"If President Monson was here right now and he asked you..."

[marc]

"If President Monson was here right now and he asked you to do “a thing” would you do it?"

Here is your chance to add your name to the list of members who would or would not do "a thing" if President Monson asked you. As this is hypothetical, it stands to reason that you must be willing to do whatsoever he bade you to do. Your eternal soul is may well be on the line.

I pondered this scenario for hours and hours on end yesterday, as well as scriptural examples, or rather precedents. First, let me preface this by stating the many things, which Thomas S. Monson has asked of us. I took this from Gently Hew Stone's blog, which outline many things, which we ought to be doing. I've simplified them:

Go to the temple for themselves and the dead
Pay their tithing
Contribute to the missionary fund
Be worthy of the priesthood
Be worthy to attend the temple
Qualify for a temple recommend
Use the priesthood to bless lives
Safeguard and treasure the priesthood
Avoid pornography, bad language and addictions
Do not watch movies and TV that portray bad behavior
Read the Book of Mormon
Gain a testimony
Obey the commandments
Pray regularly
Study scripture
Attend church
Attend seminary
Repent
Get married
Be careful in the choice of a spouse
Be loyal to spouses
Respect and love wives
Make any needed repairs to marriages
Do not allow marriages to be in jeopardy
Stand above the ways of the world
Be honorable and decent
Be above reproach
Go to the temple regularly
Keep temple ordinances as a goal
Put a picture of a temple in every bedroom
Teach children about the importance of the temple
Remember covenants made in the temple
Sacrifice whatever necessary to attend the temple
Follow in the footsteps of Christ
Remember the messages from General Conference
Read and study the Conference edition of Ensign magazine
Be good citizens and neighbors
Be examples of honesty and integrity
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How many of us are already faithful home teachers? How many of us serve regularly in the temple? How many of us are worthy of entering the Lord's temple? How many of us are viewing pornography? How many of us are currently sacrificing and giving to the poor? How many of us are worthy of the priesthood we hold? How many of us are watching movies filled with sex and violence?

These are simple things, which President Monson as asked us to do or not do. We have been asked by many of our leaders for decades and decades to do things. Flood the earth with the Book of Mormon. Get out of debt. Build food storage. President Ezra T. Benson called us slothful and included ward and steak officers. We would be wiped out when America is cleansed. (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.265, 266)

But let's putt ALL of that aside. You are called in to your Stake President's office and he is asking you a hypothetical question. If President Monson asked you to do "a thing," would you do it? I imagined myself sitting in the seat, which a dear friend of mine was asked to sit in. If this was me, I would humbly ask him to bear with me as we reasoned this together. I imagine my interview going like this:

"Brother SP, if I am to answer this question outright without know what this "thing" is, I must be prepared to do anything. This includes any extreme thing. And since my eternal soul is at stake, I must be willing to lay it down. This also means, that I must also be willing and prepared to send someone else to their death." (As I pondered this scenario, it occurred to me that Brother SP could state that President Monson would never ask me to do something so extreme. Let us proceed with this assumption). "Brother SP, in your hypothetical situation, are you saying that you have the authority to declare what President Monson can and cannot ask me to do? This goes against the very thing we believe, for unless you are God, Himself, or an angel sent from God to President Monson, how could you possibly know what President Monson would ask of me or ought to ask of me? And if this the case, shouldn't we both be in this seat? But let us assume then, that you are correct since this is a hypothetical question. Let us then say that President Monson will not ask me to end a life. He would not ask anyone to send another to his death. This is too extreme! Isn't it?"

"There are two scriptural accounts, which I feel impressed to draw upon. One is about two prophets of God-one of Judah and one of Bethel. The prophet of Judah was given specific commandments directly by God. The prophet of Bethel seems to have been sent by God to test the prophet of Judah. We read about this in 1 Kings 13. Because the prophet of Judah disobeyed the Lord's direct commandment and hearkened to the other prophet of Bethel, he was slain, not by the prophet of Bethel, but by the Lord. A Lion was sent to kill the poor prophet of Judah."

26 And when the prophet (of Bethel) that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God (from Judah), who was disobedient unto the word of the Lord: therefore the Lord hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake unto him.

"The second scriptural account tells us a story of a young man, large in stature, by the name of Nephi. I have made a life long study of this man and his journey, both temporal and spiritual, which brought him back to Jesus Christ's presence. Nephi and his family were camped out in the wilderness, when Nephi was visited not once, but twice by the Lord before Lehi asked him to do "a thing." The first time was to soften his heart that he believed all his father's words. The second time was after Nephi had testified to his brothers what the Lord had done for him. As a result, the Lord's second visit to Nephi was more powerful. The first time, Nephi was visited with only the softening of his heart. The second time, after Nephi had proven himself more true and faithful, the Lord spoke to Nephi in very word, promising and endowing him with blessings."

"When Lehi approached Nephi and asked him to do "a thing," it was something that Lehi testified came directly from God."

1 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, returned from speaking with the Lord, to the tent of my father.

2 And it came to pass that he spake unto me, saying: Behold I have dreamed a dream, in the which the Lord hath commanded me that thou and thy brethren shall return to Jerusalem.

3 For behold, Laban hath the record of the Jews and also a genealogy of my forefathers, and they are engraven upon plates of brass.

4 Wherefore, the Lord hath commanded me that thou and thy brothers should go unto the house of Laban, and seek the records, and bring them down hither into the wilderness.

5 And now, behold thy brothers murmur, saying it is a hard thing which I have required of them; but behold I have not required it of them, but it is a commandment of the Lord.

6 Therefore go, my son, and thou shalt be favored of the Lord, because thou hast not murmured.

"And because Nephi had not only received a witness directly from God, but had in very deed conversed with Him through the veil, he gave his father (who, by the way, had become a prophet outside the established hierarchy) the most confident reply that could be given."

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

"Nephi had not only complete confidence in Lehi as his father, but also as a true and living prophet, seer and revelator of God. Remember that Jeremiah and other prophets had just preceded Lehi, who were also outside the established church hierarchy, the elders of the Jews, etc." (1 Ne 4:22, 27)

"Brother SP, I have never been asked to accept a calling without first being extended the calling. Why would this be any different? I would listen to President Monson and then I would take it to the Lord and pray for a confirmation. And depending on the gravity of this calling--this "thing," which President Monson would ask of me, I would ask him to kneel with me in prayer on the spot and I would pray, as I always have with faith for a witness from the Lord, and wait patiently, as I have in the past, for hours, if necessary, until my answer came."

This would be my reply. Now if this was unacceptable to the Stake President and he excommunicated me for this, I would be left to marvel at the irony that he (in this "hypothetical" setting) declared that President Monson (or any of the apostles) would never ask me to send someone to his death. Because being excommunicated in the LDS church in very deed is sending someone to his spiritual death. And he was just an instrument in the hands of someone in greater authority to do that very thing. Beyond this point, whether I am right or wrong in my belief and my loyalty only to the great Jehovah, my God and my Savior, only time would tell.

What would you do?

[Simon]

I would ask him if we could pray togethter, him offerng the prayer, and if we both received a second witness during that prayer, I would go for it.

[BroJones]

I would ask him if we could pray togethter, him offerng the prayer, and if we both received a second witness during that prayer, I would go for it.

good plan. Also, just bowing one's head (or even kneeling on the floor) and saying a prayer, right there on the spot, is something I've thought of doing -- whatever the SP's question might be.

Coachm - interesting that your list leaves out having food storage, and getting out of debt.
President Monson said famously (I'll paraphrase for now): We are asked to get out of debt and have a year's supply of food. Unfortunately many saints follow that counsel in reverse - they have no food reserve yet have a year's supply of debt!
(If anyone can provide the exact quote, would appreciate it.)

[marc]

Dr. Jones, thank you for mentioning food storage and getting out of debt. I wouldn't be surprised if I left out more things on the list (which isn't my list, but a list from the blog linked), but I did mention them afterward in my post as other leaders have asked us to do many things.

[BroJones]

Yes, I see that you did now - thanks. Also, you noted Pres. Benson's warning counsel, which is most interesting in light of this discussion... I'll leave it at that for now.

[Rick Grimes]

Glad to that you would not just agree without praying for a spiritual confirmation first. #:-s Too many would just ignorantly comply because they believe in infallibility for our church leaders. @-) Warren Jeff's, David Koresh, Charles Manson, etc.. all had blind obedience from their followers, look what it got them.

[RyanK]

(If anyone can provide the exact quote, would appreciate it.)

Here ya go, Dr. Jones (and all)...

“Many more people could ride out the storm-tossed waves in their economic lives if they had their… supply of food… and were debt-free. Today we find that many have followed this counsel in reverse: they have at least a year’s supply of debt and are food-free.”

President Thomas S. Monson, “That Noble Gift—Love at Home,” Church News, May 12, 2001, 7

[ajax]

"If President Monson was here right now and he asked you to do “a thing” would you do it?"

No. Why should I?

[Simon]

"If President Monson was here right now and he asked you to do “a thing” would you do it?"

No. Why should I?

He may ask you about your funny shaped head

[marc]

Almost 200 views and so few replies. How can people be so ready to jump all over Brent's excommunication topic, confidently state their opinions, yet avoid this topic? Where is your confidence? Maybe I'm just being presumptuous.

[ebenezerarise]

It's a silly premise, Marc.

Are you saying, just because he is President of the Church, that we would do something just because of that? You don't even say what he would ask.

Frankly speaking, if he said "pass the salt", I would do it. If he asked me to kick the dog, I would not.

See what I'm saying?

If you're talking more serious -- say, for example, if he were to extend a call to something, I would have to pray about it.

What is the point of this thread? To find out how many of us are blind followers?

[BrentL]

I didnt reply yet because I was thinking how much easier it would be to just have to answer this here, on this forum, with no time constraints and your "eternal salvation" hanging in the balance while you sit in a little chair that puts you below the 15 men that sit in judgement on you sitting around a huge table and trying to honor them and the lord at the same time and also not be the least ashamed for things of Christ and not to say things that would condemn them. looses some of the angst here.

I did say "you mean like jump off a cliff?" becasuse I always think what is the logical conclusion of this train of thought, and btw, my wife hates that... she says I always go for the "nuclear' option.

I think instead of saying "you man like jump off a cliff" I should have said "what if "the thing" he asked was for me to sacrafice you? or your children? would you bare your chest or present your child? what if he asked YOU to kill me? what if I did not want to die? isnt the "what if" game fun?

but I think you hit the nail on the head when you realized they asked the question with preconceived notions, such as "he would never ask that" or what god would ask and what god would answer so if any answer is outside of that paradigm, that is really where the problem is, and proof you are in apostasy.

you cant even debate that argument.

lol, I also said Denver has said he would not start a church and did not want any followers, and the SP INTERRUPTED me to say that was just one of his most clever deceptions.... i mean, where do you go from there?

[Jeremy]

Almost 200 views and so few replies.

I didn't read the thread aside from the subject title and the quote below.

"If President Monson was here right now and he asked you to do “a thing” would you do it?"

Assuming that is the gist of the post, I might. Depends what it was. If the request was meant to be granted because of his office, no. I would politely inform the president that I will pray about it. If the request was made out of curiosity or desire, like "would you have a glass of water I can have", I would ask if he wanted ice with it.

[AGStacker]

My thought process is this: If I had to "follow" a particular prophet, either Joseph or Monson, I'd choose Joseph. He told us he saw God, Christ, angels and performed many miracles. He brought us the Book of Mormon and other scripture. What the Church teaches today is different than what Joseph taught. I am reverting to what Joseph taught. It is liberating but at the same time I was very comfortable in my shell of carnal security with following President Monson. It was much easier.

[ajax]

"pray about it, pray about it"...yeah yeah yeah.

But what if after praying the "personal line" conflicts with the "priesthood line"? Now things get interesting.

[marc]

It's a silly premise, Marc.

Are you saying, just because he is President of the Church, that we would do something just because of that? You don't even say what he would ask.

Frankly speaking, if he said "pass the salt", I would do it. If he asked me to kick the dog, I would not.

See what I'm saying?

If you're talking more serious -- say, for example, if he were to extend a call to something, I would have to pray about it.

What is the point of this thread? To find out how many of us are blind followers?

Brent, thank you for chiming in. You saw exactly why I started this discussion and the hypotheticals, which you were presented with are exactly what went through my mind as I pondered your situation. The fact that you replied thus only verifies why my mind was so troubled.

E-arise, hardly silly. And you made my point exactly. I did not say exactly what he would ask. This actually did happen. and Brent seems to have been excommunicated for giving the wrong answer.

[Jeremy]

But what if after praying the "personal line" conflicts with the "priesthood line"? Now things get interesting.

My personal line is my priesthood line.

If I begin to give into a conflict because such and such a person has "authority" and I do not, then I begin to deny the connection with heaven that I have. Thus damning myself. I have placed my trust in the arm of flesh and denied the very thing that should have been the source that testified the man was a prophet to begin with. If I trusted it then, I should trust it now. And if I do not trust it now... then why place trust in a man who gained my trust through a faulty connection?

[Franktalk]

Truth is truth no matter who states it. If I were told to do something that is in the scriptures and prompted by the Holy Spirit I would indeed do it. But if I told Monson to be obedient to the scriptures I would expect him to be obedient. The reference is not me and not Monson. It is the truth of the third party.

[ajax]

E-arise, hardly silly. And you made my point exactly. I did not say exactly what he would ask. This actually did happen. and Brent seems to have been excommunicated for giving the wrong answer.

Ahh, I get your point now coach. I had forgotten Brent was actually asked this and gave a "wrong" answer. That's some weak sauce.

[marc]

It also helps if one actually reads my entire OP.

[ajax]

It also helps if one actually reads my entire OP.

I did. But since you didn't specifically mention Brent's name in the OP and left it up to me to add 2+2, I was doomed.

I still stick with my first answer:

No. Why should I?

[Jeremy]

It also helps if one actually reads my entire OP.

I hear you coach. lol

[marc]

I did. But since you didn't specifically mention Brent's name in the OP and left it up to me to add 2+2, I was doomed.

I purposefully left out Brent's experience. That's the point. Each member must add 2+2 for himself.

[ajax]

Each member must add 2+2 for himself.

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[Jeremy]

That's the point. Each member must add 2+2 for himself.

You have excluded the sisters?! Jules will be happy for that.