Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

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EmmaLee
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by EmmaLee »

Ezra wrote:That's why I believe more women will be in the celestial kingdom. They are generally more celestial in their life's here on earth then men.
You must know entirely different sorts of women than I know. Thinking of the LDS people I personally know best in life, I would definitely say there are more 'celestial kingdom' quality men than women in the group. And I'm a woman, so it pains me to say it about fellow members of my sex, but I sincerely feel this way. Lots of women are great at faking 'celestial' type qualities though.

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Melissa
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Melissa »

Double post
Last edited by Melissa on October 2nd, 2015, 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Melissa »

EmmaLee wrote:
Ezra wrote:That's why I believe more women will be in the celestial kingdom. They are generally more celestial in their life's here on earth then men.
You must know entirely different sorts of women than I know. Thinking of the LDS people I personally know best in life, I would definitely say there are more 'celestial kingdom' quality men than women in the group. And I'm a woman, so it pains me to say it about fellow members of my sex, but I sincerely feel this way. Lots of women are great at faking 'celestial' type qualities though.
I agree, its incredibly frustrating to see the constant fake niceness at church. I believe they have a good heart and want to make good on the nice things and offers but life happens.

A man who decides what really matters and controls his physical is a really awesome man and the same goes for women.

We really are not all that different.
I also think is pretty naive to believe women are inately better than men. Its true only if you judge based on feminine divine nature. We each have divine natures and maybe men just dont see theirs quite as well because we dont really appreciate men anymore.

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by freedomforall »

BrianM wrote:I just wanted to make some clarifications regarding the rules of this forum. It is a violation of the rules to promote ideas that are anti-Mormon and not inline with the doctrine and scriptures of the LDS Church. This more recently includes some discussions on polygamy / plural marriage.

"Latter-day Saints believe that the marriage of one man and one woman is the Lord’s standing law of marriage. In biblical times, the Lord commanded some to practice plural marriage—the marriage of one man and more than one woman. By revelation, the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to institute the practice of plural marriage among Church members in the early 1840s. For more than half a century, plural marriage was practiced by some Latter-day Saints under the direction of the Church President."
Source: Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The LDS Church accepts D&C section 132 as a revelation from the Lord to the prophet Joseph Smith. That revelation includes instructions on plural marriage. Nearly half of the presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were polygamists. While the LDS Church does not currently allow the practice of plural marriage, it is still a part of the doctrine/scriptures and a big part of our history. Also, see Official Declaration 1

Official LDS Church articles on plural marriage:

Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage
Some people haven't caught on yet. :ymsigh:

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by freedomforall »

Some folks are still pushing the Polygamy envelop.

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by nvr »

BrianM wrote:I just wanted to make some clarifications regarding the rules of this forum. It is a violation of the rules to promote ideas that are anti-Mormon and not inline with the doctrine and scriptures of the LDS Church. This more recently includes some discussions on polygamy / plural marriage.

"Latter-day Saints believe that the marriage of one man and one woman is the Lord’s standing law of marriage. In biblical times, the Lord commanded some to practice plural marriage—the marriage of one man and more than one woman. By revelation, the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to institute the practice of plural marriage among Church members in the early 1840s. For more than half a century, plural marriage was practiced by some Latter-day Saints under the direction of the Church President."
Source: Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The LDS Church accepts D&C section 132 as a revelation from the Lord to the prophet Joseph Smith. That revelation includes instructions on plural marriage. Nearly half of the presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were polygamists. While the LDS Church does not currently allow the practice of plural marriage, it is still a part of the doctrine/scriptures and a big part of our history. Also, see Official Declaration 1

Official LDS Church articles on plural marriage:

Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage
Those might be official LDS articles that Joseph practiced polygamy as published by Church historians, but I don't think it means they are canon. It seems some people must be secretly rooting for this practice to return for their own ambitious reasons, and this may be why things like these articles are not challenged when published. Why don't they talk about Joseph's supposed involvement at Conference ? Is it because it doesn't really stand up to history, as we saw in the Temple lot case?

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by freedomforall »

nvr wrote:
BrianM wrote:I just wanted to make some clarifications regarding the rules of this forum. It is a violation of the rules to promote ideas that are anti-Mormon and not inline with the doctrine and scriptures of the LDS Church. This more recently includes some discussions on polygamy / plural marriage.

"Latter-day Saints believe that the marriage of one man and one woman is the Lord’s standing law of marriage. In biblical times, the Lord commanded some to practice plural marriage—the marriage of one man and more than one woman. By revelation, the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to institute the practice of plural marriage among Church members in the early 1840s. For more than half a century, plural marriage was practiced by some Latter-day Saints under the direction of the Church President."
Source: Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The LDS Church accepts D&C section 132 as a revelation from the Lord to the prophet Joseph Smith. That revelation includes instructions on plural marriage. Nearly half of the presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were polygamists. While the LDS Church does not currently allow the practice of plural marriage, it is still a part of the doctrine/scriptures and a big part of our history. Also, see Official Declaration 1

Official LDS Church articles on plural marriage:

Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage
Those might be official LDS articles that Joseph practiced polygamy as published by Church historians, but I don't think it means they are canon. It seems some people must be secretly rooting for this practice to return for their own ambitious reasons, and this may be why things like these articles are not challenged when published. Why don't they talk about Joseph's supposed involvement at Conference ? Is it because it doesn't really stand up to history, as we saw in the Temple lot case?
Excerpts from Three Addresses by President Wilford Woodruff Regarding the Manifesto


The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. …

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. …

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for … any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. …

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us. (Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. … All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it. (From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

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Alaris
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Alaris »

The back and forth is humorous but the tone in this thread is often not one that will ever facilitate learning or understanding. The questions are simple.

Why did the church engage in polygamy temporarily?

Why does the church still engage in polygamy eternally?

Unless the answers to both of those questions aren't in line with all other revealed truth then why try to synthesize Mormonism without polygamy? Polygamy is an eternal principle. Why? You can find out. Anyone can find out just about anything with a humble, sincere heart and a diligent asking seeking and knocking. The answers and understanding are there and open doors await.

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by freedomforall »

alaris wrote:The back and forth is humorous but the tone in this thread is often not one that will ever facilitate learning or understanding. The questions are simple.

Why did the church engage in polygamy temporarily? The answers are readily available if one searches. Hint:OD1, D&C 132, Jacob 2:30

Why does the church still engage in polygamy eternally? Where in scripture is this claim corroborated? How many wives does Elohim have?

Unless the answers to both of those questions aren't in line with all other revealed truth then why try to synthesize Mormonism without polygamy? Polygamy is an eternal principle. Why? You can find out. Anyone can find out just about anything with a humble, sincere heart and a diligent asking seeking and knocking. The answers and understanding are there and open doors await.
Who cares?

God only commands this practice when he wants an increase of children in the church, but his standard is one woman one man. Least wise, if people read scripture at all, this is as plain as day and night. Why make a big deal out of nothing?

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Alaris
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Alaris »

freedomforall wrote:
alaris wrote:The back and forth is humorous but the tone in this thread is often not one that will ever facilitate learning or understanding. The questions are simple.

Why did the church engage in polygamy temporarily? The answers are readily available if one searches. Hint:OD1, D&C 132, Jacob 2:30

Why does the church still engage in polygamy eternally? Where in scripture is this claim corroborated? How many wives does Elohim have?

Unless the answers to both of those questions aren't in line with all other revealed truth then why try to synthesize Mormonism without polygamy? Polygamy is an eternal principle. Why? You can find out. Anyone can find out just about anything with a humble, sincere heart and a diligent asking seeking and knocking. The answers and understanding are there and open doors await.
Who cares?

God only commands this practice when he wants an increase of children in the church, but his standard is one woman one man. Least wise, if people read scripture at all, this is as plain as day and night. Why make a big deal out of nothing?
Because it isn't nothing. It is an eternal principle for a reason. The mere fact you mentioned he periodically commands it is what so many find hard to swallow. It is commanded temporally periodically for a reason.

If God were to periodically command it tomorrow how many would leave the church because they failed to seek answers to those questions with a humble heart? How tragic!

Ffa - God wants us to learn all truth... In fact we must learn all truth for no man or woman can be saved any faster than they gain knowledge. There are too many Mormons who shrug their shoulders and say "well it'll be interesting to find out some day." This is the wrong attitude because it assumes two things--one that your current understanding and knowledge is limited to your current understanding of the scriptures. Two - - that you can't learn past where you are without dying first and having the veil swept away. I won't be surprised if when you die you are handed the standard works and told "good luck!"

How much more advantage will one have in the next life if they stop making excuses as to why they can't gain additional knowledge and instead apply the principle from Nephi:
2 Nephi 28:30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
You can literally see this happen with members who stop asking and stop seeking and stop knocking.

You can literally watch the testimonies of members fade when they get hung up on polygamy and gay policies. Why? Because they seek and keep their own counsel and the counsel of other men and women rather than seeking God's.

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by AI2.0 »

If God were to periodically command it tomorrow how many would leave the church because they failed to seek answers to those questions with a humble heart? How tragic!
Now that Same-sex marriage is legal, Polygamy will very likely be legalized next. And when it is, I expect there will be some members who will leave the church because it still won't allow for the practice. That will be a sad thing too. How many members will insist they know what is right for the church and refuse to trust their leaders? How many will follow their own paths and believe they are in the right to do so?

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by AI2.0 »

nvr wrote:
BrianM wrote:I just wanted to make some clarifications regarding the rules of this forum. It is a violation of the rules to promote ideas that are anti-Mormon and not inline with the doctrine and scriptures of the LDS Church. This more recently includes some discussions on polygamy / plural marriage.

"Latter-day Saints believe that the marriage of one man and one woman is the Lord’s standing law of marriage. In biblical times, the Lord commanded some to practice plural marriage—the marriage of one man and more than one woman. By revelation, the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to institute the practice of plural marriage among Church members in the early 1840s. For more than half a century, plural marriage was practiced by some Latter-day Saints under the direction of the Church President."
Source: Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The LDS Church accepts D&C section 132 as a revelation from the Lord to the prophet Joseph Smith. That revelation includes instructions on plural marriage. Nearly half of the presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were polygamists. While the LDS Church does not currently allow the practice of plural marriage, it is still a part of the doctrine/scriptures and a big part of our history. Also, see Official Declaration 1

Official LDS Church articles on plural marriage:

Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage
Those might be official LDS articles that Joseph practiced polygamy as published by Church historians, but I don't think it means they are canon. It seems some people must be secretly rooting for this practice to return for their own ambitious reasons, and this may be why things like these articles are not challenged when published. Why don't they talk about Joseph's supposed involvement at Conference ? Is it because it doesn't really stand up to history, as we saw in the Temple lot case?
General authorities are not given assigned topics, they choose topics they are inspired to speak on. Therefore, we can assume the Lord doesn't want them to talk about it, because when he does, he'll inspire one of them to make this his/her topic. Maybe this April conference..

And please explain what you mean by 'Is it because it doesn't really stand up to history, as we saw in the Temple lot case?'

In regards to the Temple lot case, what are you implying?

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by freedomforall »

AI2.0 wrote:
If God were to periodically command it tomorrow how many would leave the church because they failed to seek answers to those questions with a humble heart? How tragic!
Now that Same-sex marriage is legal, Polygamy will very likely be legalized next. And when it is, I expect there will be some members who will leave the church because it still won't allow for the practice. That will be a sad thing too. How many members will insist they know what is right for the church and refuse to trust their leaders? How many will follow their own paths and believe they are in the right to do so?
You have written wisely the unsound course of the rebellious, those who try to out think God and go their own way. Please let me interject here.
I don't think it wise to assume polygamy will be instituted and become the norm. I also don't think it wise to put words into scripture that are not there and then assume it comes from the Spirit.

This passage has been posted several times and is quite profound, yet some people seem to make up their own mind, possibly due to lingering lust and not for righteousness.

Doctrine and Covenants 56:4
4 Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord.


God says IF he were to command an increase of seed being brought forth, he will command the practice of polygamy....and not before. Jacob 2:30

God also says in the D&C that, apparently, polygamy involves men choosing virgins to wife. D&C 132

So my question is...why are members of the church coming out with claims that polygamy is an eternal principle and is necessary in order dwell with God? Someone post the scripture that reveals this as truth.

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AI2.0
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by AI2.0 »

freedomforall wrote:
AI2.0 wrote:
If God were to periodically command it tomorrow how many would leave the church because they failed to seek answers to those questions with a humble heart? How tragic!
Now that Same-sex marriage is legal, Polygamy will very likely be legalized next. And when it is, I expect there will be some members who will leave the church because it still won't allow for the practice. That will be a sad thing too. How many members will insist they know what is right for the church and refuse to trust their leaders? How many will follow their own paths and believe they are in the right to do so?
You have written wisely the unsound course of the rebellious, those who try to out think God and go their own way. Please let me interject here.
I don't think it wise to assume polygamy will be instituted and become the norm. I also don't think it wise to put words into scripture that are not there and then assume it comes from the Spirit.

This passage has been posted several times and is quite profound, yet some people seem to make up their own mind, possibly due to lingering lust and not for righteousness.

Doctrine and Covenants 56:4
4 Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord.


God says IF he were to command an increase of seed being brought forth, he will command the practice of polygamy....and not before. Jacob 2:30

God also says in the D&C that, apparently, polygamy involves men choosing virgins to wife. D&C 132

So my question is...why are members of the church coming out with claims that polygamy is an eternal principle and is necessary in order dwell with God? Someone post the scripture that reveals this as truth.
Good question. But, I think the answer lies in the fact that most members don't say this. Most members do not believe it is necessary to practice polygamy to dwell with god--the church certainly doesn't teach that. The church teaches that Baptism is the entrance to the Celestial Kingdom, where God dwells. We don't even have to be married to dwell with god. But, if we want to have increase and become like God--we must be sealed in the temple--and that means one man and one woman, sealed together for time and all eternity. There is no scripture which says that a man must marry more than one woman in order to dwell with God or become like him. This is a heresy promoted by polygamists who refused to give up the practice after the Manifesto. They refused to recognize that God could revoke or command this practice and that the Prophet held the sealing power and the right to speak for God to the church. There are still people today who refuse to recognize this fact. They prove why it is important to listen and heed the counsel of the living prophet.

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Alaris »

Polygamy is an eternal principle because a Man may be sealed to more than one Woman. That doesn't necessarily mean it's necessary but it certainly means it is eternal for what is sealed on earth is sealed in heaven.
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Now in my opinion there is no way polygamy will be legalized next simply because it is an eternal principle whereas Gays marriage is the opposite. Even though conservative commentators like to cite polygamy as the next logical step as a lazy argument against gay marriage, there is no force behind it like gay marriage has had. The devil utilized the large and spacious perceptions of polygamy to fight against our church and succeeded all the way up to the white house on that front. He used the same tools to get gay marriage legalized.

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by nvr »

AI2.0 wrote:
nvr wrote:
BrianM wrote:I just wanted to make some clarifications regarding the rules of this forum. It is a violation of the rules to promote ideas that are anti-Mormon and not inline with the doctrine and scriptures of the LDS Church. This more recently includes some discussions on polygamy / plural marriage.

"Latter-day Saints believe that the marriage of one man and one woman is the Lord’s standing law of marriage. In biblical times, the Lord commanded some to practice plural marriage—the marriage of one man and more than one woman. By revelation, the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to institute the practice of plural marriage among Church members in the early 1840s. For more than half a century, plural marriage was practiced by some Latter-day Saints under the direction of the Church President."
Source: Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The LDS Church accepts D&C section 132 as a revelation from the Lord to the prophet Joseph Smith. That revelation includes instructions on plural marriage. Nearly half of the presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were polygamists. While the LDS Church does not currently allow the practice of plural marriage, it is still a part of the doctrine/scriptures and a big part of our history. Also, see Official Declaration 1

Official LDS Church articles on plural marriage:

Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage
Those might be official LDS articles that Joseph practiced polygamy as published by Church historians, but I don't think it means they are canon. It seems some people must be secretly rooting for this practice to return for their own ambitious reasons, and this may be why things like these articles are not challenged when published. Why don't they talk about Joseph's supposed involvement at Conference ? Is it because it doesn't really stand up to history, as we saw in the Temple lot case?
General authorities are not given assigned topics, they choose topics they are inspired to speak on. Therefore, we can assume the Lord doesn't want them to talk about it, because when he does, he'll inspire one of them to make this his/her topic. Maybe this April conference..

And please explain what you mean by 'Is it because it doesn't really stand up to history, as we saw in the Temple lot case?'

In regards to the Temple lot case, what are you implying?
Basically, the Judge in the case determined that Joseph had not been teaching or practicing polygamy after going through all evidence from both sides. The Church (called the Utah Church) had presented witnesses that Joseph had been teaching and practicing polygamy to establish that they were the continuation of the original Church.
" It is charged by the Respondents, as an echo of the Utah Church, that Joseph Smith, 'the Martyr,' secretly taught and practiced polygamy; and the Utah contingent furnishes the evidence, and two of the women, to prove this fact. It perhaps would be uncharitable to say of these women that they have borne false testimony as to their connection with Joseph Smith; but, in view of all the evidence and circumstances surrounding the alleged intercourse, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that at most they were but sports in 'nest hiding.' In view of the contention of the Salt Lake party, that polygamy obtained at Nauvoo as early as 1841, it must be a little embarrassing to President Woodruff of that organization when he is confronted, as he was in the evidence in this case, with a published card in the church organ at Nauvoo in October, 1843, certifying that he knew of no other rule or system of marriage than the one published in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and that the 'secret wife system,' charged against the church, was a creature of invention by one Doctor Bennett, and that they knew of no such society. That certificate was signed by the leading members of the church, including John Taylor the former President of the Utah Church. And a similar certificate was published by the Ladies' Relief Society of the same place, signed by Emma Smith, wife of Joseph Smith, and Phoebe Woodruff, wife of the present President Woodruff. No such marriage ever occurred under the rules of the church, and no offspring came from the imputed illicit intercourse, although Joseph Smith was in the full vigor of young manhood, and his wife, Emma, was giving birth to healthy children in regular order, and was enciente at the time of Joseph's death" (http://www.archive.org/stream/decisiono ... h#page/42/).

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by freedomforall »

alaris wrote:Polygamy is an eternal principle because a Man may be sealed to more than one Woman. That doesn't necessarily mean it's necessary but it certainly means it is eternal for what is sealed on earth is sealed in heaven.
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Now in my opinion there is no way polygamy will be legalized next simply because it is an eternal principle whereas Gays marriage is the opposite. Even though conservative commentators like to cite polygamy as the next logical step as a lazy argument against gay marriage, there is no force behind it like gay marriage has had. The devil utilized the large and spacious perceptions of polygamy to fight against our church and succeeded all the way up to the white house on that front. He used the same tools to get gay marriage legalized.
Where is your unequivocal proof? Just because some people may belief this line of thinking don't mean squat. It is a Fundamentalist point of view. Please provide scriptural proof of such claims.

Whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Polygamy was loosed on earth just like this scripture indicates, through the Manifesto written by WW. Read OD1

Even though gay marriage has been legalized by godless men, there is no way a man can go to the temple and have eight other men sealed to him. God would override that sealing and condemn the participants.

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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Alaris »

Can I delete posts? My post timed out so I hit refresh which apparently was a mistake.
Last edited by Alaris on February 23rd, 2017, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alaris
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Alaris »

freedomforall wrote:
alaris wrote:Polygamy is an eternal principle because a Man may be sealed to more than one Woman. That doesn't necessarily mean it's necessary but it certainly means it is eternal for what is sealed on earth is sealed in heaven.
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Now in my opinion there is no way polygamy will be legalized next simply because it is an eternal principle whereas Gays marriage is the opposite. Even though conservative commentators like to cite polygamy as the next logical step as a lazy argument against gay marriage, there is no force behind it like gay marriage has had. The devil utilized the large and spacious perceptions of polygamy to fight against our church and succeeded all the way up to the white house on that front. He used the same tools to get gay marriage legalized.
Where is your unequivocal proof? Just because some people may belief this line of thinking don't mean squat. It is a Fundamentalist point of view. Please provide scriptural proof of such claims.

Whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Polygamy was loosed on earth just like this scripture indicates, through the Manifesto written by WW. Read OD1

Even though gay marriage has been legalized by godless men, there is no way a man can go to the temple and have eight other men sealed to him. God would override that sealing and condemn the participants.
Men are sealed to more than one woman all the time. Women are not. Ever. The scripture I posted was the simplest example of the sealing power. I know you know the scriptures well enough that there are plenty more to choose from and many in the D&C that specifically refer to how the sealing power effectuates marriages beyond death. The logic train is about as simple as I can make it FFA. Again I'm worried about you. You contest so many posts so often that go anywhere beyond a primary understanding of the scriptures....your understanding . You don't do it politely either.

Where is my "Unequivocable proof?" That is no where near the Lord's way and sounds dangerously close to sign seeking.

The understanding here is about as plain can be. IF you believe the church is true and is lead by a living prophet as I do then why is eternal polygamy still being practiced?
Wouldn't the Lord make it impossible for a man to be sealed to more than one woman just like it is impossible for women to be sealed to more than one man?

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shadow
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by shadow »

freedomforall wrote:
Whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Polygamy was loosed on earth just like this scripture indicates, through the Manifesto written by WW. Read OD1
Polygamy wasn't "loosed" in the way you apply it. Read OD1 again. There is nothing about cancelling plural sealings.

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shadow
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

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alaris wrote:
Men are sealed to more than one woman all the time. Women are not. Ever.
Well, that's somewhat false. Some women do get sealed to multiple men after their deaths.

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

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I've said it before and I'll say it again... if the roles in polygamy were reversed, we wouldn't even be having this debate/discussion. =))

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Alaris
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Alaris »

shadow wrote:
alaris wrote:
Men are sealed to more than one woman all the time. Women are not. Ever.
Well, that's somewhat false. Some women do get sealed to multiple men after their deaths.
I've never heard of that happening. From what I understand a woman has to get a sealing broken before she can be sealed to another man.

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Alaris
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Alaris »

Col. Flagg wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again... if the roles in polygamy were reversed, we wouldn't even be having this debate/discussion. =))
Yes we would. But we would certainly have different perspectives. My wife has asked me this question--how would I feel if roles were reversed and polygamy was an eternal principle for women to be married to multiple spouses. In this case I would certainly ask the exact same questions I first posed in this thread. Why was polygamy first instituted in our church temporally? Why was it instituted eternally and still being effectuated eternally? There are answers to the questions that require the same method of learning as any other new truth. Humility - asking - seeking - pondering - praying, etc. The enemies to learning are pride and false traditions. Men and Women being exactly equal in everything is a false precept of men.

The answer is not PC and therein lies the problem. The temple is clear about the order of a household. The woman is to listen to the husband as he listens to God. Do mormons practice this? This is certainly a challenge for my wife but I know she believes it. It is a challenge because this is yet another way the devil assaults the family and the true order of heavenly families.

My point isn't that women are inferior and that's why polygamy exists. My point is that it is an eternal principle and anyone can find out why. I can't understand this for you but I can show you how to find out for yourself. Humility. Ask. Seek. Ponder. Pray. Open Heart. False traditions bad. Large and Spacious (what the devil makes socially acceptable and popular) also bad.

Lizzy60
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Re: Polygamy Discussions and the LDSFF Rules

Post by Lizzy60 »

alaris wrote:
shadow wrote:
alaris wrote:
Men are sealed to more than one woman all the time. Women are not. Ever.
Well, that's somewhat false. Some women do get sealed to multiple men after their deaths.
I've never heard of that happening. From what I understand a woman has to get a sealing broken before she can be sealed to another man.
I have heard of DECEASED women being sealed to more than one man, when she had two or more husbands (not concurrently) in her mortal life. The rationale is that since there is no way to know who she would have chosen to be sealed to, which would have been her decision if she had been through the temple in her mortality, so she is sealed to all those she had married, and we are told that the choice, if the participants are worthy, will be made in the hereafter.

The above example happened to a very good temple friend of mine, in the case of her mother, and she was so confused about it all that we got a thorough explanation on it from the temple president.

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