Eat Meat Only in Times of Famine

[brianj]

Someone on this site wrote,
"What do you think the verse above means if you make the following change?

"Yea flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." (D&C 89:12-13)

Remove the comma between used and only. How different does the verse read?

This comma was not in the original version of the revelation and, as best as I can tell, was added in the 1920's. Some say it was added in as a mistake, but never corrected or taken out."

Me,
The interpretation is always meant to be read with a comma or pause, to distinguish the interpretation. Even if there was no comma back when originally written, Joseph knew how it was meant to be read.
Here, is the back up to vs. 13 which supports why the comma is in fact, needed. Looking at 89 vs.15 the Savior included, to make no mistake of interpretation. Vs. 15. "And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger."
THESE in vs. 15, is referring back to meat consumption; only in times of famine..... The footnote of THESE, in vs. 15, refers to vs. 13 which is referring to flesh consumption, which means that "THESE" is referring to in times of famine.
Also, another footnote to THESE is 49:18, "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God." This has to be stating that meat is ordained to save your life if you need it. In other words, if meat is what you have to eat, then eat it rather than starve. But it should be used in emergency, famine or winter.
This is why the comma was always meant to be there, because the interpretation is only in times of cold, winter or famine. Or, to save your life. NOT to always consume it.

Also, note verse 12 is also a witness to vs. 13, Because it says SPARINGLY, like when you use your spare tire, in an emergency. This supports "used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine."
The Doctrine & Covenants gives - three verses (12,13,15) - to sustain, why the comma is included for interpretation.

Welcome, Vicki. That was a very well written and thought provoking first post. It almost left me feeling guilty over having eaten a bacon cheeseburger so I could know that two animals died to satisfy me.

Seriously, I think that if you look at D&C 89:15 you need to look at the preceding verse. I think "wild animals" from verse 14 are what are being referred to in verse 15. In verse 12 we are told that meat is ordained for the use of man, but to use meat sparingly. Verse 13 says it's pleasing that we don't eat meet except when really needed, but I see nothing to suggest that it is a sin to eat meat outside of famine (note that I am excluding cold because, with modern shipping from around the world, we have fresh produce year round).

And when I look at D&C 49:18, which you quoted above, I find a footnote to the ford forbiddeth that reads: "I.E. biddeth to abstain." As you will note in the section heading, this revelation was received in response to some converts holding on to Shaker beliefs. One of those beliefs was forbidding people from eating meat. The D&C student manual, as well as the heading to this section, state that this section shows that the eating of meat is approved.

As I read verses 12-15 of the Word of Wisdom I make three conclusions:
1) We are permitted to eat meat.
2) We are expected to eat meat sparingly.
3) It is better, but not required, that we only eat meat when other foods are scarce.

Go ahead and have steak and lobster or turducken. Just do so infrequently, or better yet order the vegetarian option. But if you abstain from eating meat, don't direct others to do so.

[Vicki]

I like to see how others view the Word of Wisdom. It's always interesting. I guess the point is that one way or another we are seeking truths and testimony on this issue. I may not change your view but I will still share points for you to examine.
Man has always had the need to enjoy food. But, the gluttony of it is what got the children of Israel into trouble and even their quick death. When the people begged for more than manna (a perfect food) the Lord gave them quail. And the Lord was wrathed with the people, and while the flesh was still in their teeth (Numbers 11:33-34) they were smite with a very great plague. And in that place they buried the people that "lusted".

We may eat to merely satisfy our taste buds but the Word of Wisdom is - A health law. We may go against what he tries to specify, but in 89:13, it is pleasing that they should not to be used - except in famine or emergency. Vs. 15. "These" is referring to wild animals and beasts of the field, basically all flesh for consumption may be approved but, it is to be used in famine, or winter-like in the days of Joseph Smith. Christ is concerned with keeping us alive, but also with better health in an environment filled with evil designs of men. Men torture and inhumanly kill animals in a money driven production factory bloody process. All to bring a delicious juicy hamburger in a way which we, won't even concern ourselves with what the designs of men are doing or we may be desensitized to thinking it is not evil. D&C 49:21 footnote. Sanctity of life. And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and every beast will I require at your hands. Cruelty, waste. Gen. 9:11. This process could not be the Lords way (animal cruelty) Nor was it in the beginning of the earths creation, nor in the end when the millennium comes. When there shall be no hate nor hurt in all of my mountain, thus sayeth the Lord. What does Jesus say we will eat in the millennium....not meat.
But until then, He is not going to hold us out of the temple for eating flesh, and we can live a descent amount of years. But, He is trying to show us how to return to pristine vigor of health, which will mostly happen in the millennium. Besides all of the hormones and preservatives they inject into the puss infected meat these days, we have a lot bigger concerns of evil designs of men on our food. And it's those other things that concern me the most. But again, my testimony of meat consumption comes from what would Jesus really do. If in the end (millennium) he abolishes it?

[Juliet]

I left out a part yesterday.

Eating meat sparingly could easily reference intermittent fasting. We don't need food daily if we eat nutritionally dense food when we do eat. Meat is a nutritionally dense food. Amino acids, fatty acids, and vitamins (a good slug of the B vitamins).

The thing here is that intermittent fasting adds years of productive life to our existence. So, we eat three times (or nice meals) a week and piece on veggies and ripe fruit while drinking water and tinctures of herbs and honey.

We have wheat and grains once or twice a year for holidays and heavy work days. After all the three meal a day schedule only works if we can't absorb nutrients from our chyme do to an abundance of anti-nutrients like phytic acid (found in grains and seeds). Anti-nutrients usually block everything except carbs as carbs are the first digested and absorbed.

Sunlight and sleeping in the dark are also two very important elements of digestion. Vitamin D3 and Melatonin are needed for complete digestion.

Question how does our bodies know if there is a famine? Would eating a bunch of grain shut down our nutrient absorption creating a personal famine causing us to get fat?

Fermenting bread by using natural yeast helps digest the phytic acid and can cure many grain intolerances. I made my own natural yeast by letting dough sit out for 2 weeks, feeding it daily, and then keeping a piece of dough in the fridge and using it in my bread recipe.

I was making homemade natural yeast bread and no meat for a couple weeks, and my protein levels were above average.

[Sandinista]

My definition of famine is whenever I'm hungry, so bring on the ribeye's and sirloin's!

[brianj]

My definition of famine is whenever I'm hungry, so bring on the ribeye's and sirloin's!

Sirloins? Give me Porterhouses or give me death! Preferably a porterhouse covered in crab or lobster.

[Sandinista]

My definition of famine is whenever I'm hungry, so bring on the ribeye's and sirloin's!

Sirloins? Give me Porterhouses or give me death! Preferably a porterhouse covered in crab or lobster.

Yea!

[sandman45]

In my opinion the next few verses expand the meaning:

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

These either has to refer to grain or to the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth.

I personally believe he is reaffirming what the just said in the prior verses of eating meat sparingly and only in times of famine and excess of hunger. Though I don't seem to always do that myself... But I'm often wrong so it could be grain he is referring to.

definition of Staff...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/staff --> a long stick carried in the hand for support in walking

So its a Stick in support of life... if you compare the uses who would use a staff for walking... just anyone? someone who is not strong enough to go without the staff? and older person? someone who is weak and cant go on long walks and hikes?

"These" refer to the grain.. go read the story of Joseph in Egypt.. what did he do to save the country from the famine...

I served in the Philippines and they ate rice way more than meat and veggies, some people couldn't afford meat so they ate rice and whatever veggies & fruit they could find..

When there is a famine you eat grain, you can harvest a lot of it.. and store it easily and it lasts a long time in any temperature... and it fills you up.. once the famine is gone you go back to a normal diet.. Meat, Veggies, Fruit, some grain...