Endowment handshakes and tokens

[Col. Flagg]

Been wondering about this for a long time and so I thought I'd bring it up for discussion... we are taught that records are being kept in heaven of our life here on earth and that the Lord and Savior know each and every one of us personally, right? Well, if so, why are we required to learn four different handshakes, their meanings, affiliated tokens and then long diatribe of the 4th one during the temple endowment ceremony in order to pass guardian angels to enter the presence of God on the other side of the veil some day after our mortal existence is complete here on earth? Surely if the Lord knows who we are and what our worthiness is, why are we required to render what are essentially four different passwords and memorized long diatribe that is the 4th token? In addition, I get why we dress in the robe and apron (their symbolism/meanings), but what the heck is the purpose of the sash and hat??? The endowment ceremony isn't even in the scriptures. If anyone can shed some light on these questions, I'm all ears.

[shadow]

Been wondering about this for a long time and so I thought I'd bring it up for discussion... we are taught that records are being kept in heaven of our life here on earth and that the Lord and Savior know each and every one of us personally, right? Well, if so, why are we required to learn four different handshakes, their meanings, affiliated tokens and then long diatribe of the 4th one during the temple endowment ceremony in order to pass guardian angels to enter the presence of God on the other side of the veil some day after our mortal existence is complete here on earth? Surely if the Lord knows who we are and what our worthiness is, why are we required to render what are essentially four different passwords and memorized long diatribe that is the 4th token? In addition, I get why we dress in the robe and apron (their symbolism/meanings), but what the heck is the purpose of the sash and hat??? The endowment ceremony isn't even in the scriptures. If anyone can shed some light on these questions, I'm all ears.

It's all in the scriptures. Start looking when you read.

I wonder what Aaron thought of his clothing in Exodus 28.

[Jeremy]

...why are we required to learn four different handshakes, their meanings, affiliated tokens and then long diatribe of the 4th one during the temple endowment ceremony in order to pass guardian angels to enter the presence of God on the other side of the veil some day after our mortal existence is complete here on earth?

They are symbolic. What they symbolize is what will be presented to "pass guardian angels to enter". As for "after our mortal existence is complete here on earth" - why do you believe it is after mortality. These blessings and tokens are received in this mortality.

The endowment ceremony isn't even in the scriptures.

You might not be reading about the endowment CEREMONY in the scriptures. What you are reading is the ACTUAL thing. The real endowment is not a ceremony.

[shadow]

[ebenezerarise]

Diatribe?

I find the use of that word a bit disrespectful. In fact, I consider this whole discussion a bit suspect and perhaps even inappropriate.

I seriously question the spirit in which these questions are asked.

[Jeremy]

I consider this whole discussion a bit suspect and perhaps even inappropriate.

Inappropriate? Why?

[2EstablishZion]

These are my thoughts only and not correlated material:

We know that the entire ceremony is out on the interweb and certainly anyone that wanted to badly enough could learn the signs and tokens. Also members have fallen away that would still remember those things. So if you think a handshake is going to get you passed angels, I'd seriously reconsider that position.

All of the physical ordinances have a spiritual counterpart that is what seals the associated blessing to us. That spiritual component can't be faked or used except upon living in accordance with the covenants made.

If you receive the spiritual signs and tokens, do not sell them for money (or anything else for that matter).

If you cannot keep the tokens and signs of the physical endowment to yourself, you will not be trusted to receive the spiritual endowment, as betraying that would be far more damning and harmful to yourself.

Again, just my own thoughts. Ponder and pray about it.

[EdGoble]

Been wondering about this for a long time and so I thought I'd bring it up for discussion... we are taught that records are being kept in heaven of our life here on earth and that the Lord and Savior know each and every one of us personally, right? Well, if so, why are we required to learn four different handshakes, their meanings, affiliated tokens and then long diatribe of the 4th one during the temple endowment ceremony in order to pass guardian angels to enter the presence of God on the other side of the veil some day after our mortal existence is complete here on earth? Surely if the Lord knows who we are and what our worthiness is, why are we required to render what are essentially four different passwords and memorized long diatribe that is the 4th token? In addition, I get why we dress in the robe and apron (their symbolism/meanings), but what the heck is the purpose of the sash and hat??? The endowment ceremony isn't even in the scriptures. If anyone can shed some light on these questions, I'm all ears.

If you didn't have all these symbols, you would not have opportunity to use them as learning devices to have the spirit reveal to you the deeper meanings behind them. When you actually are going through motions and speaking words, the recital of these things becomes real, or in other words, actual actions are happening, and we become participants in the story that is unfolding and being recited. We become truly a part of the story and a part of the process. The Lord did when he did for us on the cross and in the garden. Now he has left us to do SOMETHING that requires some sort of sacrifice on our part. We could never sacrifice the way he sacrificed. But it has to do with the humility to be willing to do it the Lord's way, and to be willing to sacrifice to a small degree some of our time and effort to bring to pass our salvation and the salvation of our families.

[ebenezerarise]

I consider this whole discussion a bit suspect and perhaps even inappropriate.

Inappropriate? Why?

The spirit in which this is approached just doesn't feel right. I sense he's mocking the Endowment. I question the sincerity of his query. His use of language comes off as one who wants to be critical instead of genuinely attempting to answer a question. Questions in and of themselves are fine...but when there is an agenda behind it, as I sense there is here, they aren't really questions, are they?

[Col. Flagg]

Diatribe?

I find the use of that word a bit disrespectful. In fact, I consider this whole discussion a bit suspect and perhaps even inappropriate.

I seriously question the spirit in which these questions are asked.

OK, looks like the term 'diatribe' was used incorrectly - thought it meant something else other than a verbal attack. How about 'odd, long phrases'?

[Col. Flagg]

I consider this whole discussion a bit suspect and perhaps even inappropriate.

Inappropriate? Why?

The spirit in which this is approached just doesn't feel right. I sense he's mocking the Endowment. I question the sincerity of his query. His use of language comes off as one who wants to be critical instead of genuinely attempting to answer a question. Questions in and of themselves are fine...but when there is an agenda behind it, as I sense there is here, they aren't really questions, are they?

You would be incorrect Scrooge... it was an honest, genuine and sincere attempt to get to the bottom of some of the weird stuff that goes on in the endowment ceremony. FYI... was just at the Draper Temple last week in a session. You have to admit... there’s some pretty strange rituals we go through during the endowment and when you find out about 90% of it is derived from Freemason temple rites, you’re left goin’ ‘what the’? :-\

[2EstablishZion]

What boggles my mind are not the questions asked, but the idea that you believe an internet forum is going to provide a satisfactory answer to your questions.

[Rachael]

The book of Enoch has some interesting parallels with different levels of heaven and having to bypass these sentinel angels, but other than that, there are no scriptural references, except God employs no servant at the gate.... Even anti Mormons that have apostatized or a never member could find out how to do the signs/tokens on the internet, or maybe a master Mason could too. I assume by faith that people will have their eternal fate judged righteously, regardless of Masonic like pass words or handshakes.

[h_p]

I thought this book was helpful putting things into context: Sacred Symbols: Finding Meaning in Rites, Rituals and Ordinances

[edit] Maybe "context" isn't the right word, but seeing parallels with other similar things can help understand ours. I bet a lot of these rituals and symbols he talks about in the book have a common source with the true gospel.

[shadow]

You have to admit... there’s some pretty strange rituals we go through during the endowment and when you find out about 90% of it is derived from Freemason temple rites, you’re left goin’ ‘what the’? :-\ I would think I’d feel something more than like the Pillsbury dough boy after a session. Not mocking, just stating how many actually feel.

Have you wondered where the Freemasons got it from, belly boy?

[Col. Flagg]

What boggles my mind are not the questions asked, but the idea that you believe an internet forum is going to provide a satisfactory answer to your questions.

Been here for 10 years now… there’s a lot of good people on this forum and a lot of honest and trustworthy individuals with no agenda other than being a beacon of light for others.

[Col. Flagg]

You have to admit... there’s some pretty strange rituals we go through during the endowment and when you find out about 90% of it is derived from Freemason temple rites, you’re left goin’ ‘what the’? :-\ I would think I’d feel something more than like the Pillsbury dough boy after a session. Not mocking, just stating how many actually feel.

Have you wondered where the Freemasons got it from, belly boy?

The church was organized in 1830. Joseph joined the Freemasons in 1840 and the endowment was instituted as part of the temple experience in the early 1840's – he did not institute the Masonic temple rites.

[shadow]

You have to admit... there’s some pretty strange rituals we go through during the endowment and when you find out about 90% of it is derived from Freemason temple rites, you’re left goin’ ‘what the’? :-\ I would think I’d feel something more than like the Pillsbury dough boy after a session. Not mocking, just stating how many actually feel.

Have you wondered where the Freemasons got it from, belly boy?

The church was organized in 1830. Joseph joined the Freemasons in 1840 – he did not institute the Masonic temple rites.

Sure, but where did the Mason's get it from?

[Rachael]

Who knows...yeah knights Templar dug up something or papyrus with Jewish temple ceremonies at the temple site in Jerusalem, then it devolved into free Masonry ... or not. Who knows. But if it was something sacred, it's been changed a bunch of times from JS's day, when they're supposed to be unchanging, eternal.

[Contemplator]

I don't suppose that the meaning beyond the symbols that you asked about can be given through a forum like this. I don't know if one person could, or should, share their ideas on meaning. But, maybe there is an analogy that could be helpful.

In Matthew 13 Jesus tells a parable about a man sowing seeds in different kinds of ground. Afterword, we have this:

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

The disciples didn't understand the point of the story. In fact, it wasn't meant to be easy to understand. But, it meant something. For those who merely listen and move on, it is as if they hear without understanding and see without perceiving. For those who ask, "Lord, what does it mean?" as the disciples did, He teaches them what they are to learn.

The temple is like a parable. I can't imagine that I need a set of handclasps and gestures to get into heaven. But, maybe they represent something that I need to experience here in mortality to return to God's presence. (And, like Jeremy said, it could apply to this life, not just some future time after death.) With that in mind, I have asked the Lord, "What does it mean?" and I have been taught through the power of the Holy Ghost things that have brought me closer to God. My experience has been that when Jesus says, "Who hath ears to hear ... " it means, ask with real intent and God will speak to you. In the case of the temple, He will teach you the real meaning beyond the symbols.

[Original_Intent]

You have to admit... there’s some pretty strange rituals we go through during the endowment and when you find out about 90% of it is derived from Freemason temple rites, you’re left goin’ ‘what the’? :-\ I would think I’d feel something more than like the Pillsbury dough boy after a session. Not mocking, just stating how many actually feel.

Have you wondered where the Freemasons got it from, belly boy?

The church was organized in 1830. Joseph joined the Freemasons in 1840 – he did not institute the Masonic temple rites.

Point missed by a country mile. :-\

Hint: they are called MASONS for a reason. I wonder who built, oh, I don't know, the Jewish temples? Farmers? Fishermen?

[boo]

What boggles my mind are not the questions asked, but the idea that you believe an internet forum is going to provide a satisfactory answer to your questions.

And other than getting personal revelation do you have any other ideas ? Funny I though it was appropriate to seek the truth from all sources even the untutored opinion of strangers on the internet. We should have the gift of discernment after all

[diligently seeking]

I consider this whole discussion a bit suspect and perhaps even inappropriate.

Inappropriate? Why?

The spirit in which this is approached just doesn't feel right. I sense he's mocking the Endowment. I question the sincerity of his query. His use of language comes off as one who wants to be critical instead of genuinely attempting to answer a question. Questions in and of themselves are fine...but when there is an agenda behind it, as I sense there is here, they aren't really questions, are they?

You would be incorrect Scrooge... it was an honest, genuine and sincere attempt to get to the bottom of some of the weird stuff that goes on in the endowment ceremony. FYI... was just at the Draper Temple last week in a session. You have to admit... there’s some pretty strange rituals we go through during the endowment and when you find out about 90% of it is derived from Freemason temple rites, you’re left goin’ ‘what the’? :-\

Colflag-- preperation is so key. What does a person need to do to be enlightened by and feel heaven's healing Influence vs nurturing emotions that create doubt etc? There is a reason (and I find it very Instructive) that K.Benjamin before he delivered his sermon asked 4 or 5 requests of his people so they could be prepared / worthy for the marvelous blessings that awaited them. It Is quite something to receive similar blessings as K.B.'s people and to have proper preparation before attending spiritual destinations thereafter-- prove to bolster and strengthen faith all the more as a result of ---such proper preparation.. what do you think? As you know, the 5 essential requests are found in mosiah chp 2 in the beginning of chapter. look for key word "trifle"

A dearth of spiritual manifestations in one's life does not need to occur...

[Rachael]

You have to admit... there’s some pretty strange rituals we go through during the endowment and when you find out about 90% of it is derived from Freemason temple rites, you’re left goin’ ‘what the’? :-\ I would think I’d feel something more than like the Pillsbury dough boy after a session. Not mocking, just stating how many actually feel.

Have you wondered where the Freemasons got it from, belly boy?

The church was organized in 1830. Joseph joined the Freemasons in 1840 – he did not institute the Masonic temple rites.

Somebody did.

[Rachael]

I'm just glad I went through post 1990...