or down the stairs. This process continues into eternity, with us continually learning new things and serving those around us. I don't believe it has a reincarnation component, but I'd be willing to accept that idea if the Lord taught me it was true. I tend to believe we retain our eternal essence (intelligence) "forever", and that we can form mutually agreeable eternal relationships if we choose to, that can last "forever".

Just my post vacation random thoughts...

[freedomforever]

Interesting thoughts Obrien.

One thing I believe is lacking in Church doctrine are clear and well defined progressional steps.

[Matchmaker]

Interesting thoughts Obrien.

One thing I believe is lacking in Church doctrine are clear and well defined progressional steps.

It seems like what we have in the Church is what's in the D&C about who goes into what kingdom when they die. I also will be glad when we are given more in the way of specifics. The information would help me. Some days I am not sure where I fall on the spectrum and what specific things I need to do to move further up the ladder toward my Heavenly Father.

[Obrien]

Interesting thoughts Obrien.

One thing I believe is lacking in Church doctrine are clear and well defined progressional steps.

Agreed. However, to complicate the staircase image a bit, the steps are not necessarily in the same order for everyone. Well defined steps of progress would not likely be applicable to everyone, so we get general guidelines in Christ's teaching and the admonition by Nephi to follow the Holy Spirit until we show a willingness to follow His direction at all hazards. Then, Christ will come to you and give you some more steps to work on (See 2 Nephi ch 30 and 31). It is a custom program for for each of us.

[David13]

That was my thinking, Obrien, you said it quite nicely for me.
dc

[freedomforever]

So Obrien where would you be on the ladder.

[BackBlast]

One thing I believe is lacking in Church doctrine are clear and well defined progressional steps.

There are some clear steps. It's plain enough in the scriptures, though I don't ever recall a sunday school lesson that summarizes it as such.

Telestial [default state of fallen man, has the Light of Christ]
Terrestial [Born again state, also has the Holy Ghost]
Celestial [Calling and election made sure, also has the 2nd comforter]

[plainness]

Ladder concept is relevant, even scriptural, but it's value is poetic, not definitive. Because on this side of the cross, we don't have a ladder. Christ is the ladder.

The way one has to talk, think, leverage scripture to qualify the ladder concept is awkward. Unless God is a prescriptive manager of humanity. Which He is not.

When we see Him as He is, we become like Him.
Heaven went bankrupt to redeem our value. And Christ pours Heaven into us. He set the table. We don't strive to touch Him. What appears as striving in the life of a disciple intimidate with Christ, by dynamic influence, is the unrestrained love, power, and in-dwelling presence of God upon that person's life. It's such a weight of glory that it rests within and defeats fear, even common spiritual vulnerability to adversity. Ammon, or Alma, or Lehi and Nephi starved and beaten in prison- they were in love with God, not in misery. Such is knowing Him.

Not, "when we pass this test, and then this one, strengthened by a successful passage through levels 3 and 4, and thus walking in increased favor, we have more resolve for levels 5,6,7, etc.."

You can't posture your relationships with spouse or children this way.

The reveal is this: God is relational, and therefore, not prescriptive. Never in essence or passion is He prescriptive. That's a default position that natural men put in front of Him. It's a relegation.

What level do you claim, on a ladder to heaven? This is a gnostic silliness.

First use of "line upon line, precept upon precept" in the scriptures is the sarcasm of Isaiah, lamenting the impoverished spirituality of Israel, who preferred to relate to Jehovah as a tenuous concubine, and not His bride.

Obviously, God has revealed a more excellent way. The most mighty of His servants in faith and miraculous influence have no ladder model to teach us.

[diligently seeking]

To the extent --or until-- we are fully subservient to God in Heaven-- broken in heart and contrite in spirit our "somethingness " / pride takes a dominant role. It upstages our vitally important "nothingness" / becoming meek and lowly yoked with the great yoke master.... The fruitfull bounty that comes from our somethingness pales in comparison to the fruitful bounty held in reserve going forward in a state of nothingness... See: Job; Nephi in 2nefi 4; Saul's transformation to Pablo (" when I am weak I am strong") etc. is it any wonder in this transcendent / changed & converted state we see understand and go forward in unflinching diligence-- like Job... In this state of conviction we want what God can do for us Job 23: 10. But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold."
Much better yes, than the shiny tinfoil we make of our life through our somethingness?
Love for our gracious advocate CHRIST versus love for our mostly self propelled SELF and our wrung on the ladder is where it is AT! Yes,prosperity occurs in righteous living. however, prosperity is relevant. Great is the grace granted attribute of humility / meekness and the love it conjures for Deity...


Spencer W Kimball:

"If the Lord was meek and lowly and humble, then to become humble one must do what He did in boldly denouncing evil, bravely advancing righteous works, courageously meeting every problem, becoming the master of himself and the situations about him and being near oblivious to personal credit.
Humility is not pretentious, presumptuous, nor proud. It is not weak, vacillating, nor servile."



http://www.nauvoo.com/library/kimball-humility.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sent from my iPhone

[freedomforever]

Nice philosophy guys. Im more into concrete application.

[marc]

Nice philosophy guys. Im more into concrete application.

"Now, there is some grand secret here, and keys to unlock the subject. Notwithstanding the apostle exhorts them to add to their faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, etc., yet he exhorts them to make their calling and election sure. And though they had heard an audible voice from heaven bearing testimony that Jesus was the Son of God, yet he says we have a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed as unto a light shining in a dark place. Now, wherein could they have a more sure word of prophecy than to hear the voice of God saying, This is my beloved Son?

Now for the secret and grand key. Though they might hear the voice of God and know that Jesus was the Son of God, this would be no evidence that their calling and election was made sure, that they were sealed in the heavens and had the promise of eternal life in the kingdom of God. Then, having this promised sealed unto them, it was an anchor to the soul, sure and steadfast. Though the thunders might roll and lightnings flash, and earthquakes bellow, and war gather thick around, yet this hope and knowledge would support the soul in every hour of trial, trouble and tribulation. Then knowledge through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the grand key that unlocks the glories and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. – Joseph Smith, TPJS p. 298

On October 19, after a series of experiences, which I realize now were tests/trials, I heard a distinct, still small voice speak to me, saying the words, "Today I covenant with thee, thou shall have eternal life." It was the Lord. I have been praying for twenty-seven years for that anchor to my soul. The rest of the day, my heart was swollen with joy. Ever since then, I have felt nothing but joy and the desire to praise the Lord. I know this is yet the beginning. I know He will yet open because He has promised it.

[diligently seeking]

Nice philosophy guys. Im more into concrete application.

"Now, there is some grand secret here, and keys to unlock the subject. Notwithstanding the apostle exhorts them to add to their faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, etc., yet he exhorts them to make their calling and election sure. And though they had heard an audible voice from heaven bearing testimony that Jesus was the Son of God, yet he says we have a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed as unto a light shining in a dark place. Now, wherein could they have a more sure word of prophecy than to hear the voice of God saying, This is my beloved Son?

Now for the secret and grand key. Though they might hear the voice of God and know that Jesus was the Son of God, this would be no evidence that their calling and election was made sure, that they were sealed in the heavens and had the promise of eternal life in the kingdom of God. Then, having this promised sealed unto them, it was an anchor to the soul, sure and steadfast. Though the thunders might roll and lightnings flash, and earthquakes bellow, and war gather thick around, yet this hope and knowledge would support the soul in every hour of trial, trouble and tribulation. Then knowledge through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the grand key that unlocks the glories and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. – Joseph Smith, TPJS p. 298

On October 19, after a series of experiences, which I realize now were tests/trials, I heard a distinct, still small voice speak to me, saying the words, "Today I covenant with thee, thou shall have eternal life." It was the Lord. I have been praying for twenty-seven years for that anchor to my soul. The rest of the day, my heart was swollen with joy. Ever since then, I have felt nothing but joy and the desire to praise the Lord. I know this is yet the beginning. I know He will yet open because He has promised it.

Thanks for sharing! I am so very happy for you your life / spiritual progression the past 5+ years, on LDSff,is a beautiful witness on how to spiritually ascend through the unending grace of Christ.... (Bible topicle Guide:"contrite heart" scriptures).

[Obrien]

So Obrien where would you be on the ladder.

I am on a staircase... ;)

[Dannyk]

Nice philosophy guys. Im more into concrete application.

"Now, there is some grand secret here, and keys to unlock the subject. Notwithstanding the apostle exhorts them to add to their faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, etc., yet he exhorts them to make their calling and election sure. And though they had heard an audible voice from heaven bearing testimony that Jesus was the Son of God, yet he says we have a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed as unto a light shining in a dark place. Now, wherein could they have a more sure word of prophecy than to hear the voice of God saying, This is my beloved Son?

Now for the secret and grand key. Though they might hear the voice of God and know that Jesus was the Son of God, this would be no evidence that their calling and election was made sure, that they were sealed in the heavens and had the promise of eternal life in the kingdom of God. Then, having this promised sealed unto them, it was an anchor to the soul, sure and steadfast. Though the thunders might roll and lightnings flash, and earthquakes bellow, and war gather thick around, yet this hope and knowledge would support the soul in every hour of trial, trouble and tribulation. Then knowledge through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the grand key that unlocks the glories and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. – Joseph Smith, TPJS p. 298

On October 19, after a series of experiences, which I realize now were tests/trials, I heard a distinct, still small voice speak to me, saying the words, "Today I covenant with thee, thou shall have eternal life." It was the Lord. I have been praying for twenty-seven years for that anchor to my soul. The rest of the day, my heart was swollen with joy. Ever since then, I have felt nothing but joy and the desire to praise the Lord. I know this is yet the beginning. I know He will yet open because He has promised it.

Thank you for sharing this Marc. I celebrate with you, I rejoice in this knowledge the Lord has given you. And I thank you for your example. May I learn to Love the Lord as you have learned to Love Him.

[freedomforever]

Marc - when you say the Lord promised "eternal life" - please define your understanding of what is "eternal life".

[marc]

Marc - when you say the Lord promised "eternal life" - please define your understanding of what is "eternal life".

D&C 6: 13 If thou wilt do good, yea, and hold out faithful to the end, thou shalt be saved in the kingdom of God, which is the greatest of all the gifts of God; for there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation.

D&C 14:7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.

1 Nephi 15:36 Wherefore, the wicked are rejected from the righteous, and also from that tree of life, whose fruit is most precious and most desirable above all other fruits; yea, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of God. And thus I spake unto my brethren. Amen.

I have shared more in a recent blog entry: A Tale of Two Comforters

There is also a beautiful general conference talk by the apostle Marion G. Romney, which sheds light on the subject: The Light of Christ

[h_p]

Marc - when you say the Lord promised "eternal life" - please define your understanding of what is "eternal life".

And my personal favorite:

Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

We can see by marc's experience that this scripture is quite literal, and God is the same today as He was in 600 BC.

Congratulations, marc, though "congratulations" seems a little quaint for a blessing as profound and sacred as that.

[marc]

That verse succinctly explains the vision of the tree of life. Pressing forward along the iron rod, living the Golden Rule/two greatest commandments upon which all commandments hang until, inevitably, one comes to the end of the journey to partake of the fruits of his labors. He finds rest.

[h_p]

I used to think that "endure to the end" meant "patiently suffer until you die." I'm glad I've finally learned what it really means, and it has changed my whole perspective of the gospel.

Thank you, John Pontius, for setting me straight after all these years...

[freedomforever]

Again we see a lot of general philosophy with no specifics. A lot of lofty ideas with no details.

[shadow]

So Obrien where would you be on the ladder.

I am on a staircase... ;)

Indeed. I found a picture-

Obrien on the stairs

thGS3V0IXW.jpg (11.11 KiB) Viewed 1947 times

[marc]

Again we see a lot of general philosophy with no specifics. A lot of lofty ideas with no details.

Speaking for myself, I hope my answer to your question was specific and well supported. What kind of details are you expecting? If you're addressing me, did you read my blog entry and the general conference talk I linked?

[freedomforever]

Fair enough Marc. I read the blog and Romney's talk.

What is missing here?

An honest understanding of who Jesus-Yeshua is what is missing. If you dont understand or come to know Christ - there no way you can get to the gate.

Jesus-Yeshua was a Torah-Observant Jew. He was raised as a Jew, he was circumcised. He observed the Israelite Holy Days. We know for a fact that he observed Passover and Sukkot. He wore tzitzit. The early Church observed Shavuot/Pentecost - Acts 2. But the Gentile Churches have divorced themselves from the true Christ. We are to apply the teachings of Christ within the context of the Sinai law and not as a replacement. Gentiles have turned Jesus' teachings on its head by ignoring the law Jesus gave to the Israelites as Yehovah.

[marc]

Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law and to to give a new law. He clearly declared what is required to enter in at the gate in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. The title of this discussion is "what is your spiritual level?" I have simply shared mine. That is all I am able to offer.