Always Submit to the Church Administration

[Joel]

[Ezra]

Yes don't think for yourself. Just do what we tell you too.

Only one person needs to think which is the prophet. You don't need to understand just do what he says and follow. @-)


D&c 131

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

5 The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.


If you don't know why. If you don't know the path to walk on yourself. Following someone eles won't do you any good. We cannot be saved in ignorance. We must know why we do what we do. No one can follow ones way into the celestial kingdom. We have to have the knowledge to make our own way there. We are not following others to the celestial kingdom we are walking hand in hand besides others who have gone befor.
Because it's our own chosen path we walk on by knowledge we have gained to know its correct.

[zionminded]

Salvation comes by obedience. Exaltation comes by creating a relationship with Christ and then the Father, not His Church or any church.

[Rose Garden]

Adorable kids.

[Sarah]

Salvation comes by obedience. Exaltation comes by creating a relationship with Christ and then the Father, not His Church or any church.

We create those relationships by entering into ordinances and then by keeping covenants. Keeping covenants is what draws the Lord nearer to us and us nearer to him. By keeping baptismal and temple covenants, we become like him, so that someday rather than Him saying, we never knew him, he will welcome us into his presence.

[zionminded]

Salvation comes by obedience. Exaltation comes by creating a relationship with Christ and then the Father, not His Church or any church.

We create those relationships by entering into ordinances and then by keeping covenants. Keeping covenants is what draws the Lord nearer to us and us nearer to him. By keeping baptismal and temple covenants, we become like him, so that someday rather than Him saying, we never knew him, he will welcome us into his presence.

That's right. There are low level covenants, and higher level ones. Lower level ones are facilitated by His church. Higher ones are facilitated by righteous angels, and then higher ones by Christ himself.

[Zathura]

Salvation comes by obedience. Exaltation comes by creating a relationship with Christ and then the Father, not His Church or any church.

We create those relationships by entering into ordinances and then by keeping covenants. Keeping covenants is what draws the Lord nearer to us and us nearer to him. By keeping baptismal and temple covenants, we become like him, so that someday rather than Him saying, we never knew him, he will welcome us into his presence.

I see this huge emphasis put on keeping baptismal and temple covenants in the church day, but it confuses me. Perhaps you can help.

Can you find me places where Joseph Smith talked about baptismal and temple convenants in the same manner that you are speaking of them? Can you find me a place in the Book of Mormon or Bible (Which supposedly contain the fullness of the Gospel) in which they speak of baptismal covenants and temple covenants in the same manner that you are? Please, find me another scripture aside from the one time Alma mentioned covenants.
For the amount of importance placed on these things today, I imagine this should be repeated often in the scriptures.

Could you show me where the scriptures teach that a relationship with God is created by ordinances and covenants?
I came to have a relationship with God at the most wicked time of my life, I wasn't keeping any covevnants at that time, and yet a relationship was created.

I'm not saying these things to tear you down, but I'm honestly asking for an answer to these questions

It also didn't seem that Enos, Alma the Younger Nephi, and many others created a relationship through ordinances and covenants. It seemed that they cried unto Christ and were born of God, and immediately had a relationship with him because they had his Spirit with them.

[Obrien]

Salvation comes by obedience. Exaltation comes by creating a relationship with Christ and then the Father, not His Church or any church.

We create those relationships by entering into ordinances and then by keeping covenants. Keeping covenants is what draws the Lord nearer to us and us nearer to him. By keeping baptismal and temple covenants, we become like him, so that someday rather than Him saying, we never knew him, he will welcome us into his presence.

I see this huge emphasis put on keeping baptismal and temple covenants in the church day, but it confuses me. Perhaps you can help.

Can you find me places where Joseph Smith talked about baptismal and temple convenants in the same manner that you are speaking of them? Can you find me a place in the Book of Mormon or Bible (Which supposedly contain the fullness of the Gospel) in which they speak of baptismal covenants and temple covenants in the same manner that you are? Please, find me another scripture aside from the one time Alma mentioned covenants.
For the amount of importance placed on these things today, I imagine this should be repeated often in the scriptures.

Could you show me where the scriptures teach that a relationship with God is created by ordinances and covenants?
I came to have a relationship with God at the most wicked time of my life, I wasn't keeping any covevnants at that time, and yet a relationship was created.

I'm not saying these things to tear you down, but I'm honestly asking for an answer to these questions

It also didn't seem that Enos, Alma the Younger Nephi, and many others created a relationship through ordinances and covenants. It seemed that they cried unto Christ and were born of God, and immediately had a relationship with him because they had his Spirit with them.

If you want to have a people anxiously engaged in earning their salvation, it is imperative to give them something to do. Ordinances are exceptionally useful for this purpose, because you can be busy, busy busy being righteous by performing ordinances, and never gain relationship with God. Jesus came to heal the sick, bind the broken and lift the hands that hang low, not to saddle people with ritual. Some of His most scathing invective in the NT is aimed at awesome ordinance keepers.

[Zathura]

Salvation comes by obedience. Exaltation comes by creating a relationship with Christ and then the Father, not His Church or any church.

We create those relationships by entering into ordinances and then by keeping covenants. Keeping covenants is what draws the Lord nearer to us and us nearer to him. By keeping baptismal and temple covenants, we become like him, so that someday rather than Him saying, we never knew him, he will welcome us into his presence.

I see this huge emphasis put on keeping baptismal and temple covenants in the church day, but it confuses me. Perhaps you can help.

Can you find me places where Joseph Smith talked about baptismal and temple convenants in the same manner that you are speaking of them? Can you find me a place in the Book of Mormon or Bible (Which supposedly contain the fullness of the Gospel) in which they speak of baptismal covenants and temple covenants in the same manner that you are? Please, find me another scripture aside from the one time Alma mentioned covenants.
For the amount of importance placed on these things today, I imagine this should be repeated often in the scriptures.

Could you show me where the scriptures teach that a relationship with God is created by ordinances and covenants?
I came to have a relationship with God at the most wicked time of my life, I wasn't keeping any covevnants at that time, and yet a relationship was created.

I'm not saying these things to tear you down, but I'm honestly asking for an answer to these questions

It also didn't seem that Enos, Alma the Younger Nephi, and many others created a relationship through ordinances and covenants. It seemed that they cried unto Christ and were born of God, and immediately had a relationship with him because they had his Spirit with them.

If you want to have a people anxiously engaged in earning their salvation, it is imperative to give them something to do. Ordinances are exceptionally useful for this purpose, because you can be busy, busy busy being righteous by performing ordinances, and never gain relationship with God. Jesus came to heal the sick, bind the broken and lift the hands that hang low, not to saddle people with ritual. Some of His most scathing invective in the NT is aimed at awesome ordinance keepers.

True

[kennyhs]

Salvation comes by obedience. Exaltation comes by creating a relationship with Christ and then the Father, not His Church or any church.

We create those relationships by entering into ordinances and then by keeping covenants. Keeping covenants is what draws the Lord nearer to us and us nearer to him. By keeping baptismal and temple covenants, we become like him, so that someday rather than Him saying, we never knew him, he will welcome us into his presence.

I see this huge emphasis put on keeping baptismal and temple covenants in the church day, but it confuses me. Perhaps you can help.

Can you find me places where Joseph Smith talked about baptismal and temple convenants in the same manner that you are speaking of them? Can you find me a place in the Book of Mormon or Bible (Which supposedly contain the fullness of the Gospel) in which they speak of baptismal covenants and temple covenants in the same manner that you are? Please, find me another scripture aside from the one time Alma mentioned covenants.
For the amount of importance placed on these things today, I imagine this should be repeated often in the scriptures.

Could you show me where the scriptures teach that a relationship with God is created by ordinances and covenants?
I came to have a relationship with God at the most wicked time of my life, I wasn't keeping any covevnants at that time, and yet a relationship was created.

I'm not saying these things to tear you down, but I'm honestly asking for an answer to these questions

It also didn't seem that Enos, Alma the Younger Nephi, and many others created a relationship through ordinances and covenants. It seemed that they cried unto Christ and were born of God, and immediately had a relationship with him because they had his Spirit with them.

If you want to have a people anxiously engaged in earning their salvation, it is imperative to give them something to do. Ordinances are exceptionally useful for this purpose, because you can be busy, busy busy being righteous by performing ordinances, and never gain relationship with God. Jesus came to heal the sick, bind the broken and lift the hands that hang low, not to saddle people with ritual. Some of His most scathing invective in the NT is aimed at awesome ordinance keepers.

Ordinances merely give us something to do? We never gain a relationship with God?

And Stahura, you think that the importance placed on these things should be repeated more often in the scriptures? Good gosh, those men
must have been lazy, because Stahura thinks it should have been written about more.

From my perspective, those of you who claim to know God's ways, who express we are saddled with rituals, who think they know a better way,
who criticize and speak such blasphemous words, are anything but close to God.

I'm done with this, good grief.

[Zathura]

Kenny, I asked a honest question. And yes, I think the most important things will be repeated,
That's why there are countless stories of people seeing God and countless stories of the baptism of fire and countless scriptures speaking of being born of God.

There must be a reason the bible and Book of Mormon each speak of keys what, one time?

Either way, I asked an honest question. If it bothers others too much to consider my question and seek out and find an answer with me (as Elder Ballard counseled us to do) well, that's not my problem


PS. The Book of Mormon apparently contains the fullness of the Gospel without putting an emphasis on covenants and keys.

[kennyhs]

Kenny, I asked a honest question. And yes, I think the most important things will be repeated,
That's why there are countless stories of people seeing God and countless stories of the baptism of fire and countless scriptures speaking of being born of God.

There must be a reason the bible and Book of Mormon each speak of keys what, one time?

Either way, I asked an honest question. If it bothers others too much to consider my question and seek out and find an answer with me (as Elder Ballard counseled us to do) well, that's not my problem


PS. The Book of Mormon apparently contains the fullness of the Gospel without putting an emphasis on covenants and keys.

I apologize, I do sense you were sincere in the question asked.

[Jeremy]

The Book of Mormon apparently contains the fullness of the Gospel without putting an emphasis on covenants and keys.

The Book of Mormon is a covenant. It's very name is a reference to a renewed covenant (not simply a man named Mormon).

[Obrien]

Sarah and Stahura wrote interesting things, then Obrien said -
----------
If you want to have a people anxiously engaged in earning their salvation, it is imperative to give them something to do. Ordinances are exceptionally useful for this purpose, because you can be busy, busy busy being righteous by performing ordinances, and never gain relationship with God. Jesus came to heal the sick, bind the broken and lift the hands that hang low, not to saddle people with ritual. Some of His most scathing invective in the NT is aimed at awesome ordinance keepers.

---------------
Then Kennyhs said-
Ordinances merely give us something to do? We never gain a relationship with God?

And Stahura, you think that the importance placed on these things should be repeated more often in the scriptures? Good gosh, those men
must have been lazy, because Stahura thinks it should have been written about more.

From my perspective, those of you who claim to know God's ways, who express we are saddled with rituals, who think they know a better way,
who criticize and speak such blasphemous words, are anything but close to God.

I'm done with this, good grief.

---------------
Obrien says-
Kenny - we have been reading the first 4 books of the NT as a family lately. I was thinking specifically about the Israelites at the time of Christ when I wrote my post. I don't consider what I said blasphemous at all, and certainly didn't intend it to be so. The fact is that people often lose sight of WHY they are performing ordinances, and place keeping the ordinance above relationship with Jesus. This was the state of a significant portion of the the chosen people in Christ's time, so i don't think it's a phenomena confined to His era only. There is no new thing under the sun.

[Rose Garden]

I can't get the dang tune out of my head . . . keep feeling the strange compulsion to watch the video again . . .

[Mark]

Yes don't think for yourself. Just do what we tell you too.

Only one person needs to think which is the prophet. You don't need to understand just do what he says and follow. @-)


D&c 131

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

5 The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.


If you don't know why. If you don't know the path to walk on yourself. Following someone eles won't do you any good. We cannot be saved in ignorance. We must know why we do what we do. No one can follow ones way into the celestial kingdom. We have to have the knowledge to make our own way there. We are not following others to the celestial kingdom we are walking hand in hand besides others who have gone befor.
Because it's our own chosen path we walk on by knowledge we have gained to know its correct.

You do understand that this video was produced by The Church of Christ media outlets and they have absolutely no connection with the LDS faith right Ezra? I'm sure Joel knows this but just felt "inspired" to post it on the LDSff. But heck why waste an opportunity to take another shot at the LDS faith and its Prophets right? You people are to much. :o)

[Ezra]

Yes don't think for yourself. Just do what we tell you too.

Only one person needs to think which is the prophet. You don't need to understand just do what he says and follow. @-)


D&c 131

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

5 The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.


If you don't know why. If you don't know the path to walk on yourself. Following someone eles won't do you any good. We cannot be saved in ignorance. We must know why we do what we do. No one can follow ones way into the celestial kingdom. We have to have the knowledge to make our own way there. We are not following others to the celestial kingdom we are walking hand in hand besides others who have gone befor.
Because it's our own chosen path we walk on by knowledge we have gained to know its correct.

You do understand that this video was produced by The Church of Christ media outlets and they have absolutely no connection with the LDS faith right Ezra? I'm sure Joel knows this but just felt "inspired" to post it on the LDSff. But heck why waste an opportunity to take another shot at the LDS faith and its Prophets right? You people are to much. :o)

Even if it was promoted by the church it would not change anything in my mind. I know this is gods church. I know he will cleans it. Which means there is a need. I know I need to do all I can to support and teach Christs teachings and his church. Just because members and leaders are imperfect as we all are. Does not mean to abandon ship. We must to our best to do what we can in teaching true principles as we learn them.

What's up mark? You usually have such a good additude and there for approach to confronting others when you disagree. Not that you and I do that I know of. I love ya mark and your (usually ) humble input.

[Mark]

Yes don't think for yourself. Just do what we tell you too.

Only one person needs to think which is the prophet. You don't need to understand just do what he says and follow. @-)


D&c 131

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

5 The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.


If you don't know why. If you don't know the path to walk on yourself. Following someone eles won't do you any good. We cannot be saved in ignorance. We must know why we do what we do. No one can follow ones way into the celestial kingdom. We have to have the knowledge to make our own way there. We are not following others to the celestial kingdom we are walking hand in hand besides others who have gone befor.
Because it's our own chosen path we walk on by knowledge we have gained to know its correct.

You do understand that this video was produced by The Church of Christ media outlets and they have absolutely no connection with the LDS faith right Ezra? I'm sure Joel knows this but just felt "inspired" to post it on the LDSff. But heck why waste an opportunity to take another shot at the LDS faith and its Prophets right? You people are to much. :o)

Even if it was promoted by the church it would not change anything in my mind. I know this is gods church. I know he will cleans it. Which means there is a need. I know I need to do all I can to support and teach Christs teachings and his church. Just because members and leaders are imperfect as we all are. Does not mean to abandon ship. We must to our best to do what we can in teaching true principles as we learn them.

What's up mark? You usually have such a good additude and there for approach to confronting others when you disagree. Not that you and I do that I know of. I love ya mark and your (usually ) humble input.

Maybe it's this freezing cold weather I am subjecting myself to here in Utah. Last week I was swimming in the keys in FL at 85 degrees and this week I'm freezing to death in 15 degree frostbite weather. Now I know why shadowsnowman is so grumpy all the time having to live in Cache county. Who would blame him? I dreamed a while back that a wolf was attacking me but couldn't bite my leg like it wanted to. Last night I dreamed that same wolf was after me again but was getting closer to taking a chunk out of my leg than the dream before. It's back was shaped a lot like a sheep which was weird. I hope he doesn't finally get to me tonight. I hate the sight of my own blood! Cheers Ezra. Stick with the real deal who have real authority and legit keys and avoid all the imposters out there. They will eat you alive.

[creator]

Always Submit to the Church Administration

Is this real life. Ouch.

[marc]

I thought it was someone parodying our church, but it seems other churches also "follow the prophet."

[Ezra]

It's a very catchy song. It's stuck in my head. :((

[Ezra]

Yes don't think for yourself. Just do what we tell you too.

Only one person needs to think which is the prophet. You don't need to understand just do what he says and follow. @-)


D&c 131

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

5 The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.


If you don't know why. If you don't know the path to walk on yourself. Following someone eles won't do you any good. We cannot be saved in ignorance. We must know why we do what we do. No one can follow ones way into the celestial kingdom. We have to have the knowledge to make our own way there. We are not following others to the celestial kingdom we are walking hand in hand besides others who have gone befor.
Because it's our own chosen path we walk on by knowledge we have gained to know its correct.

You do understand that this video was produced by The Church of Christ media outlets and they have absolutely no connection with the LDS faith right Ezra? I'm sure Joel knows this but just felt "inspired" to post it on the LDSff. But heck why waste an opportunity to take another shot at the LDS faith and its Prophets right? You people are to much. :o)

Even if it was promoted by the church it would not change anything in my mind. I know this is gods church. I know he will cleans it. Which means there is a need. I know I need to do all I can to support and teach Christs teachings and his church. Just because members and leaders are imperfect as we all are. Does not mean to abandon ship. We must to our best to do what we can in teaching true principles as we learn them.

What's up mark? You usually have such a good additude and there for approach to confronting others when you disagree. Not that you and I do that I know of. I love ya mark and your (usually ) humble input.

Maybe it's this freezing cold weather I am subjecting myself to here in Utah. Last week I was swimming in the keys in FL at 85 degrees and this week I'm freezing to death in 15 degree frostbite weather. Now I know why shadowsnowman is so grumpy all the time having to live in Cache county. Who would blame him? I dreamed a while back that a wolf was attacking me but couldn't bite my leg like it wanted to. Last night I dreamed that same wolf was after me again but was getting closer to taking a chunk out of my leg than the dream before. It's back was shaped a lot like a sheep which was weird. I hope he doesn't finally get to me tonight. I hate the sight of my own blood! Cheers Ezra. Stick with the real deal who have real authority and legit keys and avoid all the imposters out there. They will eat you alive.

No worrys there. The ds crowd didn't interest me at all. My roots are in the gospel truths. I talk to God and he to me often. I'm not going away from the church. I'm too excited to watch prophecy unfold.

I realize that as the scriptures and a few of the prophets have said there will be vacant seats of power in the Church. Curruption. Bad fruit that needs pruned. A cleansing. But I will let the lord decide who that is not me. I just want to make sure I'm on his side: and make my way to Zion.

Knowing that curruption is there helps me to know I need to be careful with my own salvation. Keeps me on my toes being vigilant vs blind and comfortable complacent.

[creator]

[Hugh Jass]

How dare you compare that video with the LD$ Church! They are nothing like us.

Them:
Always submit to the Church Administration
For they were placed by Lord God to lead His nation
If we obey then we will receive salvation
Sing along with me

Us:
We should always follow the counsel of the prophet.
When our Church leaders give us counsel, it is as if the Savior were giving us counsel himself.
(https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-prie ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church
and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.
(https://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fou ... t?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Totally different things. LD$ Profits are sent to lead us to salvation and exaltation, and it is wrong to compare us to the false church depicted in the video.

[Mark]

How dare you compare that video with the LD$ Church! They are nothing like us.

Them:
Always submit to the Church Administration
For they were placed by Lord God to lead His nation
If we obey then we will receive salvation
Sing along with me

Us:
We should always follow the counsel of the prophet.
When our Church leaders give us counsel, it is as if the Savior were giving us counsel himself.
(https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-prie ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church
and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.
(https://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fou ... t?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Totally different things. LD$ Profits are sent to lead us to salvation and exaltation, and making it is wrong to compare us to the false church depicted in the video.

Jackal detection alert. :-s

http://youtu.be/OWwOJlOI1nU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;