Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
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Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
This is not only meant to deal with LDS theology either. I have heard that many of the elite of America and Europe admire Luciferianism but that they believe there is a difference between Lucifer (the bearer of light) and Satan. There is some evidence that ancient Hebrews recognized a pantheon of gods and goddesses and not just the main players we think of, the Father, Son, Holy Ghost and bad-boy Satan/Lucifer. In ancient days was Satan like Loki in Norse mythology, more a trouble-maker as opposed to Lucifer who is more like the leader of the opposition party in Heaven? Again, I am pretty sure that Lucifer and Satan are the same, but do those in power believe they are different?
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Our forum member, Adonai, who can only post in outer darkness, talked a lot about the difference between satan and Lucifer in some of his old posts. If we could dig up some of his old posts we could see that he went into a lot of depth about the difference.
- inho
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
There are probably still some in this forum who believe that the two are different. This was discussed in the sub-forum that no longer exists. I think it is taught in the Jedi classes by Doug Mendenhall. My understanding is that according to Doug and Denise one of the two has a body and is a brother of Heavenly Father, and the other one is a spirit and brother of Jesus and us. However, there is really no scriptural or historical evidence for this belief.
This is from Wikipedia:
I guess names and titles can refer to different things in different contexts. Lucifer is a Latin word and in KJV it appears in Isaiah 14. We Mormons tend to think that the passage has a double meaning: it refers to the fall of King of Babylon and on the other hand to the fall of Satan. I assume that not everybody shares this view.Fiannan wrote:This is not only meant to deal with LDS theology either. I have heard that many of the elite of America and Europe admire Luciferianism but that they believe there is a difference between Lucifer (the bearer of light) and Satan.
This is from Wikipedia:
Isaiah 14:12 is not the only place where the Vulgate uses the word lucifer. It uses the same word four more times, in contexts where it clearly has no reference to a fallen angel: 2 Peter 1:19 (meaning "morning star"), Job 11:17 ("the light of the morning"), Job 38:32 ("the signs of the zodiac") and Psalms 110:3 ("the dawn"). Lucifer is not the only expression that the Vulgate uses to speak of the morning star: three times it uses stella matutina: Sirach 50:6 (referring to the actual morning star), and Revelation 2:28 (of uncertain reference) and 22:16 (referring to Jesus).
Indications that in Christian tradition the Latin word lucifer, unlike the English word, did not necessarily call a fallen angel to mind exist also outside the text of the Vulgate. Two bishops bore that name: Saint Lucifer of Cagliari, and Lucifer of Siena.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
The same--though a few outside the church differentiate.
However, the GR go with Lucifer, bearer of light--their gnostic Prometheus.
However, the GR go with Lucifer, bearer of light--their gnostic Prometheus.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Maybe one is a person and the other is a title?Fiannan wrote:Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
We are to take upon us the name of Christ (title). Maybe there are other names we can take upon ourselves.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Some Latter-day revelation for clarity:
Doctrine and Convenants 76:25-38
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
Doctrine and Convenants 76:25-38
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
- inho
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
That is a great scripture on this topic. Would you like to tell us how you interpret it?onefour1 wrote:Some Latter-day revelation for clarity:
Doctrine and Convenants 76:25-38
- Rachael
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
I've wondered about that too, but to play it safe, I don't want anything to do with either of them.Fiannan wrote:This is not only meant to deal with LDS theology either. I have heard that many of the elite of America and Europe admire Luciferianism but that they believe there is a difference between Lucifer (the bearer of light) and Satan. There is some evidence that ancient Hebrews recognized a pantheon of gods and goddesses and not just the main players we think of, the Father, Son, Holy Ghost and bad-boy Satan/Lucifer. In ancient days was Satan like Loki in Norse mythology, more a trouble-maker as opposed to Lucifer who is more like the leader of the opposition party in Heaven? Again, I am pretty sure that Lucifer and Satan are the same, but do those in power believe they are different?
- Joel
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
From Young Mormon Feminists, a theory from their point of view:
what if heavenly mother is lucifer?
Queen of Night, 1800 B.C., Babylon, considered to be either Ishtar, Lilitu (Lilith), or Ereshkigal
What if the idea (of the Antichrist) has arisen out of the male’s unconscious dread that women will rise up and assert the power robbed from us?…
“(T)he women’s movement does point to, seek, and constitute the primordial, always present, and future Antichrist. It does this by breaking the Great Silence raising up female pride, recovering female history, healing and bringing into the open female presence…
“The Antichrist dreaded by the patriarchs may be the surge of consciousness, the spiritual awakening, that can bring us beyond Christolatry into a fuller stage of conscious participation in the LIVING God.”
–Mary Daly, “Beyond God the Father,” p. 96-97
“(Heavenly Mother) is not distant and far away but present and in our midst, bearing our pains. She is with the dying, she is with the woman in labor, she cries with the outcast. She walks veiled among us, seeking to bless us and to rebirth us. She sees into our hearts and knows our sorrow and our joy. She is the breath of life in a dying world. We do not yet know her fully. But her time is coming. Already some can hear her approaching footfalls. Soon she will unveil her face like a bride to the bridegroom. Then her daughters will no more grieve, and her sons will no more be ashamed, and all will know her name.”
–Margaret Toscano, “Women and Authority”
“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.”
–Jeremiah 7:18
From the Sistine Chapel Ceiling by Michelangelo
The Pre-Existence
Before the creation of this world, Heavenly Father presented a plan for all of his spirit children. Heavenly Mother had another plan that she wanted him to consider, one that may have been superior to his own plan, but he didn’t want to hear it.
Since he’s an over controlling, abusive, misogynistic patriarch, proudly jealous, who would later promote ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament and bar women from the priesthood in the LDS Church, it would make sense that Heavenly Father isn’t a fan of listening to women.
He gaslighted her, saying she just wanted all the attention, all the glory for herself. Our Mother has had quite enough of Our Abusive Father by that point, and a great war ensued. A third of her children remained loyal to her and were cast out of heaven with her to wander the Earth as ethereal beings.
From the Tomb of Sennedjem in the Necropolis of Deir el-Medina, 1280 B.C., Egypt. A depiction of the Goddess Nut providing bread and water for the dead in the form of a tree.
The Fall
Heavenly Father placed Adam in the Garden of Eden, and as an insult to further his misogynistic mythos, created Eve’s body out of Adam’s rib.
In his classic authoritative way, he told Eve and Adam that they were not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and that the Serpent was evil. Little did Eve and Adam know that both the Tree and the Serpent were none other than their Heavenly Mother who loved them and fought for their freedom in the pre-existence.
She invited Eve to partake of her fruit of knowledge, explaining how this knowledge would empower her. She did not, like her former spouse, demand that Eve partake. She only wanted to give Eve the opportunity to partake if she so desired. Eve found Heavenly Mother’s knowledge that she was willing to share with her delicious to the taste and very desirable.
Heavenly Father only valued Eve and Adam and wanted to keep them in his Garden only as long as they were mindless, obedient servants to him. Having tasted of the knowledge of their Mother, they were able to see God for the abusive parent that he was and leave that false utopia named Eden for good.
There was no unseeing what they saw.
Black Angel Statue in Oakland Cemetery in Iowa City. Created by Mario Korbel in 1913
Our Life on Earth
Eve would have many children that Heavenly Father would try to convince were not deserving of love. He sent prophets to preach his gospel of hate and hierarchies.
But lucky for us, Heavenly Mother is still here with us. She is the Goddess of Rebels and Outcasts and Queer Folks and Activists. The Guardian of Those Willing to Walk in Darkness.
Her and our loyal siblings will be there at our sides, whispering in our ears and guiding us to freedom, helping us discover for ourselves what is best for us, rather than depending on blind faith in the toxic nonsense and rules that Heavenly Father tries to teach us.
They whisper a need to love ourselves, to love those around us, to try new things and stand strong in the face of oppression.
We are in the midst of a cosmic custody battle with one parent doing everything he can to control us and make us forget and hate our mother, ourselves, and everybody while the other parent is doing everything she can to help us experience love, happiness, and freedom.
Whose side are you on?
Last edited by Joel on August 9th, 2016, 6:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
There is a theology that suggests Lucifer and Satan are different. That Lucifer is a spirit child of Father like we are, and volunteered to come here and fill his role. Satan is a fallen god, who trained Lucifer. Satan has a body, since he was a fallen god. This is not LDS teachings, and I've not asked Father about this, so I don't know if its true or not.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
All I can say is that consistent temple attendance over time does and will reveal this question and more , after all it is the Lord's university. The rest is just man's speculation.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
If your gaining that knowledge from the spirit yes, but if your getting it from the temple ordinances themselves, there are limitations to that understanding.Older/wiser? wrote:All I can say is that consistent temple attendance over time does and will reveal this question and more , after all it is the Lord's university. The rest is just man's speculation.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
The knowledge comes with and threw the spirit the two together reveal so much about the creation and attendance reveals what man cannot teach. One without the other will not teach the things one seeks.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Older/wiser? wrote:The knowledge comes with and threw the spirit the two together reveal so much about the creation and attendance reveals what man cannot teach. One without the other will not teach the things one seeks.
Who tempted Lucifer?
- Melissa
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Matchmaker wrote:Older/wiser? wrote:The knowledge comes with and threw the spirit the two together reveal so much about the creation and attendance reveals what man cannot teach. One without the other will not teach the things one seeks.
Who tempted Lucifer?
Love it! That is a very interesting question that I have never heard posed before.
Would be interested in the replies.
My input is that we all had choice in the pre-existance and some of us excelled and we're obedient and modivated, others not so much. We also know that God doesn't dwell with evil. So there must not have been an evil presence in the pre-existance if we all lived consistently with God. So maybe his choice was not a temptation but more a failure to chose...?
- Rachael
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Sounds like an excerpt from a satanic bible just for women, if such exists, like we have PH manuals and RS manualsJoel wrote:From Young Mormon Feminists, a theory from their point of view:
what if heavenly mother is lucifer?
Queen of Night, 1800 B.C., Babylon, considered to be either Ishtar, Lilitu (Lilith), or Ereshkigal
What if the idea (of the Antichrist) has arisen out of the male’s unconscious dread that women will rise up and assert the power robbed from us?…
“(T)he women’s movement does point to, seek, and constitute the primordial, always present, and future Antichrist. It does this by breaking the Great Silence raising up female pride, recovering female history, healing and bringing into the open female presence…
“The Antichrist dreaded by the patriarchs may be the surge of consciousness, the spiritual awakening, that can bring us beyond Christolatry into a fuller stage of conscious participation in the LIVING God.”
–Mary Daly, “Beyond God the Father,” p. 96-97
“(Heavenly Mother) is not distant and far away but present and in our midst, bearing our pains. She is with the dying, she is with the woman in labor, she cries with the outcast. She walks veiled among us, seeking to bless us and to rebirth us. She sees into our hearts and knows our sorrow and our joy. She is the breath of life in a dying world. We do not yet know her fully. But her time is coming. Already some can hear her approaching footfalls. Soon she will unveil her face like a bride to the bridegroom. Then her daughters will no more grieve, and her sons will no more be ashamed, and all will know her name.”
–Margaret Toscano, “Women and Authority”
“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.”
–Jeremiah 7:18
From the Sistine Chapel Ceiling by Michelangelo
The Pre-Existence
Before the creation of this world, Heavenly Father presented a plan for all of his spirit children. Heavenly Mother had another plan that she wanted him to consider, one that may have been superior to his own plan, but he didn’t want to hear it.
Since he’s an over controlling, abusive, misogynistic patriarch, proudly jealous, who would later promote ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament and bar women from the priesthood in the LDS Church, it would make sense that Heavenly Father isn’t a fan of listening to women.
He gaslighted her, saying she just wanted all the attention, all the glory for herself. Our Mother has had quite enough of Our Abusive Father by that point, and a great war ensued. A third of her children remained loyal to her and were cast out of heaven with her to wander the Earth as ethereal beings.
From the Tomb of Sennedjem in the Necropolis of Deir el-Medina, 1280 B.C., Egypt. A depiction of the Goddess Nut providing bread and water for the dead in the form of a tree.
The Fall
Heavenly Father placed Adam in the Garden of Eden, and as an insult to further his misogynistic mythos, created Eve’s body out of Adam’s rib.
In his classic authoritative way, he told Eve and Adam that they were not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and that the Serpent was evil. Little did Eve and Adam know that both the Tree and the Serpent were none other than their Heavenly Mother who loved them and fought for their freedom in the pre-existence.
She invited Eve to partake of her fruit of knowledge, explaining how this knowledge would empower her. She did not, like her former spouse, demand that Eve partake. She only wanted to give Eve the opportunity to partake if she so desired. Eve found Heavenly Mother’s knowledge that she was willing to share with her delicious to the taste and very desirable.
Heavenly Father only valued Eve and Adam and wanted to keep them in his Garden only as long as they were mindless, obedient servants to him. Having tasted of the knowledge of their Mother, they were able to see God for the abusive parent that he was and leave that false utopia named Eden for good.
There was no unseeing what they saw.
Black Angel Statue in Oakland Cemetery in Iowa City. Created by Mario Korbel in 1913
Our Life on Earth
Eve would have many children that Heavenly Father would try to convince were not deserving of love. He sent prophets to preach his gospel of hate and hierarchies.
But lucky for us, Heavenly Mother is still here with us. She is the Goddess of Rebels and Outcasts and Queer Folks and Activists. The Guardian of Those Willing to Walk in Darkness.
Her and our loyal siblings will be there at our sides, whispering in our ears and guiding us to freedom, helping us discover for ourselves what is best for us, rather than depending on blind faith in the toxic nonsense and rules that Heavenly Father tries to teach us.
They whisper a need to love ourselves, to love those around us, to try new things and stand strong in the face of oppression.
We are in the midst of a cosmic custody battle with one parent doing everything he can to control us and make us forget and hate our mother, ourselves, and everybody while the other parent is doing everything she can to help us experience love, happiness, and freedom.
Whose side are you on?
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
I interpret it as follows:inho wrote:That is a great scripture on this topic. Would you like to tell us how you interpret it?onefour1 wrote:Some Latter-day revelation for clarity:
Doctrine and Convenants 76:25-38
Doctrine and Convenants 76:25-38
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
This part of the revelation tells us that an angel who was in authority in the presence of God rebelled against God the Father and his Only Begotten Son and that he was thrust down from their presence. It then clearly tells us that he was called Perdition and he was Lucifer a son of the morning. The writers of this revelation exclaimed, "And we beheld and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!"
The writers then tell us that while they were in the Spirit, the Lord commanded them that they should write the vision. My interpretation is that they are to write what they just saw. They then explain again what they saw but this time they call Lucifer Satan, that old serpent, even the devil. They then reiterate that he rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ— I take this as they are speaking of the same individual.
30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
The rest of this is in regard to those who follow after Satan.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
It is difficult to comprehend how one such as Lucifer once was, could fall so far to the depravities and take so many with him.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Thank you onefour1. This is what I wanted to hear:
I was wondering if one could interpret the two parts in verses 25-29 as speaking of two different beings. But obviously this is not how you understand it, and it's not how I interpret it either.onefour1 wrote: I take this as they are speaking of the same individual.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
The only difference is time and place. I guess to avoid conflict I should say IMHO
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Verse 26. Son of the morning. Is also called the light bringer.onefour1 wrote:I interpret it as follows:inho wrote:That is a great scripture on this topic. Would you like to tell us how you interpret it?onefour1 wrote:Some Latter-day revelation for clarity:
Doctrine and Convenants 76:25-38
Doctrine and Convenants 76:25-38
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
This part of the revelation tells us that an angel who was in authority in the presence of God rebelled against God the Father and his Only Begotten Son and that he was thrust down from their presence. It then clearly tells us that he was called Perdition and he was Lucifer a son of the morning. The writers of this revelation exclaimed, "And we beheld and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!"
The writers then tell us that while they were in the Spirit, the Lord commanded them that they should write the vision. My interpretation is that they are to write what they just saw. They then explain again what they saw but this time they call Lucifer Satan, that old serpent, even the devil. They then reiterate that he rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ— I take this as they are speaking of the same individual.
30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
The rest of this is in regard to those who follow after Satan.
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Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
I'm almost amazed that anyone could think like that. So full of hate and venom. While accusing God of being full of hate and venom.Rachael wrote:Sounds like an excerpt from a satanic bible just for women, if such exists, like we have PH manuals and RS manualsJoel wrote:From Young Mormon Feminists, a theory from their point of view:
what if heavenly mother is lucifer?
Queen of Night, 1800 B.C., Babylon, considered to be either Ishtar, Lilitu (Lilith), or Ereshkigal
What if the idea (of the Antichrist) has arisen out of the male’s unconscious dread that women will rise up and assert the power robbed from us?…
“(T)he women’s movement does point to, seek, and constitute the primordial, always present, and future Antichrist. It does this by breaking the Great Silence raising up female pride, recovering female history, healing and bringing into the open female presence…
“The Antichrist dreaded by the patriarchs may be the surge of consciousness, the spiritual awakening, that can bring us beyond Christolatry into a fuller stage of conscious participation in the LIVING God.”
–Mary Daly, “Beyond God the Father,” p. 96-97
“(Heavenly Mother) is not distant and far away but present and in our midst, bearing our pains. She is with the dying, she is with the woman in labor, she cries with the outcast. She walks veiled among us, seeking to bless us and to rebirth us. She sees into our hearts and knows our sorrow and our joy. She is the breath of life in a dying world. We do not yet know her fully. But her time is coming. Already some can hear her approaching footfalls. Soon she will unveil her face like a bride to the bridegroom. Then her daughters will no more grieve, and her sons will no more be ashamed, and all will know her name.”
–Margaret Toscano, “Women and Authority”
“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.”
–Jeremiah 7:18
From the Sistine Chapel Ceiling by Michelangelo
The Pre-Existence
Before the creation of this world, Heavenly Father presented a plan for all of his spirit children. Heavenly Mother had another plan that she wanted him to consider, one that may have been superior to his own plan, but he didn’t want to hear it.
Since he’s an over controlling, abusive, misogynistic patriarch, proudly jealous, who would later promote ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament and bar women from the priesthood in the LDS Church, it would make sense that Heavenly Father isn’t a fan of listening to women.
He gaslighted her, saying she just wanted all the attention, all the glory for herself. Our Mother has had quite enough of Our Abusive Father by that point, and a great war ensued. A third of her children remained loyal to her and were cast out of heaven with her to wander the Earth as ethereal beings.
From the Tomb of Sennedjem in the Necropolis of Deir el-Medina, 1280 B.C., Egypt. A depiction of the Goddess Nut providing bread and water for the dead in the form of a tree.
The Fall
Heavenly Father placed Adam in the Garden of Eden, and as an insult to further his misogynistic mythos, created Eve’s body out of Adam’s rib.
In his classic authoritative way, he told Eve and Adam that they were not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and that the Serpent was evil. Little did Eve and Adam know that both the Tree and the Serpent were none other than their Heavenly Mother who loved them and fought for their freedom in the pre-existence.
She invited Eve to partake of her fruit of knowledge, explaining how this knowledge would empower her. She did not, like her former spouse, demand that Eve partake. She only wanted to give Eve the opportunity to partake if she so desired. Eve found Heavenly Mother’s knowledge that she was willing to share with her delicious to the taste and very desirable.
Heavenly Father only valued Eve and Adam and wanted to keep them in his Garden only as long as they were mindless, obedient servants to him. Having tasted of the knowledge of their Mother, they were able to see God for the abusive parent that he was and leave that false utopia named Eden for good.
There was no unseeing what they saw.
Black Angel Statue in Oakland Cemetery in Iowa City. Created by Mario Korbel in 1913
Our Life on Earth
Eve would have many children that Heavenly Father would try to convince were not deserving of love. He sent prophets to preach his gospel of hate and hierarchies.
But lucky for us, Heavenly Mother is still here with us. She is the Goddess of Rebels and Outcasts and Queer Folks and Activists. The Guardian of Those Willing to Walk in Darkness.
Her and our loyal siblings will be there at our sides, whispering in our ears and guiding us to freedom, helping us discover for ourselves what is best for us, rather than depending on blind faith in the toxic nonsense and rules that Heavenly Father tries to teach us.
They whisper a need to love ourselves, to love those around us, to try new things and stand strong in the face of oppression.
We are in the midst of a cosmic custody battle with one parent doing everything he can to control us and make us forget and hate our mother, ourselves, and everybody while the other parent is doing everything she can to help us experience love, happiness, and freedom.
Whose side are you on?
Someone need to look in a mirror.
- Rachael
- Captain of whatever
- Posts: 2410
Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
Gee, did you not read this part???
And I wasn't equating PH or RS manuals with satanism. Satanism has a Bible but it teaches opposite values of THE BIBLE. It was meant like the opposite of our manuals.
And I'm no fan of our correlated manuals, as I'm sure you're aware, but you high jumped some conclusions
I'm not trying to entertain some kind of idea of a cosmic custody battle. That doesnt mean I reject Heavenly Mother, if she is indeed, there. That's like saying our eternal parents are divorced and I gotta pick between momma or daddy to live with. That's a seriously messed up idea."...She invited Eve to partake of her fruit of knowledge, explaining how this knowledge would empower her. She did not, like her former spouse, demand that Eve partake. She only wanted to give Eve the opportunity to partake if she so desired. Eve found Heavenly Mother’s knowledge that she was willing to share with her delicious to the taste and very desirable.
Heavenly Father only valued Eve and Adam and wanted to keep them in his Garden only as long as they were mindless, obedient servants to him. Having tasted of the knowledge of their Mother, they were able to see God for the abusive parent that he was and leave that false utopia named Eden for good..."
We are in the midst of a cosmic custody battle with one parent doing everything he can to control us and make us forget and hate our mother, ourselves, and everybody while the other parent is doing everything she can to help us experience love, happiness, and freedom.
Whose side are you on?
And I wasn't equating PH or RS manuals with satanism. Satanism has a Bible but it teaches opposite values of THE BIBLE. It was meant like the opposite of our manuals.
And I'm no fan of our correlated manuals, as I'm sure you're aware, but you high jumped some conclusions
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4357
- Location: Not telling
Re: Is there a difference between Satan and Lucifer?
I was adding my comment to yours on the crazy thinking of feminist. It's laughable. Are you feeling guilty about something???Rachael wrote:Gee, did you not read this part???
I'm not trying to entertain some kind of idea of a cosmic custody battle. That doesnt mean I reject Heavenly Mother, if she is indeed, there. That's like saying our eternal parents are divorced and I gotta pick between momma or daddy to live with. That's a seriously messed up idea."...She invited Eve to partake of her fruit of knowledge, explaining how this knowledge would empower her. She did not, like her former spouse, demand that Eve partake. She only wanted to give Eve the opportunity to partake if she so desired. Eve found Heavenly Mother’s knowledge that she was willing to share with her delicious to the taste and very desirable.
Heavenly Father only valued Eve and Adam and wanted to keep them in his Garden only as long as they were mindless, obedient servants to him. Having tasted of the knowledge of their Mother, they were able to see God for the abusive parent that he was and leave that false utopia named Eden for good..."
We are in the midst of a cosmic custody battle with one parent doing everything he can to control us and make us forget and hate our mother, ourselves, and everybody while the other parent is doing everything she can to help us experience love, happiness, and freedom.
Whose side are you on?
And I wasn't equating PH or RS manuals with satanism. Satanism has a Bible but it teaches opposite values of THE BIBLE. It was meant like the opposite of our manuals.
And I'm no fan of our correlated manuals, as I'm sure you're aware, but you high jumped some conclusions
:-s
should have quoted the original I guess.