Jacob 5 Allegory--The Servant

[marc]

I know there are already some pretty good discussions buried on this forum about the allegory, but none dedicated to "the servant." Today as I read through the BoM and read through the allegory again, the Spirit whispered to me that the servant referred throughout the allegory is Joseph. I don't necessarily mean one particular person, but rather a person-title. I guess you could compare it to an Elias, though "Elias" was a completely different kind of servant. We normally ascribe the symbolism of the servant to a prophet, not any particular prophet, but generally speaking, a prophet.

As I have pondered the history of the Jews (people of Judea), tracing their heritage all the way back to Jacob and how Joseph was responsible for preserving his family as a result of having been sold into slavery and ending up in Egypt, it is clear just how big of a role Joseph played in the history of the house of Jacob, which is the house of Israel, and is still playing today. So let's dive in.

Alma 46:24 Yea, let us preserve our liberty as a remnant of Joseph; yea, let us remember the words of Jacob, before his death, for behold, he saw that a part of the remnant of the coat of Joseph was preserved and had not decayed. And he said—Even as this remnant of garment of my son hath been preserved, so shall a remnant of the seed of my son be preserved by the hand of God, and be taken unto himself, while the remainder of the seed of Joseph shall perish, even as the remnant of his garment.

Just as the Lord preserved a remnant of Joseph's coat, so too did the Lord preserve a remnant of Joseph's seed. Everyone should know the story. And throughout the story of Jacob (Israel), as told by Zenos and preserved by Nephi's brother, Jacob, we read of Joseph continually being preserved.

Jacob 5:49 And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard said unto the servant: Let us go to and hew down the trees of the vineyard and cast them into the fire, that they shall not cumber the ground of my vineyard, for I have done all. What could I have done more for my vineyard?

50 But, behold, the servant said unto the Lord of the vineyard: Spare it a little longer.

51 And the Lord said: Yea, I will spare it a little longer, for it grieveth me that I should lose the trees of my vineyard.

But let's back up a little.

JST, Genesis 50:24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy. The God of my father Jacob be with you, to deliver you out of affliction in the days of your bondage; for the Lord hath visited me, and I have obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins; and unto thee, whom my father Jacob hath named Israel, a prophet; (not the Messiah who is called Shilo;) and this prophet shall deliver my people out of Egypt in the days of thy bondage.

25 And it shall come to pass that they shall be scattered again; and a branch shall be broken off, and shall be carried into a far country; nevertheless they shall be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, when the Messiah cometh; for he shall be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the Spirit of power; and shall bring them out of darkness into light; out of hidden darkness, and out of captivity unto freedom.

26 A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.

27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

28 And he shall bring them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers; and he shall do whatsoever work I shall command him.

29 And I will make him great in mine eyes, for he shall do my work; and he shall be great like unto him whom I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel, out of the land of Egypt; for a seer will I raise up to deliver my people out of the land of Egypt; and he shall be called Moses. And by this name he shall know that he is of thy house; for he shall be nursed by the king’s daughter, and shall be called her son.

30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;

31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.

33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.

34 And the Lord sware unto Joseph that he would preserve his seed forever, saying, I will raise up Moses, and a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people, and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod.

35 And he shall have judgment, and shall write the word of the Lord. And he shall not speak many words, for I will write unto him my law by the finger of mine own hand. And I will make a spokesman for him, and his name shall be called Aaron.

36 And it shall be done unto thee in the last days also, even as I have sworn. Therefore, Joseph said unto his brethren, God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land, unto the land which he sware unto Abraham, and unto Isaac, and to Jacob.

37 And Joseph confirmed many other things unto his brethren, and took an oath of the children of Israel, saying unto them, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.

38 So Joseph died when he was an hundred and ten years old; and they embalmed him, and they put him in a coffin in Egypt; and he was kept from burial by the children of Israel, that he might be carried up and laid in the sepulchre with his father. And thus they remembered the oath which they sware unto him.

So out of Joseph's posterity, Moses will be born to preserve the house of Israel and take them to the promised land. Then later, after they're scattered, Lehi will be taken out of Jerusalem to further preserve Joseph's posterity in a new land of promise, a land where by the last days, a gentile, though still a descendant of Joseph (son of Jacob/Israel), by the name of Joseph, who's father's name is also Joseph, will become a seer and do a work, which will involve more of Joseph's (son of Jacob/Israel) posterity in the last days. Still with me?

We have established that Joseph (son of Jacob/Israel), has preserved his family by bringing them into Egypt. Now let's do some digging. Moses (who is Joseph by name-title) further preserved Israel by delivering them from bondage and out of Egypt. And now they're in the desert and things aren't going so well.

Numbers 14:11 ¶And the Lord said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

12 I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.

13 ¶And Moses said unto the Lord, Then the Egyptians shall hear it, (for thou broughtest up this people in thy might from among them;)

14 And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou Lord art among this people, that thou Lord art seen face to face, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.

15 ¶Now if thou shalt kill all this people as one man, then the nations which have heard the fame of thee will speak, saying,

16 Because the Lord was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them, therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness.

17 And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my Lord be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,

18 The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

19 Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.

20 And the Lord said, I have pardoned according to thy word...

So the servant of the vineyard persuades the Lord to "spare it a little longer." Hundreds and hundreds of years later, the Lord "spares it a little longer" again. In 2 Nephi 3, Lehi is addressing his young son, who Lehi had named Joseph, and recounting the scriptures, which in chapter 3, we read nearly the identical prophecy as in Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible that Joseph would be preserved. Lehi is telling his son and his family that they are part of this fulfillment.

2 Nephi 3: 22 And now, behold, my son Joseph, after this manner did my father of old prophesy.

23 Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed; for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book...

25 And now, blessed art thou, Joseph. Behold, thou art little; wherefore hearken unto the words of thy brother, Nephi, and it shall be done unto thee even according to the words which I have spoken. Remember the words of thy dying father. Amen.

Lehi goes on to bless Laman's posterity that they will never be utterly wiped out:

2 Nephi 4:3 Wherefore, after my father had made an end of speaking concerning the prophecies of Joseph, he called the children of Laman, his sons, and his daughters, and said unto them: Behold, my sons, and my daughters, who are the sons and the daughters of my firstborn, I would that ye should give ear unto my words.

4 For the Lord God hath said that: Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; and inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence.

5 But behold, my sons and my daughters, I cannot go down to my grave save I should leave a blessing upon you; for behold, I know that if ye are brought up in the way ye should go ye will not depart from it.

6 Wherefore, if ye are cursed, behold, I leave my blessing upon you, that the cursing may be taken from you and be answered upon the heads of your parents.

7 Wherefore, because of my blessing the Lord God will not suffer that ye shall perish; wherefore, he will be merciful unto you and unto your seed forever.

Lehi goes on to bless his other children in the same manner. Once again, "Joseph" has persuaded the Lord to "spare it a little longer." A little later, Enos is praying mightily to the Lord, and is forgiven of his sins by the voice of the Lord. After he is forgiven, his heart is poured out on behalf of the Lamanites:

Enos 1:11 And after I, Enos, had heard these words, my faith began to be unshaken in the Lord; and I prayed unto him with many long strugglings for my brethren, the Lamanites.

12 And it came to pass that after I had prayed and labored with all diligence, the Lord said unto me: I will grant unto thee according to thy desires, because of thy faith.

13 And now behold, this was the desire which I desired of him—that if it should so be, that my people, the Nephites, should fall into transgression, and by any means be destroyed, and the Lamanites should not be destroyed, that the Lord God would preserve a record of my people, the Nephites; even if it so be by the power of his holy arm, that it might be brought forth at some future day unto the Lamanites, that, perhaps, they might be brought unto salvation—

14 For at the present our strugglings were vain in restoring them to the true faith. And they swore in their wrath that, if it were possible, they would destroy our records and us, and also all the traditions of our fathers.

15 Wherefore, I knowing that the Lord God was able to preserve our records, I cried unto him continually, for he had said unto me: Whatsoever thing ye shall ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive in the name of Christ, ye shall receive it.

16 And I had faith, and I did cry unto God that he would preserve the records; and he covenanted with me that he would bring them forth unto the Lamanites in his own due time.

17 And I, Enos, knew it would be according to the covenant which he had made; wherefore my soul did rest.

18 And the Lord said unto me: Thy fathers have also required of me this thing; and it shall be done unto them according to their faith; for their faith was like unto thine.

"Thy fathers..." all of whom are of Joseph. Each of them is the servant, Joseph, playing the role of laboring in the vineyard and persuading the Lord to "spare it a little longer." And truly the Lord spared the trees (cuttings) and eventually began to graft them back in. This is where Joseph Smith comes into the picture. Once again, "Joseph," the servant of the vineyard labors diligently, this time calling other servants who are few, to labor with their mights. Whether through Ephraim (gentiles) or through Manasseh (Lamanites), Joseph is preserved and inherits New Jerusalem.

D&C 49: 24 But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

[marc]

I suppose Nephi also played his part. Had Laban been a righteous ruler, being the heir and caretaker of the brass plates, it having been passed down from generation to generation, Joseph, would have been preserved through Laban. But Laban forfeited his birthright. And with Nephi returning to camp not only with the brass plates, but also Laban's sword and armor, it not only fulfilled the Lord's revelation that he would become a ruler over his people, but with the very tokens that legitimized his rulership. A king/ruler in Israel must comply with the Torah. It was the constitutional law of the land both in ancient Israel and obviously in whatever lands the Nephites occupied (cities of Nephi, Zarahemla, etc.).

Deuteronomy 17:18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:

19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:

20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

To quote Nephi:

1 Nephi 4:15 Yea, and I also thought that they could not keep the commandments of the Lord according to the law of Moses, save they should have the law.

16 And I also knew that the law was engraven upon the plates of brass.

17 And again, I knew that the Lord had delivered Laban into my hands for this cause—that I might obtain the records according to his commandments.

It was the king's/ruler's duty to preserve a copy of the law-of the covenant, that his people abide by the law and live the covenant, "to do them," as we read in v. 19. But the Jews, including Laban, fell under condemnation, obviously for having treated lightly what they received. It sure sounds familiar:

D&C 84:54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written...

Interesting the cycles of the Lord's covenant people, especially with Moses and with Joseph Smith.

[jwharton]

I enjoy where you are going with this.

One thing I want to draw your attention to is D&C 113. It talks about the Stem, Rod and Branch. As I read it the Stem is Jesus from Judah and the Rod is Joseph Smith from Ephraim and then the Branch is a servant yet to manifest who is from the tribe of Joseph. So, in looking at 2 Ne 3 and JST Gen 50, bear in mind that there is yet to be an important figure who convinces the people of what had already gone fourth among them by way of Joseph Smith who would "bring them to the knowledge". JST 50:28. This 3rd figure yet to come is spoken of in JST 50:30. God knew ahead of time that Joseph Smith would only get so far, because the greater understanding would be rejected by the Gentiles.

[marc]

I'm not convinced that JST 50:30 as I quoted above is anyone other than Joseph Smith. I suppose it's possible. But if you'll note, it's why I highlighted all references to Moses in one color and Joseph Smith in another. D&C 103 has some insightful information, too:

D&C 103: 15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;

16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.

17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.

20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.

21 Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

The parable mentioned above, however, refers to the parable given to Joseph Smith two years earlier, which concerns the building of the Nauvoo Temple in a specific amount of time. But the saints polluted their inheritances, as predicted by the Lord, and Joseph Smith was taken away as Moses was taken away. By the end of the parable, found in D&C 101, a long time passed between the time Joseph was taken and the end, when Zion is to be redeemed. In various places of D&C, we read that the saints must endure chastening. And so they did, being driven out as they were. We've been wandering in the wilderness ever since. I believe the worst is yet to come. Unless Joseph Smith returns as an angel to do more work as Moroni did, I think his part in this great play is over. Just my two cents.

[jwharton]

I'm not convinced that JST 50:30 as I quoted above is anyone other than Joseph Smith. I suppose it's possible. But if you'll note, it's why I highlighted all references to Moses in one color and Joseph Smith in another. D&C 103 has some insightful information, too:

D&C 103: 15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;

16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.

17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.

20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.

21 Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

The parable mentioned above, however, refers to the parable given to Joseph Smith two years earlier, which concerns the building of the Nauvoo Temple in a specific amount of time. But the saints polluted their inheritances, as predicted by the Lord, and Joseph Smith was taken away as Moses was taken away. By the end of the parable, found in D&C 101, a long time passed between the time Joseph was taken and the end, when Zion is to be redeemed. In various places of D&C, we read that the saints must endure chastening. And so they did, being driven out as they were. We've been wandering in the wilderness ever since. I believe the worst is yet to come. Unless Joseph Smith returns as an angel to do more work as Moroni did, I think his part in this great play is over. Just my two cents.

There's a detail about this revelation I believe you should look into. The original revelation as received by Joseph Smith has been altered. It did not actually say Joseph Smith, but rather it said Barak El, which was believed to be merely a code name. However, as I understand it, this was referring to when Joseph Smith would return in the future to convince the people after they would gain a knowledge of what he revealed.

There are also some very detailed links between Jacob 5 and D&C 101. I'll look them up and verify them and get back to you in a bit.

Also, I wanted to mention, the way the prophesies are written are such that the early saints could have had success and so they are sufficiently vague to leave in the possibility that they would accept the higher laws. Joseph Smith could have been both the one to bring them to the knowledge and to also convince them in his lifetime. But, as can be seen, his higher teachings were rejected and are all pretty much washed out of the church. They were not convinced of Celestial Law. That is yet to happen. We are for the most part pursuing a course that is very different from what was originally intended with hardly no indication in sight that we are still yearning for implementing the Celestial Laws.

This feature of having a fall and a season of buffeting waiting for redemption is demonstrated in the Adam and Eve narrative. The early work of Christianity represents the spring feasts in their prophetic fulfillment and the work of the latter-day saints represents the fall feasts in their prophetic fulfillment. A feature of the fall feasts is if the barley isn't quite ripe enough then the harvest festivals are halted and an additional month is added to their calendar and they start the fall feast when that new month comes. Thus, some years the Hebrews would have 13 months in their year. When this happened there would be a little season waiting to have the new month come so that things could go through and reach their completion. This is what I see happening with the latter-day work. It got kicked off as scheduled but the people weren't sufficiently ready, the barley wasn't sufficiently ripe, and so the Lord removed Joseph Smith from them because the harvest would need to be recommenced at least after the 3rd and 4th generation had all passed away. Then, Joseph Smith would return and bring back the higher laws and understanding he was trying to establish and the harvest would kick off yet again with the LDS people having the opportunity to be convinced of what Mormonism was really intended to be or to reject it and fight against God and reap Perdition in the new War in Heaven when Adam fights to regain His throne and is redeemed and gains the victory. Think Adam-ondi-Ahman here. That is yet future.

[Robert Sinclair]

Got to love the great and wonderful "if" written and commanded to Jesus Christ to give to us of the very Eternal Father in Heaven in 3rd Nephi.

Now all we need to do is weep and howl and sound the alarm that perhaps the old men and administers of the law of God and the Tithes and Offerings might just give ear and consider:

Hath this corruption and perversion of equity been in our day and even in the days of our fathers?

And consider it, and the Scriptures written of Hosea 14:8 finally where Ephraim shall say,

"What have I to do anymore with idols?"

And finally return to keep the commandments of God given to bring forth fruits equal and delightful unto the Lord, giving covenants and deeds that cannot be broken into the hands of all the poor Saints sufficient for the support of their families as God has commanded from the Tithes and Offerings without any grudgingly behavior.

This can work, the "if" written and promised by God is not idle words whatsoever.

They can be used to give great hope to us all especially if we continue to weep and howl and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion as Lord has said.

So let us so do. ♡ ♡

[jwharton]

Got to love the great and wonderful "if" written and commanded to Jesus Christ to give to us of the very Eternal Father in Heaven in 3rd Nephi.

Now all we need to do is weep and howl and sound the alarm that perhaps the old men and administers of the law of God and the Tithes and Offerings might just give ear and consider:

Hath this corruption and perversion of equity been in our day and even in the days of our fathers?

And consider it, and the Scriptures written of Hosea 14:8 finally where Ephraim shall say,

"What have I to do anymore with idols?"

And finally return to keep the commandments of God given to bring forth fruits equal and delightful unto the Lord, giving covenants and deeds that cannot be broken into the hands of all the poor Saints sufficient for the support of their families as God has commanded from the Tithes and Offerings without any grudgingly behavior.

This can work, the "if" written and promised by God is not idle words whatsoever.

They can be used to give great hope to us all especially if we continue to weep and howl and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion as Lord has said.

So let us so do. ♡ ♡

The sentiments of this post are good but I am at a loss to see how it contributes to the current thread's development.
If you want to make a random remark I recommend you start a new thread for it rather than blur and diffuse an existing thread.

[Robert Sinclair]

Sorry, I see it comes around as one, the same thing over and over. Jacob 5 is one of my favorite chapters of the "One Stick" because of the servant that asks to spare it a little longer and the Lord agrees.

And finally the commandments of God given all begin to be kept and the fruits that are equal and delightful unto the Lord finally are in the vineyard once more. ♡ ♡

But I will cease from posting further on this thread as you have asked. ♡ ♡

[marc]

jwharton, from what I understand, all of Joseph Smith's fourth generation posterity has passed away, as Hyrum's. Eldred Smith passed away nearly two years ago, being Hyrum's great grandson. Only M. Russell Ballard, Hyrum's great grandson yet lives. I am familiar with the the Lord cursing covenant people for four generations throughout history. These are interesting times. I believe relative to the allegory, we are well into verse 52. The grafting has begun and the gathering of the natural branches back into their native tree, or in other words, the hearts of the children (covenant people) to their fathers (the prophets) and vice versa.

3 Nephi 20: 23 Behold, I am he of whom Moses spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that every soul who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people.

24 Verily I say unto you, yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have testified of me.

25 And behold, ye are the children of the prophets; and ye are of the house of Israel; and ye are of the covenant which the Father made with your fathers, saying unto Abraham: And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 The Father having raised me up unto you first, and sent me to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities; and this because ye are the children of the covenant

Without being reconnected to the Fathers, or rather the branches back to the tree, no fruit could be produced, at least good fruit, and the world/vineyard would utterly be wasted. The Lord has not spent all this time pruning and dunging and digging, etc to grow lofty trees. He wants fruit. Good fruit. Eventually the whole tree and the vineyard will be burned. He doesn't care about any of that other than to produce fruit. It would truly be a waste if no fruit could be produced and preserved. But even if one single good fruit was produced, within it are seed enough to populate worlds without number. And thus His work and His glory.

[BroJones]

21 Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

Thank you for reminding us of this revelation from Jesus. Assuredly, Joseph Smith's work continues and will continue, think of the great meeting to come (I think soon) at Adam-ondi-Ahman in Missouri for example.

[jwharton]

I'll include some of what I understanding of Jacob chapter 5.

Verse 61 is where Joseph Smith and the early saints were commissioned to labor in the vineyard. The lord seems to know that this effort, even though the last, was yet a preparatory phase only. The grafting in of the branches is the gathering of Israel. It is a work intended to gather the entire house of Israel and clearly define all 12 tribes. Verse 64 contains the phrase "and if it be so that these last grafts shall grow, and bring forth the natural fruit"... So we see that there was a conditional factor here. The "natural fruit" is the fruit of the celestial kingdom. So, if the efforts succeed in establishing the Celestial Law among the people, it would go well. If not, then there would be a pruning again and the bad and unfruitful branches would be removed. If there is a transgression then there shall be a fall.

With verse 70 it seems to do a repeat as if what was said before is being said again. Was it just re-emphasizing what was already said in a little bit of a different way or perhaps is it indicating that the lack of the natural fruit looked for would necessitate a little season and another push before the final end came? It is sufficiently vague to be taken either way. And, as I see it, verse 70 pertains to a new Elias messenger sent to try and redeem the effort to bring in the natural fruit that had thus far failed. These would be a very small band of outcasts like John the Baptist in the wilderness. The Elias/Elijah always seems to be an outcast. The servant spoken of in Isaiah 66:1-5 and corroborated by the D&C 50:14-19 "pattern in all things" is a way to identify this servant being spoken of here in verse 70. Please carefully examine the parallels of these verses as it is very telling.

This servant comes after the initial preparatory effort to harvest falls and prior to the time when the Lord of the Vineyard would himself come. This little group of a few with their "cast out" Prophet were also given a condition "and if ye labor with your might with me". The implication here is that the Lord of the Vineyard would also personally come, but this little group may or may not recognize and accept the Lord of the Vineyard.

Then, verse 72 speaks of the time when things would all finally come together once the Lord of the Vineyard came personally and began to join His labors in with the labors of His servants. Then we see in verse 73 that the "natural fruit" is finally being realized, which is yet future.

Where D&C 101 fits in is it is a parable about Zion's redemption. The context here dovetails in with what I referred to above that the initial work performed by the servants spoken of in Jac 5:61 would only end up being a preparatory work that wouldn't actually succeed to bring in the natural fruit. It was a work that would fall into transgression and be in need of being redeemed. Think Adam and Eve here... Driven out of Jackson Co., clothed with garments in Nauvoo and exiled to the lone and dreary wilderness of the Great Basin to await their day of redemption after a little season of being buffeted by the adversary who comes to take them for a spoil. See D&C 101:45.

So, we have the advent of the Son of Man or Lord of Hosts spoken of in D&C 101:55-62 and Jacob 5:70, who ministers to this transgressed and fallen work in an effort to redeem it as well as to be the Elias for the eventual advent of the Lord of the Vineyard, who is the Father. (Most people don't realize there are several significant advents in the latter-days, not just the "return of Jesus".)

This suggests to me that things wont really get sorted out and redeemed until the Lord of the Vineyard himself comes to clean up the mess and really get things growing in the desirable manner. This wouldn't be possible if it weren't for the advent of the Son of Man to redeem the Father. As I read this, the advent of the Lord of the Vineyard Himself is the advent of the Father who brings in the Celestial Kingdom. The servant of verse 70 with the "few" around him is the advent of the Son of Man who was the Elias for the advent of the Father.

[marc]

60 And because that I have preserved the natural branches and the roots thereof, and that I have grafted in the natural branches again into their mother tree, and have preserved the roots of their mother tree, that, perhaps, the trees of my vineyard may bring forth again good fruit; and that I may have joy again in the fruit of my vineyard, and, perhaps, that I may rejoice exceedingly that I have preserved the roots and the branches of the first fruit—

Throughout the allegory, the Lord uses the word "perhaps."

...that, perhaps, the trees of my vineyard may bring forth again good fruit; and that I may have joy again in the fruit of my vineyard, and, perhaps, that I may rejoice exceedingly...

that, perhaps, I may preserve unto myself the roots thereof for mine own purpose...

that, perhaps, the roots thereof may take strength because of their goodness..

I will prune it, and dig about it, and nourish it, that perhaps it may shoot forth young and tender branches, and it perish not...

that perhaps it may bring forth good fruit ...

It grieveth me that I should lose this tree; wherefore, that perhaps I might preserve the roots thereof that they perish not...

that when they shall be sufficiently strong perhaps they may bring forth good fruit unto me, and I may yet have glory in the fruit of my vineyard....

The Lord said that he labored almost the entire day. He pruned and digged and dunged and stretched forth his hand laboring and laboring. But the tree must respond. In other words, He does not force the tree into submission. He could have created a tree that did nothing but produce good fruit...or could He? Would He? No, he does not. The tree must respond. We must be able to exercise agency and produce good fruit. The Lord asks, what could I have done more? The tree had become lofty with outstretched branches. But it was still barren.

It doesn't matter if the covenant people, or rather the church owns a university, or a football team or a gigantic conference center or umpteen temples if all of that doesn't produce a people who are proud and pollute their inheritances. And so we have done this. As you said, fruit must be celestial. To be celestial is to be redeemed. Lehi declared that he was redeemed. He had beheld the Lord's glory. Nephi and also his brother Jacob had also beheld the Lord. They became celestial fruit. Our Savior defines what it means to be good fruit, or rather what it means to be redeemed, as He intends to redeem Zion:

Ether 3:11 And the Lord said unto him: Believest thou the words which I shall speak?

12 And he answered: Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie.

13 And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said: Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall; therefore ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you.

14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

To become good fruit is to become Christ's sons and daughters. It is to be brought back into His presence. It is to receive the testimony of Jesus as the brother of Jared did, who had faith no longer, for he had knowledge. And this is what Joseph Smith said. A man is saved no faster than he "gets knowledge."

[jwharton]

jwharton, from what I understand, all of Joseph Smith's fourth generation posterity has passed away, as Hyrum's. Eldred Smith passed away nearly two years ago, being Hyrum's great grandson. Only M. Russell Ballard, Hyrum's great grandson yet lives. I am familiar with the the Lord cursing covenant people for four generations throughout history. These are interesting times. I believe relative to the allegory, we are well into verse 52. The grafting has begun and the gathering of the natural branches back into their native tree, or in other words, the hearts of the children (covenant people) to their fathers (the prophets) and vice versa.

3 Nephi 20: 23 Behold, I am he of whom Moses spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that every soul who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people.

24 Verily I say unto you, yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have testified of me.

25 And behold, ye are the children of the prophets; and ye are of the house of Israel; and ye are of the covenant which the Father made with your fathers, saying unto Abraham: And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 The Father having raised me up unto you first, and sent me to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities; and this because ye are the children of the covenant

Without being reconnected to the Fathers, or rather the branches back to the tree, no fruit could be produced, at least good fruit, and the world/vineyard would utterly be wasted. The Lord has not spent all this time pruning and dunging and digging, etc to grow lofty trees. He wants fruit. Good fruit. Eventually the whole tree and the vineyard will be burned. He doesn't care about any of that other than to produce fruit. It would truly be a waste if no fruit could be produced and preserved. But even if one single good fruit was produced, within it are seed enough to populate worlds without number. And thus His work and His glory.

Very interesting information about the actual 3rd and 4th generation as it applies to the early saints. I hadn't really taken the time to trace things out and see where things were. I simply sensed that we are very close if not already at that point. Appreciate some confirming facts there.

I also agree entirely that it doesn't matter if the whole tree is eventually burned by fire, so to speak, if prior to this time even just a few good fruits could be harvested in order to garner into the storehouse to be planted so that an entirely new cycle of life can be seeded from that fruit. What this is actually signifying is we are in the latter days and this is the latter end of the current cycle of creation. The tree being "burned" simply means the Holy Ghost withdraws from all people except those who receive the Father and His Kingdom. All are divided between the light and the dark and the people who reject the Father's Kingdom have taken from them all of the light and truth they once had. They are overcome by the dominion of the adversary and become spiritually dead. They lose their individual sovereignty and agency and either get beheaded for refusing to deny the Christ or they deny Christ and integrate into what some call the "New World Order. We are approaching more and more all the time this great division and the advent of the Father and His Kingdom is our only refuge of safety.

My understanding is that us individually qualifying, or instilling into our posterity the knowledge and understanding of what it is to be natural fruit and the desire to remain faithful during this little season of waiting, to become part of this precious seed stock garnered to safety is what constitutes Eternal Life. If you or your posterity become the seed-stock for an entirely new cycle of Creation then you also become part of the Eloheim council or body of souls and in essence are able to realize the fullest of your potential for exaltation. Being the collective Patriarchs and Matriarchs of an entire cycle of Creation is what stands before us as a possibility and a focus on the Celestial Plan of the Father as was endeavored to be given to the early Saints is the acceptable offering. We must be wary of the Luciferian usurpation that would have us instead seduced into the adversary's "prison planet" system that has the image of good intentions but which is a counterfeit.

[jwharton]

60 And because that I have preserved the natural branches and the roots thereof, and that I have grafted in the natural branches again into their mother tree, and have preserved the roots of their mother tree, that, perhaps, the trees of my vineyard may bring forth again good fruit; and that I may have joy again in the fruit of my vineyard, and, perhaps, that I may rejoice exceedingly that I have preserved the roots and the branches of the first fruit—

Throughout the allegory, the Lord uses the word "perhaps."

...that, perhaps, the trees of my vineyard may bring forth again good fruit; and that I may have joy again in the fruit of my vineyard, and, perhaps, that I may rejoice exceedingly...

that, perhaps, I may preserve unto myself the roots thereof for mine own purpose...

that, perhaps, the roots thereof may take strength because of their goodness..

I will prune it, and dig about it, and nourish it, that perhaps it may shoot forth young and tender branches, and it perish not...

that perhaps it may bring forth good fruit ...

It grieveth me that I should lose this tree; wherefore, that perhaps I might preserve the roots thereof that they perish not...

that when they shall be sufficiently strong perhaps they may bring forth good fruit unto me, and I may yet have glory in the fruit of my vineyard....

The Lord said that he labored almost the entire day. He pruned and digged and dunged and stretched forth his hand laboring and laboring. But the tree must respond. In other words, He does not force the tree into submission. He could have created a tree that did nothing but produce good fruit...or could He? Would He? No, he does not. The tree must respond. We must be able to exercise agency and produce good fruit. The Lord asks, what could I have done more? The tree had become lofty with outstretched branches. But it was still barren.

It doesn't matter if the covenant people, or rather the church owns a university, or a football team or a gigantic conference center or umpteen temples if all of that doesn't produce a people who are proud and pollute their inheritances. And so we have done this. As you said, fruit must be celestial. To be celestial is to be redeemed. Lehi declared that he was redeemed. He had beheld the Lord's glory. Nephi and also his brother Jacob had also beheld the Lord. They became celestial fruit. Our Savior defines what it means to be good fruit, or rather what it means to be redeemed, as He intends to redeem Zion:

Ether 3:11 And the Lord said unto him: Believest thou the words which I shall speak?

12 And he answered: Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie.

13 And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said: Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall; therefore ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you.

14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

To become good fruit is to become Christ's sons and daughters. It is to be brought back into His presence. It is to receive the testimony of Jesus as the brother of Jared did, who had faith no longer, for he had knowledge. And this is what Joseph Smith said. A man is saved no faster than he "gets knowledge."

I was just going to click the "Thanks" button but it wouldn't do justice. This was an excellent post. THANK YOU!

[marc]

Very interesting information about the actual 3rd and 4th generation as it applies to the early saints. I hadn't really taken the time to trace things out and see where things were. I simply sensed that we are very close if not already at that point. Appreciate some confirming facts there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_fami ... _Saints%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jwharton]

Very interesting information about the actual 3rd and 4th generation as it applies to the early saints. I hadn't really taken the time to trace things out and see where things were. I simply sensed that we are very close if not already at that point. Appreciate some confirming facts there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_fami ... _Saints%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This shows only prominent descendants. I wonder how many others who are not prominent are still among us.

[marc]

Well, if they're out there, they're pretty darn old. By the way, the wikipedia link shows the first generation with Joseph Smith, Sr. and Lucy Mack Smith. So we have to adjust generations by a factor of one for an accurate depiction of generations relative to this discussion.

[jwharton]

Sorry, I see it comes around as one, the same thing over and over. Jacob 5 is one of my favorite chapters of the "One Stick" because of the servant that asks to spare it a little longer and the Lord agrees.

And finally the commandments of God given all begin to be kept and the fruits that are equal and delightful unto the Lord finally are in the vineyard once more. ♡ ♡

But I will cease from posting further on this thread as you have asked. ♡ ♡

My hope was to encourage you to really carefully read what is posted here and to participate in specific and relevant ways.

When I am following a thread I like to see relevant and specific exchange take place between people on a focused subject. I find it amazing how when things go back and fourth you can gain the advantage of seeing through both of their eyes or at the least through the eyes of someone else you are exchanging with. This process is a means of obtaining spiritual depth perception. If we didn't have two eyes to see with we wouldn't be able to perceive depth. The same is true spiritually.

So, I must confess, I have started to skip most of your posts as I trace through threads because more often than not your posts are generally not directly related to the subject being focused on. I find that this is a distraction that diffuses and blurs a thread from giving all of us the benefit of spiritual depth perception.

So, I ask you, please, carefully read the OP and join in the discussion in a focused way. Exchange and interact in a specifically relevant manner and I will stop feeling the need to just lightly skim what you contribute. And, please continue to also infuse your weeping for the plight of the poor and needy and all of that because it is much needed.

Put another way, please bring your cries and your weeping to deeper spiritual levels.

[larsenb]

jwharton, from what I understand, all of Joseph Smith's fourth generation posterity has passed away, as Hyrum's. Eldred Smith passed away nearly two years ago, being Hyrum's great grandson. Only M. Russell Ballard, Hyrum's great grandson yet lives. .

Just an incidental note. Eldred Smith's daughter is in our ward, and he would show up on rare occasions, including when he had reached 106. I went up and introduced myself to him on one of his last visits after his 106th birthday and mentioned that my family had been in his ward when they lived on 3rd Avenue in SLC. He seemed quite sharp and aware, but didn't find my little revelation too exciting.

Luckily I had enough sense not to launch into how my sister had beaten up one of his older daughters, who had been harassing her.

Another really fascinating experience in my ward was to discover that an older gentleman was actually a grandson of Parley P. Pratt. I used to sit behind him and his wife in the pews and would marvel that right there, in front of me, was the last surviving grandson of Parley. Can't remember his first name. But he had been fighter pilot in WWII and had flown mustangs when they appeared on the scene.

He passed away in 2004, or thereabouts, and certainly never new his granddad who had been murdered in about 1856-57.

[marc]

64 Wherefore, dig about them, and prune them, and dung them once more, for the last time, for the end draweth nigh. And if it be so that these last grafts shall grow, and bring forth the natural fruit, then shall ye prepare the way for them, that they may grow.

65 And as they begin to grow ye shall clear away the branches which bring forth bitter fruit, according to the strength of the good and the size thereof; and ye shall not clear away the bad thereof all at once, lest the roots thereof should be too strong for the graft, and the graft thereof shall perish, and I lose the trees of my vineyard.

66 For it grieveth me that I should lose the trees of my vineyard; wherefore ye shall clear away the bad according as the good shall grow, that the root and the top may be equal in strength, until the good shall overcome the bad, and the bad be hewn down and cast into the fire, that they cumber not the ground of my vineyard; and thus will I sweep away the bad out of my vineyard.

In light of the grafting, we see that more work is essential--more pruning, dunging, clearing away branches with bitter fruit, etc. as good branches overcoming bad, etc. Four generations will need to be sorted out so that good fruit can be harvested. This is the "last time" of laboring before the big harvest. When Zion is redeemed, nobody will need say, "know ye the Lord?" because everyone will know Him, having been redeemed as the bro. of Jared, who was brought back into His presence. Good fruit.

[jwharton]

64 Wherefore, dig about them, and prune them, and dung them once more, for the last time, for the end draweth nigh. And if it be so that these last grafts shall grow, and bring forth the natural fruit, then shall ye prepare the way for them, that they may grow.

65 And as they begin to grow ye shall clear away the branches which bring forth bitter fruit, according to the strength of the good and the size thereof; and ye shall not clear away the bad thereof all at once, lest the roots thereof should be too strong for the graft, and the graft thereof shall perish, and I lose the trees of my vineyard.

66 For it grieveth me that I should lose the trees of my vineyard; wherefore ye shall clear away the bad according as the good shall grow, that the root and the top may be equal in strength, until the good shall overcome the bad, and the bad be hewn down and cast into the fire, that they cumber not the ground of my vineyard; and thus will I sweep away the bad out of my vineyard.

In light of the grafting, we see that more work is essential--more pruning, dunging, clearing away branches with bitter fruit, etc. as good branches overcoming bad, etc. Four generations will need to be sorted out so that good fruit can be harvested. This is the "last time" of laboring before the big harvest. When Zion is redeemed, nobody will need say, "know ye the Lord?" because everyone will know Him, having been redeemed as the bro. of Jared, who was brought back into His presence. Good fruit.

I agree with what you are saying here. The thing that makes me curious is to contemplate how that is going to show up.

I think some people would be inclined to assume that everyone who remains a member of the mainstream church in good standing is the "good" fruit while those who are excommunicated are the "bad" fruit.

How correct and/or safe do you suppose this generalization is?

[Original_Intent]

Well, if they're out there, they're pretty darn old. By the way, the wikipedia link shows the first generation with Joseph Smith, Sr. and Lucy Mack Smith. So we have to adjust generations by a factor of one for an accurate depiction of generations relative to this discussion.

Not sure I'd be too concerned about what a Wikipedia article counts as the first generation...

[marc]

I agree with what you are saying here. The thing that makes me curious is to contemplate how that is going to show up.

I think some people would be inclined to assume that everyone who remains a member of the mainstream church in good standing is the "good" fruit while those who are excommunicated are the "bad" fruit.

How correct and/or safe do you suppose this generalization is?

Being a card carrying member of the church is no more safe than being a licensed vehicle in a garage when an earthquake hits. What do you suppose the statistics are that of the number of baptized members of the church worldwide, only a certain percentage are active, temple recommend holders? And of that number, how many truly live and honor their covenants? We covenant to sacrifice, but how many of us covenant by sacrifice? How many of us truly are not just saying, but doing? And becoming?

[marc]

Well, if they're out there, they're pretty darn old. By the way, the wikipedia link shows the first generation with Joseph Smith, Sr. and Lucy Mack Smith. So we have to adjust generations by a factor of one for an accurate depiction of generations relative to this discussion.

Not sure I'd be too concerned about what a Wikipedia article counts as the first generation...

I was just making a point that relative to what we're talking about, the four generations of covenant cursings begin with whom covenants were made. In this case, Joseph Smith Jr was the dispensational father. He is the prophet of the restoration. When he was killed, covenant cursings applied to four generations from him and not his parents.

[jwharton]

I agree with what you are saying here. The thing that makes me curious is to contemplate how that is going to show up.

I think some people would be inclined to assume that everyone who remains a member of the mainstream church in good standing is the "good" fruit while those who are excommunicated are the "bad" fruit.

How correct and/or safe do you suppose this generalization is?

Being a card carrying member of the church is no more safe than being a licensed vehicle in a garage when an earthquake hits. What do you suppose the statistics are that of the number of baptized members of the church worldwide, only a certain percentage are active, temple recommend holders? And of that number, how many truly live and honor their covenants? We covenant to sacrifice, but how many of us covenant by sacrifice? How many of us truly are not just saying, but doing? And becoming?

Ok, I think I follow you. You are saying active church membership is of no value unless you are actually keeping (meaning doing) what it means to be the "natural fruit".

Would you agree then by your definition, that those of the mindset such as the Fundamentalists have, that they are adamant to keep the higher Celestial laws, are in a much better parking garage than those who still have their "license" (so to speak) in the mainstream church?