The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure

[Robert Sinclair]

It is true, that from Peter's day that church he set up fell away, from all things common among them.

And it is true that once the fullness was set up by Jesus Christ among the Nephites of all things common among them, they had this until the 201st year had passed away, but then they began to fall away, becoming divided into classes of rich and poor.

But among the people of Joseph Smith, ever so quickly did they reject the fullness of the Gospel, never to return thus far.

Good to return, this coming October General Conference, that they also not remain joined with the Mother of Harlots and Whore of all the earth of inequality, and classes of rich and poor, but to become equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, as God has commanded. ♡

[Finrock]

How many people are called to lead the members of the Lord's church? Does it not stand to reason that all the holy prophets up to and including President Monson are the servants called by God to lead his people? Are they not easy to identify?

It sounds like you are saying that only men who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are God's servants. It sounds like you are saying that we can identify God's servants by their position and title in a church.

God says we can identify His servants by their fruits. God's servants are everywhere. We just have to be able to hear them. In order to hear them we must understand how God speaks. We need to learn to hear and to obey God's voice and then we will be able to hear and follow the voice of His servants.

We can know the truth of all things by the Spirit.

Not title or position makes one a servant of God. Being placed in to a position and being given a title does not make one so. My grandmother and mother raped me repeatedly between the ages of 4-6. They had the title and the position but they abused it. Titles and positions are meaningless unless the inward vessel is clean.

We don't need to reject God's servants just because they aren't speaking from the pulpit at general conference. As we learn to hear God's voice, we will learn to hear His servants, wherever they may be.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

It will help you if you do a personal hand written copy of everything Jesus Christ has said to do, and every single way that Jesus Christ has said to be like, and every single thing that Jesus Christ has said to know. Start with Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and 3rd Nephi. For the parables write down what you feel the message is Jesus is making.

Read this report over and over, day and night laboring to memorize all these things.

Then finish the balance of the "One Stick" of all these things as well.

Keep and treasure this report and xerox copies and store where you can refer to it often.

Also to help you listen to audio versions of the scriptures day and night while you are unable to read. You can even play the scriptures all night long on low in the background, saying your prayers at night, that the Lord will allow these words of his to enter into your heart.

Put his words you may struggle with upon your walls and doors and cabinets and anywhere it might help remind you to look, these are things Moses taught, of the Lord to help the people learn the words of God.

Once you have memorized all his words, you will see this is of more worth to your very soul, than all the wealth of the entire world, and no one will be able to mislead you, or take away this knowledge from you, if you always hold fast to the words of God given through the Savior of this world, even the LORD Jesus Christ.

Any man not doing all these things you will come to know perfectly.

Good to have this knowledge and follow these instructions yourself, keeping all his commandments, notwithstanding all those who will call you a fool and even worse, they may get angry at you and wish to harm you or even kill you, so be wise but harmless always watchful as Jesus Christ has said.

I am only a brother and fellow servant, but I do care and desire that others come to know these things as I have come to know them or even far greater.

May God bless you in this search of all his words of great counsel and commandments, that you may feed his sheep and help him in this great work, of redeeming and building Zion. ♡

Thanks, Robert! This is really good advice. I will need to start slow because I am so weak.

-Finrock

[Amonhi]

The verse you quoted says that if God's people hearken unto the voice of God and the voice of God's servants which he has appointed to lead God's people, God's people shall not be moved out of their place.

But, as I said earlier, I wholeheartedly agree that we should hearken unto the voice of God's servants if God's servants are speaking to us or leading us. The question at hand, however, is how does one identify who God's servants are? How can I identify God's servants? Or I mean more generally, how can anyone identify God's servants? Is it by title? By position? By what standard do we tell who is God's servant?

-Finrock

Finrock,

You ask a very important question. I answer it here: Recognizing Servants of God

Hope that helps...

Peace,
Amonhi

[Finrock]

The verse you quoted says that if God's people hearken unto the voice of God and the voice of God's servants which he has appointed to lead God's people, God's people shall not be moved out of their place.

But, as I said earlier, I wholeheartedly agree that we should hearken unto the voice of God's servants if God's servants are speaking to us or leading us. The question at hand, however, is how does one identify who God's servants are? How can I identify God's servants? Or I mean more generally, how can anyone identify God's servants? Is it by title? By position? By what standard do we tell who is God's servant?

-Finrock

Finrock,

You ask a very important question. I answer it here: Recognizing Servants of God

Hope that helps...

Peace,
Amonhi

Hi Amonhi,

I have read some of your posts for the first time a few days ago and I have felth much truth in them. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.

-Finrock

[freedomforall]

How many people are called to lead the members of the Lord's church? Does it not stand to reason that all the holy prophets up to and including President Monson are the servants called by God to lead his people? Are they not easy to identify?

It sounds like you are saying that only men who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are God's servants. It sounds like you are saying that we can identify God's servants by their position and title in a church. We agree, it does sound like. Servants of God better be just that, servants of God, not a wolf in sheep's clothing. If a person preaches other than faith, hope, charity, repentance and in keeping the Lord's commandments, they are not his servant. However, a prophet in the Lord's church has to be called of him to act as such, coupled with the necessary keys to be a prophet, seer and revelator. Our missionaries are servants as well. Bishops, Stake Presidents and area GA's are servants. But don't get me wrong, many a bishop and other officials called to be leaders have left the church, relinquishing all authority in doing so. They acted on Satan's promptings to leave the church, this is on them. Sexual sin is another way to lose discipleship for any of us.

God says we can identify His servants by their fruits. God's servants are everywhere. We just have to be able to hear them. In order to hear them we must understand how God speaks. We need to learn to hear and to obey God's voice and then we will be able to hear and follow the voice of His servants. Just like the prophetess's in the bible. Exodus 15:20 and Judg 4:4. And in the BoM: Alma 32:23

We can know the truth of all things by the Spirit. For sure and for certain.

Not title or position makes one a servant of God. Being placed in to a position and being given a title does not make one so. My grandmother and mother raped me repeatedly between the ages of 4-6. They had the title and the position but they abused it. Titles and positions are meaningless unless the inward vessel is clean. Those who rape are not servants of God.

We don't need to reject God's servants just because they aren't speaking from the pulpit at general conference. As we learn to hear God's voice, we will learn to hear His servants, wherever they may be. Let's not confuse servants of God with prophets of the Lord. Not all servants can prophesy, look into the future, past or present or reveal future events.

Servants of God better be just as the title says...to be true "servants." Let's remember that Satan has servants in the flesh as well. This is where "by their fruits" comes into play. A repentant sinner striving to be right under God is one thing, but a sinner obeying the commands of Satan is something to run from. The righteous can usually discern the wicked if they're in tune with the HG. Where I take issue, is in people high on themselves that are quick and ready to pounce on anyone they see committing sin or even suspect it. They jump on it like stink on a rag as if they are judge and jury, forgetting to notice that in the heart of many sinners exists a strong desire to please God. Such a man was Nephi, a prophet that lamented over sins that easily beset him, yet would cry unto the Lord and ask for forgiveness. Isn't this what all righteous sinners and true servants of God should do?
-Finrock

[freedomforall]

Jacob 5 tells us all about who God's servants are and what they do.

Listen here: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/jac ... sten=audio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Amonhi]

bump...

[BruceRGilbert]

Doctrine and Covenants 88:
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

"in his own time, in his own way, and according to his own will." How many trust God to allow Him to make the determination as to the time, the way, and will in which He will reveal Himself?

Many have been deceived by false spirits going forth unto the world and many have witnessed things that are not of God . . . because they sought for "signs" and manifestations. Many have been turned over to their own lusts.

[Amonhi]

Doctrine and Covenants 88:
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

"in his own time, in his own way, and according to his own will." How many trust God to allow Him to make the determination as to the time, the way, and will in which He will reveal Himself?

Many have been deceived by false spirits going forth unto the world and many have witnessed things that are not of God . . . because they sought for "signs" and manifestations. Many have been turned over to their own lusts.

We are told to...ask...

Matthew 7:7
7 ¶Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Doctrine and Covenants 11:5

5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.
JST, Matthew 7:12
12 Say unto them, Ask of God; ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 4:7
7 Ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Amen.

Luke 11:9
9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 6:5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

3 Nephi 27:29
29 Therefore, ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you; for he that asketh, receiveth; and unto him that knocketh, it shall be opened.

3 Nephi 14:7
7 Ask, and it shall be given unto you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 14:5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

Revelation 3:20
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Doctrine and Covenants 75:27
27 Let them ask and they shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto them, and be made known from on high, even by the Comforter, whither they shall go.

2 Nephi 32:4
4 Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark.

Luke 13:25
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Doctrine and Covenants 66:9
9 Lay your hands upon the sick, and they shall recover. Return not till I, the Lord, shall send you. Be patient in affliction. Ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 49:26
26 Behold, I say unto you, go forth as I have commanded you; repent of all your sins; ask and ye shall receive; knock and it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:63
63 Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

[Kitkat]

Doctrine and Covenants 88:
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

"in his own time, in his own way, and according to his own will." How many trust God to allow Him to make the determination as to the time, the way, and will in which He will reveal Himself?

Many have been deceived by false spirits going forth unto the world and many have witnessed things that are not of God . . . because they sought for "signs" and manifestations. Many have been turned over to their own lusts.

I think this is a great point and worthy of discussion. How do you avoid being deceived?

[freedomforall]

Doctrine and Covenants 88:
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

"in his own time, in his own way, and according to his own will." How many trust God to allow Him to make the determination as to the time, the way, and will in which He will reveal Himself?

Many have been deceived by false spirits going forth unto the world and many have witnessed things that are not of God . . . because they sought for "signs" and manifestations. Many have been turned over to their own lusts.

I think this is a great point and worthy of discussion. How do you avoid being deceived?

D&C 46:8,9,23
8 Wherefore, beware lest ye are deceived; and that ye may not be deceived seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given;
9 For verily I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments, and him that seeketh so to do; that all may be benefited that seek or that ask of me, that ask and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts.

23 And to others the discerning of spirits.
Please read the whole section.

Moses 1:15 (13–15)
13 And it came to pass that Moses looked upon Satan and said: Who art thou? For behold, I am a son of God, in the similitude of his Only Begotten; and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee?
14 For behold, I could not look upon God, except his glory should come upon me, and I were transfigured before him. But I can look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so, surely?
15 Blessed be the name of my God, for his Spirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is thy glory, for it is darkness unto me? And I can judge between thee and God; for God said unto me: Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve.

[Amonhi]

Doctrine and Covenants 88:
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

"in his own time, in his own way, and according to his own will." How many trust God to allow Him to make the determination as to the time, the way, and will in which He will reveal Himself?

Many have been deceived by false spirits going forth unto the world and many have witnessed things that are not of God . . . because they sought for "signs" and manifestations. Many have been turned over to their own lusts.

I think this is a great point and worthy of discussion. How do you avoid being deceived?

Good Question! Here is a post from EvenTheLeastSaint that answers this...

I will quote a scripture that tells us plainly, without equivocation, without leaving us with something that must be assumed to arrive at our conclusion, and leaving nothing to our own interpretation, this scripture tells us precisely what it is that we must follow. I don't know if anyone on this thread has quoted this scripture yet but if so it can't hurt to quote it again:

D&C 45:

56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived -- verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.
58 And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.
59 For the Lord shall be in their midst, and his glory shall be upon them, and he will be their king and their lawgiver.

This says we must take the Holy Spirit for a guide, not a man or men (arm of flesh), not an organization, but the Holy Spirit. Can anything be clearer than that? Can anyone point to scripture that in such unmistakeable words says we must "follow the prophet", or we must "take the prophet for a guide" or we will not receive the truth, and we will be deceived. These verses, in fact, tell us that if we take anything other than the Holy Spirit for a guide we WILL NOT receive the truth, and we WILL be deceived. So please find me scripture that says in these words "follow the prophet". I don't mean something that lets someone loosely overlay his or her own paradigm onto scripture; such as "Jacob followed Nephi's command THEREFORE we must always follow the prophet without question".

I have quoted something that Amonhi said above because it fits with the scripture that I quoted and it is a perfect explanation of why it is so critical that we take the Holy Spirit and nothing else for a guide. I hope he doesn't mind.

...
If you do not have oil in your lamp enough to guide yourself without relying on the light of others, then you will not be welcomed when the groom comes. You will not have a place in the Celestial Kingdom with the Gods. If you cannot hear the voice of the Lord and trust him, then you will not be accepted by him as his sheep and his church that worship in his name. It doesn't matter if you are baptized into the LDS Church or how well you follow the prophets and leaders of the church. What matters is how well you follow the spirit... How well you follow HIS Voice and His words... How well you " do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall commands". If you place a man, any man even a prophet, above the spirit, and give that man more influence in your life than you give the spirit, then you have placed a man above God voice and God's voice is God's will.
...

Peace,
Amonhi

[freedomforall]

Another way to avoid being deceived is to feast upon the word so that the word becomes embedded in the mind. Then when others come along, say onto LDS forums, and spews doctrine not fitting to be learned from, then deceptive doctrine can be caught and corrected. How and why? Because the Holy Ghost confirms truth, both to the reader/teacher and to the learner/hearer to the edification of both.

[Amonhi]

Another way to avoid being deceived is to feast upon the word so that the word becomes embedded in the mind. Then when others come along, say onto LDS forums, and spews doctrine not fitting to be learned from, then deceptive doctrine can be caught and corrected. How and why? Because the Holy Ghost confirms truth, both to the reader/teacher and to the learner/hearer to the edification of both.

Darn, you did it again! I completely agree!
+1

Peace,
Amonhi

[Alaris]

Doctrine and Covenants 88:
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

"in his own time, in his own way, and according to his own will." How many trust God to allow Him to make the determination as to the time, the way, and will in which He will reveal Himself?

Many have been deceived by false spirits going forth unto the world and many have witnessed things that are not of God . . . because they sought for "signs" and manifestations. Many have been turned over to their own lusts.

I think this is a great point and worthy of discussion. How do you avoid being deceived?

Good Question! Here is a post from EvenTheLeastSaint that answers this...

I will quote a scripture that tells us plainly, without equivocation, without leaving us with something that must be assumed to arrive at our conclusion, and leaving nothing to our own interpretation, this scripture tells us precisely what it is that we must follow. I don't know if anyone on this thread has quoted this scripture yet but if so it can't hurt to quote it again:

D&C 45:

56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived -- verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.
58 And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.
59 For the Lord shall be in their midst, and his glory shall be upon them, and he will be their king and their lawgiver.

This says we must take the Holy Spirit for a guide, not a man or men (arm of flesh), not an organization, but the Holy Spirit. Can anything be clearer than that? Can anyone point to scripture that in such unmistakeable words says we must "follow the prophet", or we must "take the prophet for a guide" or we will not receive the truth, and we will be deceived. These verses, in fact, tell us that if we take anything other than the Holy Spirit for a guide we WILL NOT receive the truth, and we WILL be deceived. So please find me scripture that says in these words "follow the prophet". I don't mean something that lets someone loosely overlay his or her own paradigm onto scripture; such as "Jacob followed Nephi's command THEREFORE we must always follow the prophet without question".

I have quoted something that Amonhi said above because it fits with the scripture that I quoted and it is a perfect explanation of why it is so critical that we take the Holy Spirit and nothing else for a guide. I hope he doesn't mind.

...
If you do not have oil in your lamp enough to guide yourself without relying on the light of others, then you will not be welcomed when the groom comes. You will not have a place in the Celestial Kingdom with the Gods. If you cannot hear the voice of the Lord and trust him, then you will not be accepted by him as his sheep and his church that worship in his name. It doesn't matter if you are baptized into the LDS Church or how well you follow the prophets and leaders of the church. What matters is how well you follow the spirit... How well you follow HIS Voice and His words... How well you " do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall commands". If you place a man, any man even a prophet, above the spirit, and give that man more influence in your life than you give the spirit, then you have placed a man above God voice and God's voice is God's will.
...

Peace,
Amonhi

The Holy Spirit communicates to our souls - those who have received testimony of the spirit have effectively awakened a 6th sense that is more powerful than any of the other 5 senses. Prophets may reveal truth and direction - but neither truth nor direction will profit us if we do not have an active relationship with the Holy Ghost that we may use the term "guide" to define said relationship. That does not reduce the importance of the role of the Prophet, but increases the importance of the relationship with the Spirit.

EDIT:

As you hone and develop this relationship, I believe it would be very difficult for the adversary to pop in and emulate communion with the Holy Spirit.

[Serve]

We are all deceived there is only one that was not deceived the Savior if we listen to the prophets to guide us and let the spirit testify of the truth then we will be on the right path how do you no the difference from the deception of Satan and the spirit except you put out rules to know the difference Saran claims to be the Gid of this land so he is going to protray the spirit as much as he can and some of the very elect will be deceived all but three witnesses of the Book of Mormon was deceived and the list goes on if you do not think you can be deceived then you are all ready deceived rule number one the prophet cannot lead us asrtray if he attempts to he will die this was a rule determined in the preexsistance just like the spirt of the lord will have a form of a dove these cannot be altered by Satan

[Amonhi]

bump

[Finrock]

We are all deceived there is only one that was not deceived the Savior if we listen to the prophets to guide us and let the spirit testify of the truth then we will be on the right path how do you no the difference from the deception of Satan and the spirit except you put out rules to know the difference Saran claims to be the Gid of this land so he is going to protray the spirit as much as he can and some of the very elect will be deceived all but three witnesses of the Book of Mormon was deceived and the list goes on if you do not think you can be deceived then you are all ready deceived rule number one the prophet cannot lead us asrtray if he attempts to he will die this was a rule determined in the preexsistance just like the spirt of the lord will have a form of a dove these cannot be altered by Satan

And yet we have examples of prophets leading us astray and not dying. Brigham Young taught doctrine that has now been denounced. Millions of individuals believed BY's false doctrine. He continued to be the leader of the Mormon Church. He did not die even though BY taught false doctrine. That's just one example.

Your theory has too many exceptions, special rules, and contradictions to be reliable.

The Spirit matters most. It is a tough road. A lonely road. It requires eternal vigilance; guts, strength, and courage to obey the Spirit no matter what.

-Finrock

[Amonhi]

bump

[freedomforall]

We are all deceived. There is only one that was not deceived, the Savior. If we listen to the prophets to guide us and let the spirit testify of the truth then we will be on the right path. How do you know the difference from the deception of Satan and the spirit, except you put out rules to know the difference? Satan claims to be the God of this land, so he is going to portray the spirit as much as he can and some of the very elect will be deceived. All but three witnesses of the Book of Mormon were deceived and the list goes on. If you do not think you can be deceived then you are all ready deceived. Rule number one, the prophet cannot lead us astray. If he attempts to he will die. This was a rule determined in the preexistence just like the spirit of the lord will have a form of a dove. These cannot be altered by Satan

Not to insult, rather, to bring out clarity of thought and understanding.

Which of these following two statements is the correct one?
We are all deceived.
If you do not think you can be deceived then you are all ready deceived.

the spirit of the lord will have a form of a dove. Is this what you mean to say?

Dove, sign of

A prearranged means by which John the Baptist would recognize the Messiah at Jesus’ baptism (John 1:32–34). “The sign of the dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, and the devil cannot come in the sign of a dove. … The sign of a dove was given to John to signify the truth of the deed, as the dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence” (Joseph Smith, HC 5:261). See 1 Ne. 11:27; 2 Ne. 31:8; D&C
93:15; Abr., fac. 2, fig. 7. Though we usually associate the sign of the dove with John the Baptist, from the latter reference we learn that it was manifested to Abraham also. We suppose that it has been similarly made known to other prophets on occasion since the time of Adam.

Holy Ghost, Dove, Sign of

Spirit of God descending like a dove: Matt. 3:16 . ( Mark 1:10 ; Luke 3:22 ; John 1:32 . )

abide upon him in the form of a dove: 1 Ne. 11:27 .
Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove: 2 Ne. 31:8 . ( D&C 93:15 . )

sign of the Holy Ghost … in the form of a dove: Abr., fac. 2, fig. 7 .

[seekingtruth]

Amonhi, thank you for this thread :ymhug:

I've been giving it the side eye for a while seeing how there's almost 50 pages and didn't want to commit the time but I'm so thankful that I finally did! The spirit has brought to my attention many gems shared by you and others throughout this thread that the fire in my belly has been lit to work out my salvation with the Lord as fast as I'm able!

[Amonhi]

Seeking truth, :ymhug: You are so welcome. I wrote this just for you, so I am glad you enjoyed it! ;)

I just got another PM today from another member of this forum that received a confirmation that they have their C&E made sure. It is so exciting to get those. I am sure to tell them to go back to the Lord in prayer again and again asking for answers to their questions, guidance and direction. In the temple we speak with the Lord through the veil until we are brought back into His presence. That is what we are doing here.

The blessings given or pronounced in the temple endowment which are the name of the second sign of the Melchizedek Priesthood are perfectly matched up to the blessings received with our calling and election. We cannot get the name of sign from anyone except directly from the Lord through the veil. Once we have the blessing, IF we continue to converse with the Lord through the veil, the veil will become thinner and thinner until it is removed entirely.

I wanted to make a different point on this post.

There are a number of people who disagree with this process provided in this thread which claims to be the fastest way from where ever you are in your progression to making your calling and election sure. Essentially they tell people NOT to pray to God for a witness of the truth of their standing before God or personalized direction from God so they can know exactly what God says they are lacking.

If a person can pray to know if the church is true, and they can expect to get a reliable answer they can trust, then can a person pray to know if they have their calling and election made sure and get a reliable answer the same way? What do you think?

Moroni's promise says,

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. - Moroni 10

Don't you think that if you can't trust this process, then you can't trust the process by which you know the book of Mormon is true and the process by which you know the church is true...

To deny the process recommended in this thread is to deny the process used to gain a witness of so many things. How can a person say that the process can work to gain a witness of the church but not a witness of your own standing before God.

Peace,
Amonhi

[marc]

I would like to share a very brief part of my experience.

I had first learned about this principle on my mission back in the late 80s. Over time the Lord prepared me to make sacrifices and learn what all this meant. On October 19, 2016, after obeying the Lord and testifying to a coworker the things the Lord put into my mouth, on my way to my car in the parking lot after work, as I pondered everything that had just happened, the Lord interrupted my thoughts and spoke to me saying, "today, I covenant with thee thou shalt have eternal life." When I heard this, my heart suddenly felt so much joy and peace that it felt like it would leap out of my chest and soar through the sky. That's the only way I know how to describe how I felt.

"Now, there is some grand secret here, and keys to unlock the subject. Notwithstanding the apostle exhorts them to add to their faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, etc., yet he exhorts them to make their calling and election sure. And though they had heard an audible voice from heaven bearing testimony that Jesus was the Son of God, yet he says we have a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed as unto a light shining in a dark place. Now, wherein could they have a more sure word of prophecy than to hear the voice of God saying, This is my beloved Son?

Now for the secret and grand key. Though they might hear the voice of God and know that Jesus was the Son of God, this would be no evidence that their calling and election was made sure, that they were sealed in the heavens and had the promise of eternal life in the kingdom of God. Then, having this promised sealed unto them, it was an anchor to the soul, sure and steadfast. Though the thunders might roll and lightnings flash, and earthquakes bellow, and war gather thick around, yet this hope and knowledge would support the soul in every hour of trial, trouble and tribulation. Then knowledge through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the grand key that unlocks the glories and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. – Joseph Smith, TPJS p. 298

About five years ago in prayer to the Lord about this matter, I felt the Spirit confirm my desires, and I had mistaken this for the event. It wasn't until the Lord spoke last October to me that I gained that knowledge; that anchor to my soul, sure and steadfast.

[Amonhi]

I would like to share a very brief part of my experience.

I had first learned about this principle on my mission back in the late 80s. Over time the Lord prepared me to make sacrifices and learn what all this meant. On October 19, 2016, after obeying the Lord and testifying to a coworker the things the Lord put into my mouth, on my way to my car in the parking lot after work, as I pondered everything that had just happened, the Lord interrupted my thoughts and spoke to me saying, "today, I covenant with thee thou shalt have eternal life." When I heard this, my heart suddenly felt so much joy and peace that it felt like it would leap out of my chest and soar through the sky. That's the only way I know how to describe how I felt.

"Now, there is some grand secret here, and keys to unlock the subject. Notwithstanding the apostle exhorts them to add to their faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, etc., yet he exhorts them to make their calling and election sure. And though they had heard an audible voice from heaven bearing testimony that Jesus was the Son of God, yet he says we have a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed as unto a light shining in a dark place. Now, wherein could they have a more sure word of prophecy than to hear the voice of God saying, This is my beloved Son?

Now for the secret and grand key. Though they might hear the voice of God and know that Jesus was the Son of God, this would be no evidence that their calling and election was made sure, that they were sealed in the heavens and had the promise of eternal life in the kingdom of God. Then, having this promised sealed unto them, it was an anchor to the soul, sure and steadfast. Though the thunders might roll and lightnings flash, and earthquakes bellow, and war gather thick around, yet this hope and knowledge would support the soul in every hour of trial, trouble and tribulation. Then knowledge through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the grand key that unlocks the glories and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. – Joseph Smith, TPJS p. 298

About five years ago in prayer to the Lord about this matter, I felt the Spirit confirm my desires, and I had mistaken this for the event. It wasn't until the Lord spoke last October to me that I gained that knowledge; that anchor to my soul, sure and steadfast.

This was beautiful! Thank you for sharing such a personal experience!

I know that a number of people, including Joseph Smith as documented in the D&C, receive the promise or have it reconfirmed multiple times. I was talking to someone the other day who had received the promise and wrote it in their journal along with the specific words given to them by the Lord and then again 2 months later they were given the promise again. They didn't recognize it the first time and could hardly believe it the second time, so they studied on the subject for a week and concluded that the wording, just like the ones given to you could have no other meaning than the promise. At the moment that they accepted the promise, they got another witness and were filled with the same feelings you seem to be expressing in your story. They were filled with the spirit and said, "I felt like I was floating off the ground!" They felt gratitude and thanked and praised God. Everything was bright like it was glowing. But the promise was given 2 months before, and again and it wasn't until they fully received it that it was completed and they had the experience or rejoicing.

I know others who ask the question and get the answer and begin crying and rejoicing and are filled with the spirit right there and the heavens are opened and they commune with the Lord and hear his voice.

We each travel a different path because we each come from a different starting point, with different weaknesses and different challenges. The Lord knows us and our needs and the fastest path from where we are to were we want to go. If we can trust in Him and His direction, then we can travel that path guided by His knowing hand.

If we cannot trust him and allow Him to guide us, then I do not know if we can ever make our calling and election sure.

I take notice, that you (Marc), were speaking the words of the Lord as inspired by the Holy Ghost. You were speaking for the Lord to your coworker and I have no doubt that your words touched them and they felt the spirit of your message. You were in tune with the Spirit and perfectly ready to receive the word of the Lord to you directly. The promise must be sealed by the Holy Spirit and so we must be close to the spirit to receive the promise and have it sealed.

Again, thank you Marc for sharing your experience. I hope that it will bless the lives of many.

Peace,
Amonhi