The Cult of the Firstborn

[Jeremy]

The Cult of the Firstborn

I find it interesting that this blog post focus so much on the need for the LDS church and rails against a so called "Cult of the Firstborn" which focus so much on the need for Christ.

Word count:
Jesus - 3 times
All 3 times are referring to an aspect of what the "cult" believes regarding Christ. The contrast is seem when looking at the acronym "LDS".

LDS - 51 times
7 times is referring to the LDS Freedom Forum
The other 44 time are references to the LDS church or members/positions/doctrines/standards of the LDS church

While the "cult" seems to rely solely upon Jesus Christ (according to the author), which seems to be viewed as an error by the author, it seems that the correct way is to rely upon the LDS church. This dependency upon the LDS church is referenced repeatedly. Along with the statements of this dependency are found 6 mentions of excommunication from the LDS church.

From my reading of this entire blog post I find it interesting that the author is making claims which rail against those who depend solely upon Christ, calling them a cult. I find it humorous that these individuals are refereed to as united. I find it disturbing that the author considers the use of an anonymous username to be a sign of secrecy that is suggested to be dishonest and deceitful... all the while the author has posted on this forum under multiple user accounts. I find it difficult to understand how going directly to Christ can be referred to as a backdoor to the kingdom when HE IS THE GATE to the kingdom!

All in all, I suggest this reading material. Some will find it humorous. Some will find it ironic. Others will relate and find great truths. Regardless of what value you find there, it is very interesting that a presumed "cult" like characteristic is able to be seen by both sides of this issue. Be it the LDS cult, or the apparent united cult of the firstborn...

[Lance]

-

[marc]

The first line on her blog:

While interacting online at LDS Freedom Forum, I slowly encountered a united group who are calling themselves the Church of the Firstborn.

I don't know where in the world she read that in light of any lack of citations. I wonder if she has ever cracked open her Doctrine and Covenants book.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:22 And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

Doctrine and Covenants 78:21 For ye are the church of the Firstborn, and he will take you up in a cloud, and appoint every man his portion.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:5 Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son—

Doctrine and Covenants 76:67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;

Doctrine and Covenants 76:102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.

Doctrine and Covenants 107:19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.

Section 76 is clear on who receives membership.

51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—

52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;

53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.

58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God...

None of us on this forum have claimed membership, though we have discussed this often. I wonder who this blogger thinks has given Joseph Smith all his revelations if not Jesus Christ. Who does this blogger think paid for our sins and is our only Redeemer and Savior if not Jesus Christ.

Cult indeed! =;

Edit: Oh! Woops. It's not a she. It's none other than our own beloved Darwin Bagley. :ymparty:

[Cookies]

"once I am a member of the Church of the Firstborn, then I will no longer need my LDS Ordinances, my LDS Temple Covenants, the LDS Church, or the LDS General Authorities."

Dallin H Oaks said this at conference! It's also in the scriptures (Ephesians 4:11-14).
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Organized religion, established by divine authority, is essential, as the Apostle Paul taught:

“For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:12–13).

:ymparty:Hallelujah!! :ymparty:

[marc]

I didn't read past the first sentence.

[Jeremy]

None of us on this forum have claimed membership, though we have discussed this often.

I have claimed membership, though I have not claimed to be the church. I have an association. This association manifests in varying degrees as one progresses. It is not a mantel but a fellowship.

Sorry for the confusion Marc.

[Jeremy]

:ymparty:Hallelujah!! :ymparty:

Its almost as if it is a schoolmaster.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[marc]

None of us on this forum have claimed membership, though we have discussed this often.

I have claimed membership, though I have not claimed to be the church. I have an association. This association manifests in varying degrees as one progresses. It is not a mantel but a fellowship.

Gotcha.

Sorry for the confusion Marc.

No worries.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Interesting. It looks like Darwin... er... Megaman... er... Bagley, are promoting this article on multiple blogs:

http://ofgodandgoddesses.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://megasatire.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://allwomenordained.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AI2.0]

Though the writer comes off a bit reactionary, the accusations made have merit, at least from what I've encountered here.

I haven't been here long but I can see that Denver Snuffer has a number of devotees on this forum. I've also encountered the phenomena of posters who claim to have their Calling and Election or have seen Jesus Christ yet, they don't seem affiliated with the LDS church--I believe some are excommunicated or have left the church. They are dismissive of LDS ordinances and critical of the LDS church, denigrating it as a corporation and seem to think that if we sustain Pres. Monson we are following and putting faith in a man and instead should look only within our own hearts to find Christ. This attitude of not needing or wanting affiliation with the church was disconcerting to me and I've been trying to make sense of it; since reading the accusations about this 'church of the firstborn', it does seem that the writer may have hit on something.

I recall a post where someone here claimed to be a member of the church of the firstborn, which set off the red flags in my mind, since I know of a number of sects who've used that term or one similar. It sounded a bit 'cultish'. I hope I don't offend anyone, but I'm sharing my honest impressions.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

"once I am a member of the Church of the Firstborn, then I will no longer need my LDS Ordinances, my LDS Temple Covenants, the LDS Church, or the LDS General Authorities."

Dallin H Oaks said this at conference! It's also in the scriptures (Ephesians 4:11-14).
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Organized religion, established by divine authority, is essential, as the Apostle Paul taught:

“For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:12–13).

:ymparty:Hallelujah!! :ymparty:

Elder Poleman said it in his talk too:

http://www.journeytothefullness.com/the ... he-church/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cookies]

None of us on this forum have claimed membership, though we have discussed this often.

I have claimed membership, though I have not claimed to be the church. I have an association. This association manifests in varying degrees as one progresses. It is not a mantel but a fellowship.

Sorry for the confusion Marc.

Does anybody know if becoming a member of the Church of the Firstborn manifests itself in varying degrees as one progresses?
I'm not sure how to word this but my question is whether a separate being tells you (or ordains you) that you're a member, or you just spiritually qualify to become one and know (Holy Ghost)? (or both???) Hope that makes sense...

[Matthew.B]

So... Is MegaManToo also Darwin Bagley? Or are they merely united in their cause of being against the "Cult of the Firstborn"?

I don't know any of the details of who Darwin says is the ringleader, but judging from sen6b's recent thread saying how she got PM's questioning her motives, there is indeed an over protective reaction that occurs here from time to time. The truth will win out; we just need to speak it in love.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

So... Is MegaManToo also Darwin Bagley? Or are they merely united in their cause of being against the "Cult of the Firstborn"?

I don't know any of the details of who Darwin says is the ringleader, but judging from sen6b's recent thread saying how she got PM's questioning her motives, there is indeed an over protective reaction that occurs here from time to time. The truth will win out; we just need to speak it in love.

Same person

[BagleyDarwin]

Cult of the Firstborn Revisited:

Ever since Hirum Page started receiving revelations from Satan through the peep stone (D&C 28:11), there have been Cults of the Firstborn, or Secret Gnostic Groups, or Selective Clubs in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Each one of these groups makes the claim that they have Special Knowledge from God or Secret Knowledge from God that the Apostles of God do not have.

During the Primitive Church of Jesus Christ, the Apostles of God were driven out of Congregations of the Church by Gnostics claiming to have Secret Knowledge from God that the Apostles of God did not have. Gnosticism in a sense killed the Primitive Church of Jesus Christ; and, it could kill the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints if we are not aware of that particular Satanic Trap.

I coined the phrase, “The Cult of the Firstborn”, so that I and my LDS friends would have a term that we could use in person and during Private Messaging to describe the phenomenon.

There is nothing new about the Cult of the Firstborn. While talking with one of my LDS friends last weekend, he told me that a decade or two ago, one of his friends had been captured by one these Gnostic Groups, led away from the LDS Church, and destroyed. The results can be devastating. Lives and families can be destroyed if we choose to fall for one of these Gnostic Groups.

I realize now that anyone who considers themselves to be a member of the Cult of the Firstborn might be offended by the term. Being called a Gnostic Group sounds a lot cooler, I must admit. After all, the Gnostics know things that the rest of the Latter-day Saints and the LDS Apostles don't know and can't know. So, it sounds a lot cooler to be a Gnostic than to just be a member of the Cult of the Firstborn.

One of my spiritual gifts is the ability to notice patterns or trends. These things just kind of jump out at me. I can see throughout the whole of LDS Church history all of these different Gnostic Groups or Cults of the Firstborn that rise up, flourish, and then slowly die out. There are hundreds and even thousands of them.

God the Father lost one-third of the hosts of Heaven to a Gnostic Group. One-third of the hosts of Heaven refused to sustain the Brethren (Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost). They thought that they knew better or were smarter than God the Father. They thought that they knew something that God did not know. They thought that they could do it their own way.

Joseph Smith tells us that the Ten Virgins represent the Latter-day Saints. According to the parable of the Ten Virgins, half of the baptized Latter-day Saints during the whole history of the Latter-day Saints are going to apostatize from the LDS Church or walk away from the LDS Church.

I personally have predicted that one-third of the Latter-day Saints will be lost to a refusal to sustain or accept the LDS General Authorities or the Local Leaders in their wards and stakes. If I am correct, a huge number of Latter-day Saints throughout the history of the Latter-day Saints will be drawn away to various Gnostic Groups or Cults of the Firstborn, because these Groups will claim superior knowledge and superior revelations than the knowledge and revelations that the Apostles of God are receiving.

I can see the pattern, and I can see the trend. My purpose in writing about it is to warn the active Latter-day Saints about it. Those who have already fallen for one of the many hundreds of different Gnostic groups will not receive any benefit from my warning, and might even take exception to it. That's the nature of issuing a warning. The LDS Apostles get the same result whenever they issue a warning. The Gnostics are here to stay, and so is the Cult of the Firstborn.

[Original_Intent]

Congratulations on becoming my first "foe". I just can't stand your hypocritical, holier than thou, arrogant and ignorant B.S any more.

Well done, you have accomplished what NO ONE on LDSFF has managed to do.

Hope you find the following you so obviously seek.

[BagleyDarwin]

I wrote this to BrianM:

I signed up for this forum as MegaManToo back when I was going through withdrawal and first started attending the LDS Church. My intention was to lurk, which is what I did for a year. Meanwhile, I was converted to the Gospel while attending Church and making friends with some Latter-day Saints. Then when Denver Snuffer and people on this forum started publicly attacking the LDS General Authorities, I knew they were wrong, and I couldn't remain in hiding any longer. I chose to champion the Brethren because nobody else seemed to be doing so at the time. After all, the local Brethren in my ward had been extremely kind to me during my recovery, and they didn't deserve the kinds of attacks that they were indirectly receiving here on LDS Freedom Forum.

After I accomplished that mission to my satisfaction, and as my testimony grew, I realized that I actually wanted to engage in some of the Gospel Discussions here on this forum; and, I thought it was insincere and disingenuous to do it anonymously, so I created an account under my own name, with the intention of letting the MegaManToo account and the Denver Snuffer issue just simply die. And, it was all dead for me for about a month, until people started resurrecting it again and commenting on what I had written as MegaManToo.

I have re-engaged to provide the clarification that I have been asked to provide, but I keep stating my intention to withdraw from the Denver Snuffer debate, which I still intend to do. I want to let Denver Snuffer and MegaManToo die. Over and over again, I keep saying that my intention is to just fade away into the sunset.

Meanwhile, the new convert to the LDS Church continues to function under his own name, which is the way that I now believe that it should be. I'm no longer hiding from the Latter-day Saints like I was a couple of years ago when I signed up as MegaManToo.

Darwin Bagley
MegaManToo

--

BrianM told me that he was fine with people having more than one user account on LDS Freedom Forum.

[Epistemology]

there is some truth to your post Megabag, from the link to the other site, but I think you have exaggerated a bit too. But I think some points you made needed said.

[BagleyDarwin]

MegaBag or MegaDrag has added some new messages to his old blog:

http://megasatire.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It felt like it was time to do so.

[JaredAlmond]

BD, just read your blog. Why are you lying? This is disappointing and I just lost a lot of respect for your integrity man.

[TannerG]

"once I am a member of the Church of the Firstborn, then I will no longer need my LDS Ordinances, my LDS Temple Covenants, the LDS Church, or the LDS General Authorities."

Dallin H Oaks said this at conference! It's also in the scriptures (Ephesians 4:11-14).
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Organized religion, established by divine authority, is essential, as the Apostle Paul taught:

“For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:12–13).

:ymparty:Hallelujah!! :ymparty:

Whoah! Never thought of this verse like that before! I had always used it on the mission to convince people we needed prophets and apostles. That's still valid, but there really is so much more. Wow! Thanks for pointing that out to me.

[BagleyDarwin]

BD, just read your blog. Why are you lying? This is disappointing and I just lost a lot of respect for your integrity man.

Guilty as charged.

My default writing style has always been satire. If you look up satire, you see that it uses exaggeration or the contrast of extremes to accomplish its goals. Some would call that lying or deception. I didn't know what a straw-man was at the time when I started posting here, but some have told me that I create lots of straw-men. Looked that up, and they seem to be right. It's part of satire.

Eventually, I came to realize that satire might not be the best way to present and discuss Gospel Subjects. I decided to try to repent and change, since I was already a great sinner and was in the process of trying to repent or change anyway.

So, I started over under my own name. I have now been trying to learn a new and different way of doing things. Instead of using satire and humor, I have been striving more to just simply present the facts. My posts are a lot more boring and put a lot more people to sleep, but the new writing style is more sincere and genuine. I don't laugh as much as I used to. I have been trying to remake myself. It has been a growing process.

I don't know if I am getting any better at it or not. You will have to look at my more recent posts and judge for yourself.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34268" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think if you look carefully, you might notice a couple of changes and a few improvements; but, maybe not. I don't know. I do know that my most recent posts are a lot less humorous and a lot more boring. I don't know if some people would consider that to be an improvement or not. At least they seem to be a little less contentious and less controversial.

[TannerG]

I have this weird thing that I love when people are gutsy, even if it is against me. For example, I love when I'm crossing the street and a car cuts me off. I don't know why it makes me happy. I just love to see people be bold. Maybe I'm psychotic. Who knows.

Anyway, you (BagleyDarwin) bring out that reaction in me. I don't necessarily agree with what you say, but your bold, critical style makes me giddy. Yeah, I'm definitely crazy.

Anyway, I hope people will have patience with you BagleyDarwin, and you with them. Everyone is at a different point in their spiritual progression. We need to respect each other's right to seek truth the way that we feel is pleasing to God. As always, let us be charitable and understanding to those whose lives and perspectives are much different than our own.

Love and blessings

[freedomforall]

Though the writer comes off a bit reactionary, the accusations made have merit, at least from what I've encountered here.

I haven't been here long but I can see that Denver Snuffer has a number of devotees on this forum. I've also encountered the phenomena of posters who claim to have their Calling and Election or have seen Jesus Christ yet, they don't seem affiliated with the LDS church--I believe some are excommunicated or have left the church. They are dismissive of LDS ordinances and critical of the LDS church, denigrating it as a corporation and seem to think that if we sustain Pres. Monson we are following and putting faith in a man and instead should look only within our own hearts to find Christ. This attitude of not needing or wanting affiliation with the church was disconcerting to me and I've been trying to make sense of it; since reading the accusations about this 'church of the firstborn', it does seem that the writer may have hit on something.

I recall a post where someone here claimed to be a member of the church of the firstborn, which set off the red flags in my mind, since I know of a number of sects who've used that term or one similar. It sounded a bit 'cultish'. I hope I don't offend anyone, but I'm sharing my honest impressions.

Deuteronomy 19:15
15 ...: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

[notjamesbond003.5]

Interesting. It looks like Darwin... er... Megaman... er... Bagley, are promoting this article on multiple blogs:

http://ofgodandgoddesses.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://megasatire.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://allwomenordained.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It could be argued that the Goddess Jules of CofTheFB
is also an internet sleuth...

Hmmm.



njb