The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

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Spaced_Out
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Spaced_Out »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Spaced_Out wrote:The only other plan was Satan's that is the same as what you are proposing. Those that did not want pain and suffering started the war in heaven over the issue and you are continuing the same war on earth proposing a different plan. I must give you credit for your persistence - but the war over the other plan was lost in the preexistence it is time you conceded defeat and accept the great plan of happiness.
I proposed nothing of the sort, and in fact said the exact opposite.

There were infinite opportunities for pain without the fall.

You do not have to have your own transgressions to obtain pain, you get your pain because of the transgressions of others. That was the better path God offered Adam and Eve, and that is precisely what Jesus did.

You are both confused as well as seemingly incapable to understand plain language as it is written.

Go to the OP and read again "No Pain No Game" misunderstanding section.
There was no other path offered to Adam and Evem they could not sin, feel pain, have children until they partook of the fruit of knowledge and became mortal. The atonement was not required for anything that happened in the garden. It was only required for sin committed after they were cast out. As all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Not all are perfected being like Jesus and can only experience repentance for others mistakes, it was not the plan, as there was only one worthy enough to do that.

There were no infinite possibilities without the fall they were naked and as little children with bodes that could not feel pain, could not have children, did not comprehend right and wrong, these things only came after the fall.
It is contrary to all teachings, scriptures and knowledge revealed in the Temple and teachings of the prophets etc... There is not one scripture to say that there were possibilities without the fall.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

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Robin Hood wrote:Have you read the link in full?
Surely no one with a functioning brain cell could possibly give that clearly fabricated story any credence whatsoever.
So no proof then? Ok... Just say so.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Spaced_Out wrote:There was no other path offered to Adam and Evem they could not sin, feel pain, have children until they partook of the fruit of knowledge and became mortal.
That is false. I have proven the "COULD NOT" wrong. You have not proven otherwise. You have no proof except you saying it.

I on the other hand have the commandments of God which say that they COULD, but wouldn't, which was the reason for their fall.
Spaced_Out wrote: The atonement was not required for anything that happened in the garden.
Really? Did not the Fall happen in the garden? Were they not made mortal because of it?
Spaced_Out wrote:It was only required for sin committed after they were cast out.
That is not true. Otherwise little children, who cannot sin, and die in infancy do not need the atonement, and can resurrect themselves. Which is false.

Adam and Eve became mortal because of the fall, sin or no sin.

So the atonement was necessary because of their transgression in the garden, even if they had never sinned after that.
Spaced_Out wrote:As all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Really? Even little children who die in their infancy? You will find that you need to qualify this statement.
Spaced_Out wrote:Not all are perfected being like Jesus and can only experience repentance for others mistakes, it was not the plan, as there was only one worthy enough to do that.
You are confusing things again. Besides you are forgetting about billions of those who will never live in a telestial state.
  • "And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation." (D&C 45:58)
This was the intent for Adam, Eve and their posterity from the beginning, if they had taken it. They could have lived in the "paradisiacal glory" (Articles of Faith 1:10) from the beginning, as billions will do in the Millennium, who will be born and grow up in a world where "there shall be no sorrow because there is no death." ( D&C 101:29 ) "Sorrow" here means despair, "and despair cometh because of iniquity." (Moroni 10:22)
Spaced_Out wrote:There were no infinite possibilities without the fall they were naked and as little children with bodes that could not feel pain, could not have children, did not comprehend right and wrong, these things only came after the fall.
That is false as the commandments of God amply testify. God gives no commandments unless people are perfectly capable of keeping them. He said it, and I believe him. If what you say were true, and they "could not" have children, it would make God a liar. He is not. Therefore you are mistaken, friend.
Spaced_Out wrote:It is contrary to all teachings, scriptures and knowledge revealed in the Temple and teachings of the prophets etc... There is not one scripture to say that there were possibilities without the fall.
Yes there were:
  • "the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them." (1 Nephi 3:7)
Transgressing commandments is NOT accomplishing them. In case you are wondering.

Therefore it was indeed possible for Adam and Eve to do all that the Lord commanded them, unless you make God a liar who contradicts himself. When in reality it is you who contradict both himself and the scriptures.

Spaced_Out
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Spaced_Out »

LoveIsTruth wrote: Therefore it was indeed possible for Adam and Eve to do all that the Lord commanded them, unless you make God a liar who contradicts himself. When in reality it is you who contradict both himself and the scriptures.
Simply not true and your interpretation of scripture is false. Since you are unable to understand basic scripture I have attached a few comments below that explain it in american English so you can understand if you desire truth.

Romans 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
https://www.lds.org/liahona/2002/08/the ... y?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Fall was a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life.
This explains the deception of Satan to Eve.
“Ye shall not surely die,” protested Lucifer, directly contradicting the word of the Lord (see Moses 4:10; see also D&C 29:41–42). “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil” (Moses 4:11). Lucifer spoke a partial truth mixed with a falsehood. If Eve were to partake of the fruit, her eyes would indeed be opened and she would begin to know good and evil; yet the notion that eating the fruit could immediately make Eve as the gods was a clever deception. The purpose of life can be fulfilled only when we have time to prepare to meet God and learn good and evil by our own experience (see Alma 12:22–26; D&C 29:39).

The two commandments explained.
The Choice That Began Mortality
https://www.lds.org/liahona/2002/08/the ... y?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At Lucifer’s suggestion, Eve began to notice that the forbidden fruit was good for food, or delicious, and pleasant to the eyes. Lucifer “knows well how to catch the eye and arouse the desire of his customers.” 4 Eve then chose to partake of the forbidden fruit. She subsequently encouraged Adam to partake (see Moses 4:12). Adam concluded that God’s command to remain with his wife (see Moses 4:18) was more important than His command to abstain from the fruit. Thus in the face of this enticement, “Adam fell that men might be” (2 Ne. 2:25).
The Fortunate Fall https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/no-weapon- ... am-and-eve" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jacob Boehme, a sixteenth-century Christian theologian and philosopher, described the Fall as “the horrible, lamentable and miserable fall of Adam and Eve.” [1] Although Boehme’s description of the Fall was written hundreds of years ago, it is still representative of the current view held by much of traditional Christianity. Most religions, especially creedal Christianity, believe and express the idea that “there was nothing fortunate about the fall of man. It was a total tragedy for God and man.” [2]

Latter-day Saints embrace the doctrine of the Fall as taught by latter-day prophets as a restoration of one of the “plain and precious” (1 Nephi 13:28) principles that had been lost to mankind through apostasy. Latter-day prophets acknowledge that “Adam’s fall was a step downward,” but teach that “it was also a step forward . . . in the eternal march of human progress.” [3] Latter-day leaders have also taught that mankind “should rejoice with [Adam and Eve], that through their fall and the atonement of Jesus Christ, the way of eternal life has been opened up to us.” [4] Instead of disdainfully looking at the Fall as a tragedy, Latter-day Saints believe Adam and Eve’s eating from “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Genesis 2:17) to be one of the most theologically significant and fortunate events in human history. While many condemn Adam and Eve for what they believe was their sin in the Garden of Eden and for the depravity of man that followed, Latter-day Saints reverence the choice made in Eden. Elder James E. Talmage stated, “It has become a common practice with mankind to heap reproaches upon the progenitors of the family, and to picture the supposedly blessed state in which we would be living but for the fall; whereas our first parents are entitled to our deepest gratitude for their legacy to posterity—the means of winning title to glory, exaltation, and eternal lives.” [5]

The Book of Mormon prophet Lehi recorded, “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy” (2 Nephi 2:25). Lehi also taught, “If Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen” (2 Nephi 2:22), and he and Eve “would have had no children . . . [and] no joy, for they knew no misery” (2 Nephi 2:23). Latter-day scripture also contains the testimonies of Adam and Eve concerning their fall from innocence. Adam recorded, “Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God” (Moses 5:10). Eve also testified, “Were it not for our transgression we should never have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto the obedient” (Moses 5:11).

Spaced_Out
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

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https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some more explanation and teachings for you understanding.
It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. And thus Eve and “Adam fell that men might be” (2 Ne. 2:25).

Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall (see Bruce R. McConkie, “Eve and the Fall,” Woman, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1979, pp. 67–68). Joseph Smith taught that it was not a “sin,” because God had decreed it (see The Words of Joseph Smith, ed. Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, Provo, Utah: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1980, p. 63). Brigham Young declared, “We should never blame Mother Eve, not the least” (in Journal of Discourses, 13:145). Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said: “I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin. … This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin … for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 1:114–15).

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Robin Hood
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Robin Hood »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Have you read the link in full?
Surely no one with a functioning brain cell could possibly give that clearly fabricated story any credence whatsoever.
So no proof then? Ok... Just say so.
Once again, you have demonstrated that you are unfamiliar with the rules of this game.
You have introduced a piece of evidence which is outwith your experience and mine, which appears to be outlandish in the extreme; and you have done it in order to bolster your position on a particular gospel point....... but you want me to prove your ridiculous evidence is untrue!

The onus is on you mate, not me.

You may think it's clever to say "prove it" every time someone disagrees with you, but you're not fooling anyone.
When I read the content of many of your posts the phrase "tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine" comes forcefully to mind.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Spaced_Out wrote:https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng
Some more explanation and teachings for you understandings.
I already answered all these misunderstandings and pointed out that even apostles are liable to be wrong in their personal opinions.

What is important to me is what God had said on the subject, and it agrees with what I have said.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Have you read the link in full?
Surely no one with a functioning brain cell could possibly give that clearly fabricated story any credence whatsoever.
So no proof then? Ok... Just say so.
Once again, you have demonstrated that you are unfamiliar with the rules of this game.
You have introduced a piece of evidence which is outwith your experience and mine, which appears to be outlandish in the extreme; and you have done it in order to bolster your position on a particular gospel point....... but you want me to prove your ridiculous evidence is untrue!

The onus is on you mate, not me.

You may think it's clever to say "prove it" every time someone disagrees with you, but you're not fooling anyone.
When I read the content of many of your posts the phrase "tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine" comes forcefully to mind.
My position is perfectly consistent. And I gave that quote from Valiant Thor as an example of what I was saying. It was not intended to be a definitive proof, merely something to think about. But I believe it.

The definitive proof of my points about Adam and Eve are in the words of God recorded in the scriptures.

So you are welcome to tell me what you believe about the account referenced, but if you are making a definitive claim then please prove it. Otherwise admit that it is simply your personal opinion.

Thanks.

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Alaris
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Alaris »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Spaced_Out wrote:https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng
Some more explanation and teachings for you understandings.
I already answered all these misunderstandings and pointed out that even apostles are liable to be wrong in their personal opinions.

What is important to me is what God had said on the subject, and it agrees with what I have said.
I don't necessarily agree with LoveIsTruth on whether Adam and Eve could have maintained a terrestrial state--I have not studied or pondered or prayed on it. I can say I do agree with this statement. Apostles and church leaders have said contradictory things throughout church history. At some point you've got to take off the training wheels and learn for yourself.

Spaced_Out
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Spaced_Out »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Spaced_Out wrote:https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng
Some more explanation and teachings for you understandings.
I already answered all these misunderstandings and pointed out that even apostles are liable to be wrong in their personal opinions.

What is important to me is what God had said on the subject, and it agrees with what I have said.
What is important to me is to understand what G_d has said on the subject through his prophets. which includes scripture and modern day apostles and prophets. Stating the prophets are misunderstanding key doctrines and what is taught in the temple is wrong and then quoting some alien is a continuation of the war that started in heaven on earth, and is an apostate doctrine of the devil.
Doctrine and Covenants 130:5
5 I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.

Spaced_Out
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Spaced_Out wrote:https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng
Some more explanation and teachings for you understandings.
I already answered all these misunderstandings and pointed out that even apostles are liable to be wrong in their personal opinions.

What is important to me is what God had said on the subject, and it agrees with what I have said.
I don't necessarily agree with LoveIsTruth on whether Adam and Eve could have maintained a terrestrial state--I have not studied or pondered or prayed on it. I can say I do agree with this statement. Apostles and church leaders have said contradictory things throughout church history. At some point you've got to take off the training wheels and learn for yourself.
There has been no contradictory teachings about the fall of Adam from the general authorities of church and it is in line with what is taught in the temple.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Spaced_Out wrote: What is important to me is to understand what G_d has said on the subject through his prophets. which includes scripture and modern day apostles and prophets. Stating the prophets are misunderstanding key doctrines and what is taught in the temple is wrong and then quoting some alien is a continuation of the war that started in heaven on earth, and is an apostate doctrine of the devil.
I never said that what is taught in the temple is wrong. You are being dishonest. I actually reaffirmed what is said in the temple, and it perfectly agrees with what I said.

As for the quote, I gave it as an interesting side note. It was never meant as a definitive proof. The proof is in the scriptures.
Spaced_Out wrote:Doctrine and Covenants 130:5
5 I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.
Val Thor is not an angel.

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Alaris
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Alaris »

Spaced_Out wrote:
alaris wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Spaced_Out wrote:https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng
Some more explanation and teachings for you understandings.
I already answered all these misunderstandings and pointed out that even apostles are liable to be wrong in their personal opinions.

What is important to me is what God had said on the subject, and it agrees with what I have said.
I don't necessarily agree with LoveIsTruth on whether Adam and Eve could have maintained a terrestrial state--I have not studied or pondered or prayed on it. I can say I do agree with this statement. Apostles and church leaders have said contradictory things throughout church history. At some point you've got to take off the training wheels and learn for yourself.
There has been no contradictory teachings about the fall of Adam from the general authorities of church and it is in line with what is taught in the temple.
Quite the definitive statement there. Look no further than BY's statements about Adam being the father of our spirits. Now I don't want to be lured into an argument over whether apostles and prophets have contradicted each other because they have and know they do--hence the title page of the Book of Mormon written by Moroni. The point is at some...point in your spiritual development you HAVE to learn how to receive personal revelation. Sometimes contradictions only seem like such to the anti mormon or the member who is only ready for milk. Those who think you shouldn't try to discover and learn the mysteries of God are not only limiting themselves but are also cursing themselves to lose even that which they have attained.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Well said, alaris!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Spaced_Out wrote:There has been no contradictory teachings about the fall of Adam from the general authorities of church and it is in line with what is taught in the temple.
Really? Is not the teaching that God contradicts himself in his commandments, or gives self-contradictory commandments a contradictory teaching? I say Yes!

Therefore it is not correct.

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Robin Hood
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Robin Hood »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
As for the quote, I gave it as an interesting side note. It was never meant as a definitive proof.
But you wanted me to provide definitive proof it wasn't true! :-\

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
As for the quote, I gave it as an interesting side note. It was never meant as a definitive proof.
But you wanted me to provide definitive proof it wasn't true! :-\
:) Only because of your absolute claim that it was nonsense. I just wanted the readers to be aware that it was only your personal opinion without any proof whatsoever.

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Robin Hood
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Robin Hood »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
As for the quote, I gave it as an interesting side note. It was never meant as a definitive proof.
But you wanted me to provide definitive proof it wasn't true! :-\
:) Only because of your absolute claim that it was nonsense. I just wanted the readers to be aware that it was only your personal opinion without any proof whatsoever.
The thing is, in my experience most, if not all, of the participants on this forum are quite sensible intelligent people.
They would all concur with my opinion that your claim was complete and utter nonsense.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote: As for the quote, I gave it as an interesting side note. It was never meant as a definitive proof.
But you wanted me to provide definitive proof it wasn't true! :-\
:) Only because of your absolute claim that it was nonsense. I just wanted the readers to be aware that it was only your personal opinion without any proof whatsoever.
The thing is, in my experience most, if not all, of the participants on this forum are quite sensible intelligent people.
They would all concur with my opinion that your claim was complete and utter nonsense.
Yes, two hundred years ago most, if not all of "quite sensible intelligent" people would concur with the opinion that the internet and cellphones are "complete and utter nonsense."

Of course, It would still have been their opinion only, because they, like you, could produce no proof.

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Robin Hood
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Robin Hood »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote: But you wanted me to provide definitive proof it wasn't true! :-\
:) Only because of your absolute claim that it was nonsense. I just wanted the readers to be aware that it was only your personal opinion without any proof whatsoever.
The thing is, in my experience most, if not all, of the participants on this forum are quite sensible intelligent people.
They would all concur with my opinion that your claim was complete and utter nonsense.
Yes, two hundred years ago most, if not all of "quite sensible intelligent" people would concur with the opinion that the internet and cellphones are "complete and utter nonsense."

Of course, It would still have been their opinion only, because they, like you, could produce no proof.
Apples and oranges.
You were saying something had already happened, not that it will.
Complete claptrap.

My main point is really, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such ludicrous material to evidence your views?
I personally feel it demonstrates a distinct lack of rational thought and profound disrespect for other posters on this forum.

If you can't evidence your views from the scriptures or modern revelation then it might be wise to modify your views rather than introduce aliens from Venus.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote: :) Only because of your absolute claim that it was nonsense. I just wanted the readers to be aware that it was only your personal opinion without any proof whatsoever.
The thing is, in my experience most, if not all, of the participants on this forum are quite sensible intelligent people.
They would all concur with my opinion that your claim was complete and utter nonsense.
Yes, two hundred years ago most, if not all of "quite sensible intelligent" people would concur with the opinion that the internet and cellphones are "complete and utter nonsense."

Of course, It would still have been their opinion only, because they, like you, could produce no proof.
Apples and oranges.
You were saying something had already happened, not that it will.
So you will feel better if this happens in the future, which will make it more true than if it happened in the past? And what is the difference exactly there?
Robin Hood wrote:My main point is really, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such ludicrous material to evidence your views?
I personally feel it demonstrates a distinct lack of rational thought and profound disrespect for other posters on this forum.

If you can't evidence your views from the scriptures or modern revelation then it might be wise to modify your views rather than introduce aliens from Venus.
I thoroughly proved my views from the scriptures. I quoted about 100 of them. Why do you not remember that?

Is it because you cannot overcome my logic, so you attack an unrelated but interesting quote I gave as a side, while ignoring the mountain of scriptures and reason that you are powerless to disprove?

Yeah, I'd say that's it. You have proven my point, friend. Thanks.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by simpleton »

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner!
When our father Adam came into the Garden of Eden he came into it with a
celestial body and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make
and organize this world. He is Michael, the archangel, the ‘Ancient of Days’ . . . .
He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. . . .
When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten Him in
His own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father?
He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle it was begotten
by his Father in heaven . . . from the fruits of the earth the first earthly tabernacles
were originated by the Father . . . .
Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character
[who] was in the Garden of Eden, and who is our Father in heaven. Now, let all
who may hear these doctrines pause before they make light of them or treat them
with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.
I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal
more remains to be told.... BY, 1852

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken—He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, the thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal...

simpleton
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by simpleton »

Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50 (April 9, 1852

I guess I should post the source....

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Robin Hood
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Robin Hood »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Robin Hood wrote: The thing is, in my experience most, if not all, of the participants on this forum are quite sensible intelligent people.
They would all concur with my opinion that your claim was complete and utter nonsense.
Yes, two hundred years ago most, if not all of "quite sensible intelligent" people would concur with the opinion that the internet and cellphones are "complete and utter nonsense."

Of course, It would still have been their opinion only, because they, like you, could produce no proof.
Apples and oranges.
You were saying something had already happened, not that it will.
So you will feel better if this happens in the future, which will make it more true than if it happened in the past? And what is the difference exactly there?
Robin Hood wrote:My main point is really, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such ludicrous material to evidence your views?
I personally feel it demonstrates a distinct lack of rational thought and profound disrespect for other posters on this forum.

If you can't evidence your views from the scriptures or modern revelation then it might be wise to modify your views rather than introduce aliens from Venus.
I thoroughly proved my views from the scriptures. I quoted about 100 of them. Why do you not remember that?

Is it because you cannot overcome my logic, so you attack an unrelated but interesting quote I gave as a side, while ignoring the mountain of scriptures and reason that you are powerless to disprove?

Yeah, I'd say that's it. You have proven my point, friend. Thanks.
You didn't "thoroughly prove your views".
You presented evidence, which you felt supported your views.
There is a world of difference.
And when people began to resist your views (presumably because they felt the evidence either didn't support them, or pointed in another direction) you played the alien card.

For me, you lost all credibility at that point.

Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Spaced_Out »

Robin Hood wrote:
LoveIsTruth wrote: Yeah, I'd say that's it. You have proven my point, friend. Thanks.
You didn't "thoroughly prove your views".
You presented evidence, which you felt supported your views.
There is a world of difference.
And when people began to resist your views (presumably because they felt the evidence either didn't support them, or pointed in another direction) you played the alien card.

For me, you lost all credibility at that point.
The scriptures plainly teach that there are only two types of beings that visit this earth, those from God and those that are against him. Any visitor to this planet is either an angle from God who belongs or did belong to this earth or a evil spirit. LoveIsTruth" made it very plain the alien did not belong to this earth so must of necessity be an evil spirit. Quoting evil spirits or make believe evil spirits does not lead to truth but deception.

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