To avoid further contention I put your name on my ignore list and Bump this thread! It's only fair and right. You Jwharton do what yanks your chain so darn much. I'm tired of hearing your lame excuses and false comebacks to suit your ego. I don't need to prove anything so I bow out.jwharton wrote:A more appropriate response given the facts at hand would be along these lines....freedomforall wrote:I can't keep going round and round over this. You believe what you want. The church says this doctrine is false, I say it is false...scriptures do not corroborate it...so it must be false.I'm sorry I have been assuming things about your beliefs.
I realize now that what you believe isn't what I thought.
However, you have gone somewhere with your beliefs that I choose not to go.
I feel to caution you that I believe you have gone somewhere you shouldn't.
But, since I don't have the patience or the motivation to clearly see things as you do in order to fully judge, I will just reserve any judgment at all.
I sincerely wish you the very best and I will no longer trouble you about your beliefs.Uh, do I need to remind you that Michael-Adam's battle against the adversary was won not too long after he was cast out in the wilderness?freedomforall wrote:God telling Adam that he will be at the head does not mean anything other than Michael being the leader of the saints that go into battle to conquer Satan and his armies...and nothing else.
Adam and Eve were redeemed in their lifetime as is taught in the Pearl of Great Price.
So, Adam had already won that fight by the time of Adam-ondi-Ahman, 3 years prior to his passing away.
That's how Adam is able to perform all of the temple work during the Millennium before the adversary is loosed again.
This isn't a debate to me. It is an excellent way for each of us to deepen our understandings.freedomforall wrote:I told you how the cycles work and yet all I get back is more things to reject. I'm not so weak and frail as to accept this stuff which has no real basis. I assume you only want to debate and argue rather than take scripture for what it is and not what some people claim them to be. This is just plain foolishness.
I do get wary of all of the personal wrangling you seem to want to inject in, but I am simply here to frankly share and to accept anyone's challenges if they feel inclined to offer such.
I already am a member of Michael's body of flesh and bone.freedomforall wrote:Are you going to become Michael of some future world?
We are in the latter-days when Michael stands up and faces a time of trouble.
This is the body of the Melchizedek Priesthood established through the instrumentality of Joseph Smith Jr.
We have already been through the Garden of Eden in Jackson County Missouri and transgressed and were driven out.
We are currently in the lone and dreary wilderness of the Great Basin and under the buffetings of the adversary.
If I am true and faithful in all things that I have covenanted with the Father to build up His Celestial Kingdom...
I will remain a member of Michael-Adam's body of flesh and bone when Zion is redeemed and attain exaltation in that capacity.
This doesn't mean that I am Michael in and of myself, but it means that I have played my part as a member of His body.
And, for me, I consider this a great honor to be a part of this noble effort.
It gives great purpose to all of the mundane things we are asked to do.
That is exactly what my wife and I are doing right now by having our posterity sealed to us in the temple.freedomforall wrote:You can if you want, but according to scripture and church teachings each male and female that keep the temple covenants and so forth will have their own dominion, principality and worlds, and they will people them as well.
I don't need a planet of my own in order to accomplish these things.
I just need to have an inheritance with the Father and His Kingdom.
Everything promised in the temple can be fulfilled here and now by those who are faithful.
If your version of the plan of salvation requires you to acquire a habitable planet of your own, you should be feeling pretty frustrated right now.
A Christian would use the exact same basis to justify rejecting the Book of Mormon.freedomforall wrote:Sorry, it has taken years to learn what I know through prayer, study and pondering, nor did I accept it simply because "the other guy said to" so I'm not interested in changing it now. You see, I do accept orthodox Mormon teachings of the 21st century. My salvation is based on what I have learned from the writings in the Book of Mormon.
Is all I am doing is inviting you to see more of what is available, not take away truths you currently hold.
For just salvation I agree, but in order to be proven true and faithful in all things and to become exalted in the Celestial Kingdom, you must truly know the Father and the Son here and now in the flesh.freedomforall wrote:None of this Adam-God stuff effects our salvation as long as we keep the commandments, covenants and endure to the end as promised. This other stuff is needless.
Is all you have proven is that you disbelieve the various false interpretations that are out there surrounding the Adam-God teachings of Brigham Young.freedomforall wrote:I suppose if Brian is okay with this doctrine being promoted, then who am I to say otherwise? I've said my piece and provided scripture after scripture in such a way as to prove my points. Other people here can chose for themselves. Some here have been riveted by it already. So be it. I may as well be talking to a mud covered, brick wall.
But, you have had my agreement upon this particular point all along. I agree there are many false interpretations out there to beware of.
The reason we are going around in circles is because you decline to open your mind to the possibility that there is a way in which these teachings can be understood differently and in such a way that there are no points of disagreement with the standard works. You like the level of depth you are currently at and you have no desire to involve yourself in my exploration of this lost paradigm.
In short, I have invited you to have a look at the scriptures in a new light by means of unsealing a new way of reading them.
You have flat out rejected my invitation and done everything possible to malign me personally to attempt to dissuade others.
For the record, I know this contention between I and Jwharton may be troublesome to many here. I take responsibility for attempting to bring to light the doctrine meant for us to learn and internalize, a doctrine not shared by the one I address in these posts of late by his own admission herein. This is Brian's forum and I try to present the gospel as his rules dictate. I'm sorry for any disgust or dismay I may have caused. But, I'll be candid here as well. I am ashamed of the people here who refuse to stand up and defend the gospel of Jesus Christ, the plan of salvation and the Godhead as we ought to have learned and come to know. I stand as witness to the backsliding of so many saints on this forum who will not open their mouth. However, I can rest assure that God is troubled too about this as well. D&C 76 describes those people who will not open their mouths for Jesus Christ and how he feels about it.
I've tried to do my best all along. The forum is not like it was many years ago so that's the way it is I suppose. I thank those who went out of their way to dialog with me and have some fun now and again. As it is written...we can have lots and we can have fun, but, we cannot have lots of fun.
I want to thank Brian, too, for putting up with me. I've had a few infractions as well.