Eat Meat Only in Times of Famine

[janderich]

In 1831 some concerns of Leman Copley, an early convert from the Shaker's, were on Joseph's mind. One concern was regarding the eating of meat. They did not believe in eating pork and many did not believe in eating meat of any kind. When Joseph inquired of the Lord on the matter he received this council, "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; for, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment and that he might have in abundance. ...And wo be unto man that shedeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need." (D&C 49:18-19, 21). I conclude from this that there is no spiritual injunction for us to be vegan or vegetarian exclusively and that we may eat meat from time to time but we must be careful not to waste flesh without need.

A clearer statement from the Lord was given as part of the Word of Wisdom. Here the Lord says, "Yea flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." (D&C 89:12-13). Note the clear statement on how the Lord feels. In essence he says that he would be happy if we ate meat only in time of cold or famine.

Prophets and apostles have spoken much on obeying the Word of Wisdom and obstaining from tea, coffee, caffeine, but almost nothing has been said in modern times about eating meat sparingly. Over 95% of all the chickens we eat are grown in factory farms. Their genes have been so manipulated that they are full grown and killed in 42 days. Many cannot stand up because their muscles grow faster than their bones. Pigs are also kept in horrible conditions. Mother's are forced into cages that do not allow them to even turn around. They bite at the bars.

Have we not failed to live the injunction of the Lord to eat meat sparingly and to avoid wasting flesh?

[Robin Hood]

Some of us do take the WoW to heart and follow this instruction.

[zionminded]

There are many levels of WoW obedience, it just depends where you're at. The minimum standard in the church is avoiding harmful things, which subset list is heavily culturally influenced.

[kgrigio]

A clearer statement from the Lord was given as part of the Word of Wisdom. Here the Lord says, "Yea flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." (D&C 89:12-13). Note the clear statement on how the Lord feels. In essence he says that he would be happy if we ate meat only in time of cold or famine.

What do you think the verse above means if you make the following change?

"Yea flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." (D&C 89:12-13)

Remove the comma between used and only. How different does the verse read?

This comma was not in the original version of the revelation and, as best as I can tell, was added in the 1920's. Some say it was added in as a mistake, but never corrected or taken out.

[SmallFarm]

A clearer statement from the Lord was given as part of the Word of Wisdom. Here the Lord says, "Yea flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." (D&C 89:12-13). Note the clear statement on how the Lord feels. In essence he says that he would be happy if we ate meat only in time of cold or famine.

What do you think the verse above means if you make the following change?

"Yea flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." (D&C 89:12-13)

Remove the comma between used and only. How different does the verse read?

This comma was not in the original version of the revelation and, as best as I can tell, was added in the 1920's. Some say it was added in as a mistake, but never corrected or taken out.

If it was added then than I think the addition is inspired. It does not makes sense grammatically without it, so the previous exclusion is a typo or error.

[Matchmaker]

If you read this, please share your opinion.

How much meat is considered "sparingly?" Some people eat meat 3 times a day, at each meal, and they say they don't feel full without it. Is that OK if they only eat a moderate amount at each meal?

[Separatist]

I'm famished at least once a day.

17 And that it might be filled with the measure of man, according to his creation before the world was made.

18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;

19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin.

21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.

[Elizabeth]

The word famine is self explanatory. I rarely eat meat, only if somewhere where nothing else is available and even then would probably choose not to eat.

[janderich]

If you read this, please share your opinion.

How much meat is considered "sparingly?" Some people eat meat 3 times a day, at each meal, and they say they don't feel full without it. Is that OK if they only eat a moderate amount at each meal?

What if we cared for cows, pigs, and chickens like we do our dogs? Would we eat them at all? Would we question if eating dog three meals a day was 'sparingly'?

When I was young we had chickens. They each had names and they were our pets. One of them eventually died and my Dad decided to prepare and cook it. Me, my brother and sisters refused to eat it. I suspect if we truly cared many of us would act the same with regards to every animal we ate.

[butterfly]

I don't eat meat. It just feels...wrong.
I don't judge anyone who does, though.
But personally, I don't like killing in order for me to live, especially when the Lord has blessed us with sooooo many other foods.

[Matchmaker]

What's the difference if you kill it to wear it or eat it? Many who are offended by those who kill meat to eat it, don't think twice about allowing an animal to be killed so they can wear a pair of leather shoes, use a leather purse or wallet, wear leather gloves, etc.

[LucianAMD]

In my opinion the next few verses expand the meaning:

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

These either has to refer to grain or to the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth.

I personally believe he is reaffirming what the just said in the prior verses of eating meat sparingly and only in times of famine and excess of hunger. Though I don't seem to always do that myself... But I'm often wrong so it could be grain he is referring to.

[oneClimbs]

A clearer statement from the Lord was given as part of the Word of Wisdom. Here the Lord says, "Yea flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." (D&C 89:12-13). Note the clear statement on how the Lord feels. In essence he says that he would be happy if we ate meat only in time of cold or famine.

What do you think the verse above means if you make the following change?

"Yea flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." (D&C 89:12-13)

Remove the comma between used and only. How different does the verse read?

This comma was not in the original version of the revelation and, as best as I can tell, was added in the 1920's. Some say it was added in as a mistake, but never corrected or taken out.

If it was added then than I think the addition is inspired. It does not makes sense grammatically without it, so the previous exclusion is a typo or error.

Try this:
http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/questi ... of-wisdom/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HMS Titanic]

I don't like killing in order for me to live, especially when the Lord has blessed us with sooooo many other foods.

Mary was a happy dandelion. She particularly enjoyed the light rain which sprinkled life giving water upon her as she stretched and welcomed the sun this fine day. Near her were Harvey and Betty Dandlelion; a cute couple who were always close to each other. They had flown in together from the Smith's lawn next door; their seeds falling close to each other. Ever since that day; they had been a close as could be.

Mary had a strange feeling come over her when she saw Billy, the teenage human boy walk out into the yard on Saturday. He was holding a long pole with a funny looking metal end. But panic ensued in her corner of the yard when Billy walked over to Harvey and Betty and thrust the pole into the dirt at the base of the two lovers; then with a twist; he pulled them both; screaming, out of the ground! Oh the horror.

Mary, in deep shock, then saw Billy jiggle Betty and Harvey several times; clearing the dirt from their roots; and toss them into a pot of steaming water. Oh the horror; the terror.......the pure evil.


(sorry Butterfly; I just couldn't resist)

[butterfly]

I don't like killing in order for me to live, especially when the Lord has blessed us with sooooo many other foods.

Mary was a happy dandelion. She particularly enjoyed the light rain which sprinkled life giving water upon her as she stretched and welcomed the sun this fine day. Near her were Harvey and Betty Dandlelion; a cute couple who were always close to each other. They had flown in together from the Smith's lawn next door; their seeds falling close to each other. Ever since that day; they had been a close as could be.

Mary had a strange feeling come over her when she saw Billy, the teenage human boy walk out into the yard on Saturday. He was holding a long pole with a funny looking metal end. But panic ensued in her corner of the yard when Billy walked over to Harvey and Betty and thrust the pole into the dirt at the base of the two lovers; then with a twist; he pulled them both; screaming, out of the ground! Oh the horror.

Mary, in deep shock, then saw Billy jiggle Betty and Harvey several times; clearing the dirt from their roots; and toss them into a pot of steaming water. Oh the horror; the terror.......the pure evil.


(sorry Butterfly; I just couldn't resist)

Lol, thanks for the laugh.

But seriously, the plants are excited to fulfill their measure of creation, part of which involves becoming a part of us when we consume them.
Mother earth is eager to provide for those who love and take care of her.

[Robin Hood]

The WoW also seems to distingish between farmed meat and wild meat. The first to be used sparingly, the second to be used only in the most extreme circumstances

[sushi_chef]

new wow revelation?!....for the end time survival, now to get used to the gastronomy on six legs, insect delights.

http://bugvivant.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://eveningsends.com/why-is-this-gir ... ng-el-cap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.scoop.it/t/entomophagy-edibl ... y-crawlies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

water shortage nestle wikileaks meat
http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/6 ... leaks-meat" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:-B

[RyanK]

I've found this instructive:

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs [plants] God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb [plant, things herbaceous] in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.
...
16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

It would be fruitful for a student of the Gospel to research the definitions and implications of those words: constitution, nature, and use of man. These all are listed as benefits the wholesome herbs offer. Contrasted to the flesh of animal?

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Here it says it is ordained for the use of man only--not the constitution or nature of man.


So, assuming we wish to please God, we shouldn't use it until times in which we need it (winter, cold, or famine: there just ain't good plants, or as many, growin' at that time folks). Now, am I vegetarian or vegan? No. But about a year or two ago we made a concentrated effort to eat much less meat. We haven't bought hamburger meat for ages, chicken breasts for months. Instead, we try to structure our meals around a given complex carbohydrate as the foundation: (sweet) potatoes, squashes, rice, beans, grains, whatever, then add veggies and some ethnic spin 'n' seasonings. We do eat much more salads now too, mostly because of so many greens growing in the garden. When I eat out I try to get a veggie dish, salads, or soups. "Dah! Bacon bits were on that salad!" ... ... big whoop. This act, as immaterial as one might judge, is my 'dollar vote' to help shift the demand in the food market. And I'm happy to do it even if it "doesn't make a difference" as an objector might say--well, it does in me.

(As a side observation, with this drop in the meat eating habits at home, when we do on a rare occasion eat meat, the taste is noticeably tantalizing, easily tempting me to be glutenous and eat beyond satiety. Also, as a side note, my digestion has fewer discomforts now, except when I overindulge with junk foods or sugary things at work or home.)

What about milk, diary, eggs, and other animal products? To me, the main principle that distinguishes the different between eating these animal products (what they create while alive) than their flesh itself is this: the shedding of blood. This, I think is the part that is not "pleasing" to God, or at least more so than inhumane practices on factory diary or egg farms--as despicable as it is. Also, remember it says (and for the eating plants too) to do so "with thanksgiving." I read like it is a condition. in other words, God has ordained this food source for the use of man if he does so with gratitude. Besides, how profoundly grateful are we for the Lamb of God's shedding of blood for our spiritual salvation; should we also have a similar spirit of gratitude for the shedding of blood for our temporal salvation? Sadly, many don't even think twice about a creature's giving its ultimate sacrifice for lunchtime--and regrettably are we not also guilty of not deeply appreciating the Ultimate Sacrifice while we partake of the Sacramental bread and water each week?

My beginning to follow the prophets' counsel to grow garden foods a few years ago has helped me better understand the Word of Wisdom, human health, and the terrible problems of today's food industry (remember, the Word of Wisdom was given in part because of the "consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days." We can't say that this strictly excludes all but those in the cigarette or alcohol business). I still feel very much like a beginning student (no expert here!) but I am very much enjoying what I am learning and the diverse fruits of it. I really wish more Latter-day Saints gardened, there are so many good things that come from it.

(Sorry, guys, that I'm not too conversational here, but this is a topic I am passionate about. So, wanted to let my voice be heard. )

[LiberMama]

I'll add to this discussion.

I had an outbreak of an auto-immune condition, (eczema, leaky-gut) in order to heal my gut (as that was where the trouble originated in) I tried to eat vegan, no refined grains, no refined sugars. Probably 90% of my condition cleared but that remaining 10% of healing just would not happen, no matter how I tried... then I learned in order for the body to repair tissue cells it needs amino acids and specifically those from meat, along with Vit C so the cells stick together. Once I added 14 g a day of gelatin along with all my other food and supplement choices, I began to see healing. (the most natural source of gelatin comes from bone broth) Still my body again stalled and I had 5% more healing -- then I read an article that states, in order for the body to do its restorative process, its vital to do a 3-4 day fast. Intermittent fasting is beneficial so that the detoxification and repair processes can be done without the interruption of the digestive process. I prayed to figure out how and when it would be possible... considering that I rarely get sick anymore -- I ended up with some sort of flu like illness that lasted 3 days, and I could barely eat except for some soup (with bone broth) and some herb tea over those three days..... at the other end of this illness my auto-immune problem went completely away..(Hows that for a direct answer to prayer). But the truth of the matter is, my body required meat in order to heal... I did eat ample vegetable proteins but all i got from those was weight gain. (which my body just won't let go of... SIGH, fortunately this weight gain is slow, on average 3 lbs per year... which in 10 yrs is making me really really cranky!) By far, I eat significantly little to no sugar anymore, flour is back but still never as much as I used to... I love my veggies and salads (can hardly get my husband to eat them.... but that's another story)

I had attempted to eat vegan several years earlier -- again all i got was extra weight and that made me feel less healthy! I take to heart the verses which clearly indicate that to abstain from meat is not good either -- and I learned through experience that for my body I need to eat meat and also consume healthy fat in order to keep my auto-immune condition from coming back. I also figured out what triggered the condition in the first place, many many years ago it was antibiotics, but this time it was taking NSAIDs for shoulder pain.. I only took them for 2 weeks and that was enough to destroy my good gut bacteria. Lesson learned, we won't be doing that again!)

To your health, it is very important that we learn what our individual body needs are and do all we can to maintain optimum health!

[Robin Hood]

I believe the WoW distinguishes between the "beasts of the field" and the wild animals that run or creep. It says the wild animals should only be consumed in times of famine or extreme cold (implications for hunters there). The farmed animals (beasts of the field) can be eaten sparingly, but not necessarily only in times of famine.

[sushi_chef]

urrr... about urine therapy and gut flora....it might be for the poor, but (cost-)effectiveness would be thousands times better....

"Once we are born, the intestinal flora start to work, which have a special role in the conversion of urea. Scientists estimate that 25% of the urea in an adult finds its way into the intestines, where it is decomposed into ammonia by intestinal bacteria. The body reuses a certain part of urea; the extra supply created by applying urine therapy increases the gultamine level in the body. This consequently strengthens the immune system...." http://www.universal-tao.com/article/urine_therapy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"will help cleanse your colon and regenerates the intestinal flora. It is also a good supply of vitamins, minerals, enzyme etc.." http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 79202.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

search.php?keywords=urine&terms=all&aut ... mit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:-B

[dafty]

There are many levels of WoW obedience, it just depends where you're at. The minimum standard in the church is avoiding harmful things, which subset list is heavily culturally influenced.

hi, ...yeah but whats more important? not having a glass of wine or letting animals suffer in terrible condition? :-w ...I think we're all wicked and doomed lol x

[zionminded]

There are many levels of WoW obedience, it just depends where you're at. The minimum standard in the church is avoiding harmful things, which subset list is heavily culturally influenced.

hi, ...yeah but whats more important? not having a glass of wine or letting animals suffer in terrible condition? :-w ...I think we're all wicked and doomed lol x

Yup. Many layers, where you realize you don't even need food at all.

[butterfly]

Sounds like you're talking about Breatharianism. I've been trying to learn about that. Has anyone tried it?

[bancheck]

First the comma between DC89:13 "Used" "Only" was added in the 1921 printing of the Doctrine and Covenants.

I have followed what I was told was the proper Mormon understanding of the WoW to find myself fat with many health problems. I went looking for a better interpreter. I found the Naturopathic Medical Discipline.

I learned that we need 4 nutrients in quantity and type. The WoW reads with these 4 nutrients in mind works nicely for me now. We need 77 (60 are documented) essential bio-available minerals, 16 essential vitamins, 12 essential amino acids, and 3 essential fatty acids from our food daily.

The WoW reads first avoid dangerous food, drinks, and products. Fewer poisons for the body to process.

Eat minerals and vitamins found in herbs, vegetables, and ripe fruits. Green fruit lack vitamins, bioflavonoids, and enzymes.

Eat amino acids and fatty acids found in meat. Note that burning fatty acids make them resemble petroleum (the process is know as Depolymerization) a poison. Animal fat needs to stay below the boiling point of water to be body-usable when cooking. Most plant fat is too poorly produced and stored for marketing to be a food after expelling.

(Now the hard part) There are no Carbohydrates on the essential nutrient list. We don't need them. When we eat them we need amino acids, fatty acids, and minerals to build the hormones to convert them into energy. If we lack these nutrients with a large belly full of carbohydrates... our body turns the carbs to fat and stores it.

So, let us read DC 98:14 and 15
14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

Now, the grammar rule must come out. All the semicolon are uses correctly but one in the WoW. The Subject of the first independent clause is reflected to the pronoun of the second independent clause through the semicolon. However, between 14 and 15 most Mormons read it "Choose One of the 4 Direct Objects of the first independent clause and reflected it to the pronoun of the second independent clause through the semicolon".

Where am I going with this? Well, grains contain phytic acid and a few other anti-nutrients. Phytic acid robs our digestive tracts of minerals when eaten with other nutrients. the only way to eat them safely is alone. This works great in times of famine or to build up body fat for a fuel. Cause we be oil burners.

So, do we need to eat meat? Yes. Do we need to eat wheat? No. We need to eat herbs, vegetables, ripe fruits, and meats. Grain only in time of famine and bad hunger.

So, what think you?