Sealed portion of the plates

[Mark]

#-o Well, back to the drawing board I suppose.

Nobody seems to have picked up on my earlier comments about it.
I believe the sealed portion is hidden in plain sight.

Why should they? It may not be true simply based upon your suppositions nor what you personally believe.
We are told by God that we now possess the fulness of his gospel.
Does God purposely deceive us, or simply tell favorable lies in order to keep us riveted?
God does all things on his timing and pleasure. Maybe this is what we need to believe, huh?

Aside from the really snarky insinuations here,
everything you said actually helps prove my point.

If God claims to have given us the fullness, and He has,
how could this be so if the "sealed portion" is unavailable?

This supports my position that it is and has been available all along.
The only reason we haven't read it yet is due to unbelief that blinds us to it.
Thus, having been hidden in plain sight, it is entirely our own fault for not reading it.

What better way to convince people it is their own fault when they have had access to it all along?
And, when it does finally come out, this will vindicate true Prophets and expose false prophets.

Like:

Isaiah 55:8,9
8 ¶For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

The sealed portion will come forth when God decides to have it come forth.

Yes, and this doesn't preclude that God does it just as I am inviting you to consider.
Joseph Smith Jr. and Brigham Young attempted this but the people rejected it.
Therefore, the people will remain blind and unable to see such until they repent.

We also must remember that the BoM was also referred to as a sealed book.

What we do know for a fact can be more explicitly clarified as stating the following:
The plates our Book of Mormon was translated from didn't contain the seals to the sealed portion spoken of by it.
The plates that do contain the seals to the sealed portion were on a set of plates that accompanied those plates.
There is the distinct possibility the plates of brass are the very plates being spoken of that contains the seals.
If the seals are identified and opened as such, then the sealed portion can actually be woven throughout all holy writ.

The plates of brass accompanied the Book of Mormon plates and they contain all of the books of Moses that have a record of everything in the beginning. What do the plates of brass start with? The seven days of Creation, only these are Lord's Days, which are as a thousand years unto man. And D&C 77:7 says that each seal pertains to a millennial dispensation. So, couldn't each day of the creation account be a seal just waiting to be deciphered? That is the obvious conclusion that I see.

So, people can read right through Genesis 1 and 2 and totally miss its significance as a blueprint for the creation itself encoded in all the symbolism of the 7 days of creation. If you catch its significance, the entirety of all holy writ becomes radically transformed because you now have the master blueprint in your hands, provided you have the keys to decrypt it properly, which keys are found in the scriptures and made more obvious in the endowment. Joseph Smith Jr. had this blueprint or model for the creation and he had the means to decipher all of that meaningfully but the people refused to believe the truths he derived from such and have reverted back to the orthodox doctrines of Christianity where the creation account is concerned.

Let's see what scripture says, shall we?

Yes, of course. We shall.
And, are you prepared to admit how scripture supports me?

2 Nephi 27:10
10 But the words which are sealed he shall not deliver, neither shall he deliver the book. For the book shall be sealed by the power of God, and the revelation which was sealed shall be kept in the book until the own due time of the Lord, that they may come forth; for behold, they reveal all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof.

This scripture offers no explicit disproof of what I said above as a possibility.
When it says "for the book shall be sealed by the power of God" this is a reference to the "sealed portion" that merely hides beneath the seals.

D&C 35:18
18 And I have given unto him the keys of the mystery of those things which have been sealed, even things which were from the foundation of the world, and the things which shall come from this time until the time of my coming, if he abide in me, and if not, another will I plant in his stead.

1 Ne. 14:26
26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel

Ether 4:15
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.

So the sealed words are not hidden in plain sight, right?

I am saying the sealed words are hidden in plain sight.
The reason people do not read them is because of unbelief in the fullness of the Father.
The saints are too hung up on the precepts of men we inherited from orthodox Christianity.

It must be amazing for you to have such an all knowing understanding of what all the Saints are hung up on. I guess it comes with the job description as purveyor of all knowledge.

[jwharton]

I am saying the sealed words are hidden in plain sight.
The reason people do not read them is because of unbelief in the fullness of the Father.
The saints are too hung up on the precepts of men we inherited from orthodox Christianity.

It must be amazing for you to have such an all knowing understanding of what all the Saints are hung up on.
I guess it comes with the job description as purveyor of all knowledge.

I am in pursuit of all knowledge and I'm happy to share that which I have.

[freedomforall]

I am saying the sealed words are hidden in plain sight.
The reason people do not read them is because of unbelief in the fullness of the Father.
The saints are too hung up on the precepts of men we inherited from orthodox Christianity.

It must be amazing for you to have such an all knowing understanding of what all the Saints are hung up on.
I guess it comes with the job description as purveyor of all knowledge.

I am in pursuit of all knowledge and I'm happy to share that which I have.

The only thing is is that your audience is minute, thank goodness for that. A lot of us here on the forum think your statements are full of holes. And I believe they are an insult to God's revealed word. You can claim to be absolutely positive that you statements are true...merely because you say they are, which, by the way, falls under the term "precepts of men" but you continue to listen to no one else except your own voice. And if you can't go along with orthodox Christianity per the Mormon doctrine laid out in scripture, then you are essentially trying to start a new church, a breakoff. Are you okay with the consequences associated with the destroying other people's testimonies with your unorthodox doctrine? Does your bishop or SP know you teach unorthodox doctrine? This doesn't fly well with people who have a sure foundation taught them by the Holy Ghost. Are you attempting to replace God's Holy spirit?

Is the claiming of being a resurrected, exalted being truly not exceeding God's word?
Would Adam agree with your claim that he is the Savior's father?
Is the treating of the Holy Ghost pertaining to his role, so lightly, and you claiming to possess the HG as well as all others something you truly want us to internalize as truth?
Can you contradict scripture after scripture, still thinking of yourself as a doctrine guru...and that everyone should study and learn of the supposed truthfulness of what you teach, so eventually they will come around to your way of thinking? Why else would you be so relentless in forcing your Paradigm down us poor, misdirected, orthodox Christians throats?
Is the mocking of orthodox Christianity and using that mockery as a tool used to back up your version of truth something we truly must swallow? Isn't it truly the precepts of man mingled with scripture?

So, since the Mormons are so hung up on orthodox Christianity, based on "official church doctrine" "prayer" and "confirmation" by the Holy Ghost of its truthfulness...and the fact we are told to "feast upon the words" of Christ, He being the "fountain of all righteousness", we are now to follow Jwharton because his teachings supersede Christ's words given in scripture? And now we are to believe their are hidden messages in the scriptures?
Well, I find this insulting and problematic.

Do you want more evidence for clarity?

[freedomforall]

I am saying the sealed words are hidden in plain sight.
The reason people do not read them is because of unbelief in the fullness of the Father.
The saints are too hung up on the precepts of men we inherited from orthodox Christianity.

It must be amazing for you to have such an all knowing understanding of what all the Saints are hung up on.
I guess it comes with the job description as purveyor of all knowledge.

I am in pursuit of all knowledge and I'm happy to share that which I have.

Knowledge is quite often lacking truth. Good knowledge must contain 100% truth to be viable, otherwise, it goes back to experimentation. To have knowledge is good, but to pass on knowledge lacking truth is folly.

You may try to skirt around this scripture, or to wrest it, or simply ignore it...but it is very, very plain pertaining to those who think they know more than God, or teaches doctrine that God does not approve of.

2 Nephi 9:28
28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

Let's break it down for clarity:

Satan has cunning plans
men can be vain, frail and foolish
men may learn things, call it knowledge and assume they are wise, yet...
they hearken not, don't listen, to the counsel of God
men set aside the counsels of God, SUPPOSING THEY KNOW OF THEMSELVES.
mans own wisdom is nothing but foolishness and doesn't profit them at all
They shall perish

Could it get any plainer than this?

So orthodox Christianity is not so bad afterall, is it? And I'm highly pleased to be hung up on it.

[freedomforall]

Another point I want to make is this:

For arguments sake, Jwharton, let's pretend all of your beliefs are permeated with truth. By spreading it around you have in fact gone against the counsel of God. Why?

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learnings via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

Do you grasp the problem here?

[jwharton]

The only thing is is that your audience is minute, thank goodness for that.

Thank goodness that LDSFF is a small amount of people?

A lot of us here on the forum think your statements are full of holes.
And I believe they are an insult to God's revealed word.

And I have always invited you to please specifically point these things out to me.
I still look forward to you doing so but for whatever reason you never really hang in there.
I respond and show other scriptures that flesh out a more complete picture and then what I get from you is silence.
Why don't you hang in there and work cooperatively and respond to my grievances with your grievances?
Why do you always come right back to comments aimed at discrediting me personally?

You can claim to be absolutely positive that you statements are true...

That's a twist. I claim to be absolutely dedicated to seeking the truth and I am always open to giving ear to criticism.
I want to continue to expand my understanding and a vital part of that is fielding sincere criticisms.

merely because you say they are, which, by the way, falls under the term "precepts of men"
but you continue to listen to no one else except your own voice.

This is rather unfair. I put a tremendous amount of time and energy into responding to people.
I do listen carefully to what they say and I do try to understand them.

And if you can't go along with orthodox Christianity per the Mormon doctrine laid out in scripture, then you are essentially trying to start a new church, a breakoff.

Joseph Smith Jr. was incessantly plagued with people having the very same difficulty when he tried to teach the doctrines of the Father's Kingdom, the higher laws and the higher doctrines. This is our foundation that I simply wish to maintain complete integrity to. This is the Father's Plan and I will not be fully satisfied with anything but the Father's Plan and everything on connection with exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. If things are so far away from this that you feel the need to define such as starting a new church, that's a rather poor indication of our state of affairs.

Are you okay with the consequences associated with the destroying other people's testimonies with your unorthodox doctrine? Does your bishop or SP know you teach unorthodox doctrine? This doesn't fly well with people who have a sure foundation taught them by the Holy Ghost. Are you attempting to replace God's Holy spirit?

I participate here in hopes that all forum members here are simply sharing views back and fourth and that everyone is firmly rooted in having the Spirit of Truth so that their field of vision is clear and so that they are humble and worthy of receiving their own inspiration from the Holy Ghost.

Is the claiming of being a resurrected, exalted being truly not exceeding God's word?

I didn't claim to be exalted. I claimed to be immortal. And, I qualified the manner in which I meant such.

Would Adam agree with your claim that he is the Savior's father?

I already said before Michael-Adam is not the father of the Savior Jesus Christ.
I said the Michael-Adam from our 1830 AD time-frame will be the father of the Son of Man circa 1890 AD.
There is an important distinction here that needs to be made or you will just get yourself confused.

Is the treating of the Holy Ghost pertaining to his role, so lightly, and you claiming to possess the HG as well as all others something you truly want us to internalize as truth?
Can you contradict scripture after scripture, still thinking of yourself as a doctrine guru...and that everyone should study and learn of the supposed truthfulness of what you teach, so eventually they will come around to your way of thinking? Why else would you be so relentless in forcing your Paradigm down us poor, misdirected, orthodox Christians throats?
Is the mocking of orthodox Christianity and using that mockery as a tool used to back up your version of truth something we truly must swallow? Isn't it truly the precepts of man mingled with scripture?

So, since the Mormons are so hung up on orthodox Christianity, based on "official church doctrine" "prayer" and "confirmation" by the Holy Ghost of its truthfulness...and the fact we are told to "feast upon the words" of Christ, He being the "fountain of all righteousness", we are now to follow Jwharton because his teachings supersede Christ's words given in scripture? And now we are to believe their are hidden messages in the scriptures?
Well, I find this insulting and problematic.

Do you want more evidence for clarity?

I welcome you to show any and all evidence you feel you have.
I simply ask that you keep the focus on the principles and allow me the right to also clarify too

[jwharton]

I am saying the sealed words are hidden in plain sight.
The reason people do not read them is because of unbelief in the fullness of the Father.
The saints are too hung up on the precepts of men we inherited from orthodox Christianity.

It must be amazing for you to have such an all knowing understanding of what all the Saints are hung up on.
I guess it comes with the job description as purveyor of all knowledge.

I am in pursuit of all knowledge and I'm happy to share that which I have.

Knowledge is quite often lacking truth. Good knowledge must contain 100% truth to be viable, otherwise, it goes back to experimentation. To have knowledge is good, but to pass on knowledge lacking truth is folly.

You may try to skirt around this scripture, or to wrest it, or simply ignore it...but it is very, very plain pertaining to those who think they know more than God, or teaches doctrine that God does not approve of.

2 Nephi 9:28
28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

Let's break it down for clarity:

Satan has cunning plans
men can be vain, frail and foolish
men may learn things, call it knowledge and assume they are wise, yet...
they hearken not, don't listen, to the counsel of God
men set aside the counsels of God, SUPPOSING THEY KNOW OF THEMSELVES.
mans own wisdom is nothing but foolishness and doesn't profit them at all
They shall perish

Could it get any plainer than this?

So orthodox Christianity is not so bad afterall, is it? And I'm highly pleased to be hung up on it.

I have been and am striving to operate in a manner that is consistent to the principles in this scripture.

If Telestial law and Telestial glory is pleasing to you, I have no desire to dissuade you from it.
As for myself, I seek the further light and knowledge the Father promises to send so that exaltation in His Kingdom is possible.
I am not so willing to throw Joseph Smith Jr. and Brigham Young's deeper doctrines under the bus as you are.
The scripture here is actually very supportive of my endeavor to hold true to the oracles of God and the Father's Celestial Plan.

Have you looked yourself over where this scripture is concerned?
You could very well be caught up in the adversary's plan to usurp and subvert the Father's Celestial Plan.
On several occasions you have been vain, frail and foolish in our exchanges, like saying I claimed to be exalted.
While I just share my beliefs as such, you pound me over and over again as if your interpretation is without any error.
The context and premise you are coming from in our dialog is one that prejudges me as false and wrong.
My hope is that you simply try to understand what I am offering to show you and for you to then get your own witness.

[jwharton]

Another point I want to make is this:

For arguments sake, Jwharton, let's pretend all of your beliefs are permeated with truth. By spreading it around you have in fact gone against the counsel of God. Why?

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learnings via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

Do you grasp the problem here?

Do you also agree that a time comes when the probationary season draws to a close?

[freedomforall]

Another point I want to make is this:

For arguments sake, Jwharton, let's pretend all of your beliefs are permeated with truth. By spreading it around you have in fact gone against the counsel of God. Why?

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learnings via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

Do you grasp the problem here?

Do you also agree that a time comes when the probationary season draws to a close?

Nice dodge, again. Answer a question with an unrelated question. Typical. This tells me you don't have a clue as to what the scripture teaches us. And you failed to answer about your bishop and Stake President knowing what you're doing.
So...you see it makes no difference as to what scriptures I post to back my knowledge and for clarification as you so adamantly request. You didn't even acknowledge the scripture. In fact it didn't even phase you, nor dissuade you from teaching stuff you shouldn't be teaching. Therefore, your stubborness and relentless pursuit of getting people to believe your doctrine...is well noted, once again.
I was hoping I could wake you up to your folly, but it is near impossible. You keep Joseph Smith and Brigham Young in your pocket, teaching things they may have said and using it as a basis for your paradigm...a paradigm that is emphatically not from anything canonized. The only reasoning that is allowed is for people to come to accept your view, then you gloat over your success. Your posts reveal this intent over and over. You continue to say "I", "I", "try to see it my way...then we'll get some place." Anything to avert the truth and expound your paradigm relentlessly.
I say you outright ignore the scripture above and will promote your doctrine until hell freezes over. Your ego will not allow for any other view to be of worth, especially official church doctrine.

BTW, the probationary season closes upon the death of each individual in this life. Scripture makes this so plain and clear that to wrest them would be tragic.

Try reading scripture as written, then you will see the hidden messages of truth right before your eyes.

Truth is...that scripture I posted has nothing to do with the ending of our probationary state. So let's try it again, shall we...for clarity? I'll even type slower so as to not confuse you.

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

Point one...It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God---Rather a simplistic statement, right?
Point two...nevertheless---An emphatic cautionary warning, right?
Point three...they are laid under a strict command---An emphatic course of action to be followed without question.

Are you keeping up with me so far?

Point four...that they shall not impart---do not tell people things that they are not ready for. When we divulge things God entrusted us with, then God will not be so trusting in granting any further information. He doesn't like blabber mouths.
Point five...only (except) according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men---basic orthodox Christian knowledge
Point six...according to the heed and diligence---once we learn something above and beyond common knowledge we then must live according to the new info.
Point seven...which they give unto him---keeping God's commandments.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learning's via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

[jwharton]

Another point I want to make is this:

For arguments sake, Jwharton, let's pretend all of your beliefs are permeated with truth. By spreading it around you have in fact gone against the counsel of God. Why?

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learnings via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

Do you grasp the problem here?

Do you also agree that a time comes when the probationary season draws to a close?

Nice dodge, again. Answer a question with an unrelated question. Typical.
This tells me you don't have a clue as to what the scripture teaches us.

What I inferred by saying "Do you ALSO agree" is:
Yes, I agree with the scripture above and yes I see the problem you are referring to.
But, do you ALSO (thus expanding meaning) agree the time comes for our probation to end?

I answered your question clearly with agreement and acknowledgement and did not dodge it.
However, you are who just did the very thing you have accused me of doing.
You are who dodged my question.

And you failed to answer about your bishop and Stake President knowing what you're doing.

I have told you over and over and over that my personal life is none of your business.

So...you see it makes no difference as to what scriptures I post to back my knowledge and for clarification as you so adamantly request. You didn't even acknowledge the scripture. In fact it didn't even phase you, nor dissuade you from teaching stuff you shouldn't be teaching. Therefore, your stubborness and relentless pursuit of getting people to believe your doctrine...is well noted, once again. I was hoping I could wake you up to your folly, but it is near impossible.

What should be noted here is your incessant and desperate quest to try and discredit me personally.

You keep Joseph Smith and Brigham Young in your pocket, teaching things they may have said and using it as a basis for your paradigm...a paradigm that is emphatically not from anything canonized.

I make no apologies for staying with the original temple endowment and the early deeper doctrines concerning the Father.
I also make no apologies for seeking an understanding of the Bible in the same manner Joseph Smith Jr. did as much as possible.
I was never fully satisfied with the orthodox doctrines and the Spirit always pressed me to keep digging with a promise.
The promise was if I sought the Father's Kingdom with all my heart, mind, might and strength that its mysteries would be unfolded to me.
And, that there would be some few others who would also be doing this and that together we would participate in Zion's redemption.
I am here on this forum sharing my understanding and sincerely considering the understanding of others in pursuit of truth.
I also recognize that many will be in a posture of immediate disbelief of anything that departs from the orthodox view.
My spiritual guidance is that I am only to present my understanding for what it is and simply ask people to consider it.

The only reasoning that is allowed is for people to come to accept your view, then you gloat over your success. Your posts reveal this intent over and over. You continue to say "I", "I", "try to see it my way...then we'll get some place." Anything to avert the truth and expound your paradigm relentlessly.
I say you outright ignore the scripture above and will promote your doctrine until hell freezes over. Your ego will not allow for any other view to be of worth, especially official church doctrine.

Maybe you should do more talking about yourself and your views instead of claiming to be such an authority on mine.
You have yet to demonstrate to me that you even try to understand me.
I used the word "I" and "my" because I am sharing my own views for you to consider.
What other view do I have any authority to speak of?

BTW, the probationary season closes upon the death of each individual in this life.
Scripture makes this so plain and clear that to wrest them would be tragic.

Yes, I do not disagree that physical death is a significant way-point in someone's probation.
There is also a time when the season of probation in the wilderness for Adam and Eve comes to a close.

Try reading scripture as written, then you will see the hidden messages of truth right before your eyes.

The scriptures fully support what I have drawn attention to.
Think of the parable of the 10 virgins.
They were preparing for a specific event that affects everyone yet living.
This is when the Bridegroom comes, which is the Father.
This is when the Father's Celestial plan overcomes the adversary's counterfeit plan.
This is the focus of my studies and it is scriptural.
We are supposed to be watching for this time with vigilance.

Truth is...that scripture I posted has nothing to do with the ending of our probationary state.

I had a very clear and definite connection I was making, but from the looks of it you are far more interested in discrediting me than having a conversation where mutual confirmed clarity of understanding matters.

So let's try it again, shall we...for clarity? I'll even type slower so as to not confuse you.

I already agreed with this scripture, which you missed.
No need for further clarity where those points are concerned.

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

Point one...It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God---Rather a simplistic statement, right?
Point two...nevertheless---An emphatic cautionary warning, right?
Point three...they are laid under a strict command---An emphatic course of action to be followed without question.

Are you keeping up with me so far?

Point four...that they shall not impart---do not tell people things that they are not ready for. When we divulge things God entrusted us with, then God will not be so trusting in granting any further information. He doesn't like blabber mouths.
Point five...only (except) according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men---basic orthodox Christian knowledge
Point six...according to the heed and diligence---once we learn something above and beyond common knowledge we then must live according to the new info.
Point seven...which they give unto him---keeping God's commandments.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learning's via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

As I said before, there is a point in time when all things shall be revealed.
When that happens people who have the Spirit of Truth will have oil in their lamps and they will "see".
There will be many others who won't have sufficient "oil" in their lamps who will remain in the dark.
Jesus made no apology on behalf of those who were insufficiently prepared when that time comes.

There is also another parable about the wedding feast, which pertains to receiving the full banquet of the Word of God.
Those who are bidden to this great feast are the children of the Kingdom.
But, when the time for the feast arrived, very few if any paid any heed.
So, what was then done? This feast was offered to a wider audience in a wider format.
It still remained important that they had their wedding garment so righteousness was still required.
So, when those who were bidden do not come, the Lord does eventually allow for some desperate measures.

[freedomforall]

Another point I want to make is this:

For arguments sake, Jwharton, let's pretend all of your beliefs are permeated with truth. By spreading it around you have in fact gone against the counsel of God. Why?

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learnings via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

Do you grasp the problem here?

Do you also agree that a time comes when the probationary season draws to a close?

Nice dodge, again. Answer a question with an unrelated question. Typical.
This tells me you don't have a clue as to what the scripture teaches us.

What I inferred by saying "Do you ALSO agree" is:
Yes, I agree with the scripture above and yes I see the problem you are referring to. Do you believe it?
But, do you ALSO (thus expanding meaning) agree the time comes for our probation to end? Just what does this have to do with the topic? Thank you for validating my point.

I answered your question clearly with agreement and acknowledgement and did not dodge it. So you conveniently miss its implications and specific order?
However, you are who just did the very thing you have accused me of doing.
You are who dodged my question. For clarity...we die.

And you failed to answer about your bishop and Stake President knowing what you're doing.

I have told you over and over and over that my personal life is none of your business. Heck, why not simply run down to each of their offices and straighten them out pertaining to gospel teachings. Better yet, go visit the prophet and straighten him out. With stuff that important why hold back? Heck, with all the vigor used on this forum, you shouldn't be ashamed, afraid or shy to do so, right?

So...you see it makes no difference as to what scriptures I post to back my knowledge and for clarification as you so adamantly request. You didn't even acknowledge the scripture. In fact it didn't even phase you, nor dissuade you from teaching stuff you shouldn't be teaching. Therefore, your stubborness and relentless pursuit of getting people to believe your doctrine...is well noted, once again. I was hoping I could wake you up to your folly, but it is near impossible.

What should be noted here is your incessant and desperate quest to try and discredit me personally. Incorrect. I am trying to discredit the errors in doctrine you're trying to get people to draw to. You, personally, may be a very good, righteous man, it's not about you personally.

You keep Joseph Smith and Brigham Young in your pocket, teaching things they may have said and using it as a basis for your paradigm...a paradigm that is emphatically not from anything canonized.

I make no apologies for staying with the original temple endowment and the early deeper doctrines concerning the Father. And I make no apologies for teaching doctrine right out of scripture, not depending on unorthodox and uncanonized statements as reference points. If I were to do so then I'd post this and raise havoc. I merely don't let this bother me to the point of going radical. One must understand what was going on in Joseph's mind, his feelings and intent after reading 11th Chap. II Corinthians.:
.............................................................................................................................................
President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. II Corinthians. My object
is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to
stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this
generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did I should
be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my
brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has
constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly
so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man
mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world,
I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster; I shall
always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail
at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my
spoke under, they will keep me down--but for the fools, I will hold on and
fly over them.

God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits,
indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye
prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains,
roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more
to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been
able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large
majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor
Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The
followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran
away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the
bosom of a virtuous and good people.
https://archive.org/stream/HistoryOfThe ... arch/boast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.............................................................................................................................................
I also make no apologies for seeking an understanding of the Bible in the same manner Joseph Smith Jr. did as much as possible. Do you use the provided cross references and JST? These are the tools I use for clarity, otherwise, why are they there for us to use in the first place?
I was never fully satisfied with the orthodox doctrines and the Spirit always pressed me to keep digging with a promise. Here lies the real problem. You don't like the simplicity of orthodox doctrine, so you had to find some other slant to satisfy that dislike, you wanted something you can believe, not anyone else. In other words, you bucked the system because you weren't satisfied with the truth taught in scripture, being the official church doctrine. Satan knew you are not satisfied with what we're taught, so...he helped you to come up with an alternate doctrine for you to believe. It sounded so believable that now your on a campaign to get other people to accept it. Thus causing others to deviate from their own testimony and beliefs for doctrine that makes no sense except to the person soaking it in to satisfy their lack of wanting to adhere to that which comes out of scripture, that which God tells all of us to feast upon. We wouldn't be told to feast upon the word if it was faulty
and missing correct information. God doesn't work that way, never! That would be labeled as deceit. We learn line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little until we learn all the mysteries.
..............................................................................................................................................
D&C 98:12
12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith.

D&C 128:21
21 And again, the voice of God in the chamber of old Father Whitmer, in Fayette, Seneca county, and at sundry times, and in divers places through all the travels and tribulations of this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! And the voice of Michael, the archangel; the voice of Gabriel, and of Raphael, and of divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the present time, all declaring their dispensation, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood; giving line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little, and there a little; giving us consolation by holding forth that which is to come, confirming our hope!

Isaiah 28:13
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and (b)fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

(b)
IE In spite of the Lord’s instructing Israel through prophets, many of the people apostatized.
.............................................................................................................................................
The promise was if I sought the Father's Kingdom with all my heart, mind, might and strength that its mysteries would be unfolded to me. I honor that promise, I really do. I just think you are looking beyond the mark. I could be in error thinking this. The doctrine espoused here is way beyond what scriptures teach is all.
And, that there would be some few others who would also be doing this and that together we would participate in Zion's redemption. How can you not fully believe in orthodox Christianity, more specifically Mormon doctrine, and even think that you can redeem Zion? Do you see the dichotomy here? Zion is based on the word of God as taught by the Holy Ghost. And we are not immortal in this life. Immortality is comprised of a resurrected body and our spirit, a spirit God the Father created. We come to earth as mortals and then we are raised to immortality as God says. It is the work and glory of God to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. We have to go through the refiner's fire to see if we pass for eternal life, Celestial Kingdom, at the end of our probation here on earth.
I am here on this forum sharing my understanding and sincerely considering the understanding of others in pursuit of truth. My suggestion to you is to ask those you address...how and why they came to their conclusion(s). In other words, listen and respond and listen some more. After all you're talking to some people that do believe orthodox teachings and know in their heart that it is right, after much feasting on the word, pondering and prayer.
I also recognize that many will be in a posture of immediate disbelief of anything that departs from the orthodox view. And why should they believe it? The plan of salvation is a rather easy thing to learn through studying the word of God and believing it in a n orthodox fashion. How else can people come to see eye to eye with God? Can they if their doctrine doesn't match what is taught? Christ says...follow me, do as I do, think like I do and be still and know that I am God, Jehovah.
My spiritual guidance is that I am only to present my understanding for what it is and simply ask people to consider it. Why? Based on your own admission that orthodox teachings do not appeal to you, it makes no sense for others to adopt it on your word. It would take an angelic visit before I'd believe it, because I've read the scriptures a lot and know in my heart that that I have learned from them is accurate...something to do with faith and hope. An alternate, unorthodox doctrine does not compel me to consider nor internalize it.

The only reasoning that is allowed is for people to come to accept your view, then you gloat over your success. Your posts reveal this intent over and over. You continue to say "I", "I", "try to see it my way...then we'll get some place." Anything to avert the truth and expound your paradigm relentlessly.
I say you outright ignore the scripture above and will promote your doctrine until hell freezes over. Your ego will not allow for any other view to be of worth, especially official church doctrine.

Maybe you should do more talking about yourself and your views instead of claiming to be such an authority on mine. Believe me, I've tried to. You on the other hand have side stepped a lot of it and came back with non-associated questions. I assume it is because you don't want to hear orthodox truths.
You have yet to demonstrate to me that you even try to understand me. See it's all about you again. Even if I were to understand everything you put out there, what the heck would be accomplished by it? Who gets the most benefit? And even if I understood, doesn't mean I'd convert to it. I know better. I would be going against my own, hard earned testimony.
I used the word "I" and "my" because I am sharing my own views for you to consider. As I have asked before, then what?
What other view do I have any authority to speak of? You may want to seek an answer for yourself. But my guess is...try to teach the plan of salvation as laid out in scripture. Start with Alma 40-42. Learn how to become perfect in this life, Moroni 10:32,33. Learn how we acquire the grace of God, 2 Nephi 25:23 Learn that MMP is impossible, Mosiah 4:6, D&C 138:17. Learn that the earth as we know it will pass away and a new heaven and new earth will be created, Ether 13:9; ( D&C 29:23; ) D&C 88:18–19; And that the earth yearns to be cleansed:

Moses 7:48
48 And it came to pass that Enoch looked upon the earth; and he heard a voice from the bowels thereof, saying: Wo, wo is me, the mother of men; I am pained, I am weary, because of the wickedness of my children. When shall I rest, and be cleansed from the filthiness which is gone forth out of me? When will my Creator sanctify me, that I may rest, and righteousness for a season abide upon my face?. This is the Terrestrial state of the earth before it comes to an end.

BTW, the probationary season closes upon the death of each individual in this life.
Scripture makes this so plain and clear that to wrest them would be tragic.

Yes, I do not disagree that physical death is a significant way-point in someone's probation.
There is also a time when the season of probation in the wilderness for Adam and Eve comes to a close. We covered this.

Try reading scripture as written, then you will see the hidden messages of truth right before your eyes.

The scriptures fully support what I have drawn attention to. Please show all sources as I have.
Think of the parable of the 10 virgins. Five were slothful
They were preparing for a specific event that affects everyone yet living. Yes, preparing for the Saviors return.
This is when the Bridegroom comes, which is the Father. It is Jesus Christ. Then the Father and Son will be on the Celestial world yet to be created. Jehovah is also considered as a Father, Mosiah 15:1-5
This is when the Father's Celestial plan overcomes the adversary's counterfeit plan. Can't argue this. Satan doesn't want any of us going to the CK.
This is the focus of my studies and it is scriptural. What are your references?
We are supposed to be watching for this time with vigilance. Agree

Truth is...that scripture I posted has nothing to do with the ending of our probationary state.

I had a very clear and definite connection I was making, but from the looks of it you are far more interested in discrediting me than having a conversation where mutual confirmed clarity of understanding matters. Do orthodox teachings matter to you? Sounds like a one sided conversation according to your confession above.

So let's try it again, shall we...for clarity? I'll even type slower so as to not confuse you.

I already agreed with this scripture, which you missed.
No need for further clarity where those points are concerned.

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

Point one...It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God---Rather a simplistic statement, right?
Point two...nevertheless---An emphatic cautionary warning, right?
Point three...they are laid under a strict command---An emphatic course of action to be followed without question.

Are you keeping up with me so far?

Point four...that they shall not impart---do not tell people things that they are not ready for. When we divulge things God entrusted us with, then God will not be so trusting in granting any further information. He doesn't like blabber mouths.
Point five...only (except) according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men---basic orthodox Christian knowledge
Point six...according to the heed and diligence---once we learn something above and beyond common knowledge we then must live according to the new info.
Point seven...which they give unto him---keeping God's commandments.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learning's via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

As I said before, there is a point in time when all things shall be revealed.
When that happens people who have the Spirit of Truth will have oil in their lamps and they will "see".
There will be many others who won't have sufficient "oil" in their lamps who will remain in the dark.
Jesus made no apology on behalf of those who were insufficiently prepared when that time comes.

There is also another parable about the wedding feast, which pertains to receiving the full banquet of the Word of God.
Those who are bidden to this great feast are the children of the Kingdom.
But, when the time for the feast arrived, very few if any paid any heed.
So, what was then done? This feast was offered to a wider audience in a wider format.
It still remained important that they had their wedding garment so righteousness was still required.
But, when those who were bidden do not come the Lord does eventually go to desperate measures. Okay!

This is my 13,000th post. Yeay!

[jwharton]

FFA, I will not be responding to this post above point for point.
My time is limited today as I have lots of things going on.
Also, my sense is you are too unwilling to really try and understand me.
The benefit I stand to receive is then your criticism would finally have teeth.
As long as you don't actually see what I see, your judgment of what I see is useless to me.
The benefit I lose when you refuse to understand me is the benefit of relevant criticism.

If there is anything in this post you sincerely want my attention drawn to or for me to address, please start a new thread or send me a PM.

I would like this thread to stay focused on the sealed portion of the scriptures and not get hijacked with personal stuff.

[Finrock]

Another point I want to make is this:

For arguments sake, Jwharton, let's pretend all of your beliefs are permeated with truth. By spreading it around you have in fact gone against the counsel of God. Why?

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learnings via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

Do you grasp the problem here?

Do you also agree that a time comes when the probationary season draws to a close?

Nice dodge, again. Answer a question with an unrelated question. Typical. This tells me you don't have a clue as to what the scripture teaches us. And you failed to answer about your bishop and Stake President knowing what you're doing.
So...you see it makes no difference as to what scriptures I post to back my knowledge and for clarification as you so adamantly request. You didn't even acknowledge the scripture. In fact it didn't even phase you, nor dissuade you from teaching stuff you shouldn't be teaching. Therefore, your stubborness and relentless pursuit of getting people to believe your doctrine...is well noted, once again.
I was hoping I could wake you up to your folly, but it is near impossible. You keep Joseph Smith and Brigham Young in your pocket, teaching things they may have said and using it as a basis for your paradigm...a paradigm that is emphatically not from anything canonized. The only reasoning that is allowed is for people to come to accept your view, then you gloat over your success. Your posts reveal this intent over and over. You continue to say "I", "I", "try to see it my way...then we'll get some place." Anything to avert the truth and expound your paradigm relentlessly.
I say you outright ignore the scripture above and will promote your doctrine until hell freezes over. Your ego will not allow for any other view to be of worth, especially official church doctrine.

BTW, the probationary season closes upon the death of each individual in this life. Scripture makes this so plain and clear that to wrest them would be tragic.

Try reading scripture as written, then you will see the hidden messages of truth right before your eyes.

Truth is...that scripture I posted has nothing to do with the ending of our probationary state. So let's try it again, shall we...for clarity? I'll even type slower so as to not confuse you.

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

Point one...It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God---Rather a simplistic statement, right?
Point two...nevertheless---An emphatic cautionary warning, right?
Point three...they are laid under a strict command---An emphatic course of action to be followed without question.

Are you keeping up with me so far?

Point four...that they shall not impart---do not tell people things that they are not ready for. When we divulge things God entrusted us with, then God will not be so trusting in granting any further information. He doesn't like blabber mouths.
Point five...only (except) according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men---basic orthodox Christian knowledge
Point six...according to the heed and diligence---once we learn something above and beyond common knowledge we then must live according to the new info.
Point seven...which they give unto him---keeping God's commandments.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learning's via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

I keep thinking "The Princes Bride" and Vizzini, The Sicilian. :))

Freedomforall, that is a lot of energy to essentially tear a person down. Who are you trying to impress?

-Finrock

[freedomforall]

Freedomforall, that is a lot of energy to essentially tear a person down. Who are you trying to impress?

-Finrock

Pick someone!

[freedomforall]

Please forgive me if I am way off base. I am very far from having a deep understanding of the scriptures.

With the release of the photos of the seer stones, I wondered if they were shown to everyone because they would be used in the near future.

With different GC talks and topics, I have felt for some time that it is going to be harder and harder to follow the prophet and have wondered what it could be that would make it so hard. I know the LGBTQ issues were a tipping point for many but certainly not for everyone. I feel like it is going to get harder.

So I was reading yesterday in Either about the Brother of Jared.

Either 1:2-5 "2 And I take mine account from the twenty and four plates which were found by the people of Limhi, which is called the Book of Ether.

3 And as I suppose that the first part of this record, which speaks concerning the creation of the world, and also of Adam, and an account from that time even to the great tower, and whatsoever things transpired among the children of men until that time, is had among the Jews--

4 Therefore I do not write those things which transpired from the days of Adam until that time; but they are had upon the plates; and whoso findeth them, the same will have power that he may get the full account.

5 But behold, I give not the full account, but a part of the account I give, from the tower down until they were destroyed.

Now we believe the Bible to be the word of God as FAR as it is translated correctly. As I read this I seriously wondered if these are what is part of the sealed plates. More biblical information including the "plain and precious truths that were removed." I wonder if they will be unsealed in the near future and cause a major uproar. I am thinking that there's doesn't need to be any major revelations(in our eyes), just enough difference from the current Bible that we currently are use to that will cause a lot of ridicule from the main people of the world. Enough for people standing near the fence to push them over.

Just a thought.

Perhaps you can sort this stuff out and make sense of it. I hope this info helps. We will see that the Book of Mormon contains the plain and precious parts of the gospel held back, that it is the sealed parts of the gospel brought forth for Joseph Smith to translate. Please follow the provided references in scripture for a deeper understanding. I tried to post most of the chapters and verses, but had considered posting only the chaps and vrs. Anyway, this should shed some light on the topic. I understand, too, that there are other writings to come forth at a later time. Perhaps even the 116 pages from the BOM that were lost. Enjoy.

1 Nephi 13:26
26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

Morm. 8:33
33 O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.

Moses 1:41
41 And in a day when the children of men shall esteem my words as naught and take many of them from the book which thou shalt write, behold, I will raise up another like unto thee; and they shall be had again among the children of men—among as many as shall believe.

1 Nephi 19:22-24
22 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, did teach my brethren these things; and it came to pass that I did read many things to them, which were engraven upon the plates of brass, that they might know concerning the doings of the Lord in other lands, among people of old.
23 And I did read many things unto them which were written in the books of Moses; but that I might more fully persuade them to believe in the Lord their Redeemer I did read unto them that which was written by the prophet Isaiah; for I did liken all scriptures unto us, that it might be for our profit and learning.
24 Wherefore I spake unto them, saying: Hear ye the words of the prophet, ye who are a remnant of the house of Israel, a branch who have been broken off; hear ye the words of the prophet, which were written unto all the house of Israel, and liken them unto yourselves, that ye may have hope as well as your brethren from whom ye have been broken off; for after this manner has the prophet written.

1 Ne. 14:21 (20–26)
20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.

A of F 1:8

2 Ne. 27:10 (6–23)
6 And it shall come to pass that the Lord God shall bring forth unto you the words of a book, and they shall be the words of them which have slumbered.
7 And behold the book shall be sealed; and in the book shall be a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof.
8 Wherefore, because of the things which are sealed up, the things which are sealed shall not be delivered in the day of the wickedness and abominations of the people. Wherefore the book shall be kept from them.
9 But the book shall be delivered unto a man, and he shall deliver the words of the book, which are the words of those who have slumbered in the dust, and he shall deliver these words unto another;
10 But the words which are sealed he shall not deliver, neither shall he deliver the book. For the book shall be sealed by the power of God, and the revelation which was sealed shall be kept in the book until the own due time of the Lord, that they may come forth; for behold, they reveal all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof.
11 And the day cometh that the words of the book which were sealed shall be read upon the house tops; and they shall be read by the power of Christ; and all things shall be revealed unto the children of men which ever have been among the children of men, and which ever will be even unto the end of the earth.
12 Wherefore, at that day when the book shall be delivered unto the man of whom I have spoken, the book shall be hid from the eyes of the world, that the eyes of none shall behold it save it be that three witnesses shall behold it, by the power of God, besides him to whom the book shall be delivered; and they shall testify to the truth of the book and the things therein.
13 And there is none other which shall view it, save it be a few according to the will of God, to bear testimony of his word unto the children of men; for the Lord God hath said that the words of the faithful should speak as if it were from the dead.
14 Wherefore, the Lord God will proceed to bring forth the words of the book; and in the mouth of as many witnesses as seemeth him good will he establish his word; and wo be unto him that rejecteth the word of God!
15 But behold, it shall come to pass that the Lord God shall say unto him to whom he shall deliver the book: Take these words which are not sealed and deliver them to another, that he may show them unto the learned, saying: Read this, I pray thee. And the learned shall say: Bring hither the book, and I will read them.
16 And now, because of the glory of the world and to get gain will they say this, and not for the glory of God.
17 And the man shall say: I cannot bring the book, for it is sealed.
18 Then shall the learned say: I cannot read it.
19 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that the Lord God will deliver again the book and the words thereof to him that is not learned; and the man that is not learned shall say: I am not learned.
20 Then shall the Lord God say unto him: The learned shall not read them, for they have rejected them, and I am able to do mine own work; wherefore thou shalt read the words which I shall give unto thee.
21 Touch not the things which are sealed, for I will bring them forth in mine own due time; for I will show unto the children of men that I am able to do mine own work.
22 Wherefore, when thou hast read the words which I have commanded thee, and obtained the witnesses which I have promised unto thee, then shalt thou seal up the book again, and hide it up unto me, that I may preserve the words which thou hast not read, until I shall see fit in mine own wisdom to reveal all things unto the children of men.
23 For behold, I am God; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith.

2 Nephi 30:17
17 There is nothing which is secret save it shall be revealed; there is no work of darkness save it shall be made manifest in the light; and there is nothing which is sealed upon the earth save it shall be loosed.

Ether 3:21 (21–27)
21 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt not suffer these things which ye have seen and heard to go forth unto the world, until the time cometh that I shall glorify my name in the flesh; wherefore, ye shall treasure up the things which ye have seen and heard, and show it to no man.
22 And behold, when ye shall come unto me, ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read.
23 And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write.
24 For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.
25 And when the Lord had said these words, he showed unto the brother of Jared all the inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be; and he withheld them not from his sight, even unto the ends of the earth.
26 For he had said unto him in times before, that if he would believe in him that he could show unto him all things—it should be shown unto him; therefore the Lord could not withhold anything from him, for he knew that the Lord could show him all things.
27 And the Lord said unto him: Write these things and seal them up; and I will show them in mine own due time unto the children of men.

Ether 4:5 (4–7)
4 Behold, I have written upon these plates the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.
5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.
6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

D&C 35:18
18 And I have given unto him the keys of the mystery of those things which have been sealed, even things which were from the foundation of the world, and the things which shall come from this time until the time of my coming, if he abide in me, and if not, another will I plant in his stead.

1 Nephi 13:35,36
35 For, behold, saith the Lamb: I will manifest myself unto thy seed, that they shall write many things which I shall minister unto them, which shall be plain and precious; and after thy seed shall be destroyed, and dwindle in unbelief, and also the seed of thy brethren, behold, these things shall be hid up, to come forth unto the Gentiles, by the gift and power of the Lamb.
36 And in them shall be written my gospel, saith the Lamb, and my rock and my salvation.

Therefore, the Book of Mormon contains the plain and precious parts of the gospel held back by the abominable church, the book that was sealed up and hid from the world until Joseph Smith translated them.

[jwharton]

I keep thinking "The Princes Bride" and Vizzini, The Sicilian. :))

Freedomforall, that is a lot of energy to essentially tear a person down. Who are you trying to impress?

-Finrock

I couldn't resist watching this again:

[ason123]

There's a guy, Christopher Nemelka, that claims he translated the sealed portion of the BoM.
http://www.mrm.org/christopher-nemelka" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't trust Christopher Nemelka. Just see this website below. He is no man of God.
http://chrisnemelka.com/timeline-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kingdom of ZION]

The sealed portion exists within our existing scriptures.
That's what it means that they are sealed.
We have them it's just that people fail to open the seals.

Joseph Smith Jr. did gain access to this and tried to help people see it too but they couldn't get out of the precepts of men that orthodox Christianity had their minds so entrenched in.

The temple endowment is designed to open up the seals for those who finally come to understand what all the symbols, keys, tokens, etc. mean.
In fact, I dare say the endowment ceremony is a presentation of the seals of the sealed portion. That's why it is such an important part of our faith.

Very close on what is before us, but the plates that were sealed, and the knowledge of the other 2/3's of the golden plates are not here! They have not come forth! When you see a Dispensation Presidency come forth with much power... then you find the kingdom of G_d and Sealed portions as promised!

Shalom

[Jeremy]

The sealed portion exists within our existing scriptures.
That's what it means that they are sealed.

:ymapplause:

...I chose not to comment on your original statement out of a desire to avoid contention. However I wouldn't want you to think you are being completely ignored . Just completely rejected...

=)) That was funny.

On a more serious note, I think completely rejecting this idea is serving as proof to the claim. Its right before us while remaining sealed and hidden from view.

Such is the nature of the heavenly I suppose.

[jwharton]

The sealed portion exists within our existing scriptures.
That's what it means that they are sealed.
We have them it's just that people fail to open the seals.

Joseph Smith Jr. did gain access to this and tried to help people see it too but they couldn't get out of the precepts of men that orthodox Christianity had their minds so entrenched in.

The temple endowment is designed to open up the seals for those who finally come to understand what all the symbols, keys, tokens, etc. mean.
In fact, I dare say the endowment ceremony is a presentation of the seals of the sealed portion. That's why it is such an important part of our faith.

Very close on what is before us, but the plates that were sealed, and the knowledge of the other 2/3's of the golden plates are not here! They have not come forth! When you see a Dispensation Presidency come forth with much power... then you find the kingdom of G_d and Sealed portions as promised!

Shalom

Where do you get the 2/3's ratio from?
Whose to say this wasn't the plates of Laban?
In which case, the sealed portion's seals are simply in the Torah.

[Obrien]

#-o Well, back to the drawing board I suppose.

Nobody seems to have picked up on my earlier comments about it.
I believe the sealed portion is hidden in plain sight.

Unhide away...
We, the concrete thinking, linear minded, symbolically-challenged await your key.

[jwharton]

#-o Well, back to the drawing board I suppose.

Nobody seems to have picked up on my earlier comments about it.
I believe the sealed portion is hidden in plain sight.

Unhide away...
We, the concrete thinking, linear minded, symbolically-challenged await your key.

The most consolidated effort I have made to open up some things, though by no means do I claim everything, is in a thread that recently died.

The main key is to understand that we, collectively speaking, are covenant bodies and that the Adam and Eve narrative pertains to us.
This is why getting out of the orthodox Christian paradigm is so crucial because if you stay in that you can never see us for who we are.

Carefully study this thread and you will have more details about it.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kingdom of ZION]

The sealed portion exists within our existing scriptures.
That's what it means that they are sealed.
We have them it's just that people fail to open the seals.

Joseph Smith Jr. did gain access to this and tried to help people see it too but they couldn't get out of the precepts of men that orthodox Christianity had their minds so entrenched in.

The temple endowment is designed to open up the seals for those who finally come to understand what all the symbols, keys, tokens, etc. mean.
In fact, I dare say the endowment ceremony is a presentation of the seals of the sealed portion. That's why it is such an important part of our faith.

Very close on what is before us, but the plates that were sealed, and the knowledge of the other 2/3's of the golden plates are not here! They have not come forth! When you see a Dispensation Presidency come forth with much power... then you find the kingdom of G_d and Sealed portions as promised!

Shalom

Where do you get the 2/3's ratio from?
Whose to say this wasn't the plates of Laban?
In which case, the sealed portion's seals are simply in the Torah.

This is just one of many places you can find this stated....

What is the “sealed portion” of the Book of Mormon, and will we ever know what’s in it?
Print Share

When Moroni was finishing the Book of Mormon record, he was commanded to seal up some of the plates, and Joseph Smith was later commanded not to translate them. This sealed portion contains the complete record of the vision of the brother of Jared (see Ether 4:4–5). This vision included “all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof” (2 Nephi 27:10–11; see also Ether 3:25). So basically the Lord revealed to the brother of Jared the history of mankind, and the sealed portion of the plates was Moroni’s translated copy of it.

Few people have seen the sealed record—for instance, the Nephites in the land Bountiful at the Savior’s coming (see Ether 4:1–2) and Moroni (see Ether 12:24). The Lord said the sealed portion would be revealed to the world “in mine own due time” (Ether 3:27). He also said it would “not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord” (Ether 4:6; see also 2 Nephi 27:8).

According to Joseph Smith’s associates who saw the golden plates, anywhere from half to two-thirds of all the plates were in the sealed portion (see Kirk B. Henrichsen, “What Did the Golden Plates Look Like?” New Era, July 2007, 31).

https://www.lds.org/new-era/2011/10/to- ... t?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kingdom of ZION]

Another point I want to make is this:

For arguments sake, Jwharton, let's pretend all of your beliefs are permeated with truth. By spreading it around you have in fact gone against the counsel of God. Why?

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

In other words, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. People who may have the opportunity of learning mysteries up and above that which everyone else knows by their own studies and learnings via the scriptures...is to be kept in one's own mind and not spread around. By divulging it, one can weaken or destroy another persons testimony due to them only learning the "milk" of the gospel until they're ready for the "meat" and more. This is God's plan, line upon line, precept upon precept until they can grasp all things.

Do you grasp the problem here?

Based upon this strict interpretation of the written scriptures ALL the Prophets are condemned! Even Alma for declaring this doctrine about the Mysteries might be accused as to having let a secret principle out. If such was the case we might all proclaim that, 'the gospel is the best kept secret in the world!'

[freedomforall]

#-o Well, back to the drawing board I suppose.

Nobody seems to have picked up on my earlier comments about it.
I believe the sealed portion is hidden in plain sight.

Unhide away...
We, the concrete thinking, linear minded, symbolically-challenged await your key.

The most consolidated effort I have made to open up some things, though by no means do I claim everything, is in a thread that recently died.

The main key is to understand that we, collectively speaking, are covenant bodies and that the Adam and Eve narrative pertains to us.
This is why getting out of the orthodox Christian paradigm is so crucial because if you stay in that you can never see us for who we are.

Carefully study this thread and you will have more details about it.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In other words, let's get away from the doctrine of Christ laid out in scripture and go with the precepts of men. All the people that have read, studied, prayed about and learned with all due diligence...must now reject all that they have learned and adopt the New Gospel of the person that wrote that which is in red above. By his own confession...he doesn't believe in the orthodox Christianity doctrine Christ had so many men write in scripture, it is better to learn all the things that were never canonized and twist it all around in order to create a whole new paradigm. Makes a lot of sense...if one doesn't think about it much and just go along with the new program. Just because one guy doesn't like orthodox teachings...all people should follow this new doctrine and forget all they ever thought they knew and have a deep rooted testimony of. It's crucial, right?