Are you saying there is no place for a sincere grievance to be communicated?freedomforall wrote:In attempting to justify causing discord, calling them grievances...this is a poor excuse for dismissing truth from scripture.
So you whole heartedly advocate judging matters presumptuously?freedomforall wrote:I disagree whole heartedly with your so called clarification tactic and invite you to read the words and open your eyes to what Christ says on the matter.
What words of Christ advocate being presumptuous?
The best example I recall of those who are presumptuous are the fallen "sons of God" spoken of in Jude and 2 Peter chapter 2. It says they would speak evil of things they do not understand. It calls them spots in your feasts of charity. God wasn't at all happy with these unfortunate souls.
I agree with this but I'm at a loss to see how this is relevant to our exchange here.freedomforall wrote:Self aggrandizement is not becoming and justification for wrong doing is of the devil.
The communicating of a grievance that is sincere and that seeks to bring about repentance does not qualify in the Lord's eyes as causing contention or disputation. The contention and disputation enters in when someone reacts to it in a prideful manner and is angered by it. For example, was Samuel the Lamanite evil for stirring up contention among the Nephites. He deserved to have their arrows shot at him?freedomforall wrote:This is nothing but contention and causing disputations, clearly a infraction of scriptural counsel.
God also encourages all who have petitions for the redress of grievances to communicate them.freedomforall wrote:Speaking of grievances, this is mine.
Eloquent speech does not justify wrong doing. God says he hates discord. Does he lie?
God also says if you have been warned, it is your duty to warn your neighbor as well.
God says if you don't warn your neighbor of their iniquities then your garments will be spotted with their blood.
God gives teachers in the Aaronic priesthood duties that require them to intervene and communicate if there is iniquity in the church, or other evils.
Whenever someone is acting with pure intentions and honesty and sincerity and their aim is to preach repentance, etc. then the Lord smiles upon this. What the Lord does not smile upon is when in the face of these people acting fully within their rights and duties they are responded to with stiff-necks, gainsaying and hard hearts. It is the wicked who inject the contention instead of listening, getting clarity and first looking to see if there actually is a mote in their eye someone is trying to help them with. Why turn down someone's time and attention to help you on your path?
It was Elder McKonkie who was quoted as saying those who believe Brigham Young's teaching about Adam would burn in hell, or something of that sort, was fear-mongering.freedomforall wrote:You've already called Pres Packer a fear monger.
I simply called it what it was because it was not backed up by any other light and truth.freedomforall wrote:What justification do you have for this evil?
If someone is going to make a very bold claim as was done, they really owe it to the reader to substantiate their claim.freedomforall wrote:Or is this another one of your so-called grievances?
I do not take kindly to the "it is this way because I say so" mentality.
This attitude most definitely grieves me, and all the more so when it comes from our leaders.