I replied to this yesterday but apparently I did something wrong. Ironically the counterpoint to your scripture, Older/Wiser, is in the same chapter, Revelation 2:Older/wiser? wrote:There is no difference , except time and place. There are passages of scripture that with a small knowledge of symbolism are perfectly clear and very plain. We walk this earth under names different than our Heavenly names, yet we are the same .we have lost the knowledge of who we are, if we desire to return Rev.2:17 To him that overcome will I give of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth, saving he that received it. Lucifer also lost his name of who he once was, retaining his knowledge of who he was and what he did , his name then became Satan.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
I believe that the morning star is a status received sometime after keeping the second estate and is the same status of son of the morning. This status may be indicative of those who become the noble and great ones mentioned in Abraham 3. Notice how that scripture (see my first reply) says that among those intelligences that were organized were many of the noble and great ones. I've always assumed this scripture meant that these were the noble and great ones OF the spirits who were organized into their first estate. However the language allows for another interpretation and I believe there is evidence to support this other interpretation. The other possible interpretation is that these noble and great ones were beings beyond their second estate among those who were first estate spirits. The evidence to support this is the word "many:"
Abraham 3:22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
Why just "many?" Where were the rest of the noble and great ones? This verse and the verses that follow indicate that Abraham was shown and is talking about all the spirits bound to earth including the third part--yet only "many" of the noble and great ones were among them. This makes more sense if "the" noble and great ones were assigned to many earths after having passed through one mortal probation, for example.
Also, isn't Lucifer referred to as such in the temple? He had been cast out already according to Abraham 3 if it's the same person. Surely he would have lost his name by then if that's what happened. And he would be unable to carry fruit around if he was a first estate spirit as the unammed individual who kept not his first estate was in Abraham 3.
Again I'm not saying they're separate beings but the lament in Isaiah makes so much more sense if Heaven was lamenting a soul who rebelled so much further in the process than the first estate. A son of the morning!