Hugh Nibley believed in Adam-God Doctrine

[iamse7en]

Or so is the speculation... I had wondered this before, because there have been rumors floating around. People claiming to know people who heard directly from Hugh that he believed in it.

Dan Peterson asked him directly about it:

I tried to talk to Hugh about some of those things, and he would not do it. Later on, maybe he would've spoken to me about it, but this was one [Adam-God] I was fairly junior in. I remember I had him once in the car, driving him to a fireside, I had driven him up and back from a fireside up past the point of the mountain. And I wanted to talk to him about Adam-God. I knew he had some opinions on it. He just said uh, "Well, I made a covenant with the Lord that I wouldn't discuss that with anybody, and I'm not going to." His wife was saying, "Oh come on Hugh, tell him something about what you think." "No." [Then he changed the subject.] He wasn't going to talk about it. And he didn't. So, I always regretted that, because I had him for fully two hours, by himself, trapped, and I couldn't get anything out of him. But on the other hand, I admire him for that. He was serious about it. There were some things he thought he knew and understood that he was not going to talk about. (Daniel C. Peterson, Mormon Stories 273, 32:00)

So did Boyd Petersen (a son-in-law and author of his biography):

I never heard him say, "I believe in the Adam-God doctrine," but it occurred to me when I was a student at BYU; I was fresh [off] from a mission, newly married, and really zealous about the Church. He had written all this stuff, apologetic, defending the faith, and I thought, why hasn't he addressed that issue [Adam-God]! So I asked him, I said, "why haven't you talked about that! The anti-Mormons get us on that all the time," and he said … "I don't talk about that." So, the implication to me was that he probably believed in it. He never confessed it. But he also said in several of his Brigham Young writings that he felt like Brigham Young was a better theologian than he's been credit for. So … my gut feeling is that he had very strong sympathies for that theology. (Boyd Petersen, Mormon Matters 187, 1:07:00)

Putting two and two together makes me think he certainly did believe in the doctrine. He certainly was a big fan of Brother Brigham and was well acquainted with his theology. This is not a big deal of course, but interesting food for thought.

[Silas]

Ogden Kraut's son tells a story about a conversation that he had with Hugh Nibley that touches on this. Food for thought.
hmmm can't seem embed the video, here is the link anyhow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9v_8_qrlm4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TZONE]

I have read some of his stuff and seen phrases or sentences that hint at the very doctrine itself without even mentioning BY or adam-god. I as well think he believed in many parts of it, if not all.

[Joel]

Maybe if Joseph Smith didn't get killed he would have had a chance to reveal it publically, maybe he had shared such teachings with a few people (maybe not). Joseph Smith practiced polygamy years before he taught about it in the 1840s. Joseph Smith, kept secret the restoration of priesthood for years before making the claim about an angelic visitation giving it to him years before.

[abelchirino]

What exactly is the adam-god doctrine? I just want a quick summary not a link to another page or thread.

I have an understanding on it but would like y'alls take on it.

[Jalden]

For what it's worth, my father went to BYU, and had some classes from Hugh. He was there when Bruce McConkie have his famous talk, The Seven Deadly Heresies (look it up).

After McConkie's speech, one of the class members asked Hugh what he thought about the speech. My dad reports that Hugh got a disgusted look on his face, and muttered, "They are no heresies." That was the end of it.

Peace.

[boo]

I will show my age here but I also took classes from Nibley at BYU including a class on Early Christian Liturgy . In addition he subsequently became a friend of my family and had dinner on multiple occasions in my parents home in Florida. While he never said anything explicitly his comments in my class and his writings referring M Eliade's works,particularly on " eternal return" and more especially his book " the Myth of the Eternal Return " always hinted to me that he not only knew that BY taught it but that he believed it was fundamentally true. Those were the days when I managed to get a difficult to obtain copy of Rodney Turners BYU master thesis on the subject. The thesis demostrated that it was taught for generations in the church. This was at a time when the 12 were denouncing the idea in the strongest possible terms and denying that BY ever taught it. I was quite popular because lots of people wanted to look at Turners thesis and the BYU library restricted access to it like they did for " dirty " books.

[brlenox]

I will show my age here but I also took classes from Nibley at BYU including a class on Early Christian Liturgy . In addition he subsequently became a friend of my family and had dinner on multiple occasions in my parents home in Florida. While he never said anything explicitly his comments in my class and his writings referring M Eliade's works,particularly on " eternal return" and more especially his book " the Myth of the Eternal Return " always hinted to me that he not only knew that BY taught it but that he believed it was fundamentally true. Those were the days when I managed to get a difficult to obtain copy of Rodney Turners BYU master thesis on the subject. The thesis demostrated that it was taught for generations in the church. This was at a time when the 12 were denouncing the idea in the strongest possible terms and denying that BY ever taught it. I was quite popular because lots of people wanted to look at Turners thesis and the BYU library restricted access to it like they did for " dirty " books.

Just in case anyone else is looking for this hard to find, BYU restricted thesis, it can be downloaded from, of all places, BYU at the following link:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/co ... Z/id/25104

[boo]

I will show my age here but I also took classes from Nibley at BYU including a class on Early Christian Liturgy . In addition he subsequently became a friend of my family and had dinner on multiple occasions in my parents home in Florida. While he never said anything explicitly his comments in my class and his writings referring M Eliade's works,particularly on " eternal return" and more especially his book " the Myth of the Eternal Return " always hinted to me that he not only knew that BY taught it but that he believed it was fundamentally true. Those were the days when I managed to get a difficult to obtain copy of Rodney Turners BYU master thesis on the subject. The thesis demostrated that it was taught for generations in the church. This was at a time when the 12 were denouncing the idea in the strongest possible terms and denying that BY ever taught it. I was quite popular because lots of people wanted to look at Turners thesis and the BYU library restricted access to it like they did for " dirty " books.

Just in case anyone else is looking for this hard to find, BYU restricted thesis, it can be downloaded from, of all places, BYU at the following link:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/co ... Z/id/25104

Good things do change over 50 years. We don't hear anyone talk about this in GC any more do we ?

[Tony]

SOURCE OF ADAM-GOD THEORY. President Brigham Young is quoted as having said: "Now hear it, 0 inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days, about whom holy men have written and spoken-He is our father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do." The following shows that Brigham Young’s sermon was erroneously transcribed.

RELATIONSHIP OF ELOHIM, JEHOVAH, AND MICHAEL. If the enemies of the Church who quote this wished to be honest, they could not help seeing that President Brigham Young definitely declares that Adam is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days, which indicates definitely that Adam is not Elohim, or the God whom we worship, who is the Father of Jesus Christ.

Further, they could see that President Young declared that Adam helped to make the earth. If he helped then he was subordinate to someone who was superior. In another paragraph in that same discourse, President Young said: "It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael." Here he places Adam, or Michael, third in the list, and hence the least important of the three mentioned, and this President Young understood perfectly. We believe that Adam, known as Michael, had authority in the heavens before the world was framed. He dwelt in the presence of the Father and the Son and was subject to their direction as the scriptures plainly indicate.

STATUS OF ADAM KNOWN BY BRIGHAM YOUNG. From these passages President Brigham Young could very properly say that we are subject to Adam; that he rules over his posterity, and he gives us commandments, even as he receives commandments from Jesus Christ, who directs him in his ministry and will do so to the latest day of time. And this does not detract anything from the power, greatness, and glory of God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

Men who harp upon this saying in the discourse of President Brigham Young should know just as well as they know anything -- for it has come to their attention hundreds of times -- that Brigham Young did not confuse Adam with Jesus Christ or the Father whom he worshipped.

There is a volume published containing the saying of President Brigham Young in which his doctrine concerning the Father and the Son, and Adam's relationship to them is clearly declared in many pages. But when men desire to malign and misrepresent, such things count for nothing.

This is from one of the discourses of Brigham Young: "We are all the children of Adam and Eve, and they are the offspring of Him who dwells in the heavens, the Highest Intelligence that dwells anywhere that we have any knowledge of." Now, if he believed what some people like to interpret him as saying, then he could not say such a thing as that!

Again he said: "The greatest desire in the bosom of our Father Adam, or of his faithful children who are co-workers with God, our Father in Heaven, is to save the inhabitants of the earth" This certainly does not sound like the interpretations, erroneously credited to him, give his views in relation to the Father and the Son and Adam whom God created!

All of these statements were made by Joseph Fielding Smith, God’s prophet on the earth from 1970 to July 1972. (Doctrines of Salvation, volume 1)

[brlenox]

I will show my age here but I also took classes from Nibley at BYU including a class on Early Christian Liturgy . In addition he subsequently became a friend of my family and had dinner on multiple occasions in my parents home in Florida. While he never said anything explicitly his comments in my class and his writings referring M Eliade's works,particularly on " eternal return" and more especially his book " the Myth of the Eternal Return " always hinted to me that he not only knew that BY taught it but that he believed it was fundamentally true. Those were the days when I managed to get a difficult to obtain copy of Rodney Turners BYU master thesis on the subject. The thesis demostrated that it was taught for generations in the church. This was at a time when the 12 were denouncing the idea in the strongest possible terms and denying that BY ever taught it. I was quite popular because lots of people wanted to look at Turners thesis and the BYU library restricted access to it like they did for " dirty " books.

Just in case anyone else is looking for this hard to find, BYU restricted thesis, it can be downloaded from, of all places, BYU at the following link:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/co ... Z/id/25104

Good things do change over 50 years. We don't hear anyone talk about this in GC any more do we ?

True indeed but as many years as it has taken me to find a home for this doctrine in my own understandings, I can see why it is prudent to leave this to those who grow line upon line through their personal studies to the point that it can be properly pondered upon. I do not consider it easy doctrine in the least. Once one takes the time, it actually opens doors to all kinds of doctrines by association that seem to be different than what is commonly understood.

[2BFree]

Speaking of Hugh...here's an interesting quote from him.

Quote from Hugh Nibley: "The worst sinners, according to Jesus, are not the harlots and publicans, but the religious leaders with their insistence on proper dress and grooming, their careful observance of all the rules, their precious concern for status symbols, their strict legality, their pious patriotism... the haircut becomes the test of virtue in a world where Satan deceives and rules by appearances.”

Sorry it's not connected to the OP but felt to share it anyway.

[beneloah]

Just in case anyone else is looking for this hard to find, BYU restricted thesis, it can be downloaded from, of all places, BYU at the following link:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/co ... Z/id/25104

Very deeply interested in access to this thesis. It appears that BYU has now restricted this to only those who have access to their network. Can someone please share this here?

[brlenox]

Just in case anyone else is looking for this hard to find, BYU restricted thesis, it can be downloaded from, of all places, BYU at the following link:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/co ... Z/id/25104

Very deeply interested in access to this thesis. It appears that BYU has now restricted this to only those who have access to their network. Can someone please share this here?

Try this one now - it works to down load a PDF

http://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/view ... ontext=etd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[beneloah]

Thank you very much @brienox. This topic is actually a very faith promoting and mind expanding exercise and has only served to enhance my testimony. I also found this article especially interesting:
http://rationalfaiths.com/the-adam-god-cover-up/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The takeaway here, to me, has been that if you don't really have a testimony, I can see this really causing one trouble... BUT if you do have a testimony, it can only serve to help expand some areas of knowledge and faith. It has not even diminished my feelings for the brethren at all; instead it has enhanced my sympathy towards them as people. I'm sure there was a large degree of "freak out" with a lot of worry coming from ignorant antis on the matter. I recall that the Church is yet still preparatory and we have MUCH more to receive. Things have been framed as they have been in order to maximize acceptance and conversations so that people can progress through this path more rapidly than otherwise, but... yes, there is much to learn and we need to get to that point.

There's a lot more I could say on the topic, but all-in-all I have been greatly edified as has been a few other family members from this and the other article.

Appreciate your pointing me to that PDF! I found some other download links as well. Great stuff!