The Davidic Servant

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ShawnC
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The Davidic Servant

Post by ShawnC »

While I am in the new thread creating mood, the topic of "the one mighty and strong" was brought up one day a while back and a few ideas were offered. This is a topic that has interested me for a while and I would like to get others input on it. Please contribute if you so feel.

Shawn

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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

There are many thoughts on this if I recall, but right off I think Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by SwissMrs&Pitchfire »

The quotes that I recall said that unequivocally it would be the prophet, but may be Joseph coming back. It said that it might have been Brigham in part, but surely would have future fulfillment. Whether it will be Joseph come back, another prophet, or perhaps a prophet from outside our church, I don't know.

I think in many respects it makes sense for the one holding keys to this dispensation returning to lead the saints to Adam-Ondi-Ahmen to their deliver them up to Adam and from thence to He whose right it is.

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jbalm
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by jbalm »

Apparently, the Davidic Servant is an excommunicated guy named Sterling Allan.

Here's his site:

http://www.greaterthings.com/

blakwatch
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by blakwatch »

You mean it's not Mitt Romney?

Almost all the fundamentalists have had leaders who claimed to be the one mighty and strong, from Ervil LeBaron, to Adamm Swapp, to the Lafferty Brothers, to Harmston. I'm not sure about Tom Green, but maybe him too.

It seems to be a real common theme in their doctrine.

But there also seems to be a lot of competition for the position.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Interesting topic. At this late point in this creation, looking for the sacred patterns is a more sure way to fined the path and to see how prophesied future events will come forth.

Here is a example a sacred pattern found in every dispensation of the world. There is always four beings who are sent down, servants of Adonia and who are usually listed in the historical records or the Scriptures, to head each dispensation as a Dispensation Presidency. There is a Prophet, Priest, and King and a Witness. The world know of the three but most over look the fourth calling, as this pattern was not known to the kingdom of Judah. The Jews know to look for the three servants that come in a Dispensation... the Prophet, Priest, and King. But the fourth, the Witness, he comes as a witness of the other three. When John the Baptist came in the meridian of time, we have a record of the Jews questioning John to see if He is one of the three they knew to look for. The record is found in the testament of John 1st chapter. As you can see there is no mention of a fourth that they were looking for:

19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ [the King].
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias [the Priest]? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet [for he was a Prophet but they were asking him if he was a Dispensation Prophet]? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias [I am the witness!].
24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet [by what authority do you do ordinances if you are not one of a Dispensation Presidency]
John 1:19-25 Comments added in brackets

John the Baptist was that hidden holy portion, the forth of the Dispensation Presidency. Even in the LDS Temple, they have Peter, James, and John who come down in allegory of the Prophet, Priest, and King, but there is no mention of a fourth servant.

Here are some keys whereby one might discern a Dispensation Presidency...

The King is always an Arch Angel.
The Priest and King are always related by blood; Father Son, Brothers or Half Brothers.
The Priest and King are always taken in the same manner, translated or martyred. The next Dispensation, they will receive both... translated and then martyred.
The Prophet is militant, and upon him is the church established.
The Prophet is the rock or the stone.
The Prophet and Witness will never rebel against the Priest and King.

There are a total of eight Dispensations... Five have pasted and Three more are yet to come.

1st Adam and Seth... They were a King and Priest
2nd Noah and Shem... They were a King and Priest. Shem was also Melchizedek who would be born again and come as Jehoshua, the Messiah. Fifth Estate Beings come down three times in one Creation, once as a Telestial Being, once as a Terrestrial Being, and once as a Celestial Being.
Abraham was the Prophet and his brother Lot was the Witness.
3rd Moses and Aaron... They were a King and Priest. Joshua
was the Prophet and Caleb was the Witness in Moses Dispensation.
4th Jesus and James... James was His half Brother, he was the first Bishop of Jerusalem and he was also martyred.
Peter was the Prophet and John the Baptist was the Witness.
5th Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith... They were a King and Priest. Who were the Witness and Prophet of Joseph Smith, Jun. Dispensation? And how we know that the LDS Church was the true church established after the Dispensation Priest and King
Hyrum and Joseph were taken (martyred). Who followed the sacred pattern? From the different brake off Churches, the LDS Church fit the pattern! Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball were the only two Apostles who never rebelled against Joseph Smith. Brigham was militant and the Church was established upon him when the other two were taken.

There is a Dispensation about to come forth, but it has not come forth as of yet. Joseph Smith's Dispensation was the "Dispensation of the Fulness of the Times of the Gentiles" or just the "Dispensation of the Times of the Gentiles".

The next Dispensation is the "Dispensation of the gathering of the Elect (Yesrael) from the four corners of the earth and the establishment of Zion". In the Jewish calendar of the world, it is the Rosh Hashanah (Hebrew: ראש השנה‎), literally "head of the year" and is one of two Jewish New Years. This future Dispensation will be head of the Political New Year where the Kingdom of ZION will be established and Zion will come forth. The Davidic Servant is the Dispensation King and he will be eventually called the Davidic King. He was and also is Elijah, the forerunner of the Messiah. He comes to prepares the way for the true King, the Messiah.

The next Dispensation
after the "Dispensation of the gathering of the Elect" is the "Dispensation of the Fullness of Times", it is the Millennial Dispensation and Enoch or Raphael will be the King. Elijah will be the Priest, and Joseph Smith will be the Prophet.

And then after the Millennium world, when the world is Celestialized and it
shall rests for another thousand years, the Great Jehovah (not the Messiah, but His Grandfather) will be the King of that Dispensation, the "Dispensation of the Coming of the Great God".

Shalom


New comment were added in red type...
Last edited by Kingdom of ZION on March 29th, 2017, 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Carlos
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Carlos »

I don't know if this ideas has been expressed before. I believe that the 'servant' is not an individual. Instead, the Lord is using personification to designate the church as his chosen servant. The church is the 'servant' who has the right to the priesthood and is leading/ruling Israel to Zion.

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

FWIW, The davidic Servant will from the line of David who is from the line of Juad, NOT Epheriam. What say ye?

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LukeAir2008
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by LukeAir2008 »

I think we're getting our wires crossed again here. The Davidic servant or future King David and the Mighty and Strong Servant are two different people.

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

Luke: There sure are. Thanks for bringing this to our remembrance.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Samuel the Lamanite wrote:FWIW, The davidic Servant will from the line of David who is from the line of Juad, NOT Epheriam. What say ye?
If it was your intent at you were asking me... I will respond thus:

1 Who is the a Stem of Jesse spoken of in the 1st, 2d, 3d, 4th, and 5th verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah?
2 Verily thus saith the Lord: It is Christ [the Messiah].
3 What is the a rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power. [This was Joseph Smith, Jun.]
5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?
6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a adescendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days. [This is the Davidic Servant. The Priesthood power of Elias is what Joseph Smith, Jun. was able to bring and establish, as that is all that remains. The Priesthood power of Elijah is what the DS will bring and establish. He was the last to hold these key of Priesthood upon the earth. And then comes the Priesthood power of Messiah, and Jehoshua will change the world.]
D&C 113:1-6 [comments added in brackets]

What the world thinks and hopes does not make it so. The Father shows forth patterns that we might recognize His hand and works among men. It is all one story, and this is a one room schoolhouse... and we are not all in the same grade in that class or in other words, were not all at the same place upon that path (the path of Eternal Progression). Shalom

Rand
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Rand »

[quote="
The Priesthood power of Elijah is what the DS will bring and establish. He was the last to hold these key of Priesthood upon the earth. And then comes the Priesthood power of Messiah, and Jehoshua will change the world.]
[/quote]
It would seem to be a surprise to Joseph if he didn't really get the keys from Elijah. Why do you say this?

Bible Dictionary: We learn from latter-day revelation that Elijah held the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood and was the last prophet to do so before the time of Jesus Christ. He appeared on the Mount in company with Moses (also translated) and conferred the keys of the priesthood on Peter, James, and John (Matt. 17:3). He appeared again, in company with Moses and others, on April 3, 1836, in the Kirtland (Ohio) Temple and conferred the same keys upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. All of this was in preparation for the coming of the Lord, as spoken of in Malachi 4:5–6 (D&C 110:13–16). As demonstrated by his miraculous deeds, the power of Elijah is the sealing power of the priesthood by which things bound or loosed on earth are bound or loosed in heaven. Thus the keys of this power are once again operative on the earth and are used in performing all the ordinances of the gospel for the living and the dead.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

The Priesthood power of Elijah is what the DS will bring and establish. He was the last to hold these key of Priesthood upon the earth. And then comes the Priesthood power of Messiah, and Jehoshua will change the world.]
Rand wrote: It would seem to be a surprise to Joseph if he didn't really get the keys from Elijah. Why do you say this?
Bible Dictionary: We learn from latter-day revelation that Elijah held the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood and was the last prophet to do so before the time of Jesus Christ. He appeared on the Mount in company with Moses (also translated) and conferred the keys of the priesthood on Peter, James, and John (Matt. 17:3). He appeared again, in company with Moses and others, on April 3, 1836, in the Kirtland (Ohio) Temple and conferred the same keys upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. All of this was in preparation for the coming of the Lord, as spoken of in Malachi 4:5–6 (D&C 110:13–16). As demonstrated by his miraculous deeds, the power of Elijah is the sealing power of the priesthood by which things bound or loosed on earth are bound or loosed in heaven. Thus the keys of this power are once again operative on the earth and are used in performing all the ordinances of the gospel for the living and the dead. [Bruce R.]

Yes, SM got the keys from Elijah. As Elijah needs JS to return the favor and restore those keys again to him. All of this was in preparation for the coming of the Lord, as spoken of in Malachi 4:5–6. Go and reread all the sermons Joseph gave on Elijah after April 3, 1836. Why was he always speaking in the future tense about Elijah and his mission to come?

JS held the keys this is true but the Priesthood power of Elijah is what? It is not the sealing keys... it is the power, keys,and ordinance of Translation. Joseph never attained to this power in the Priesthood, nor presided in it. That is what the DS will restore, along with the 2/3 of the BofM that have been withheld from the Gentiles because of their lack of faith and unbelief. This is the more holy portion which contain writings upon the administrations of Translation.

When in doubt seek and ask of the Lord (Adonia) whether my words are the truth and have life in them. That is if you or anyone really cares to know... or we can just banter words of doctrines, things others have said who knew and are now long dead.
Last edited by Kingdom of ZION on July 25th, 2011, 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rand
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Rand »

I understand. Thanks for that insight. This is a relatively new topic for me, and I have never found much to read on it. Do you care to suggest something for me to seek deeper knowledge on this topic?

Samuel the Lamanite
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Samuel the Lamanite »

Kingdom: I appreciate your quoting the D+C. That said, your conclusion as to who the Davidic Servant is in brackets ( shows your integrity) yourself indicating that this is your opinion. Maybe I missed it but I see nowhere in the D+C quoted where the DS is mentioned. Did I miss something?

Also, do you agree or disagree that the DS MUST come through the loins of David which is Judah? Js declared himself a PURE Ephriamite. Was JS lying to us? Or did he cahnge that statement later in his life?

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Rand, sorry but I am unaware of any paper or book on translation. You could start by reading 'The RESURRECTION by President Brigham Young, 1884. Brigham like most people mix translation and resurrection at different times. You most likely have already read what JS said, listed in TPJS as The Doctrine of Translation.

[Quote: Samuel the Lamanite] Maybe I missed it but I see nowhere in the D+C quoted where the DS is mentioned. Did I miss something?[/Quote]

Well lets see... I read the Old Testament and I never read the name Jesus Christ in the English version, or in the Tanakh (Hebrew: תַּנַ"ךְ‎) for Old Testament, it also never states Yehushua Ha Mashiach. So if you lived before the coming of the Messiah in the Meridian of Time, having not found his name in the cannon, would you have missed something then? I also have read the New Testament, and I never saw Joseph Smith mentioned. Would you have missed it again? Now after JS coming, your staining at understanding prophesied future True Messengers, are you going to miss something again?

[Quote: Samuel the Lamanite] Also, do you agree or disagree that the DS MUST come through the loins of David which is Judah? Js declared himself a PURE Ephriamite. Was JS lying to us? Or did he cahnge that statement later in his life?[/Quote]

In my previous post I point out (and as you put it, my opinion is...)

5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?
6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a adescendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days. [This is the Davidic Servant. The Priesthood power of Elias is what Joseph Smith, Jun. was able to bring and establish, as that is all that remains. The Priesthood power of Elijah is what the DS will bring and establish. He was the last to hold these key of Priesthood upon the earth. And then comes the Priesthood power of Messiah, and Jehoshua will change the world.]

Jesse was King David of Old, Father. So, yes I agree the DS has the birthright of the Tribe of Judah in him. But He also has the Birthright of Joseph, as Adonia (the Lord) has said. As far as JS being a pure Ephriamite. His birthright was of the Tribe of Ephraim. But Adonia also said of His servant, the Rod... is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power. [This was Joseph Smith, Jun.] How can one have two birthrights? I could just as easily say I am a pure Irishman. Now do you think just because I said it or that I have many ancestors who were Irish, that negates the possibility that I have many other ancestors who more anciently were of many of the other tribes of Yesrael?

When your box get to small, why not just climb out of it?

firend
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by firend »

I suggest reading Avraham Gileadi's works on this. The Davadic servant will have the birthright of Ephraim to have the right to rule spiritually, and the birthright of Judah to rule politically in the Kingdom. This is why he is part one, part the other.

Avraham does an incredible job on this and other relevant subjects.

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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by mes5464 »

Kingdom, you seem to be very knowledgeable about Jewish tradition and belief. Are you Jewish? Is there something you would recommend reading for a gentile like myself to become familiar with Jewish tradition, lore, law? I am only know coming to understand that things like the Jubalee still have great meaning in the fulfillment of prophecy in our day and I am very ignorant of these things. Any suggestion would be appreciated.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

"Firend", I have known Avraham for over twenty years, and I too highly encourage the readings of his writings. I do feel that he attaches to much to the Davidic Servant, as if he will do everything, or Isaiah was referring to him most of the time when talking about the Lord's servants. The DS is by no means the only servant that is coming!

As you said, 'The Davadic servant will have the birthright of Ephraim to have the right to rule spiritually, and the birthright of Judah to rule politically in the Kingdom. This is why he is part one, part the other.' That is correct. However more importantly, he will by birthright to each kingdom, be the only one who can reunite the kingdom of Yodah (Judah) and the Kingdom of Yesrael in the last days. For that is his true calling.


"mes5464", You ask, Am I Jewish? I am a Messianic by faith. Am I trying to be a Jew as some people do, falling away from Christianity? No... I do however believe I have that birthright.

What to read about Judaism... Well if your totally unaware of there beliefs, I have a copy of Judaism for Dummies I bought at a second hand store and found informative. No seriously, if your looking for insights into truths they hold sacred and finding answers your searching for, getting a copy of a good book on Jewish traditions and holiday (feast) observances, this will be a good place to start. I would also get a copy of Joe Sampson book, 'Written by the Finger of God'. And then start praying about things your pondering about and seeking answers...

Shalom

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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by AshleyB »

Ok wait, this may seem a bit off topic here... but I am very interested in a few things some of you said, well all of it but a couple things in particular that I havent seen discussed so openly on here were these:
The quotes that I recall said that unequivocally it would be the prophet, but may be Joseph coming back. It said that it might have been Brigham in part, but surely would have future fulfillment. Whether it will be Joseph come back, another prophet, or perhaps a prophet from outside our church, I don't know.
When you say come back, what exactly do you mean SwissMrs? Do mean like re-born or return as a resurrected being? You guys are all much more knowledgeable about a lot of these things and this topic is one I really dont know much about so I would appreciate any clarifications you could add?

Also, Kingdom of Zion mentioned past prophets returning more then once during a dispensation I believe. Can anyone elaborate more on this? I find this topic really interesting though.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

I believe we need to start a new thread here... I will do it and I will called it 'Eternal Lives'

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gruden2.0
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by gruden2.0 »

Carlos wrote:I don't know if this ideas has been expressed before. I believe that the 'servant' is not an individual. Instead, the Lord is using personification to designate the church as his chosen servant. The church is the 'servant' who has the right to the priesthood and is leading/ruling Israel to Zion.
Interesting idea. Prophecies of a servant are usually just that - a prophecy of a person to come forth and do the work. I don't understand where you get this personification idea from.

The right of the priesthood is not in the church, it runs along patriarchal (family) lines - in the House of Israel. The church is a convenient institutional organization, but that's not where the right to priesthood comes from. There is overlap; a person is adopted into the House of Israel by virtue of the baptismal covenant, but those that are born in certain families have a right to the priesthood independent of the institution.

For example, a Levite has the right to the Aaronic priesthood by virtue of his genealogy, not membership in the church.

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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by dewajack »

gruden2.0 wrote:
Carlos wrote:I don't know if this ideas has been expressed before. I believe that the 'servant' is not an individual. Instead, the Lord is using personification to designate the church as his chosen servant. The church is the 'servant' who has the right to the priesthood and is leading/ruling Israel to Zion.
Interesting idea. Prophecies of a servant are usually just that - a prophecy of a person to come forth and do the work. I don't understand where you get this personification idea from.

The right of the priesthood is not in the church, it runs along patriarchal (family) lines - in the House of Israel. The church is a convenient institutional organization, but that's not where the right to priesthood comes from. There is overlap; a person is adopted into the House of Israel by virtue of the baptismal covenant, but those that are born in certain families have a right to the priesthood independent of the institution.

For example, a Levite has the right to the Aaronic priesthood by virtue of his genealogy, not membership in the church.
Thanks for the simple and true post. In my opinion, we tend to overlook the importance of lineage. Joseph talked about "If people knew who he was," and similar statements. With regard to this, Brigham Young mentioned that this referred to his lineage, it was physical. There are people out there that hold the Priesthood, which don't belong to the church.

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SpeedRacer
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by SpeedRacer »

JS was probably just saying that he was a descendant of Jesus.

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TheProfessor
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Re: The Davidic Servant

Post by TheProfessor »

Joseph was also a direct lineal descendant of Joseph of Egypt, so you've got both presiding bloodlines in one individual: Ephraim=preside over Church and the spiritual blessings that belong to it; Judah=preside over the kingdom.

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