Endowment handshakes and tokens

[ason123]

Ponder this:

http://oneclimbs.com/2013/08/09/karate- ... rdinances/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Totally using this for my FHE lesson!

[oneClimbs]

It's like that sometimes. My sister and I were raised in the church and she married a Catholic who converted. He was much more 'ready' than she was when they got sealed. She was a little freaked out, as I was. Her husband loved it from day one

Catholics are heavily immersed in ritual, so I think they "get" ritual more than most, or are at least more accustomed to it. Latter-day Saint Sabbath services and surroundings at church are nowhere near as elaborate as the richly meaningful proceedings conducted in ornate cathedrals.

Maybe we wish that church and the temple were equally as rich in symbolism and ritual, it's a captivating thought, but I kind of like it the way it is. If we were around the temple all the time, would we appreciate the contrast? How wonderful it is to go to the temple and experience stepping out of one world and into another (which is intentional). Home after a long journey is never the same, but it hasn't changed, you just see it with different eyes.

A temple is a model of the cosmos; the cosmos above which holds all of creation, and the cosmos below which is man. That which is common is profane, but contrast parts light from darkness, revealing everything in between. Worlds without end for us to explore, and we think this only refers to orbiting planets. The endowed are veiled with a garment, a reminder of where the true temple is. How many dwell perpetually in the outer courtyards of consciousness, never setting foot inside the Holy of Holies within.

[Col. Flagg]

Found this information - can anyone corroborate it?

http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_clothes.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this is accurate, my questions RE the purpose/meaning for the hat and sash would seem answered.

[Separatist]

Found this information - can anyone corroborate it?

http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_clothes.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this is accurate, my questions RE the purpose/meaning for the hat and sash would seem answered.

Not sure if there is one right answer. Like a parable the meaning could be layered. Though this could give a good starting point.

[iWriteStuff]

Two thoughts:

1) Could this thread be taken to the Private Discussion area? I'm not sure all that is said in here is appropriate for public consumption

2) Read Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley:

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/book/temple-and-cosmos/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above linked book (for free) deepened my understanding of the temple, answered some questions, and opened up even more questions for me to consider as I participate in the ordinances of the temple. It is a useful tool, but none is more useful than the spirit of revelation you receive as you are worthy and as you go to the temple often.

Other than that, great questions! I love the temple and enjoy reflecting on all the deeper significance of the ordinances there.

One nice excerpt from Temple and Cosmos:

Only I know exactly the weight and force of the covenants I have made—I and the Lord with whom I have made them—unless I choose to reveal them. If I do not, then they are secret and sacred no matter what others may say or do. Anyone who would reveal these things has not understood them, and therefore that person has not given them away. You cannot reveal what you do not know! The constant concern is to keep Israel out of contact with the profane things of the world; the reason given is not absolute secrecy, but to keep these sacred things from becoming halal, that is, vulgar, popular, the subject of everyday discussion, in a word, trivia. This is what is meant by blasphemy, which signifies not some awful and horrible commitment to evil but simply taking holy things lightly.

[Mark]

Two thoughts:

1) Could this thread be taken to the Private Discussion area? I'm not sure all that is said in here is appropriate for public consumption

2) Read Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley:

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/book/temple-and-cosmos/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above linked book (for free) deepened my understanding of the temple, answered some questions, and opened up even more questions for me to consider as I participate in the ordinances of the temple. It is a useful tool, but none is more useful than the spirit of revelation you receive as you are worthy and as you go to the temple often.

Other than that, great questions! I love the temple and enjoy reflecting on all the deeper significance of the ordinances there.

One nice excerpt from Temple and Cosmos:

Only I know exactly the weight and force of the covenants I have made—I and the Lord with whom I have made them—unless I choose to reveal them. If I do not, then they are secret and sacred no matter what others may say or do. Anyone who would reveal these things has not understood them, and therefore that person has not given them away. You cannot reveal what you do not know! The constant concern is to keep Israel out of contact with the profane things of the world; the reason given is not absolute secrecy, but to keep these sacred things from becoming halal, that is, vulgar, popular, the subject of everyday discussion, in a word, trivia. This is what is meant by blasphemy, which signifies not some awful and horrible commitment to evil but simply taking holy things lightly.

Better yet move it to the celestial room in one of the temples where full disclosure can be discussed safely and properly. Having said that I am uncomfortable myself in receiving from others spiritual "cheat sheets" so to speak on the discovery of spiritual symbolism and meaning having made little or no effort on my part to receive those things from the Holy Spirit who really is the one that should be teaching it when someone is prepared sufficiently to learn it. That is the reason for much fasting and prayer and hours of meditation and contemplation in the temples.

[samizdat]

I have found evidences in the Bible that point to the ordinances performed in the endowment.

It's in Isaiah, hiding in plain sight. Also Exodus talks a little of it.

[Col. Flagg]

Two thoughts:

1) Could this thread be taken to the Private Discussion area? I'm not sure all that is said in here is appropriate for public consumption

2) Read Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley:

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/book/temple-and-cosmos/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above linked book (for free) deepened my understanding of the temple, answered some questions, and opened up even more questions for me to consider as I participate in the ordinances of the temple. It is a useful tool, but none is more useful than the spirit of revelation you receive as you are worthy and as you go to the temple often.

Other than that, great questions! I love the temple and enjoy reflecting on all the deeper significance of the ordinances there.

One nice excerpt from Temple and Cosmos:

Only I know exactly the weight and force of the covenants I have made—I and the Lord with whom I have made them—unless I choose to reveal them. If I do not, then they are secret and sacred no matter what others may say or do. Anyone who would reveal these things has not understood them, and therefore that person has not given them away. You cannot reveal what you do not know! The constant concern is to keep Israel out of contact with the profane things of the world; the reason given is not absolute secrecy, but to keep these sacred things from becoming halal, that is, vulgar, popular, the subject of everyday discussion, in a word, trivia. This is what is meant by blasphemy, which signifies not some awful and horrible commitment to evil but simply taking holy things lightly.

I should have posted this in the private discussion section.

Brian, can you move it there? Thanks.

[A Random Phrase]

I think, hidden in those, is a map to coming to Christ in this life. The symbolism is there to teach us a lot more than we could learn otherwise. The ceremony has been altered a few times, so I understand, but there may still be enough there that, coupled with prayer and scripture study, we may possibly find our way back to the Lord. Here. In this life.

At that time, I expect (and would hope) that the ceremony makes sense as we look back on it and see how it matches our own path back to our Lord. (and the handshakes may be for us to try the spirits to see if they're from God, not the other way around. Note Adam and his question, "How may I know you are true messengers?")

Been wondering about this for a long time and so I thought I'd bring it up for discussion... we are taught that records are being kept in heaven of our life here on earth and that the Lord and Savior know each and every one of us personally, right? Well, if so, why are we required to learn four different handshakes, their meanings, affiliated tokens and then long diatribe of the 4th one during the temple endowment ceremony in order to pass guardian angels to enter the presence of God on the other side of the veil some day after our mortal existence is complete here on earth? Surely if the Lord knows who we are and what our worthiness is, why are we required to render what are essentially four different passwords and memorized long diatribe that is the 4th token? In addition, I get why we dress in the robe and apron (their symbolism/meanings), but what the heck is the purpose of the sash and hat??? The endowment ceremony isn't even in the scriptures. If anyone can shed some light on these questions, I'm all ears.

[A Random Phrase]

Well if you like pantomiming ... it's sad you didn't get to go back then

The preacher has been taken out. He was a vital part of it - and a good warning to us as to who we listen to. Do we listen to men who have been preaching what the devil desires? After all, it is the LDS temple-worthy audience Lucifer points to when he says the message from the false teacher has been well-received.

[A Random Phrase]

I'm just glad I went through post 1990...

Actually it was far far more interesting pre 1970.

I first went through in 1980. I have no idea what it was like pre-1970. You make it seem interesting, indeed.

[A Random Phrase]

I have found evidences in the Bible that point to the ordinances performed in the endowment.

It's in Isaiah, hiding in plain sight. Also Exodus talks a little of it.

Also, Jesus had a prayer circle with the children in 3 Nephi. Angels descended. I think studying that part of the BofM prayerfully might yield some knowledge from heaven.

[A Random Phrase]

Since the endowment is a reenactment of returning to the presence of God, and we wear the fig leaf apron all the way through, that could very well mean that we can reconnect with God (in a literal way, seeing His face like Moses wanted the children of Israel to do) while still mortal, while still imperfect.

[Jeremy]

I should have posted this in the private discussion section.

Brian, can you move it there? Thanks.

Please don't. Doing so would reinforce this silly idea that we can only speak of these things within the wall of the temple. The oath that individuals make during the ceremony is very specific in regards to what we do not discuss or share. I haven't seen those things divulged here.

Please keep it public.

[David13]

It's very educational for me.
I think I'll drive down to the San Diego Temple tomorrow.
That will be 11 ceremonies at 9 different Temples for me, and I've been a member of the church for one year, and 6 days.
The First Presidency had given me permission to go early, due to cancer.
dc

[David13]

Catholics are heavily immersed in ritual, so I think they "get" ritual more than most, or are at least more accustomed to it. Latter-day Saint Sabbath services and surroundings at church are nowhere near as elaborate as the richly meaningful proceedings conducted in ornate cathedrals.

I came from a Catholic childhood. So I was aware of and able to accept ritual. However, I don't miss the Catholic church at all.
The ritual seemed empty at times, ritual just for the sake of ritual, and boring. I don't think the Catholic mass is really any more elaborate than passing the Sacrament is. I think the real meaning is in the human life of it, which is available in Sacrament meeting. Not Catholic mass. I sat thru' maybe 300 masses. And 55 Sacrament meetings.

Sacrament meeting today is ritual, but with live variety to it. Real people talking real life. I will hear and learn something different every hour. And I can see that I can never get it all even if I had a full lifetime to study it.
I think everyone my age that was baptized at 8 and been faithful in the church all their life agree that they learn something new every time.

The contrast with Temple and Sacrament block is important. Two different things but so related.
dc

[jockeybox]

I have found evidences in the Bible that point to the ordinances performed in the endowment.

It's in Isaiah, hiding in plain sight. Also Exodus talks a little of it.

I assume you mean this one (Isaiah 13)?

2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.

I use to think it was about the temple. But when I read it context of other Isaiah chapters, I feel differently now. The verse prior talks about the "burden of Babylon". I think it is more like an attack or military message concerning the King of Babylon.

I could be wrong. And you may not even be referencing that one. Just thought I would add a couple bits.

[samizdat]

No, not that one. A little further ahead. (response to Jockeybox)

[passionflower]

I first went to the temple about a week before going on my mission. This was back in the old-school days, before any films, etc. I went to the Salt Lake Temple, because it was the only temple close by in those days. There were no temple prep classes, just a recommend interview. I was 21 1/2 years old.

I have since wondered how David O McKay could have said he was disappointed in the temple. I loved it the moment I walked in and showed my recommend at the desk. I felt deeply the presence of the Holy Ghost testifying this to be the House of the Lord and the power of the Priesthood emanating so strongly that the walls almost seemed to be full of it. My initiatory and endowment were and still are the highlight of my life as I showed the Lord I loved him by being willing to submit myself to His ordinances. It was easy to see how every part of the endowment pointed to the ultimate truth of this iife, the very fact that Jesus was the Christ and he had saved me from the fall by virtue of my obedience to His commandments and covenants. Every part of the endowment taught me the need for a Redeemer, revealed the magnificent being who fulfilled that mission , and showed me how I could be saved from this fallen world by Him including the Resurrection from the dead. I felt His all knowing presence there, and consider the whole experience to be the most supreme holy apex of my life. It wasn't hard to see that the symbols given to me in the temple were very similar to those given in the Sacrament. In other words, I was given small things that meant something much larger, much deeper, than my mortal mind could possibly imagine or comprehend, but in seeking to understand, led to a revelatory experience of such amazing and awesome power that was beyond this world. The temple endowment experience is without parellel in any other religion, culture or fraternity, including the Free Masons. I left on my mission a week later, knowing I had been endowed with Power from on High, and went on to have a very successful mission. On the day I left to fly home, I went through the local temple very close to the Mission home, and what a clean beautiful feeling I had knowing the Lord accepted my sacrifice for the last 1 1/2 years as a keeping of my temple covenants to give all I had to the building of His Kingdom.

Why does God use all this formality? Doesn't He just know everything anyway? Why all this "weird" temple stuff?

The real answer to this lies in the Book of Hebrews, and has to do with the Priesthood. I advise Col Flagg, or anyone else to study it hard and deep. No revelation will come without sacrifice on the part of those who seek it. To want the Holy Ghost to testify the truth of all things, one must be willing to lay everything down on the altar for it.

If you truly are seeking an answer to your question, you must pay the price. And what does God ask? He asks it all......


On the lighter side, my trip to the temple I was accompanied by my mother, a temple ordinance worker. When we arrived in the Celestial Room, after sitting a few minutes, and I noticed my mother looking at her watch. She got up, and motioning me to go with her, walked a bit stealthily to one of the open doorways leading out to a hall. Holding my arm, she leaned through the doorway, looking both ways as she peered out. Checking her watch again, she suddenly pulled my arm and whispered urgently, "let's go!!"

I didn't want to "go!". I thought we should make nice and stay in the Celestial room, where we belonged. But my mother had been a member of the Dutch Underground during WW2, and if I had looked one bit hesitant or chicken, she would not have spoken to me the whole week before I would leave for the mission home, and may not have written to me for my whole mission!

So, off I go, somewhat nervously, on a whirlwind tour of the Salt Lake Temple. I saw everything, including the Office of the President of the Church, the office where James Talmage wrote Jesus the Christ ( and I don't mean we just ran by, but we went in. LIke I said, I had to look bold and confident in front of my mother!) The big meeting room of the Apostles was really nice, and besides all the sealing rooms and and other offices I went up and down several really wonderful oak spiral staircases. And the art was just beautiful! We finally arrived at the Assembly Hall, where I tried the microphone out at the podium and went looking out the windows. ( I was not comfortable with this, but honestly, if I had looked like "nice churchmembers don't do this" in front of my mother, she would have been sooooo ashamed of me!)

Finally, after probably a half hour ( and my mother is checking out her watch the whole time)we come up a staircase, go through an archway, and to my surprise "Voila" we were back in the Celestial room coming in from the opposite side from where we had left. My mother points out where the Holy of Holies is, describes it, and says she has been in there praying many times and told me one miracle that happened because of this. She promised me that one day she would take me inside. Maybe, on my thread in Outer Darkness, I will talk about that, Maybe.......

The next week, I was in the mission home. One day we all go on a temple session, and from there we went to a meeting in the Assembly Hall. This meeting was with someone in the Temple Presidency and all us missionaries. and we could ask questions about the endowment. Too bad you weren't there, Col Flagg. Anyway, one thing he said was that this was the only time we would ever be in this room. I sort of inwardly rolled my eyes at this, thinking, "but I was just here last week, standing right where you are, and with my mother to boot!"

Anyway, I know personally that the temple is a very sacred place, and everything in there means something important to our salvation. I take it all very seriously( and in spite of what this might look like) and strongly exhort everyone do the same.