Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

[cayenne]

Fiannan has some good points. The whole married to young thing to me is a poor excuse. If people base their relationships off the spirit of God, age, circumstance, etc is not a factor.

Most people I know are not happy in their marriages. They do get bored. They do after time find their "selfish" desires change, and their parter no longer meets their so called needs. Many want to fall in love again and feel that rush again, hense they move on with divorce, etc

The problem is to many people are not relying on God. They care what they want, not God. Age, amount of time you date, etc are not factors if you have God with you. "Getting to know someone" for 2 years type rules are for those who are relying on their own reasonings to feel comfortable if they should marry. (Arm of flesh) "Getting to know someone in God" does not have "cultural rules," age requirements, dumb rules on how long to date, and other falsehoods. It may take one couple 2 days to get to know someone in God and marry, others 10 years, it does not matter…God does

Woman's roles in God are different then men, and their roles are beautiful and awesome and equally necessary for happiness. Maybe this thread on woman missionaries should ask……What is more important to God for a woman, to seek marriage, or postpone marriage and go on a mission? Then it may be asked if a woman feels God has no one for her yet, and goes on a mission, what if God presents her eternal companion while on said mission? Does she then wait, or leave the mission and marry? What would glorify God more is the real question?

[gkearney]

Would it be wrong to tell a young woman to put marriage as a higher priority than to go on a mission?

Gordon B. Hinckley said that it was wrong for a woman with prospects for marriage to postpone them and go on a mission. I have heard nothing to contradict that advice in any conference but there is a pressure to get women to go being exerted anyway. I teach my daughters to ignore such pressure.

This thread has long been driving me crazy. The key phase above is "a woman with prospects for marriage" how many 19 year-old young women do you know have a prospect of marriage. This thread seems to continually focus on the young women in this equation, forgetting that, the last time I checked anyway, it take two people to make a marriage.

Just wishing for a young man to marry is not going to produce such and dumping all the weight of this issue onto the young women is both unfair and indeed cruel in a fashion. Where are the young men willing to "man up" be an adult and fill their roles in all of this? Harping on the young women as has been done here seems very one-sided. With no prospects for marriage, and such is the case with almost all 19 year-old young women in western nations today, why are we here constantly harping on their choice to serve missions? Perhaps you would rather they go out hopping to bars in search of a man?

[Fiannan]

This thread has long been driving me crazy. The key phase above is "a woman with prospects for marriage" how many 19 year-old young women do you know have a prospect of marriage. This thread seems to continually focus on the young women in this equation, forgetting that, the last time I checked anyway, it take two people to make a marriage.

Well, you will have to consult President Hinckley on that one as he is the one who brought it up in conference.

Also, the term "prospect" generally applies to knowing a guy in which there is a relationship, right?

Just wishing for a young man to marry is not going to produce such and dumping all the weight of this issue onto the young women is both unfair and indeed cruel in a fashion.

Who did that?

Where are the young men willing to "man up" be an adult and fill their roles in all of this? Harping on the young women as has been done here seems very one-sided. With no prospects for marriage, and such is the case with almost all 19 year-old young women in western nations today, why are we here constantly harping on their choice to serve missions? Perhaps you would rather they go out hopping to bars in search of a man?

[/quote]

Seems most of the thread is actually questioning if it is a good idea to harp at the young women to go on missions.

And why would you suggest anyone thinks the young women should go out barhopping to find a mate? Did anyone say anything about bars?

[Darren]

This topic is about a Culture, wherein we as a body of members are voting to become more like the world and less in line with traditional values and standards, resulting in a loss of true culture, at ever increasing speed.

The Mission or the Boyfriend?
Wednesday, April 27, 2016

Dear Bro Jo,

I just submitted my mission papers, and over the last 6 months I've been getting really close to this guy in my ward who was inactive/on the verge of inactivity and has because I pretty much "called him unto repentance" of the way I saw his life was going and I had been at that same place before, and I knew it would end badly!

He really appreciated that I had done that, and said no one had ever cared enough tell him to get back on track before, not even his parents.

Since then, we text every day and we go out for casual lunches once a week & we have been on a few dates. I'm 90% sure he likes me & is attracted to me and I definitely like him.

He hasn't served a mission, but now had a desire too - but some of the things he does show that he still isn't really, deeply committed to the gospel. I have tried to back off, and "lock my heart" because my papers are in - but every time I see him at institute or Church or firesides, he comes and talks to me and I seem to fall for him all over again! I'm not sure what to do - because I feel for him so deeply and just want him to actually feel the saviors love because it'll make him happy!

But I know it's dangerous territory as he has broken the law of chastity with his previous girlfriend and he's not fully back living the gospel even though he comes to church.

How can I support him in coming back to Church but still bridling my feelings & keeping a friendly relationship before on I go on my mission?

Sorry for the long spiel, but thank you!

- Confused Soon to be Missionary

http://dearbrojo.blogspot.com/2016/04/t ... riend.html

I am glad that my wife was prepared to treat me as her mission, and get going on building an eternal family unit while we were both young, instead of obsessing about and going on a mission.

God Bless,
Darren

[gkearney]

And why would you suggest anyone thinks the young women should go out barhopping to find a mate? Did anyone say anything about bars?

It's called Hyperbole, the deliberate exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. In any event few 19-year-old young women in western nations have any serious prospect of marriage and given that they might well consider a mission.

The problem here is we have the age of first marriage on a steady rise and the age for mission for young women being lowered the effect of these two is a growing number of young women serving missions, to the point where it equals the young men doing so.

There are several demographic factors for this. First the age of first marriage has increases in the U.S. and in the population of the church as well. For example in 1960 the age of first marriage in the U.S. for women was 20.3 years today it stands at 26.5 years nationwide. Even in Utah with the youngest population in the U.S. the age of first marriage for women is 23.5 years. Now consider the age of mission service, when it was set at 21 years in the early 1960's it was higher than the average age of first marriage at the time. It was safe bet that most young women at the time would either already be married by the time of their 21st birthday or have good prospects of being married.

Then the age of first marriage started to rise pushing more and more young women into the age range of being able to serve missions as fewer and fewer of them would either be married or have any prospects of being so.

Finally we then lowered the age for sister missionaries to 19 making the already pronounced demographic trend even more pronounced.

Added to all of this is the fact that we have likely tapped out the numbers of young men we can pull into mission service. Families, even LDS ones, have fewer children and so we reach the some problem that the Catholics have faced for a couple of generations now. In the case of the Catholics with their lifetime commitment to religious vocations it is even more pronounced than for the LDS but it is the same demographic at play, there simply isn't as big a pool of young men to pull from even in peace time. There are several reasons for this, some young men have no desire to serve missions, some are ineligible due to either health reasons or personal misconduct, in some nations military service preempts mission service and of course young men die in accidents at a higher rate than their female counterparts.This is compounded when there are simply fewer young men of mission age. In times past if a family had perhaps 6 children 4 of which were boys even if a couple did not choose to go on a mission there were always a couple who would. Now we are down to family size of 3 or less if the son chooses to not serve a mission, or can not for some reason, there is simply is no one left in the family to do so, other than his sisters that is. Demographics is a harsh taskmaster.

The title of this thread however implies a condition which I do not think is the case. It suggests that enmass young women of the church are walking away from immanent prospects of marriage to serve missions. This is something I see no substantive proof of in actual fact. That is that these young women are dumping a good prospect of marriage to serve mission, rather I suspect that these young women are serving mission precisely because they have no immanent prospects of marriage and likely will not have such for a number of years following their return.

[butterfly]

Lots of LDS women in their 30s heading for spinsterhood who would envy the gal you are making reference to.

Do you believe that people cannot be happy while they are single?

I think there is too much pressure to marry. It is very helpful for individuals to live on their own for a bit before marrying. You learn a lot about yourself as a person, about responsibility, etc and about the kind of spouse that's right for you.
Marrying straight out of high school is not wise, imo.

It's interesting to me how many references there are to women looking for a man mainly for economic support. I realize that traditionally this is what marriage was about- children and finances, but now I don't think that money is at the top of every girl's list.

[cayenne]

This topic is about a Culture, wherein we as a body of members are voting to become more like the world and less in line with traditional values and standards, resulting in a loss of true culture, at ever increasing speed.

The Mission or the Boyfriend?
Wednesday, April 27, 2016

Dear Bro Jo,

I just submitted my mission papers, and over the last 6 months I've been getting really close to this guy in my ward who was inactive/on the verge of inactivity and has because I pretty much "called him unto repentance" of the way I saw his life was going and I had been at that same place before, and I knew it would end badly!

He really appreciated that I had done that, and said no one had ever cared enough tell him to get back on track before, not even his parents.

Since then, we text every day and we go out for casual lunches once a week & we have been on a few dates. I'm 90% sure he likes me & is attracted to me and I definitely like him.

He hasn't served a mission, but now had a desire too - but some of the things he does show that he still isn't really, deeply committed to the gospel. I have tried to back off, and "lock my heart" because my papers are in - but every time I see him at institute or Church or firesides, he comes and talks to me and I seem to fall for him all over again! I'm not sure what to do - because I feel for him so deeply and just want him to actually feel the saviors love because it'll make him happy!

But I know it's dangerous territory as he has broken the law of chastity with his previous girlfriend and he's not fully back living the gospel even though he comes to church.

How can I support him in coming back to Church but still bridling my feelings & keeping a friendly relationship before on I go on my mission?

Sorry for the long spiel, but thank you!

- Confused Soon to be Missionary

http://dearbrojo.blogspot.com/2016/04/t ... riend.html

I am glad that my wife was prepared to treat me as her mission, and get going on building an eternal family unit while we were both young, instead of obsessing about and going on a mission.

God Bless,
Darren

Darren, what you said about your wife was prepared to treat you as her mission. That is really good! That is exactly how my wife is too. We married young also…..would not change a thing.

[Darren]

Young Men Should Marry Before Their 23rd Birthday
Young Women Should Marry Before Their 21st Birthday
Monday, April 11, 2016 By Douglas Wilson

The war on marriage has many fronts. And while Christians have done a decent job in resisting some of the more outlandish attacks, in other areas we have tended to go along with the secular flow completely. One area where acquiescence is evident is when it comes to the age when young people marry.

We do have a pressing problem. According to The Atlantic, right now the average age for a first marriage is 27 for women, and 29 for men. In 1960, it was 20 for women and 22 for men. This is a grease fire disaster.

The factors driving all this are largely out in the secular world, but the repercussions are very much being felt in the church. ... Here are seven reasons for believing this.

1. There is no such thing as gift of singleness.

2. The temptations of porn do not disqualify men for marriage. Rather they qualify men for marriage. God has a solution for sexual temptation ... called sex, bounded and surrounded with covenant vows.

3. Men need help, and they need help as soon as they have assumed the full responsibilities of adulthood. Women were given by God to help men because men needed the help, and that help has to do with their vocation and calling. If a woman is called to be the wife of a doctor, she can step into that calling by being the wife of a med student. God does not say “it is not good for man to be alone after grad school.”

4. Marriage is a wonderful way to deal with false ideas of the self. Who we actually are does not unfold out of us over the years like we were unpacking a suitcase. Who we actually are is who we become in long-term relationships with those appointed to us by God. In other words, I am not the same man that I was when I married Nancy, and she is not the same woman she was. We have become who we are now together, and this is the central way that God does it. Put another way, a large part of me was imported from my relationships.

5. Children take a lot of energy, and children are one of the central reasons for marriage.

6. If we had an expectation for our young people to marry young, this would help head off unrealistic standards from developing. The longer men and women live apart from one another, the easier it is to get crotchety, or even persnickety.

7. Feminism is a toxic mess. The best and only complete answer to it is for men to find a woman early, love her completely, feed and educate her children, and bring her as much happiness as you are capable of bringing someone. As one Puritan put it, and man should first choose his love, and then love his choice. Young Christian men should marry in such a way as to make celebration of a 75th anniversary a much greater likelihood.

In the words of the great saints of yore, it is time to shake a leg. Get a move on. We are burning daylight.

https://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-cu ... thday.html

[Sirocco]

Jeez I'm 27 and nowhere near married lol
And you're right singleness sucks, but what can you do?
I'd mess up a marriage and loose everything so, yeah I'd rather be alone, at least I'll keep the money I earned.
The fear of financial ruin is far more frightening to me then the simple act of divorce. I've lost lots of people in my life, I know how to handle loss.
I mean everyone leaves my life at some point so it's bound to happen.
A marriage would be "until she hates me, then we part" and that'd be fine except that money thing again.

[Darren]

Jeez I'm 27 and nowhere near married lol
And you're right singleness sucks, but what can you do?
I'd mess up a marriage and loose everything so, yeah I'd rather be alone, at least I'll keep the money I earned.
The fear of financial ruin is far more frightening to me then the simple act of divorce. I've lost lots of people in my life, I know how to handle loss.
I mean everyone leaves my life at some point so it's bound to happen.
A marriage would be "until she hates me, then we part" and that'd be fine except that money thing again.

I hear you. But does your Church?

This whole issue is about Culture. Is the Mormon Culture a culture of marriage and family life, or are we loosing that? and why?

Here is the crux of the problem. We have examples of earlier Church culture, including the Culture of the lost tribes of Israel to find perspective on, to turn around modern day Mormon Culture, but we don't use it.

Instead Mormon Culture is all about being one foot in Babylon and the other one slipping into there.

Our Ancestral Culture and Church set up by Jesus Christ at FornSigTuna, Sweden in 43 A.D. that continued for hundreds of years in purity and thousands of years in many cultural traditions, when it was handed off to the Latter-day Saints is now hanging by its last thread, about to fall into the abyss. And where are the Elders to save it?

In that early period of Church Culture after 43 A.D. support structure existed that allowed young men and young women to successfully marry and have families while they were young and in a community that built up that way of living.

We need to learn about and get back to that, by studying and implementing the principles of our ancestors.

God Bless,
Darren

[Sirocco]

I think the core of it is how divorces are so prevalent and accepted, and really favour the woman over the man.
People always say same sex marriage is the doom of the family when in reality it's the easy divorces.
I mean look at the numbers, gays aren't stopping straights from marrying, the awful laws are.
There's other factors but really I would say that's at the top, and that can effect one no matter their religion.

[Darren]

I think the core of it is how divorces are so prevalent and accepted, and really favour the woman over the man.
People always say same sex marriage is the doom of the family when in reality it's the easy divorces.
I mean look at the numbers, gays aren't stopping straights from marrying, the awful laws are.
There's other factors but really I would say that's at the top, and that can effect one no matter their religion.

The basis for the goodly society, established by Jesus Christ at FornSigTuna, Sweden in 43 A.D. was the "commitment" of the individual, and the Church to the purpose of the Lord. In that environment where the fastness of commitment was everything to that society, divorce was only for situations wherein one partner or the other vacated their commitment basis, basically they left their society behind.

Fast forward to today, and what is a commitment worth?

Real commitments are few and far between. We are by and large a commitmentless society. So much so that when our people come out of the temple, after making their commitments they no longer see the value of those commitments.

Yes, the constitution of the people is hanging by the thinnest of thread. Without commitment to goodness, there is no constitution to save.

God Bless,
Darren

[Sirocco]

Okay well I'm Canadian so...
We don't have that here lol

People need a reason to commit, shouting how bad they are and how things were better before doesn't make people want to come to your side of things.
Things like churches need to be a tad more creative to re-instill traditional values again.

[Darren]

Okay well I'm Canadian so...
We don't have that here lol

People need a reason to commit, shouting how bad they are and how things were better before doesn't make people want to come to your side of things.
Things like churches need to be a tad more creative to re-instill traditional values again.

The point I want to make is that Canadians also can help save the constitution, because your country is part of that original constitution that goes back thousands of years. Please take advantage of this information about our constitution, that I have been presenting on this forum and learn how to do your part in Canada to save the constitution of the people.

This is from my very first post I made on this forum in 2006, not long after Brian (the web master) set it up.

I do not believe that through Politics we can answer the problems it pretends to address. For years now I have been perusing a study of History coupled with a study of the origins of the LAW, specifically Ancient Anglo Law (in the book, The Majesty of God’s Law), as I have been coming into an understanding of the correct principles of working together.

How many of you know of the prophesy that the United States as a government will fall, as part of the end of all nations? And that the constitution that is the basis of our free society will be what is left, if our people do their job.

How many of you know where we get the constitution that is mentioned in Doctrine and Covenants 101:77-80? Don’t say the “Miracle in Philadelphia” because you would be wrong and you would offend a lot of puritan New Englanders, see http://www.cslib.org/cts4ch.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And if you don’t understand the message in the above paragraph then how can you possibly understand the following revelation?

"Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground; and when the Constitution is upon the brink of ruin, this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean; and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” (Dean C. Jessee, "The Historian's Corner" BYU Studies Vol. 19, No. 3, Spring 1979, p. 392)

The key to understanding the scripture and the quote above is the different spellings of the words,

(Large C) “Constitution”
and
(small c) “constitution”

The first word “Constitution” is the one that will fall as part of the end of all nations, it is the one that is called The United States Constitution.

The second word “constitution” is the gospel of Jesus Christ as operated by Ancient Anglo Law, and as Moses set it up for the children of Israel. The “constitution” is the basis for the “Constitution” which is unfortunately also contaminated with “Byzantine Lex” (orthodoxy.)

In the millennium we will be working together by the constitution, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and we will be “Restoring their judges and all as at first;” (Hymn #2.) The politicians, policies and these principles of orthodoxy of the Great and Abominable Church will be gone forever.

With this knowledge of how we are to move directly into the millennium why are we not there yet?

Because of our participation through the political systems now on the earth, we are part of the Great and Abominable Church as set up by Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. Until we recognize this modern version of the Gadianton Robbers and wake up to our awful situation we will not be part of the move into the millennium. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=293

Your fellow Elder,
Darren

[Darren]

A Disturbing Shift in LDS Culture

Dear Readers,

Sister Jo and I have observed what we feel is a disturbing shift in LDS culture: many of our Sisters seem to be afraid of, and unprepared for, marriage. Not just the 18-year olds, but even those in their young to mid 20's.

We don't know if this is a lack of training, worldliness, parents who aren't ready to deal with what it means to have adult children, a belief that pornography exposed Young Men will have frightening expectations of their wives . . . or something else we still haven't discerned.

For so many years we've focused on our Young Single Adult Men not being prepared. That lack of readiness now seems to have shifted to the Sisters.

Some Young Women are indeed Called to Serve, and they come home from their Missions prepared for Temple Marriage. We have no idea why so many of the Single Men of the Church seem to be so unaware of these Wonderful Sisters.

Some Sisters are using a Mission to dodge adulthood, go on an adventure, and avoid Temple Marriage. Not all. But too many.

I absolutely believe that no one should get married if they are not ready.

And I believe with all of my heart that anyone who works with all of their heart, might, mind and strength will reap wonderful spiritual blessings from missionary service and bless the lives of those whom they serve and serve with. Men and Women.

My concern is that our young people are not at all ready for Eternal Marriage when they should be.

Wedding bells need not sound in that first year (after high school for girls; after a mission for guys) but both should be reaching that point in their lives . . . PREPARED . . . should the opportunity arise.

And I am deeply concerned that so many of you are not prepared, even when you come home from your mission.

What do you think can be done? What should be done? Am I totally off base?

I invite your comments and questions.

God bless you all,

- Bro Jo

http://dearbrojo.blogspot.com/search/la ... 20Marriage

[Sirocco]

Old Maid Mormon
Face to Face for YSA with Elder Holland
Saturday, March 19, 2016

Regarding the "dating crisis" among YSA, the real issue no one wants to address is that in most first-world countries, 21st century dating now equals premarital sex. Young adults of the world don't "date." They don't even have "boy/girlfriends" anymore. Instead, couples refer to themselves as, "We're seeing each other." or "We're together." Meaning they're having sex with maybe an occasional date on the side. Hopefully, one day, they will move in together and that will, hopefully, lead to marriage.

As a result, Mormon youth are returning from their missions and not dating. Not because they lack financial resources, because sex is such a big part of the picture now, taking over every aspect of the idea.

The wholesome 1960's era dating Elder Holland and Sister Stephens know has literally disappeared from our current culture.

Sex has replaced dating. Because the church does not condone this, YSA women know they must wait while the men feel ridiculous asking a girl to the local malt shop. What if they turn him down? The horror! Instead they can take their time and play the field, browse the buffet, hanging out, be as choosy as they want while the growing number of single never-married sisters just want to give up and die.

To every thing there is a season and the season of the malt-shop date ended sometime after 1989.

The best answers regarding the "crisis" Elder Holland and Sister Stephens' could come up with?
Here they are:

We're married and so can you!
God will bless you in the next life.
Keep living for the ideal which is temple marriage.
Find ways to serve others (especially "the marrieds" because you have so much more free time than they do!)
You are not defined by your marital status. (Um, yes we are, Sister Stephens. What part of "single" don't you understand?)

I felt patronized. I felt that, once again, church leaders wanted to avoid the most important issues plaguing the fastest growing minority in the church.

All they wanted to talk about was marriage but what about dating?
What about the LACK of dating?

Even the words "date" and "dating" were only mentioned in context to when these church leaders met and married their spouses.

When you're sixteen, it's okay if you still haven't been asked out on a date. It'll happen. It'll come - Age twenty-six? Not so cute anymore.

To be the ONLY ONE in your family ward still patiently waiting to be asked.
Feeling like one ruby among hundreds every Sunday at your singles ward.
Is it any wonder church attendance among this age group is falling fast?

In return, Elder Holland had a question for us.
"What do you do as a YSA to find peace and happiness during times of trial?"

He left his blessing on the men who hold the Melchizedek priesthood: to be worthy of it and continue to use it; for good.

His blessing on the women was to stay active, work hard, endure despite the fact we outnumber men in so many areas of the church yet we are equally important in building up the kingdom of God. Our sacrifice (which includes continuing to live the law of chastity) will not go unrewarded.

You will be happy again.

http://oldmaidmormon.blogspot.com/

I call them squires (a hilarious reference to my King status of a micronation I invented), they're dear to me, and in many ways I act like a mate to them, though I'm not because, well that's how it goes these days I guess. Really its just friends with benefits, though it's more benefits then sex, more affection and dates I would say, a couple in many respects.
Never really understood the lack of desire to commit, I don't think I'd be worse then the loneliness they have, but who am I to question that, they seem dead set in their ways and I have urges, and at 27 and being too anti social to attend church (nor liking the crowd) I just don't think I'd be the one for well anyone there lol.
I don't like rejection and I've gotten enough in my life, but I know how to play the game I play, and to throw out this game for a new one, one I might loose at, though the end result could certainly be more rewarding... Tempting, but I have never been a gambling man.
Dating is awkward, seldom fun, and just unpleasant, no wonder men are not wanting to do it in favour of something clearly better (for them).
I would be more enthused if it was fun.
But it isn't.
And women don't make it fun, or easy, or pleasant.

[gkearney]

Perhaps we should consider arranged marriages.

Now don't dismiss this without some consideration. Arranged marriages have proven to be no more likely to fail than romantic ones. As a boy I attended an Orthodox Jewish boarding school. We had a few boys there, I was about 12 or 13 at the time, whose families had arranged marriages for them. To make this clear in the modern jewish tradition of arrange marriages the marriages take place only after both parties are fully adults and have been educated. Should either party then object to the marriage it is not done. That said young people raise with such an expectation often do not object. These arrangements are generally handled by professional matchmakers who know the families and the children involved and work out a set of introductions.

Some of us boys who were either not jewish or came from jewish homes that did not practice arranged marriage, and that was most of us, were very taken aback that someone our age would know the girl that would eventually become our wife. A wise rabbi at the school explained it to us this way:

In a romantic marriage you go into it expecting everything, but no marriage can give you everything. In an arranged marriage you go in expecting nothing, but no marriage is so bad that you get nothing from it.

Rabbi Padduls words have remained with me for all these years.

[Darren]

How about we get back to teaching the fundamentals of the rolls of men and women, and support that in the Mormon Culture so that young men and young women can be welcomed into their rolls?

We are witnessing cultural change in Church Culture.

Is the issue of Traditional Culture part of the remaining thin frail thread of the hanging by a thread constitution of the people?

Where are the Elders who will save it?

70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

Men not marrying? How deep does "the problem" go?

She's Going on a Mission
"This has become a very common trend recently, and Mormon girls everywhere (especially in Utah) are leaving dudes heartbroken, devastated, and hopeless."

Is the obsession for young women to go on missions and follow after traditional male roles overshadowing the marriage and family life roll?

And how has that culture change affected the young men?

God Bless,
Darren

[Sirocco]

I think something like that could work, though not having it required but something like if you're unable to find someone yourself you go to the Bishop or whoever and trust them and revelation or whatever.

[Darren]

Young Women Getting Married An Average Of 7 Years Later

The average age when men and women first get married in the United States is getting perilously close to 30, but in the middle of the last century it was close to 20. There has been a dramatic cultural shift, and this has resulted in a whole host of unintended consequences.

The typical U.S. woman now marries at 27.1 years old, the typical man at 29.2, according to census data. That’s up from record lows of 20.1 for women and 22.5 for men in 1956.

“They’re concentrating more on school, careers and work and less focused on forming new families, spouses or partners and children,” said Richard Fry, lead author of the report and a senior economist at the Pew Research Center. Fry said of the millennials.

One of the big reasons why men and women are both delaying marriage so much these days is because our young people are constantly being inundated with messages that tell them that it is much more fun to be single. If you aren’t doing so already, start paying attention to how marriage and parenthood are being portrayed to our young adults on television and in the movies. In most cases, getting married at a young age is portrayed as being a “mistake”, and having children is often depicted as a good way to ruin your future.

Nearly a third of millennials live with their parents, slightly more than the share of their age group who live with a spouse or partner. For this age group, the researchers say, this is the first time that living at home has overtaken living with a spouse since the U.S. Census began keeping track in 1880.

As recently as 2000, nearly 43 percent of young adults, ages 18 to 34, were married or living with a partner. By 2014, that proportion was just 31.6 percent.

In 2000, only 23 percent of young adults were living with parents. In 2014, the figure reached 32.1 percent.

Clearly we have a major problem.

As the institution of the family has broken down, we have become lonelier, more isolated, less healthy and more prone to addictive behaviors as a society.

Could it be possible that previous generations of Americans actually knew what they were doing?

Could it be possible that it would be a good thing to teach our young people to value marriage and family?

Could it be possible that we are actually designed to get married and have children at a relatively younger age?

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... -the-1950s

[Darren]

Woman serving as LDS Church missionary in Ogden missing
May 31, 2016



The LDS Church asked for the public's help Tuesday in finding a 20-year-old sister missionary missing since Monday night.

Fellow missionaries and local police are looking for Sister Heeji Nada Kang, 20, of The Woodlands, Texas, who left her Ogden apartment between 9:30 and 10 p.m., Ogden Police Lt. Danielle Croyle said.

Kang was serving full time in the Utah Ogden Mission, according Eric Hawkins, spokesman for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

"Sister Kang was last seen on Monday evening when she left on foot from her apartment in Ogden," he said in a statement. "No foul play is suspected, but Sister Kang was emotionally distressed when she was last seen. The Ogden police were notified Monday evening. We pray she is safe and will be found quickly."

Police, missionaries and LDS Church security personnel were actively looking Tuesday for Kang, Croyle and Hawkins said.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tml?pg=all

Early Returned Sister Missionary Finds Natural Solution for Mental Health Struggle
May 25, 2016

Ashley Sargeant had been serving a mission in the Brasilia Brazil Mission for nine months when she was given an honorable release. While serving, she battled with mental health struggles and halfway through her mission, she had a complete mental collapse. Ashley was heartbroken, but knew it was right to return home.

On February 19th 2015, she launched a social media campaign titled “Don’t Stop Sargeant” designed to share hope and resources with early returning missionaries and those who are battling mental illness to overcome the stigma that is so prevalent in our culture. She responds to messages from her followers on her website (link above), Facebook page, Instagram, and YouTube. Ashley has been battling mental illness for the past fourteen years, but coming home from her mission really hit home and her quest to find answers really began at the end of her mission.

It has been around three years since Ashley returned home from Brazil. Six months ago, she was in an even darker place than she had ever been in her life. In a recent presentation she gave, she said “my brain could not handle it anymore.” At this same time, a friend approached her on social media saying that she would be in town and that she could come visit her. She was excited to see her friend but also in deep need of help at this dark time. It was at this time that her friend Josie Thompson told her about EMPowerplus Q96. When Josie told her about this broad spectrum micronutrient, she said that she had already heard about this from nearly a dozen of her other friends, but she assumed that it was just too good to be true.

Josie said to Ashley: “Before you admit yourself to the hospital, at least try this.” So Lisa Thompson, Josie’s mom, sent Ashley a month supply for free the next day. Ashley was still hesitant that it would work, but within the first couple of weeks, she noticed changes in her mood and she started functioning again. “Within a month of taking it, I started getting out of bed. That is a big deal! The second month it became even easier. I was sleeping better and I didn’t have the desire to kill myself anymore.”

https://ldsmissionaries.com/early-retur ... -struggle/

[Sunain]

Young Men Should Marry Before Their 23rd Birthday
Young Women Should Marry Before Their 21st Birthday
Monday, April 11, 2016 By Douglas Wilson

Jeez I'm 27 and nowhere near married lol

'Bested' you there, I'm 34 and single. I can't imagine myself getting married in my early 20's. It's even harder now for people in their 20's to get married.
The financial hardships are to great these days. Couple that with very few to little worthy and eligible people to marry compounds the issue we see these days of lower marriage rates and people getting married at later ages.

Yes, the apostles have said to have faith but the Lord has said to wise. The banks are wolves ready to prey on the young and foolish. Families cost enormous amounts of money, more so than ever before in history.

Matthew 10:16 - Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents,
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/10.16?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is an upcoming debt crisis on the horizon. President Hinckley warned about it almost 2 decades ago. It will be worse than when the banks foreclosed on mortgages because they will be scraping for every last penny this time.

...I am troubled by the huge consumer installment debt which hangs over the people of the nation, including our own people.
To the Boys and to the Men - Gordon B. Hinckley - President of the Church
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm deeply disappointed by the policies and culture of the church that places single adults as 'not truly' adults because they aren't married. It is a despicable, hurtful and unkind mentality that has zero bearing on an individuals mental or physical capacity as an adult member of society and as a member of the church. Only in the church does this attitude exist to create a second class member. Unlike the LGBT members who are also facing a similar issue these days, single members of the church aren't breaking any commandments by not getting married when the church thinks they should get married. God has said to multiply and replenish the earth but there are so many more conditions required to honestly and sincerely fulfill that eternal commitment.

D&C 9:8 - But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 8?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For people like me, study and research is a time consuming process because I want to understand a topic or idea to the fullest before acting. Being pressured into something too quickly or not being fully prepared is a recipe for disaster, hence the astronomical divorce rates. Marriage should not be subjected to being a statistic in a church report. Far too often, especially in missionary work, an emphasis on higher statistics is put in place. People's eternal well being is not a statistic to be trifled with.

I have yet to see any church or news article actually ask singles if they want to be married. I'm guessing that that statistic would be in the high 90% percentile. Why are single adults foregoing marriage till almost 30's now? It's because it takes that amount of time now to be established enough to be a family. The requirements to establish a family have significantly changed this century. Education (college or university), well paying job, suitable accommodation for a family, ect. All of which requires a lot of money which also takes time to get enough capital to support a family. The way the apostles speak these days makes it seem like we should all be living in poverty but so long as were married, everything is fine.

If the church is so worried about statistics, how about they survey young married members and see how much debt, student debt, what their living conditions are, if they have food storage, if they have an emergency fund, if their children are participating in extra curricular activities, if they are on some kind of welfare support, how much money they think they need in their area of the world they would need to support a family, are they living above or below the poverty line, ect.

People should marry when they are ready and have found a worth companion not in someone's or the church's expected timeline. If that time is in their 30's, so be it. The Lord will bless us all but he expects us to think and act rationally for our circumstances. Circumstances have changed in this world and are continuing to do so.

Nearly a third of millennials live with their parents, slightly more than the share of their age group who live with a spouse or partner. For this age group, the researchers say, this is the first time that living at home has overtaken living with a spouse since the U.S. Census began keeping track in 1880.

As recently as 2000, nearly 43 percent of young adults, ages 18 to 34, were married or living with a partner. By 2014, that proportion was just 31.6 percent.

In 2000, only 23 percent of young adults were living with parents. In 2014, the figure reached 32.1 percent.

Clearly we have a major problem.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... -the-1950s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2008 - Financial Crisis has forced people to do what they have to live. No one want's to live with their parents at those ages but it's become one of the only financially responsible ways to provide for themselves.

Could it be possible that previous generations of Americans actually knew what they were doing?

No, they are the reason we are in this situation now with the debt. They were irresponsible and are trying to shift the blame onto millennials.

Could it be possible that it would be a good thing to teach our young people to value marriage and family?

Ask any member of the church if they value marriage and a family. 99.9% of them will say family and marriage are their highest priority because of its of eternal consequences.

Could it be possible that we are actually designed to get married and have children at a relatively younger age?

No. It maybe easier at a younger age but science is also helping with fertility issues. Look no further than Abraham and Sarah.

Genesis 21:5 - And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/gen/21.5?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sunain]

Old Maid Mormon
Face to Face for YSA with Elder Holland
Saturday, March 19, 2016
Regarding the "dating crisis" among YSA, the real issue no one wants to address is that in most first-world countries, 21st century dating now equals premarital sex. Young adults of the world don't "date." They don't even have "boy/girlfriends" anymore. Instead, couples refer to themselves as, "We're seeing each other." or "We're together." Meaning they're having sex with maybe an occasional date on the side. Hopefully, one day, they will move in together and that will, hopefully, lead to marriage.

As a result, Mormon youth are returning from their missions and not dating. Not because they lack financial resources, because sex is such a big part of the picture now, taking over every aspect of the idea.

The wholesome 1960's era dating Elder Holland and Sister Stephens know has literally disappeared from our current culture.

Sex has replaced dating. Because the church does not condone this, YSA women know they must wait while the men feel ridiculous asking a girl to the local malt shop. What if they turn him down? The horror! Instead they can take their time and play the field, browse the buffet, hanging out, be as choosy as they want while the growing number of single never-married sisters just want to give up and die.

To every thing there is a season and the season of the malt-shop date ended sometime after 1989.
http://oldmaidmormon.blogspot.com/

Yes, Yes, Yes. In the past few years, as a male member of the church, I've had to turn down date requests from non-member women I know and work with because I know what their expectations for dating are and they are obviously not in line with the standards of the church. Now that they know I'm a member of the church, it makes situations like this a bit less awkward but somewhat alienating. Gone are the times that members of the church could date non-members without the expectation sex or going to a bar. Gone are also the days that men would be the one to initiate courtship as well. "Netflix and chill" anyone?!

Dating is awkward, seldom fun, and just unpleasant, no wonder men are not wanting to do it in favour of something clearly better (for them).
I would be more enthused if it was fun.
But it isn't.
And women don't make it fun, or easy, or pleasant.

I think women lately have become more accommodating and have more overlapping interests than in the past. LDS women do seem to be 100x more pickier who they date than non-members though. Possibly why there are apparently so many single women members in Utah.

[Sirocco]

Yeah people get more picky the more time they spend alone. Especially women.
Strange phenomenon.
I think nowadays tv and such tells them they deserve it all, so they hold out for the best, when the best have all the cards in hand, and pick whomever they want. The best is the best for a reason, there's few of them.
Not every woman, or even most women, are going to land a guy who is a 10 and at least has a 6 figure income.
Not when she's a 4 and in her 30s.
Even if looks and age are kinder to her, no guarantees it would even work.
I know people like that, granted they're not LDS but I don't think the church has anything to do with that.

But getting back to it, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I had no place in church, besides my personality, my free thinking attitude and constant questioning, I know what they think of me. And it isn't positive. And it's because I am single.
And it would just make my life arguably worse to subject myself to it, things are looking up, why would I throw a wrench in it now?
I get enough sadness from being alone, I wouldn't want to subject myself to that in a place that is, arguably supposed to bring joy (otherwise what am I getting out of it?)

[Darren]

LDS Church to allow women missionaries to wear pants
May 20, 2016

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announces revised dress guidelines for sister missionaries in areas of the world affected by mosquito-borne diseases — about half of the Church’s missions. (Photo courtesy LDS Church)



SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced that women missionaries for the Mormon faith will now be allowed to wear pants in countries where there is a risk of mosquito-borne diseases.

In a statement Friday, the LDS Church said it was following recommendations by governmental agencies across the globe. The policy change, allowing women to wear slacks and other clothing that covers arms and legs, would apply to 230 missions — about half of the Church’s missions. Women missionaries would still be encouraged to wear skirts or dresses when attending temple or Sunday services, the church said.

http://fox13now.com/2016/05/20/lds-chur ... eases-are/