You Say You Want Zion...

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
Locked
log
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2077
Location: The Fireplace of Affliction

You Say You Want Zion...

Post by log »

This applies to whom it applies - if that's you, then thou art the man.

Whenever you see a profanity filter substitute word here, go ahead and assume I used the original - because I did.

You say you want Zion.

Noah got drunk. Jesus, too, drank wine.

Ezekiel cooked his bread over fire using @#!!$#!% as fuel. He was originally told to use human $#!% but asked the Lord for a pass.
Ezekiel 4
9 “Take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them in a storage jar and use them to make bread for yourself. You are to eat it during the 390 days you lie on your side. 10 Weigh out twenty shekelsfn of food to eat each day and eat it at set times. 11 Also measure out a sixth of a hinfn of water and drink it at set times. 12 Eat the food as you would a loaf of barley bread; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel.” 13 The LORD said, “In this way the people of Israel will eat defiled food among the nations where I will drive them.”
14 Then I said, “Not so, Sovereign LORD! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead or torn by wild animals. No impure meat has ever entered my mouth.”
15 “Very well,” he said, “I will let you bake your bread over cow dung instead of human excrement.”
"Exrement." That's the translator's way of avoiding saying "$#!%." The Lord is not a pansy.
Ezekiel 16
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable practices 3 and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. 4 On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. 5 No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised.
6 “ ‘Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!”fn 7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked.
8 “ ‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became mine.
9 “ ‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10 I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put sandals of fine leather on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. 11 I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, 12 and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. 14 And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD.
15 “ ‘But you trusted in your beauty and used your fame to become a prostitute. You lavished your favors on anyone who passed by and your beauty became his. 16 You took some of your garments to make gaudy high places, where you carried on your prostitution. You went to him, and he possessed your beauty.fn 17 You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution with them. 18 And you took your embroidered clothes to put on them, and you offered my oil and incense before them. 19 Also the food I provided for you—the flour, olive oil and honey I gave you to eat—you offered as fragrant incense before them. That is what happened, declares the Sovereign LORD.
20 “ ‘And you took your sons and daughters whom you bore to me and sacrificed them as food to the idols. Was your prostitution not enough? 21 You slaughtered my children and sacrificed them to the idols. 22 In all your detestable practices and your prostitution you did not remember the days of your youth, when you were naked and bare, kicking about in your blood.
23 “ ‘Woe! Woe to you, declares the Sovereign LORD. In addition to all your other wickedness, 24 you built a mound for yourself and made a lofty shrine in every public square. 25 At every street corner you built your lofty shrines and degraded your beauty, spreading your legs with increasing promiscuity to anyone who passed by. 26 You engaged in prostitution with the Egyptians, your neighbors with large genitals, and aroused my anger with your increasing promiscuity. 27 So I stretched out my hand against you and reduced your territory; I gave you over to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were shocked by your lewd conduct. 28 You engaged in prostitution with the Assyrians too, because you were insatiable; and even after that, you still were not satisfied. 29 Then you increased your promiscuity to include Babylonia,fn a land of merchants, but even with this you were not satisfied.
This is not a fluke.
Ezekiel 23
11 “Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13 I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way.
14 “But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeansfn portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea.fn 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.fn
Do I need to point out that even this is euphemistic language? I know damn well what he's saying, and so do you. They had huge dicks like donkeys and shot sperm like horses.

If cursing, vulgarity, or profanity is your pet peeve, you are not going to like Zion much - the Lord and holy prophets live there. They weren't shy about using epithets, either. The Lord frequently called people fools, and both Jesus and John, the Baptist, referred to the prim, proper, decent Pharisaical class as "sons of vipers," roughly the equivalent of sons of &!@$#%$.

Oh, but what about propriety? What about "being nice?" What about "being kind?" What about "fitting in?" Surely there's going to be some heavenly moderators enforcing decorum?

No, probably not, actually. If nudity is a problem for you, you will not care for the presence of a prophet.
Isaiah 20
3 Then the LORD said, “Just as my servant Isaiah has gone stripped and barefoot for three years, as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush,fn 4 so the king of Assyria will lead away stripped and barefoot the Egyptian captives and Cushite exiles, young and old, with buttocks bared—to Egypt’s shame. 5 Those who trusted in Cush and boasted in Egypt will be dismayed and put to shame. 6 In that day the people who live on this coast will say, ‘See what has happened to those we relied on, those we fled to for help and deliverance from the king of Assyria! How then can we escape?’ ”
And what about nice, serene conversation? Surely with all the drunken, nude, vulgar and profane behavior, surely there will at least be serenity, right?

Probably not, actually.
Moses 6
37 And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men were offended because of him.

38 And they came forth to hear him, upon the high places, saying unto the tent-keepers: Tarry ye here and keep the tents, while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth, and there is a strange thing in the land; a wild man hath come among us.
So public nudity, profanity, rough language, blatant and explicit sexual references, drinking, and who knows what else may well be found in Zion. The question is, with all your self-righteous prim propriety, will you be found in Zion? Or are you yet so intolerant you cannot even endure the verbal expression of these things?
The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves "in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth," and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men. - Joseph Smith
I think you really want someone to preach to you. I think you want religion, a matter of outward forms and social propriety, a matter of the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture, something nice and proper, something that doesn't cause waves. I think you want someone to justify you in your pride, your sins, and your intolerance.

I think you want a religion of forms rather than discipline. I think you want to fly the flag of Christ without doing his works. I think you contend and dispute so you can avoid doing those things the Lord asked. I think you're not so interested in being the Lord's disciples as you are in being seen to be on the right "team," or believing the right "doctrines," or enforcing the right "rules."

You say you want Zion. You say you want prophets who prophesy, and sigh after the gifts from heaven not being in evidence among the Brethren. From what I've seen, I don't think you'd like what you'd get; I think you'd cast out them whom you are sent, stone them, and slay them, all in the name of propriety, kindness, and common decency.

You can't even tolerate me. What will you do when you get what you say you want?

inquirringmind
captain of 100
Posts: 899

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by inquirringmind »

Wouldn't thinking all these things about all these unnamed people here ("thinking," as in not knowing, not having any personal revelation, not being told) be "judging" them?
Last edited by inquirringmind on April 16th, 2015, 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dewajack
captain of 100
Posts: 650

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by dewajack »

Wait for it, wait for it . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eobuu-IexvI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lizzy60
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 8509

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by Lizzy60 »

log wrote:This applies to whom it applies - if that's you, then thou art the man.

Whenever you see a profanity filter substitute word here, go ahead and assume I used the original - because I did.

You say you want Zion.

Noah got drunk. Jesus, too, drank wine.

Ezekiel cooked his bread over fire using bananas as fuel. He was originally told to use human poo poo but asked the Lord for a pass.
Ezekiel 4
9 “Take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them in a storage jar and use them to make bread for yourself. You are to eat it during the 390 days you lie on your side. 10 Weigh out twenty shekelsfn of food to eat each day and eat it at set times. 11 Also measure out a sixth of a hinfn of water and drink it at set times. 12 Eat the food as you would a loaf of barley bread; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel.” 13 The LORD said, “In this way the people of Israel will eat defiled food among the nations where I will drive them.”
14 Then I said, “Not so, Sovereign LORD! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead or torn by wild animals. No impure meat has ever entered my mouth.”
15 “Very well,” he said, “I will let you bake your bread over cow dung instead of human excrement.”
"Exrement." That's the translator's way of avoiding saying "poo poo." The Lord is not a pansy.
Ezekiel 16
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable practices 3 and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. 4 On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. 5 No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised.
6 “ ‘Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!”fn 7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked.
8 “ ‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became mine.
9 “ ‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10 I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put sandals of fine leather on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. 11 I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, 12 and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. 14 And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD.
15 “ ‘But you trusted in your beauty and used your fame to become a prostitute. You lavished your favors on anyone who passed by and your beauty became his. 16 You took some of your garments to make gaudy high places, where you carried on your prostitution. You went to him, and he possessed your beauty.fn 17 You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution with them. 18 And you took your embroidered clothes to put on them, and you offered my oil and incense before them. 19 Also the food I provided for you—the flour, olive oil and honey I gave you to eat—you offered as fragrant incense before them. That is what happened, declares the Sovereign LORD.
20 “ ‘And you took your sons and daughters whom you bore to me and sacrificed them as food to the idols. Was your prostitution not enough? 21 You slaughtered my children and sacrificed them to the idols. 22 In all your detestable practices and your prostitution you did not remember the days of your youth, when you were naked and bare, kicking about in your blood.
23 “ ‘Woe! Woe to you, declares the Sovereign LORD. In addition to all your other wickedness, 24 you built a mound for yourself and made a lofty shrine in every public square. 25 At every street corner you built your lofty shrines and degraded your beauty, spreading your legs with increasing promiscuity to anyone who passed by. 26 You engaged in prostitution with the Egyptians, your neighbors with large genitals, and aroused my anger with your increasing promiscuity. 27 So I stretched out my hand against you and reduced your territory; I gave you over to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were shocked by your lewd conduct. 28 You engaged in prostitution with the Assyrians too, because you were insatiable; and even after that, you still were not satisfied. 29 Then you increased your promiscuity to include Babylonia,fn a land of merchants, but even with this you were not satisfied.
This is not a fluke.
Ezekiel 23
11 “Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13 I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way.
14 “But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeansfn portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea.fn 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.fn
Do I need to point out that even this is euphemistic language? I know damn well what he's saying, and so do you. They had huge dicks like donkeys and shot sperm like horses.

If cursing, vulgarity, or profanity is your pet peeve, you are not going to like Zion much - the Lord and holy prophets live there. They weren't shy about using epithets, either. The Lord frequently called people fools, and both Jesus and John, the Baptist, referred to the prim, proper, decent Pharisaical class as "sons of vipers," roughly the equivalent of sons of witches.

Oh, but what about propriety? What about "being nice?" What about "being kind?" What about "fitting in?" Surely there's going to be some heavenly moderators enforcing decorum?

No, probably not, actually. If nudity is a problem for you, you will not care for the presence of a prophet.
Isaiah 20
3 Then the LORD said, “Just as my servant Isaiah has gone stripped and barefoot for three years, as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush,fn 4 so the king of Assyria will lead away stripped and barefoot the Egyptian captives and Cushite exiles, young and old, with buttocks bared—to Egypt’s shame. 5 Those who trusted in Cush and boasted in Egypt will be dismayed and put to shame. 6 In that day the people who live on this coast will say, ‘See what has happened to those we relied on, those we fled to for help and deliverance from the king of Assyria! How then can we escape?’ ”
And what about nice, serene conversation? Surely with all the drunken, nude, vulgar and profane behavior, surely there will at least be serenity, right?

Probably not, actually.
Moses 6
37 And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men were offended because of him.

38 And they came forth to hear him, upon the high places, saying unto the tent-keepers: Tarry ye here and keep the tents, while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth, and there is a strange thing in the land; a wild man hath come among us.
So public nudity, profanity, rough language, blatant and explicit sexual references, drinking, and who knows what else may well be found in Zion. The question is, with all your self-righteous prim propriety, will you be found in Zion? Or are you yet so intolerant you cannot even endure the verbal expression of these things?
The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves "in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth," and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men. - Joseph Smith
I think you really want someone to preach to you. I think you want religion, a matter of outward forms and social propriety, a matter of the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture, something nice and proper, something that doesn't cause waves. I think you want someone to justify you in your pride, your sins, and your intolerance.

I think you want a religion of forms rather than discipline. I think you want to fly the flag of Christ without doing his works. I think you contend and dispute so you can avoid doing those things the Lord asked. I think you're not so interested in being the Lord's disciples as you are in being seen to be on the right "team," or believing the right "doctrines," or enforcing the right "rules."

You say you want Zion. You say you want prophets who prophesy, and sigh after the gifts from heaven not being in evidence among the Brethren. From what I've seen, I don't think you'd like what you'd get; I think you'd cast out them whom you are sent, stone them, and slay them, all in the name of propriety, kindness, and common decency.

You can't even tolerate me. What will you do when you get what you say you want?
I believe we will see the fulfillment of good being called evil, and evil, good, in a different way than most others believe.
Yes, those who think they are righteous will stone the prophets sent to them, while the outcasts become the believers.

inquirringmind
captain of 100
Posts: 899

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by inquirringmind »

Again, wouldn't thinking all these things about all these unnamed people here ("thinking," as in not knowing, not having any personal revelation, not being told) be "judging" them?

And aren't we told not to do that?

And isn't not doing that (even when there's very good reason to believe some group of people, say ISIS, is evil) part of the message you've been preaching?

I'm not attacking you here Log.

These particular questions are not rhetorical.

You're free to answer them and retract or clarify anything you've previously said.

For example, if you've had cause to reconsider whether there's more reason to pray for the Christians of Baghdad than to ask God to bless Isis, or whether ISIS truly is evil, you're free to say so.

I invite you to.

I hope you do, and I know you've said you've reconsidered what you use to say about trusting no one but God, so I suspect you can now agree that there may be some reason to trust what we've seen and been told about ISIS on the American and British news Media (instead of just ignoring it as likely propaganda)?

You do remember saying
Let me explain why I don’t find you persuasive on this point, at least in part: we’re being asked to take sides, in prayer at least, in what amounts to a civil war.

Why shouldn’t I have charity, as you have put it, on ISIS against Iraq? Why shouldn’t I pray, “God, please bless ISIS?”
Don't you?

And this?
We have to take sides, according to the word spoken by Tim, because ISIS is evil. In this...I feel pretty confident in thinking Tim is operating on reports and rumors of what’s occurring in Iraq, since I’ve seen Tim’s workplace and how he spends his time – typically not in Iraq. Now, that’s all well and good except there are multiple sides to anything, and in a world filled with propaganda, reports, rumors, and lies, nothing seems trustworthy.
If you feel free to judge people here now (without violating the golden rule), am I equally free to say that ISIS is evil (without violating the golden rule)?

What annoys (and provokes) me about you Log is that I often get the feeling that you hide behind the golden rule, use it to your advantage, and pretend to feel victimized whenever you want to avoid answering honest, sincere, perfectly valid questions.

If you're not accusing fellow forum members, and (I assume) moderators of anything when you say you "think" all these bad things about them, how was I making any accusation against you when I said what I thought here?
I think you're being somewhat disingenuous when you say you can't understand what mes5464 meant to say
And why did that give you an excuse to do unto me what I would not do unto you, what I would not have you do unto me, and what I've specifically asked you not to do unto me?
As you have started accusing me, I will, as the Savior did in similar circumstances, cease from speaking to you.
What was the accusation again?

And how is it you can give me this silent treatment when I've specifically asked you not to do that (without violating your own interpretation of the golden rule)?
Last edited by inquirringmind on April 16th, 2015, 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
clarkkent14
LBFOJ
Posts: 1973
Location: Kanab, UT
Contact:

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by clarkkent14 »

log wrote:This applies to whom it applies - if that's you, then thou art the man.

Whenever you see a profanity filter substitute word here, go ahead and assume I used the original - because I did.

You say you want Zion.

Noah got drunk. Jesus, too, drank wine.

Ezekiel cooked his bread over fire using bananas as fuel. He was originally told to use human poo poo but asked the Lord for a pass.
Ezekiel 4
9 “Take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them in a storage jar and use them to make bread for yourself. You are to eat it during the 390 days you lie on your side. 10 Weigh out twenty shekelsfn of food to eat each day and eat it at set times. 11 Also measure out a sixth of a hinfn of water and drink it at set times. 12 Eat the food as you would a loaf of barley bread; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel.” 13 The LORD said, “In this way the people of Israel will eat defiled food among the nations where I will drive them.”
14 Then I said, “Not so, Sovereign LORD! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead or torn by wild animals. No impure meat has ever entered my mouth.”
15 “Very well,” he said, “I will let you bake your bread over cow dung instead of human excrement.”
"Exrement." That's the translator's way of avoiding saying "poo poo." The Lord is not a pansy.
Ezekiel 16
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable practices 3 and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. 4 On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. 5 No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised.
6 “ ‘Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!”fn 7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked.
8 “ ‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became mine.
9 “ ‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10 I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put sandals of fine leather on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. 11 I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, 12 and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. 14 And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD.
15 “ ‘But you trusted in your beauty and used your fame to become a prostitute. You lavished your favors on anyone who passed by and your beauty became his. 16 You took some of your garments to make gaudy high places, where you carried on your prostitution. You went to him, and he possessed your beauty.fn 17 You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution with them. 18 And you took your embroidered clothes to put on them, and you offered my oil and incense before them. 19 Also the food I provided for you—the flour, olive oil and honey I gave you to eat—you offered as fragrant incense before them. That is what happened, declares the Sovereign LORD.
20 “ ‘And you took your sons and daughters whom you bore to me and sacrificed them as food to the idols. Was your prostitution not enough? 21 You slaughtered my children and sacrificed them to the idols. 22 In all your detestable practices and your prostitution you did not remember the days of your youth, when you were naked and bare, kicking about in your blood.
23 “ ‘Woe! Woe to you, declares the Sovereign LORD. In addition to all your other wickedness, 24 you built a mound for yourself and made a lofty shrine in every public square. 25 At every street corner you built your lofty shrines and degraded your beauty, spreading your legs with increasing promiscuity to anyone who passed by. 26 You engaged in prostitution with the Egyptians, your neighbors with large genitals, and aroused my anger with your increasing promiscuity. 27 So I stretched out my hand against you and reduced your territory; I gave you over to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were shocked by your lewd conduct. 28 You engaged in prostitution with the Assyrians too, because you were insatiable; and even after that, you still were not satisfied. 29 Then you increased your promiscuity to include Babylonia,fn a land of merchants, but even with this you were not satisfied.
This is not a fluke.
Ezekiel 23
11 “Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13 I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way.
14 “But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeansfn portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea.fn 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.fn
Do I need to point out that even this is euphemistic language? I know damn well what he's saying, and so do you. They had huge dicks like donkeys and shot sperm like horses.

If cursing, vulgarity, or profanity is your pet peeve, you are not going to like Zion much - the Lord and holy prophets live there. They weren't shy about using epithets, either. The Lord frequently called people fools, and both Jesus and John, the Baptist, referred to the prim, proper, decent Pharisaical class as "sons of vipers," roughly the equivalent of sons of witches.

Oh, but what about propriety? What about "being nice?" What about "being kind?" What about "fitting in?" Surely there's going to be some heavenly moderators enforcing decorum?

No, probably not, actually. If nudity is a problem for you, you will not care for the presence of a prophet.
Isaiah 20
3 Then the LORD said, “Just as my servant Isaiah has gone stripped and barefoot for three years, as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush,fn 4 so the king of Assyria will lead away stripped and barefoot the Egyptian captives and Cushite exiles, young and old, with buttocks bared—to Egypt’s shame. 5 Those who trusted in Cush and boasted in Egypt will be dismayed and put to shame. 6 In that day the people who live on this coast will say, ‘See what has happened to those we relied on, those we fled to for help and deliverance from the king of Assyria! How then can we escape?’ ”
And what about nice, serene conversation? Surely with all the drunken, nude, vulgar and profane behavior, surely there will at least be serenity, right?

Probably not, actually.
Moses 6
37 And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men were offended because of him.

38 And they came forth to hear him, upon the high places, saying unto the tent-keepers: Tarry ye here and keep the tents, while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth, and there is a strange thing in the land; a wild man hath come among us.
So public nudity, profanity, rough language, blatant and explicit sexual references, drinking, and who knows what else may well be found in Zion. The question is, with all your self-righteous prim propriety, will you be found in Zion? Or are you yet so intolerant you cannot even endure the verbal expression of these things?
The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves "in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth," and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men. - Joseph Smith
I think you really want someone to preach to you. I think you want religion, a matter of outward forms and social propriety, a matter of the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture, something nice and proper, something that doesn't cause waves. I think you want someone to justify you in your pride, your sins, and your intolerance.

I think you want a religion of forms rather than discipline. I think you want to fly the flag of Christ without doing his works. I think you contend and dispute so you can avoid doing those things the Lord asked. I think you're not so interested in being the Lord's disciples as you are in being seen to be on the right "team," or believing the right "doctrines," or enforcing the right "rules."

You say you want Zion. You say you want prophets who prophesy, and sigh after the gifts from heaven not being in evidence among the Brethren. From what I've seen, I don't think you'd like what you'd get; I think you'd cast out them whom you are sent, stone them, and slay them, all in the name of propriety, kindness, and common decency.

You can't even tolerate me. What will you do when you get what you say you want?
Amen! Righteousness kicks virtues a$$!!!

hyloglyph
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1043

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by hyloglyph »

Finally log posts a good OP

inquirringmind
captain of 100
Posts: 899

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by inquirringmind »

Noah got drunk. Jesus, too, drank wine...So public nudity, profanity, rough language, blatant and explicit sexual references, drinking, and who knows what else may well be found in Zion.
But Jesus never got drunk, did he?

And what happened to "...the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance"?
(Alma 45:16.)

And "But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth."
(Col. 3:8, Joseph Smith Translation.)

User avatar
lemuel
Operating Thetan
Posts: 993

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by lemuel »

Why not just ignore log, if he bothers you so? Or anyone else that bothers you? It's really easy to do on the Internet. Just keep scrolling when you see a post from someone who offends.

User avatar
Kingdom of ZION
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1939

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Log, you make a correct point about the typical people here in the churches. They love the world, its fashions, traditions, and all manner of false spiritualism. However your feelings that that is how Zion is or will act for those who arrive there is a little misguided. Beings there do not need to run around naked and speaking hard words to each other, calling everyone there to repentance. We shall be seen as we are. We will be of one heart and mind, having a unity of faith seldom experienced here if ever, even by only between two people, verses the millions that will find that perfect harmony there.

Can there be disharmony there? Yes, the war in heaven that was fought there... as it is always fought there.

The real issue is just that... seeing others as they are. Knowing what and who the Elect are. Zion is the gathering of the Elect! Are they perfect? NO! They are not perfect. They commit sins, they do not live perfectly, but they love the Lord with all their hearts and seek to do His will, those things asked of them by the Holy Spirit... forever in everything! They bear the hard paths.

Do they walk like a baby duck behind the Mother duck? No not very good! They look everywhere for the truth and their path does not look straight or even conventional.

Zion will come when the command to Gather the Elect comes... it will not be a church out preaching and looking for converts. It is the 'Gathering of Beings who have come unto the Doctrine of the Estates and Eternal Lives', and a few others who are worthy to come up unto that level of peace. One either is or is not Elect, it has everything to do with this world or creation being a one room school house where were not all in the same grade! Spiritual age, birthright, blessings that follow them, foreordained missions, and callings mark who they are.

Shalom

inquirringmind
captain of 100
Posts: 899

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by inquirringmind »

Do I need to point out that even this is euphemistic language? I know damn well what he's saying, and so do you. They had huge dicks like donkeys and shot sperm like horses.
That may be what's meant, but that's not what's said (either in the English Bible, or in the Hebrew Text.)

The word you would translate "dicks" is basar (and it's the same word used in Ezekiel 16:26), and it means
flesh (from its freshness); by extension, body, person; also (by euphem.) The pudenda of a man -- body, (fat, lean) flesh(-ed), kin, (man-)kind, + nakedness, self, skin
http://biblehub.com/strongs/hebrew/1320.htm

So it wasn't just English translators who used a euphemism here, it was God Himself, and that kinda destroys your whole argument here.
If cursing, vulgarity, or profanity is your pet peeve, you are not going to like Zion much - the Lord and holy prophets live there.
Doesn't it?

I mean, when the Lord inspired Ezekiel to write the second and third passages you quoted, He didn't inspire him to use vulgarity, He inspired him to use a euphemism.

And as for the first passage, the English word "excrement" means
Waste material, especially fecal matter, that is expelled from the body after digestion.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/excrement

That's what the Hebrew word means, and I don't see any reason to assume it was any more vulgar than the English word "excrement," do you?

So again, what about Colossians 3:8?

"But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth."
(Joseph Smith Translation.)

Why do you suppose there will be cursing, vulgarity, or profanity in Zion?

User avatar
marc
Disciple of Jesus Christ
Posts: 10306
Contact:

Re: You Say You Want Zion...

Post by marc »

Log, there is a difference between proper use of terms and street terms (genitals vs. *icks). Such language may have been used in the world, but there is no evidence of their use in Zion (City of Enoch, for example). I am sure the Lord knows the difference. Please refer to the rules when posting again.
- No profanity. No inappropriate sexual content.
Furthermore, I am inclined to suggest that your posts are increasingly baiting and/or trolling by nature.
- No Trolling, flaming, spamming, baiting.
I am locking this thread.

Locked