The Baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost

[log]

My assumption is that the reader has already been baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and believes the gospel, including the need to repent of all one's sins.  This is the process wherein we become sanctified through the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost.  While I have presented it as a list, in reality it is a contiguous, compact experience, just as baptism by water is.

1. We repent - we lay aside all sin and every worldly lust, and focus wholly upon God, obeying every commandment that we can with all our might, mind, and strength.  We discover that we cannot overcome our carnal nature, and cannot keep all the commandments, by any exercise of strength or willpower, which leads us to the next step.
2. We push past our fears, inadequacies, and unworthiness, and call upon God in mighty prayer, with all the energy and strength of our souls, without ceasing until we receive, in the name of Christ, for one or more of the following:
            a. forgiveness of our sins.
            b. to be made clean.
            c. the Spirit.
            d. to know the will of God.
            e. to receive charity.
            f. to receive faith.
3. Godly sorrow for sin is borne to our souls by the Spirit, wherein we sorrow for the sins of the world.
4. A covenant of obedience is impressed upon our soul by the Spirit.  The covenant is different for each individual.  This covenant is what baptism is supposed to be a public witness of.
5. Jesus Christ makes intercession by praying with and for us unto the Father; we recognize his presence and feel his words in our heart as he does so.
6. The Holy Ghost enters into our heart as by fire.  The fire feels as though the rumbling, roaring energy from a mighty waterfall surrounds our heart, and it is without heat.
7. The fires of the Spirit begin to purify and cleanse our heart and soul.
8. The bands of death and chains of hell are loosed, or burst, or broken, from around our heart and soul.  It feels at this time like one's heart is being forced through a hole that is too small for it, and it is almost painful, until the bands are shattered and crumble away from our heart.  It is a real thing that is sensible and recognizable when it happens: you know your sins, manifested as those bands, have been burned from your heart.  I believe this also is what is meant by being circumcised of heart.
9. Our souls fill to capacity with joy and glory such that our heart feels as though we will explode from the joy and glory if it doesn't stop, then our soul expands to receive it all.
10. We are born again, that all things become new unto us; it literally feels as though we are seeing everything for the first time.  We are our true selves, what we were before we came here.  This is the mighty change of heart, that we are made utterly innocent, having our natures changed from evil to good, that we are converted unto the Lord, and have literally got no more desire to do evil, but to do good continually.  Your flesh no longer wars against your spirit.
11. Father testifies to us.  This testimony is specific to the individual.
12. Our prayers are answered as we pray them.
13. We are filled with light and perfect love so long as one is diligent unto prayer and good works, keeping all the commandments.
14. We continually receive revelations, are one with the Godhead, and commune with Father and Christ, on the same conditions.

This is how we take upon us the name of Christ, become perfect, become saints (which means "sanctified ones"), are made alive in Christ ("quickened in the inner man"), and become the children of God.  This is how we progress from belief in Christ to having faith in him.  This is what it means to be reconciled to God.  This is what Paul meant by "saved".  The Holy Ghost, which we have received through the baptism by fire, is the "unction" (anointing) from Christ which teaches us all things, that we need not any man should teach us.

Ofttimes, on experiencing this, the recipient wishes to die and so dwell with God.  The recipient also typically desires their family likewise partake.  It should be noted that the fruit of the tree of life, being the greatest of all the gifts of God, is charity (and not salvation in the Celestial Kingdom in this context); partaking of the fruit then is the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost, wherein we are filled with perfect love.

Incidentally, the Holy Ghost in his role as the minister of heavenly fire is the Holy Spirit of Promise (1 John 3:9 footnote b; Ephesians 1:13).  By this sign can you know if any of your ordinances or covenants have been ratified by heaven.

[Original_Intent]

As I stated elsewhere, my experience did not follow your outline.
A good deal of what you have written, I believe, goes beyond the BFHG and is talking about other steps such as having your calling and election made sure and receiving the 2nd and 3rd comforters.
For me, steps 1-4 did occur in one concrete experience. Then over the almost thirty years since then, I have had bits and pieces of some of the other experiences that you have listed, not in the order you have listed them.
Item 6 in your list not only makes no sense to me, but it does not match my experience. What do you mean "like fire, but without heat"? To me this is like saying "Like water, but without wetness". Also the roaring waterfall surrounding our hearts - was that your experience? Or are you basing it upon the scripture that you hyper-linked with waterfall? I don't read that scripture the way you do, so I am guessing your experience caused you to read it the way that you did.

Anyway, interesting thoughts. I disagree that everything on your list occurs as a contiguous, compact experience, unless you are using the perspective of a lifetime as such. Perhaps you received everything on the list at once, I could certainly see it happen that way, and if so you are certainly blessed. It doesn't match the process I have been and continue to go through.

[Jake]

Log, I agree with OI. Some of what you describe is beyond the scope of the BFHG. That being said, perhaps for some all of these things happen at once. Reading through the list, I remember my experience with the BFHG and it encompassed (more or less) items 1-10.

But you are correct in stating that a true BFHG is a specific event. The intensity and nature of the experience will vary by the individual. My wife had a BFHG experience that was far less intense than mine; nevertheless she can identify when it happened.

Thanks for bringing this up. The BFHG is the key to obtaining greater things from heaven. It is the gate by which we enter into the strait and narrow path. I mourn when I hear of people who believe that the baptism of water is all that is needed. Even the gospel doctrine lesson manual put forth by the church states that the BFHG is the same thing as a man laying hands on your head and saying, Receive the Holy Ghost.

[Original_Intent]

VFD,

I am curious about your experience with step 6.

6. The Holy Ghost enters into our heart as by fire. The fire feels as though the rumbling, roaring energy from a mighty waterfall surrounds our heart, and it is without heat.

I can relate to the first sentence, but for me it was not at all like log describes it in the 2nd sentence. Since you have experienced 1-10, I was wondering if you could share what you experienced?

Thank you in advance if you can, and I understand if you can't.

[log]

Remember - all blessings are predicated upon obedience to the laws which govern them. I have written this to the intent of helping persons who have not received that they may know the path to this blessing.

If you want this experience, then cast aside all the world's hooks in your heart, all your vain ambitions, your vain hobbies, your vain worries, all your idols, all your sins, and dedicate yourself to the Lord in all things, and ask for this blessing in mighty prayer.

It is not cheaply bought; it requires your whole heart and soul.

And don't dispute because you haven't received. If you believe all things are possible unto God, and that everything you ask for in faith shall be granted, then ask for it.

Deny not the gifts of God, but rather seek them, keeping all his commandments. (3 Nephi 12-15)

[Jake]

VFD,

I am curious about your experience with step 6.

6. The Holy Ghost enters into our heart as by fire. The fire feels as though the rumbling, roaring energy from a mighty waterfall surrounds our heart, and it is without heat.

I can relate to the first sentence, but for me it was not at all like log describes it in the 2nd sentence. Since you have experienced 1-10, I was wondering if you could share what you experienced?

Thank you in advance if you can, and I understand if you can't.

I'm willing to share. I have felt a drive from the Spirit to share about the BFHG whenever possible.

It is hard to put into words. I agree with #6 on log's list except I certainly felt physical heat. It was truly a burning, beyond anything I can adequately describe. And his description of a waterfall is spot on. A BIG waterfall.

Edited to add - PM me if you want more details. A couple of others have asked about it as well and I can send you a copy of what I sent to them. I have shared some of my experience in several posts on LDSFF, but I have a few more personal details I will share one on one.

[rproe67]

What an amazing experience! Though I do recognize the promptings of the Holy Ghost, I don't think I've experienced BFHG. I asked my mom if she experienced it, she said, "Of course, everyone who's been baptized has!" :-\

I was born and raised in the church, but it hasn't been until this last year that something has happened to me. What a blessing the callings in the church have been to me. All have prepared me for what I face TODAY, all have made me who I am. I KNOW the Lord hears my prayers, that I want to know Him, He has answered my pleas and He continues to give me opportunities to grow. My love for the Savior has grown immensely as I've studied the scriptures; there is nothing so fulfilling and sweet as following the Lord, wanting to know him, to feel for Him. I am by no means perfect, but it's strange, this past spring, I stopped wanting to watch movies, read beauty magazines, or even shopping for "things". This has been difficult for my family to understand, I'm trying to find balance. It's crazy, I'm not concerned about the way I look. I had self esteem problems, I never believed in myself, I'm trying to see everyone and even myself with the eyes of the Lord! I want to give ALL of my will to Him.

I'm not sure when I'll experience BFHG. There are times that I feel that I'm almost "there", but I will be patient because the Lord knows when the time is right, He knows what is best for each of us! I have so much to learn...

[log]

I'm trying to express that the fires are without caloric heat. No "Raiders of the Lost Ark"-esque combustions.

Helaman 5:44
44 And Nephi and Lehi were in the midst of them; yea, they were encircled about; yea, they were as if in the midst of a flaming fire, yet it did harm them not, neither did it take hold upon the walls of the prison; and they were filled with that joy which is unspeakable and full of glory.

[Original_Intent]

Of course there isn't heat in that sense - but there is a sensation of heat, at least for me.

[log]

I know that justification, or the remission of sins, carries with it a burning in the busom, and a perpetual warmth so long as we retain it, and that can (or does) overlap with the BFHG.

[SkyBird]

What an amazing experience! Though I do recognize the promptings of the Holy Ghost, I don't think I've experienced BFHG. I asked my mom if she experienced it, she said, "Of course, everyone who's been baptized has!" :-\

I was born and raised in the church, but it hasn't been until this last year that something has happened to me. What a blessing the callings in the church have been to me. All have prepared me for what I face TODAY, all have made me who I am. I KNOW the Lord hears my prayers, that I want to know Him, He has answered my pleas and He continues to give me opportunities to grow. My love for the Savior has grown immensely as I've studied the scriptures; there is nothing so fulfilling and sweet as following the Lord, wanting to know him, to feel for Him. I am by no means perfect, but it's strange, this past spring, I stopped wanting to watch movies, read beauty magazines, or even shopping for "things". This has been difficult for my family to understand, I'm trying to find balance. It's crazy, I'm not concerned about the way I look. I had self esteem problems, I never believed in myself, I'm trying to see everyone and even myself with the eyes of the Lord! I want to give ALL of my will to Him.

I'm not sure when I'll experience BFHG. There are times that I feel that I'm almost "there", but I will be patient because the Lord knows when the time is right, He knows what is best for each of us! I have so much to learn...

Sounds like the process it already taking place in your life!

[inquirringmind]

The fire feels as though the rumbling, roaring energy from a mighty waterfall surrounds our heart, and it is without heat.

Water can be warm and soothing, or cool and refreshing.

Does this "waterfall" feel warm or cool?

[log]

The fire feels as though the rumbling, roaring energy from a mighty waterfall surrounds our heart, and it is without heat.

Water can be warm and soothing, or cool and refreshing.

Does this "waterfall" feel warm or cool?

Neither.

[inquirringmind]

So it's more like the pounding or rhythm of a waterfall than a temperature?

[log]

I really can't put it plainer than I did. This is one of those things which must be experienced to be understood... therefore please, please, please, do steps 1 and 2.

[log]

I would probably say things differently if I were to set about re-writing this today, but, as the saying goes, it's close enough for government work.

[Sirocco]

My assumption is that the reader has already been baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and believes the gospel, including the need to repent of all one's sins.

am not, believe in what way, no...
I won't go into huge detail about what I think about the idea of sin, but it won't line up with yours.
Why am I here then? Well learn wisdom from you folks, I never had religion, so was curious if I was missing out on anything growing up.

[diligently seeking]

Log, I could not make sense of you with my limited exposure to your posts on tim malone's forum. Your inspired words are wonderful to me here. Also, very much enjoyed your post on why our interactions with each other should not be corrupted by the least degree of contention/having ones heart stired up. I bear wittness that seeing Christ's face and knowing that he is" can be obtained through what you have outlined in this post. Love and gratitude, JaredB

[deep water]

For a proper description of the ordnance of Baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, look At Isaiah Chapter 1 verse 6.

6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

The book of Isaiah is about two different type of people. Those who are clean and those who are not. Verse 6 starts out with "From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it;" When you are baptized by water, do you not walk into the water from the sole of your foot, even to your head, where you are put completely under the water?
Joesph Smith said " you might as well baptize a bag of sand as a man, for the baptism of water is of NO value without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost." So you are still wounded, and still have putrifying sores after you are Baptized in water. For your sins are still intact, they have NOT been closed, NEITHER bound up, NEITHER mollified with ointment. As I have stated before, you walk into the water starting with the sole of your feet.
Now lets look at the Baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost. A dove came down from heaven, the spirit fell upon Joesph and Oliver, the Baptism of fire comes from the heavens, it starts at the crown of your head and slowly descends, purifying your body of wounds, sores, and bruises until it fills your whole body, clear to, and including your soles. Closing and bounding up and mollifying with the ointment of the Atonement. The Baptism of Fire is a complete immersion in the spirit, from top to bottom. Just as the water baptism was a complete immersion in water from bottom to top. No place, inside or outside, will be left untouched.

[deep water]

Another addition to Isaiah ch 1 v 6; after you have been baptized by fire, the Holy Ghost enters and gives you revelation, and or prophecy. You will receive these gifts and they will attend to you through your righteous life. Joesph Smith said " No man can receive the holy ghost without receiving revelations. The holy ghost is a revelator." TOPJ.S. page 328
Also as to "our" righteousness on page 328 JS said; "I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God of Israel, anguish and wrath and tribulation and the withdrawing of the spirit of God from the earth await this generation, until they are visited with utter desolation. This generation is AS corrupt as the generation of the Jews that crucified Christ; and if He were here today, and should preach the same doctrine He did then, they would put him to death. I defy all the world to destroy the work of God; and I prophecy that they never will have power to kill me til my work is accomplished, and I am ready to die." If the spirit of God was withdrawn in that generation following JS, wouldn't it need to be restored, received, retrieved?
Many times I have read the Doctrine of Christ preached here on this forum. Many times I have witnessed rebellion to Christs Gospel in favor of a strange Doctrine. Read 3 Nephi ch 11 and ask yourself, why is Christs Gospel Doctrine different than the one preached in the large and spacious building some attend religiously, every Sunday.
Did not Christ say "IF YOU ARE NOT ONE, THEN YOU ARE NOT MINE". Are the words of Christ and Joesph Smith taken together, Gospel enough for all?

[inquirringmind]

I was Christened as an infant and baptised in water by ministers of Herbert W. Armstrong's World Wide Church of God when I was about 18, and a few decades later by a minister of The Church of Christ.

And I once went to see a spiritual adviser (palm reader), who told me to go home and perform a cleansing ritual that reminded me of baptism.

I don't think I really believed in God at the time, I was sick with grief, I wanted to die, and I had no real love for anyone still living on earth.

This spiritual advisor claimed to be a believer in Christ, and she told me to take a bath, and ask God to cleanse me.

I think she said to go under the water, asking God to "make me clean."

And that's what I did that night.

I sleep in the hospital bed my mom used to use, across the room from the one my handicapped dad uses.

I promised my mom that if she had to leave us when she did I'd try to go on without her, and take care of dad, and wait for God to call me, but I didn't really want to go on, and I didn't really want to take care of him the way I took care of her (he had a stroke three months after she left, and was partially paralysed now.)

I don't remember feeling anything different that night, but when I woke up the next morning and looked over at dad, I felt love for him.

For the first time I felt I wanted to go on, and take care of him the way I took care of her, if I could (and if I could only know that is a God, and that He is taking care of her.)

That feeling didn't last very long, because I found myself thinking there must be some psychological reason for what I was feeling, and I told myself (or someone told me) that the only reason I wanted to believe in God was because it would give me some excuse to hang on to my worthless life.

I don't remember any feeling of warmth (in the sense of some physical sensation) but there was a definite feeling of love I hadn't felt in a long time.

The feeling of love I felt toward my father lasted just long enough for me to remember it, and then it was gone.

I still don't think I really believed in God at the time, and I explained it away as some psychological trick I was playing on myself to avoid doing what I thought of as "the honourable thing" (something I ended up attempting as soon as there was someone else in the house to look after dad.)

But could that have been the baptism of Fire?

[Zathura]

My assumption is that the reader has already been baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and believes the gospel, including the need to repent of all one's sins.  This is the process wherein we become sanctified through the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost.  While I have presented it as a list, in reality it is a contiguous, compact experience, just as baptism by water is.

1. We repent - we lay aside all sin and every worldly lust, and focus wholly upon God, obeying every commandment that we can with all our might, mind, and strength.  We discover that we cannot overcome our carnal nature, and cannot keep all the commandments, by any exercise of strength or willpower, which leads us to the next step.
2. We push past our fears, inadequacies, and unworthiness, and call upon God in mighty prayer, with all the energy and strength of our souls, without ceasing until we receive, in the name of Christ, for one or more of the following:
            a. forgiveness of our sins.
            b. to be made clean.
            c. the Spirit.
            d. to know the will of God.
            e. to receive charity.
            f. to receive faith.
3. Godly sorrow for sin is borne to our souls by the Spirit, wherein we sorrow for the sins of the world.
4. A covenant of obedience is impressed upon our soul by the Spirit.  The covenant is different for each individual.  This covenant is what baptism is supposed to be a public witness of.
5. Jesus Christ makes intercession by praying with and for us unto the Father; we recognize his presence and feel his words in our heart as he does so.
6. The Holy Ghost enters into our heart as by fire.  The fire feels as though the rumbling, roaring energy from a mighty waterfall surrounds our heart, and it is without heat.
7. The fires of the Spirit begin to purify and cleanse our heart and soul.
8. The bands of death and chains of hell are loosed, or burst, or broken, from around our heart and soul.  It feels at this time like one's heart is being forced through a hole that is too small for it, and it is almost painful, until the bands are shattered and crumble away from our heart.  It is a real thing that is sensible and recognizable when it happens: you know your sins, manifested as those bands, have been burned from your heart.  I believe this also is what is meant by being circumcised of heart.
9. Our souls fill to capacity with joy and glory such that our heart feels as though we will explode from the joy and glory if it doesn't stop, then our soul expands to receive it all.
10. We are born again, that all things become new unto us; it literally feels as though we are seeing everything for the first time.  We are our true selves, what we were before we came here.  This is the mighty change of heart, that we are made utterly innocent, having our natures changed from evil to good, that we are converted unto the Lord, and have literally got no more desire to do evil, but to do good continually.  Your flesh no longer wars against your spirit.
11. Father testifies to us.  This testimony is specific to the individual.
12. Our prayers are answered as we pray them.
13. We are filled with light and perfect love so long as one is diligent unto prayer and good works, keeping all the commandments.
14. We continually receive revelations, are one with the Godhead, and commune with Father and Christ, on the same conditions.

This is how we take upon us the name of Christ, become perfect, become saints (which means "sanctified ones"), are made alive in Christ ("quickened in the inner man"), and become the children of God.  This is how we progress from belief in Christ to having faith in him.  This is what it means to be reconciled to God.  This is what Paul meant by "saved".  The Holy Ghost, which we have received through the baptism by fire, is the "unction" (anointing) from Christ which teaches us all things, that we need not any man should teach us.

Ofttimes, on experiencing this, the recipient wishes to die and so dwell with God.  The recipient also typically desires their family likewise partake.  It should be noted that the fruit of the tree of life, being the greatest of all the gifts of God, is charity (and not salvation in the Celestial Kingdom in this context); partaking of the fruit then is the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost, wherein we are filled with perfect love.

Incidentally, the Holy Ghost in his role as the minister of heavenly fire is the Holy Spirit of Promise (1 John 3:9 footnote b; Ephesians 1:13).  By this sign can you know if any of your ordinances or covenants have been ratified by heaven.

wow. this post, this is the one that broke through my blindness and helped me realize what i had previously experienced. all these years later and i just ran into it.. goodness.i didn’t know it was log either. it’s funny that i later got into heated debates with his new username on this topic later on.. good times. God bless you log, wherever you are.

[Jesef]

Log is in the Denver-Snuffer/Preserve-the-Restoration/Remnant movement - creating discord, from the looks of it.

[Zathura]

Log is in the Denver-Snuffer/Preserve-the-Restoration/Remnant movement - creating discord, from the looks of it.

Sounds about right

Edit: ^ that’s what happens when you use phone emojis apparently