Why we are still under condemnation and what we can do.

[marc]

3 nephi 26:8 And these things have I written, which are a lesser part of the things which he taught the people; and I have written them to the intent that they may be brought again unto this people, from the Gentiles, according to the words which Jesus hath spoken.

9 And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.

10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

We say we believe these things, yet the book of mormon clearly states WE DONT!, thus we are under condemnation.

Indeed. Jesus Christ taught the people at Bountiful important things that we are not allowed to know because He knew that we would treat lightly what we now have. But Jesus Christ has promised to teach us if we believe, just as the people at Bountiful believed. And this is what Nephi foretold:

5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

7 And now I, Nephi, cannot say more; the Spirit stoppeth mine utterance, and I am left to mourn because of the unbelief, and the wickedness, and the ignorance, and the stiffneckedness of men; for they will not search knowledge, nor understand great knowledge, when it is given unto them in plainness, even as plain as word can be.

8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.

9 But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.

When Christ appeared to the people at Bountiful, He taught them what they were to observe. Likewise, He will teach us individually. A few members have already experienced this and testified of it. The rest of us are still pondering as Nephi grieved we would. Why? Because we are not praying. We faint. We do not have the confidence that Joseph Smith spoke of in Lectures on Faith:

4. Such was and always will be the situation of the Saints of God. Unless they have an actual knowledge that the course they are pursuing is according to the will of God, they will grow weary in their minds and faint. For such has been and always will be the opposition in the hearts of unbelievers and those who know not God against the pure and unadulterated religion of heaven (the only thing which ensures eternal life). They will persecute to the uttermost all who worship God according to his revelations, receive the truth in the love of it, and submit themselves to be guided and directed by his will. And they will drive them to such extremities that nothing short of an actual knowledge of their being the favorites of heaven and of their having embraced that order of things which God has established for the redemption of man will enable them to exercise that confidence in him necessary for them to overcome the world and obtain that crown of glory which is laid up for them that fear God.

Sound familiar? And those who don't have this knowledge persecute those who do, accusing them of apostasy because they follow a course, which they perceive is not in line with "The Brethren."

Pray and not faint. What does this mean?

D&C 101:81 Now, unto what shall I liken the children of Zion? I will liken them unto the parable of the woman and the unjust judge, for men ought always to pray and not to faint, which saith—

82 There was in a city a judge which feared not God, neither regarded man.

83 And there was a widow in that city, and she came unto him, saying: Avenge me of mine adversary.

84 And he would not for a while, but afterward he said within himself: Though I fear not God, nor regard man, yet because this widow troubleth me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.

85 Thus will I liken the children of Zion.

Pray and not faint. Weary the Lord with your righteous desire! What righteous desire ought we to have?

D&C 93: 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am

This is what Nephi taught, which brings us back to the Book of Mormon, which we have treated lightly for not doing according to the words therein:

2 Nephi 32:6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh...

The Second Comforter

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

[marc]

As I have continually pondered this subject (I ponder this matter daily), I felt impressed to share this address given by Marion G. Romney back in 1977. It is arguably the last time an apostle has spoken on this matter since Joseph Smith. I haven't researched it, so maybe someone will feel free to challenge this, which I welcome. Since Joseph Smith, it has not been broached by anyone since scriptural history. Nephi boldly, yet plainly spoke of these things. Jesus Christ emphasized them to his saints at Bountiful in the flesh. I'm not concerned, however, about who was the last, the first, or how many have since addressed it as I am about the matter itself. So here President Romney's address in black and white:

The Light of Christ

...And I bear further witness that every such person who, having come this far, will follow the Prophet’s admonition to “continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 150), may obtain the more sure word of prophecy.

That the Lord will bless all of us priesthood bearers that we will so understand these great truths, that in the end we shall, by making our calling and election sure, enjoy the full light of Christ, I humbly pray, in the name of Jesus Christ, our Redeemer. Amen.

This address given is essentially identical to Nephi's final words to us before sealing on earth his writings.

[marc]

Update: The original link to President Benson's address "Keystone of our Religion" in my OP is no longer valid. Here is an updated link to that address given in the October 1986 General Conference:

The Book of Mormon—Keystone of Our Religion

What I just now realized was this seems like a follow up address to his first talk about our condemnation in the April 1986 General Conference earlier that year when he declared:

Now, in the authority of the sacred priesthood in me vested, I invoke my blessing upon the Latter-day Saints and upon good people everywhere.

I bless you with increased discernment to judge between Christ and anti-Christ. I bless you with increased power to do good and to resist evil. I bless you with increased understanding of the Book of Mormon. I promise you that from this moment forward, if we will daily sup from its pages and abide by its precepts, God will pour out upon each child of Zion and the Church a blessing hitherto unknown—and we will plead to the Lord that He will begin to lift the condemnation—the scourge and judgment. Of this I bear solemn witness.

He bore solemn witness to this. Since then, however, no other General Authority, to my knowledge has borne witness that our condemnation has been lifted. But President Benson does let us know in so many words that individually, a blessing (hitherto unknown) was from the moment he addressed us, made available.

To review and to summarize, here are his two conference addresses:

April 1986 A Sacred Responsibility

October 1986 The Book of Mormon—Keystone of Our Religion

[marc]

One final quote from his October address:

Over ten years ago I made the following statement regarding the Book of Mormon:

“Do eternal consequences rest upon our response to this book? Yes, either to our blessing or our condemnation.

“Every Latter-day Saint should make the study of this book a lifetime pursuit. Otherwise he is placing his soul in jeopardy and neglecting that which could give spiritual and intellectual unity to his whole life. There is a difference between a convert who is built on the rock of Christ through the Book of Mormon and stays hold of that iron rod, and one who is not” (Ensign, May 1975, p. 65).

I reaffirm those words to you this day. Let us not remain under condemnation, with its scourge and judgment, by treating lightly this great and marvelous gift the Lord has given to us. Rather, let us win the promises associated with treasuring it up in our hearts.

In the Doctrine and Covenants, section 84, verses 54 to 58, we read:

“And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

“Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

“And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

“And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

“That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.” [D&C 84:54–58]

[deep water]

Isaiah ch 1 v 6 Tells us how we are, the rest of ch 1 tells us who we are, and how to change who we are.
Chapter 1 is about two types of people. Those who have had the baptism of fire and those who have not.

[marc]

Until about two years ago, I was the latter of the two.

[lundbaek]

Maybe I'm going down a wrong path in my thinking, but I understand that if we are under condemnation, it is for disobedience to commandments/instructions that we have been given by the Lord. Forum member Chris Bentley, in his book "A Glorious Standard For All Mankind", suggested that our attitudes toward God’s commandments is that we can just pick and choose which ones we want to keep like they were some kind of smorgasbord of divine rules. We can all think of commandments/instructions given us by the Lord thru scriptures and prophets which are ignored and disobeyed by many Church members. Failure to diligently study the Book of Mormon easily comes to mind. But what of the others that have been and are still so flagrantly ignored and disobeyed ?

[Robert Sinclair]

This is what you as fellow servant can do,

you can weep and howl, and sound the alarm, and blow the trumpet in Zion about the "perversion of equity".

That the old men and administers of the law of God might give ear.

That the heads of Jacob and princes of the house of Israel and Ephraim might say "What have I to do anymore with idols?"

And give ear to the Lord and hearken unto his voice and bring his bride out of the closet.

That the words of Ezekiel 37:15-23 be fullfilled, where both Judah and Ephraim shall turn away from their idols and detestable things and their sins and serve God alone, as one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice and inheritances for all. ♡ ♡

[minorityofone]

It isn't just about individuals, the entire Mormon movement has been under a curse that is being lifted right now.

One good idea would be to actually follow the Book of Mormon and abandon the idea of polygamy and stop performing false polygamous sealings in the temple. Each and every time they do these things they defy the Book of Mormon. That is just the tip of the iceberg though. The LDS church is so far astray from teaching what is in the Book of Mormon. It is about as close to the Book of Mormon teachings as the Catholic Church is. Equidistant perhaps. The sacrament is about as far off in the LDS church as the Eucharist is. How priesthood is received and passed down is about the same. Baptism is nearly the same (no remission of sins or real testimony required) the Catholic Church may or may not be getting more revelation. The infallibility of the pope is about the same as the LDS prophets. I mean is there a whole lot of difference honestly? I have read of Catholics being baptized by fire and experiencing the Spirit powerfully. There is no lack of spirituality in the Catholic Church. There are visions of the Savior and healings etc.

[Robert Sinclair]

As Jesus Christ has said, his sheep hear his voice and hearken unto his voice. ♡ ♡

[pjbrownie]

In 3 Nephi 16:10, Christ outlines the sins that the Gentiles are committing, particularly, those that have the Gospel and are sinning against it, so it relates to a very specific group of Gentiles - namely, those that profess membership in God's true church and have accepted the covenant coming from the Book of Mormon.

"And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."

I think we can individually repent of these. Look at the list. How many of us are deceivers, hypocrites, liars, whore-mongers. All of us can repent of these and need to, and anymore on that list. There are some sins, however, that apply to the head, such as priestcrafts, secrets, deceits, etc. that they must answer for, if the head or organization is to be removed from condemnation.

[marc]

Maybe I'm going down a wrong path in my thinking, but I understand that if we are under condemnation, it is for disobedience to commandments/instructions that we have been given by the Lord...Failure to diligently study the Book of Mormon easily comes to mind. But what of the others that have been and are still so flagrantly ignored and disobeyed ?

48 And the Father teacheth him of the covenant which he has renewed and confirmed upon you, which is confirmed upon you for your sakes, and not for your sakes only, but for the sake of the whole world.

49 And the whole world lieth in sin, and groaneth under darkness and under the bondage of sin.

50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.

51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.

52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.

53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

58 That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.

59 For shall the children of the kingdom pollute my holy land? Verily, I say unto you, Nay.

This ties in with Jacob 5. The church/branches of the tree have become lofty and barren. God has done all He can to preserve the roots and branches in order to produce good fruit. We are at about verse 55-58 right now. The Lord made covenants with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His work is to restore us to those covenants, or rather, to give us the opportunity to become covenant people, even if by adoption. So the grafting begins that maybe an evil tree might be healed and begin to bring good fruit. He grafts the children back into the fathers, or rather, those natural shoots back into their mother tree, turning the hearts of the children to the fathers (prophets/patriarchs/covenants) and the hearts of the fathers to the children. But the tree MUST respond. We have our agency whether or not to respond and covenant by sacrifice. We've covenanted in the temple TO sacrifice, but we aren't covenanting BY sacrifice to bring forth the desired results. We are nowhere near Zion.

[lundbaek]

Since "The LDS Freedom Forum exists to provide an online home for individuals to associate and discuss Liberty in light of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ - this includes a myriad of topics related to the Gospel of Liberty (as some prophets have described the Gospel of Jesus Christ) and more.", I dare suggest here that part of our condemnation is due to our not having honoured our doctrinal imperative to preserve liberty.

[marc]

Which also ties to Ether 8. We have allowed secret combinations to get above us. America's days are numbered.

[lundbaek]

Even though members of the Church are commanded to awake to the awful situation and do what we can to prevent the secret combinations from getting above us, I can forgive that failure because of the deceptions that have prevented many of them from understanding who they really are. But I am having difficulty forgiving those who heard and/or read the Prophet say such things as "We, as Latter-day Saints, must be vigilant in doing our part to preserve the Constitution and safeguard the way of life it makes possible.", "We must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers," and "We must learn the principles of the Constitution and then abide by its precepts." That many, probably most American Mormons have ignored the admonitions to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution is evidenced by the support given by them to programs and legislation that are clear violations of constitutional principles, and by their support of politicians who promote and support egregious violations of the US Constitution. For example, in recent years prominent Mormons active in the political arena have supported such unconstitutional actions as undeclared wars, social and corporate welfare, foreign aid, infringements on the right to keep and bear arms, mandatory government-run healthcare, legislation which would allow homes to be entered and searched without probable cause and which would negate the right to trial and allow indefinite imprisonment (the Patriot Act), and legislation which would deny trial and the right of habeus corpus to persons accused (not found guilty) of perceived terrorism (the National Defense Authorization Act). Because of this failure on the part of the LDS people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.

[marc]

But watching TV is more important. Superbowl and excuses and stuff. We don't have time to "do" as the Lord said in the same verses, which declare our condemnation. That takes work and dedication and diligence. If we were diligent in reading and also doing, we would know what we are supposed to do.

D&C 98:4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.

9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

10 Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.

11 And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye shall live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God.

12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith.

13 And whoso layeth down his life in my cause, for my name’s sake, shall find it again, even life eternal.

14 Therefore, be not afraid of your enemies, for I have decreed in my heart, saith the Lord, that I will prove you in all things, whether you will abide in my covenant, even unto death, that you may be found worthy.

15 For if ye will not abide in my covenant ye are not worthy of me.

16 Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children...

23 Now, I speak unto you concerning your families—if men will smite you, or your families, once, and ye bear it patiently and revile not against them, neither seek revenge, ye shall be rewarded;

24 But if ye bear it not patiently, it shall be accounted unto you as being meted out as a just measure unto you.

25 And again, if your enemy shall smite you the second time, and you revile not against your enemy, and bear it patiently, your reward shall be an hundred-fold.

26 And again, if he shall smite you the third time, and ye bear it patiently, your reward shall be doubled unto you four-fold;

27 And these three testimonies shall stand against your enemy if he repent not, and shall not be blotted out.

28 And now, verily I say unto you, if that enemy shall escape my vengeance, that he be not brought into judgment before me, then ye shall see to it that ye warn him in my name, that he come no more upon you, neither upon your family, even your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.

29 And then, if he shall come upon you or your children, or your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation, I have delivered thine enemy into thine hands;

30 And then if thou wilt spare him, thou shalt be rewarded for thy righteousness; and also thy children and thy children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.

31 Nevertheless, thine enemy is in thine hands; and if thou rewardest him according to his works thou art justified; if he has sought thy life, and thy life is endangered by him, thine enemy is in thine hands and thou art justified.

32 Behold, this is the law I gave unto my servant Nephi, and thy fathers, Joseph, and Jacob, and Isaac, and Abraham, and all mine ancient prophets and apostles.

33 And again, this is the law that I gave unto mine ancients, that they should not go out unto battle against any nation, kindred, tongue, or people, save I, the Lord, commanded them.

34 And if any nation, tongue, or people should proclaim war against them, they should first lift a standard of peace unto that people, nation, or tongue;

35 And if that people did not accept the offering of peace, neither the second nor the third time, they should bring these testimonies before the Lord;

36 Then I, the Lord, would give unto them a commandment, and justify them in going out to battle against that nation, tongue, or people.

37 And I, the Lord, would fight their battles, and their children’s battles, and their children’s children’s, until they had avenged themselves on all their enemies, to the third and fourth generation.

38 Behold, this is an ensample unto all people, saith the Lord your God, for justification before me...

[Robert Sinclair]

I believe if people looked upon this earth from their ancient grandfathers hearts and eyes, they can see how disappointed Enoch and Abraham can be when they see their great grandchildren not realizing they all come from the same grandfathers who just want their decendants to love one another and care for one another and serve one another as one big happy family of God.

Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Christians and all the families of the earth can look to The Book of Enoch the Prophet and know his councel is for them. All are desendents from him.

What grandfather would be happy seeing his own decendants not love and care for one another?

And who wouldn't want their children and their children's children to be equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly?

Hearts and minds that care about how these ancient grandfathers feel, can help, I believe. ♡ ♡

Have a heart and mind and soul that cares, and can see and understand and testify of these things. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

If the House of Ephraim and invited guests would like to take their calling and election given of God to be an example of how by opening up their eyes and joining with the House of Judah and the other families from Enoch that have gathered upon this land to see that everyone was sought out to be given a safe place of sanctuary to dwell in of a home of their own, and employment and food and for raiment for whatever their needs and wants were, it would be good. The establishment of this equity in the land of promise is the very foundation of Zion for these latter days.

I hope leaders of wisdom and understanding and intelligence can be found to lead us in these things, even as Melchizedek and Enoch did in their days upon this earth. ♡ ♡

[EvenTheLeastSaint]

It isn't just about individuals, the entire Mormon movement has been under a curse that is being lifted right now.
...

I would really like to know what you mean by, "a curse that is being lifted right now". What is happening now that is causing it to be lifted?

Thanks,
EvenTheLeastSaint

[minorityofone]

It isn't just about individuals, the entire Mormon movement has been under a curse that is being lifted right now.
...

I would really like to know what you mean by, "a curse that is being lifted right now". What is happening now that is causing it to be lifted?

Thanks,
EvenTheLeastSaint

I think it is a combination of the generations that have passed. I think denver has taught a little about this. Also the people being sent to the earth, not that any of us are better than anyone before but timing is huge. The Lord promised a sore curse would come with polygamy in jacob 2. With the lifting of the curse we can expect another chance to receive the fulness and build up Zion, even better than that we can expect that it will be successful this time. As the curse is lifted greater knowledge is poured out and we will continue to see people waking up and shaking off the chains and shackles. It is not only in the Mormon movement either. People are stirring and there is a spiritual awakening among people in every religion across the world. We will see polarization like never before and miracles occurring. It is a good time to be alive!

[Robert Sinclair]

Learn and write down every single thing that Jesus Christ has said to do, and how to be, and what you should know, then do them, be those ways, and know and memorize all those things perfectly. This will then be your conscious and guide, his words from God. ♡ ♡

[marc]

BUMP

For Daryl.

[marc]

BUMP.

For Mark, viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40208" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Robert Sinclair]

Ephraim is under condemnation, because they have more witnesses than the Jews, and Muslims, and Christian nations of the earth to be equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, for homes and lands, as well as food and raiment, with the poor of their house, yes "All things common", testaments in the Book of Acts, The Book of 4th Nephi, and the law the church is to embrace in D&C 42, and the honor calling and election, and invitation given in 58 to prepare this feast of fat things for the poor, a wedding feast for the poor, as a gift, to the Lamb of God, and as is required in section 70, for the very foundation of the church of the living God, that none are exempt from, of being equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, that they have granted all exemption from, willingly walking away, to fullfill the words written, of this House of Ephraim perfectly.

Now that this whoredom has been completed, written of the word of the LORD unto Hosea, to fullfill the scriptures written about this house, let us all fast and pray, and weep and howl, and sound the alarm as the LORD has commanded of his sheep that hear his voice, that the old men and administers of the law may give ear, as is written in the Book of Isaiah and Joel, that Hosea 14:8 may finally be fullfilled, to the great joy of us all.♡

[deep water]

I got a shorter more consise answer as brevity is the essence of wit.

Where much is given much is expected. See that you do likewise.

njb

An even shorter and pertinent answer to the topic at hand:

"Read the Book of Mormon!"--President Ezra Taft Benson

This advice falls far short of what we need to do. We should search, seek, ponder every sentence through fasting and prayer and do as the Gospel requires that is found within. That includes the Book of Isaiah, that Christ requires of us.