The Doctrine of Eternal Lives...

[Kingdom of ZION]

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
D&C 132 [bolding added]

Let us discuss what the difference is of Eternal Life verses Eternal Lives?

1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:1-17 [bolding added]

How can a man be born again? That is the Mystery of Godliness!

[Original_Intent]

spirit birth.

[jdtech]

Hi Kingdom - I have some serious questions regarding a previous post of yours in another thread. Since you have begun this new thread, I thought my questions might relate ...

Interesting topic. At this late point in this creation, looking for the sacred patterns is a more sure way to fined the path and to see how prophesied future events will come forth.

Here is a example a sacred pattern found in every dispensation of the world. There is always four beings who are sent down, servants of Adonia and who are usually listed in the historical records or the Scriptures, to head each dispensation as a Dispensation Presidency.

I'm not familiar with this "Adonia" term. Can you please elaborate? (scriptural sources would be preferred )

There is a Prophet, Priest, and King and a Witness. The world know of the three but most over look the fourth calling, as this pattern was not known to the kingdom of Judah. The Jews know to look for the three servants that come in a Dispensation... the Prophet, Priest, and King. But the fourth, the Witness, he comes as a witness of the other three. When John the Baptist came in the meridian of time, we have a record of the Jews questioning John to see if He is one of the three they knew to look for. The record is found in the testament of John 1st chapter. As you can see there is no mention of a fourth that they were looking for:

19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ [the King].
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias [the Priest]? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet [for he was a Prophet but they were asking him if he was a Dispensation Prophet]? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias [I am the witness!].
24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet [by what authority do you do ordinances if you are not one of a Dispensation Presidency]
John 1:19-25 Comments added in brackets

John the Baptist was that hidden holy portion, the forth of the Dispensation Presidency. Even in the LDS Temple, they have Peter, James, and John who come down in allegory of the Prophet, Priest, and King, but there is no mention of a fourth servant.

Here are some keys whereby one might discern a Dispensation Presidency...

The King is always an Arch Angel.
The Priest and King are always related by blood; Father Son, Brothers or Half Brothers.
The Priest and King are always taken in the same manner, translated or martyred. The next Dispensation, they will receive both... translated and then martyred.
The Prophet is militant, and upon him is the church established.
The Prophet is the rock or the stone.
The Prophet and Witness will never rebel against the Priest and King.

Are you indicating that Joseph Smith was an Arch Angel?
What does it mean to be an Arch Angel anyway?

There are a total of eight Dispensations... Five have pasted and Three more are yet to come.

1st Adam and Seth... They were a King and Priest
2nd Noah and Shem... They were a King and Priest. Shem was also Melchizedek who would be born again and come as Jehoshua, the Messiah. Fifth Estate Beings come down three times in one Creation, once as a Telestial Being, once as a Terrestrial Being, and once as a Celestial Being.
3rd Moses and Aaron... They were a King and Priest. Joshua and Caleb were the Prophet and Witness in Moses Dispensation.
4th Jesus and James... James was His halve Brother, he was the first Bishop of Jerusalem and he was also martyred.
5th Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith... They were a King and Priest. Who were the Witness and Prophet of Joseph Smith, Jun. Dispensation? And how we know that the LDS Church was the true church established after the Dispensation Priest and King were taken (martyred). Who followed the sacred pattern?

Are you saying that individuals can be physically born again? Jehoshua - seems a combination of Jesus and Joshua - is also not a familiar name. If you are saying that Jehoshua is the Messiah, which is Christ, are you saying that he had previously already lived on this earth?

5th Dispensation - Joseph Smith / Hyrum Smith as you indicated would be the King / Priest, and it would seem that Brigham Young and perhaps Heber C Kimball??? were the prophet and witness? Is this what you were inferring?

There is a Dispensation about to come forth, but it has not come forth as of yet. Joseph Smith's Dispensation was the "Dispensation of the Fulness of the Times of the Gentiles" or just the "Dispensation of the Times of the Gentiles".

How long is a "dispensation"? The previous ones covered hundreds, if not thousands of years. If we are in the "preparation" phase for the 2nd coming of Christ, it appears like the "dispensation of the Times of the Gentiles" will be very short lived...as well as the next one you mention...

The next Dispensation is the "Dispensation of the gathering of the Elect (Yesrael) from the four corners of the earth and the establishment of Zion". In the Jewish calendar of the world, it is the Rosh Hashanah (Hebrew: ראש השנה‎), literally "head of the year" and is one of Jewish New Years. This is the Political New Year where the Kingdom of ZION will be established and Zion will come forth. The Davidic Servant is the Dispensation King and he will be eventually called the Davidic King. He was and also is Elijah, the forerunner of the Messiah. He comes to prepares the way for the true King, the Messiah.

When is the "head of the year" in the Jewish calendar?

Since we still have the church that Joseph Smith restored, with its authorized prophets and apostles, how does a new dispensation head (the "King") fit into this? Is he duly called and sustained as one of the 12 apostles, and then as the prophet?

The next Dispensation is the "Dispensation of the Fullness of Times", it is the Millennial Dispensation and Enoch or Raphael will be the King.

Uh...you lost me here. Isn't Christ supposed to be the King during the Millennium?

And then after the Millennium world, when the world is Celestialized and it rests for another thousand years, the Great Jehovah (not the Messiah, His Grandfather) will be the King of that Dispensation, the "Dispensation of the Coming of the Great God".

Again - where are you getting this? How is the "Great Jehovah" and "Jehovah" different? Wasn't Christ the God of the old and new testaments?

I definitely have more questions...but I think this is a good starting point...

Most importantly, please indicate where in the scriptures / sayings of the prophets your information is coming from.

[AshleyB]

Yes, so I always considered those verses to be talking about the Spiritual re-birth as well. But there are some quotes and things that seem to speak about this. I will post some of them from the book: The doctrine of Eternal lives. I bought the book months ago but I haven't been able to finish reading it yet. I'm only a few chapters in...

But here are a few quotes from it:

David, King of Israel
"Thou, which hast shewed me many great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up againfrom the depths of the earth." (Psalms 71:20)

Apostle Matthew
"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his desciples. how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and cheif preists and scribes, and be killed and be raised again the third day." (Matthew 16:21)

"But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee." (Matthew 26:32)

Joseph Smith

"And he hath risen again from the dead, that he might bring all men unto him, on conditions of repentance." (D&C 20:22-23)

"God has revealed His son from the heavens and the doctrine of the ressurection also, and we have a knowledge that those we bury here God will bring up again, clothed upon and quickened by the spirit of the great God, and what mattereth it whether we lay them down, or we lay down with them, when we may even here begin to enjoy that which shall be in full hereafter. (HC 5:362)

"Would to God, Brethren, I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you would call it blasphemy, and there are men upon this earth stand who would want to take my life." (Joseph Smith Junior - as quoted by Heber C. KImball, Life of Heber C. Kimball by Orson F. Whitney, pp 322-323)

Brigham Young

The clay that was marred in the potters hands was thrown back into the unprepared portion, to be prepared over again. So it will be with every wicked man and woman, and every wicked nation, kingdom, and government on the earth, sooner or later; they will be thrown back to the native element from which they originated, to be worked over again, and be prepared to enjoy some sort of kingdom." (JD 2:124)

Herber C. Kimball

"Upon the same principle supposing I have a lump of clay which I put upon my wheel, out of which clay I want to make a jug; I have to turn it into as many as 50 or 100 shapes before I get it into a jug. How many shapes do you suppose you are put into before you became Saints, or before you become perfect and sanctified to enter into the celestial glory of God? You have got to be like that clay in the hands of the potter. Do you not know that the Lord directed the prophet anciently, to go down to the potter's house to see a miracle on the wheel?

Suppose the potter takes a lump of clay, and putting it on the wheel, goes to work to form it into a vessel, and workis it out this way, and that way, and the other way, but the clay is refractory and snappish, he still trys it, but it will break, ans snap, and snarl, and thus the potter will work it and work it until he is satisfied he cannot bring it into the shape he wants, and it mars upon the wheell; he takes his tool, then and cuts it off the wheel, and thows it into the mill to be ground over again, until it becomes passive, (don't you think you will go to hell if you are not passive?) and after it is ground there so many days, and it becomes passive, he takes the same lump, and makes of it a vessel unto honor.

Now do you see into that brethren? I know the potters can. I tell you, brethren, if you are not passive you will have to go into that mill, and perhaps have to grind there one thousand years, and then the Gospel will be offered to you again, and then if you will not accept of it and become passive, you will have to go into the mill again, and thus you will have offers of salvation from time to time, until all the human family, except the sons of perdition, are redeemed. The spirits of men will have the Gospel as we do, and they are to be judged according to men in the flesh. Let us be passive, and take a course that will be perfectly submissive. "
(JD 1:161)


So those are just a couple of excerpts and quotes from the book but it is chock full of stuff that is supposed to be pertaining to this topic. Lets see if my mind is on the track of others.... The potters wheel analogy is in this book more then once and spoken about by several of the brethren. To me, from this analogy and other things I have read it sounds like they are saying that we have to keep coming back to earth or our native element that we came from to be sculpted and tested and tried until we become perfectly submissive and how many times that takes depends on us? And if we dont accept the gospel we are then thrown in hell for a time and offered the opportunity to repent and accept the plan of salvation by being thrown back to earth to be born again? Im confused though because I also read that re-incarnation is a false doctrine and would this not be re-incarnation or are these doctrines somehow different or am I missing something? Either way I am intrigued and my mind is once again spinning its wheels. There is a lot to search ponder and pray about just on this topic alone.

[Kingdom of ZION]

Eternal Life is what Third Estate Beings receive in the Millennium. The average mean temperature of a Telestial World is 70 degrees, a Terrestrial World is 700 hundred degrees, and a Celestial World is 7000 degrees. The Millennial World is a fire based world, beings who are born [reborn or in other words Born Again] into that world can see heaven [the Father and the Son] at a distance [over yonder]. The are born in the Morning of the First Resurrection, they are First Born's, Light Bearers, members of the church of the Firstborn, Just Men.

Eternal Lives is Fourth Estate Beings who have passed the test of a Millennial World, haven keep there Chastity [Third Estate Covenant] and have past on to come down three times in three Creations. Fourth Estate Beings wear a green apron that has nine fig leaves on it, that represent the nine times they must come down into a world like this and cover their nakedness. The sign of Fourth Estate Beings also teaches this in allegory.

To ascend above all things you must descend below all things,
to become an Eternal Father, you must become an Eternal Son,
and you must pay the Eternal Sacrifice that every God before you has paid,
receiving all the markings of a God in the flesh, all eight,
coming up to the true Eternal Resurrection of the Body,
leaving the path of Estates of Probation to the Estates of Progression,
to one day enter into the Celestial World, no more go out,
this is Gods Eternal.. and their glory [their offspring and eternal increase].

[SpeedRacer]

The doctrine of Eternal Lives has always been explained to me as the type of life God lives, meaning he has eternal increase in glory through his eternal posterity. It is the glory from posterity that constitutes eternal lives. The glory comes about by their becoming like him and one with him, and such an existence is offered to us.

[mes5464]

Eternal Life is what Third Estate Beings receive in the Millennium. The average mean temperature of a Telestial World is 70 degrees, a Terrestrial World is 700 hundred degrees, and a Celestial World is 7000 degrees. The Millennial World is a fire based world, beings who are born [reborn or in other words Born Again] into that world can see heaven [the Father and the Son] at a distance [over yonder]. The are born in the Morning of the First Resurrection, they are First Born's, Light Bearers, members of the church of the Firstborn, Just Men.

Eternal Lives is Fourth Estate Beings who have passed the test of a Millennial World, haven keep there Chastity [Third Estate Covenant] and have past on to come down three times in three Creations. Fourth Estate Beings wear a green apron that has nine fig leaves on it, that represent the nine times they must come down into a world like this and cover their nakedness. The sign of Fourth Estate Beings also teaches this in allegory.

Upon what do you base this? Personal revelation? Something you read? Where do you get these definitions of the estates?

To ascend above all things you must descend below all things,
to become an Eternal Father, you must become an Eternal Son,
and you must pay the Eternal Sacrifice that every God before you has paid,
receiving all the markings of a God in the flesh, all eight,
coming up to the true Eternal Resurrection of the Body,
leaving the path of Estates of Probation to the Estates of Progression,
to one day enter into the Celestial World, no more go out,
this is Gods Eternal.. and their glory [their offspring and eternal increase].

If this is a quote, please site the reference.

[AshleyB]

Yes, references would be good please We cant really judge the validity of your information without sources. Its hard to tell if this is just opinion or if you are stating it as fact. Im not discounting anything you said. But sources would be a good place to start.

[iamse7en]

Searched the googlenet for references on 7000-700-70 degrees for the 3 heavens and can't find jack squat. Either he's yanking our chain or he's one of the 3 Nephites giving us a glimpse into the sealed portion. Or, he's Bishop Koyle, back from the dead. Or re-born.

[AshleyB]

hmm...just an errant thought as I was reading your post Iamse7en, and I should say that I have tried googling this stuff and havent found anything yet either..but as I was reading it did occur to me that we do call them the "three degrees" of glory. And the numbers that start with 7 and are multiplied by ten kind of seem like a fitting way to do it since 7 is somewhat of a holy number. Ive also often thought about how higher beings can stand more light and heat then we can. And how fire is a refining thing. So perhaps the higher the heat the more refined one is. There is a lot of symbolism in that. As I said, just thinking out loud...

[SpeedRacer]

I have heard that the Celestial Kingdom is like an eternal fire purifying the residents as well. But a specific temperature is quite another thing. At 7K degrees all metal would be molten. How can pave the streets with gold when it is running down the drain in liquid form?

[AshleyB]

Im just playing along here...But one of the things you would have to consider is that all things must be prepared to endure it. Or undergo a Spiritual transformation that perpetuates a physical transformation as well. So when we think of cities and life on a Celestial sphere I dont think that we can think of them as the same things and beings that we see around us. Everything must undergo a transformation to stand it or everything would whither and die. So perhaps its not the normal gold we think of and certainly the plants and animals would be Celstialized versions of themselves. This may be part of the reason we are told that no unclean thing can enter in without being purified and sanctified first.

And this also makes me think of when the earth is baptized by fire at the saviors coming. How everything will be burned and melt with fervent heat as it says in the scriptures. I was also given a personal scripture once from Heavenly Father in a dream and I woke up and wrote it down and it talks about how those who are not spiritually prepared at his coming will not be able to endure it. Because it takes first a spiritual change and then comes the physical. I think that is something that not a lot of people realize. Its not our bodies we are trying to bring into subjection but our spirits. And as we become passive and become holy our bodies are then changed because of it. Like its an eternal law. Part of the progress... I dunno just rambling here I guess...

[reese]

Could Alma be talking about this doctrine here?....

Alma 40:5-Now, whether there shall be one time, or a second time, or a third time, that men shall come forth from the dead, it mattereth not; for God knoweth all these things; and it sufficeth me to know that this is the case—that there is a time appointed that all shall rise from the dead.

[davedan]

The laws of physics here in this Telestial World are a manifestation of their environment.
What I mean is that physical laws dont change from Tel-Terr-Cel, but how those laws manifest do.

A kind of an analogy would be the Ideal Gas Law. Science asks how would a perfect gas behave. But since we live in a Tel sphere there are other factors such as VanDerWaals interactions which are a consequence of polarity and quantum dynamics. Quantum Mechanics (atomic disobedience) results in deviations from the ideal gas law.

Well, in a Celestial Sphere. Imagine matter that never deviated from the ideal but was 100% obedient to the higher laws of physics. Now imagine living in a sphere where humans were 100% obedient to higher law.

D&C 93: 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

[SpeedRacer]

The laws of physics here in this Telestial World are a manifestation of their environment.
What I mean is that physical laws dont change from Tel-Terr-Cel, but how those laws manifest do.

A kind of an analogy would be the Ideal Gas Law. Science asks how would a perfect gas behave. But since we live in a Tel sphere there are other factors such as VanDerWaals interactions which are a consequence of polarity and quantum dynamics. Quantum Mechanics (atomic disobedience) results in deviations from the ideal gas law.

Well, in a Celestial Sphere. Imagine matter that never deviated from the ideal but was 100% obedient to the higher laws of physics. Now imagine living in a sphere where humans were 100% obedient to higher law.

D&C 93: 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

That would make your homework easier Of course you have to learn physics as it applies across realms and dimensions. That is gonna keep me up late.

[davedan]

Sin does complicate things !!!!

[HeirofNumenor]

"Upon the same principle supposing I have a lump of clay which I put upon my wheel, out of which clay I want to make a jug; I have to turn it into as many as 50 or 100 shapes before I get it into a jug. How many shapes do you suppose you are put into before you became Saints, or before you become perfect and sanctified to enter into the celestial glory of God? You have got to be like that clay in the hands of the potter. Do you not know that the Lord directed the prophet anciently, to go down to the potter's house to see a miracle on the wheel?

Suppose the potter takes a lump of clay, and putting it on the wheel, goes to work to form it into a vessel, and workis it out this way, and that way, and the other way, but the clay is refractory and snappish, he still trys it, but it will break, ans snap, and snarl, and thus the potter will work it and work it until he is satisfied he cannot bring it into the shape he wants, and it mars upon the wheell; he takes his tool, then and cuts it off the wheel, and thows it into the mill to be ground over again, until it becomes passive, (don't you think you will go to hell if you are not passive?) and after it is ground there so many days, and it becomes passive, he takes the same lump, and makes of it a vessel unto honor.

Now do you see into that brethren? I know the potters can. I tell you, brethren, if you are not passive you will have to go into that mill, and perhaps have to grind there one thousand years, and then the Gospel will be offered to you again, and then if you will not accept of it and become passive, you will have to go into the mill again, and thus you will have offers of salvation from time to time, until all the human family, except the sons of perdition, are redeemed. The spirits of men will have the Gospel as we do, and they are to be judged according to men in the flesh. Let us be passive, and take a course that will be perfectly submissive. "
(JD 1:161)

I don't buy this. What Heber C. Kimball is quoted as saying is basically, that Buddhist reincarnation is true...

[AshleyB]

What dont you buy Heiro? That Kimball said that? Kimball is not the only one to say things like that. Joseph and Brigham both said things similar as well. I just think we are lacking some understanding.... Not everything is always what it seems.

[HeirofNumenor]

The context....the fact that we only get one chance - this life, whereas he appears to be comparing favorably with reincarnation, which is - if you blow it here, you'll get another go of it to get it right...

[Amore Vero]

.

[AshleyB]

Im not trying to make anything fit anything. I just quoted it exactly as it was in the book with the same parts bolded as in the book. The book has a lot in it. Im also not here to convince anyone of anything when I dont even know what it all means myself. I just think its worth pondering and searching and praying over. If there is anything I have learned is that the truth is often stranger then fiction. I find it interesting that so many people approach things as skeptically as they do in this church when it is a church founded on the idea that a 14 year old boy was visited by God and Jesus Christ and found Gold plates that were conveniently taken away later....just sayin..

[Sariel]

We just have the milk, which in my opinion are a lot of half truths. When we know the whole truth in full context things will be totally different. Even the meat that some people receive on this earth is probably milk in comparison to what more truth is out there. Things are true within their own context, but when you add more factors, certain things could become untrue. I also believe that we are told certain things are not true, but they really are true we just aren't ready for them, the truth would destroy us because we could not abide by it, understand it, or accept it in our current state, which would damn us.

I have that book and just finished reading it. In regards to reincarnation, included is a report of two of Joseph Smith's wifes saying that he privately taught that reincarnation was a true principle. I am sure that current religions that preach reincarnation have it totally wrong though. Personally I have no problem considering this as a true doctrine; it actually makes a lot of sense.

[AshleyB]

Kind of like the time Brigham Young said Moses wasnt lying when he said Eve came from Adam's rib anymore than your mom was when she told you little Billy came from a toad stool. But then he goes on to say....that Eve was not a fashioned adobe being and neither was Adam. But that they were Resurrection beings or God's who came from another earth and they came here to bring their spirit children into a mortal existence and beget them physical bodies. To me it is a glorious doctrine but a lot of people have a hard time swallowing that one. But he says that we are told what we need to be told at the time as much as we are able to understand and prepared to receive.

[Kingdom of ZION]

Where to begin, I will try to answers your questions... on this thread.

Hi Kingdom - I have some serious questions regarding a previous post of yours in another thread. Since you have begun this new thread, I thought my questions might relate ...

Interesting topic. At this late point in this creation, looking for the sacred patterns is a more sure way to fined the path and to see how prophesied future events will come forth.

Here is a example a sacred pattern found in every dispensation of the world. There is always four beings who are sent down, servants of Adonia and who are usually listed in the historical records or the Scriptures, to head each dispensation as a Dispensation Presidency.

I'm not familiar with this "Adonia" term. It is Hebrew for 'the Lord' or 'the Messiah'

Can you please elaborate? (scriptural sources would be preferred )? About Adonia or Arch Angels?

Are you indicating that Joseph Smith was an Arch Angel? YES, he is Raguel.

What does it mean to be an Arch Angel anyway? There are eight Arch Angels in a creation... they are the ones who Arch over from the world before to establish this Creation. Arch Angels are higher then the Angels in heaven.

There are a total of eight Dispensations... Five have pasted and Three more are yet to come.

5th Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith... They were a King and Priest. Who were the Witness and Prophet of Joseph Smith, Jun. Dispensation? And how we know that the LDS Church was the true church established after the Dispensation Priest and King were taken (martyred). Who followed the sacred pattern?

Are you saying that individuals can be physically born again? YES!

Jehoshua - seems a combination of Jesus and Joshua - is also not a familiar name. If you are saying that Jehoshua is the Messiah, which is Christ, are you saying that he had previously already lived on this earth? YES some Beings can and are born again in this world. Jehoshua, the Messiah (Jesus Christ) was also Shem (Melchizedek), Noah's Son.

5th Dispensation - Joseph Smith / Hyrum Smith as you indicated would be the King / Priest, and it would seem that Brigham Young and perhaps Heber C Kimball??? were the prophet and witness? Is this what you were inferring? YES, very good. Out of all the Apostles, only BY and HCK did not rebel against JS and BY was militant. None of the other brake offs from JS had anyone who qualified, besides I was told to find HCK's Pat. Blessing and in it it said that he was the witness of the other three. That was how the spirit taught this doctrine of the Witness initially to me.

How long is a "dispensation"? A Dispensation only last 60 years in a Telestial world, they either establish Zion before then or they go into apostasy.

The previous ones covered hundreds, if not thousands of years. If we are in the "preparation" phase for the 2nd coming of Christ, it appears like the "dispensation of the Times of the Gentiles" will be very short lived...as well as the next one you mention... YES.

When is the "head of the year" in the Jewish calendar? Well that all depends on if your asking about the Jewish Calendar that is a lunar calendar or the ancient Hebrew Calendar (which I believe) was a solstice Calendar. It is the Fall Equinox's September 22 each year.

Since we still have the church that Joseph Smith restored, with its authorized prophets and apostles, how does a new dispensation head (the "King") fit into this? Is he duly called and sustained as one of the 12 apostles, and then as the prophet? Since the remnant of the Messiah's church is still here and they still have a pope and bishops, how did JS fit into that?

The next Dispensation is the "Dispensation of the Fullness of Times", it is the Millennial Dispensation and Enoch or Raphael will be the King.

Uh...you lost me here. Isn't Christ supposed to be the King during the Millennium? This is the 6th Dispensation, Raphael will be the King, Sariel will be the Priest, Raguel will be the Prophet (JS said this...) Adonia is the King of Kings, He comes as God to the people. Where as True Messengers are but servants.

And then after the Millennium world, when the world is Celestialized and it rests for another thousand years, the Great Jehovah (not the Messiah, His Grandfather) will be the King of that Dispensation, the "Dispensation of the Coming of the Great God".

Again - where are you getting this? How is the "Great Jehovah" and "Jehovah" different? Wasn't Christ the God of the old and new testaments? No, He was and is the Temporal Son of this creation. Just as Adam was and is the Temporal Father of this creation. And JS was and is the Temporal Holy Ghost of this Creation. Adam is no more the Eternal Father than the Messiah is the Great Jehovah. It just is something you will have to ponder and pray about, some things are not clearly revealed until the end times, and there will be no ancient books for you to look to for every answer. The Holy Spirit will have to be your constant guide.

I definitely have more questions...but I think this is a good starting point... Yes, the more you ask, the more things can unfold and be made clear... as well as time to pass and inspiration to come.

Most importantly, please indicate where in the scriptures / sayings of the prophets your information is coming from. I think it is quite clear... many of the things I am sharing come from the Oral Tradition (ordinances, temple allegories, parables), references that are referred to here and there but not made clear in the doctrine or scriptures until now. The mysteries of the kingdom are not mystery, only things forgotten or not yet revealed.

Shalom

P.S. I will respond tomorrow to other posts... please be patient with me.

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"Would to God, Brethren, I could tell you who I am!"

Who was Adam - Michael the archangel, who was Noah - Gabriel. He merely could have been referring to something like that. I did find, Azriel, where it was said Joseph did talk about plural probations and where Apostle Orson F. Whitney, for example, in a 1919 article in the church publication Improvement Era, “subtly expressed his disappointment” that reincarnation wasn’t taught as church doctrine. I did not read that publication so I can't say I'd have a different interpretation but then we also have LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie attacked reincarnation theology more directly, ridiculing the idea of plural probations. “There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation,” he said in a 1980 church address titled “The Seven Deadly Heresies.” I'm not taking any chances by thinking I get another chance so as far as I'm concerned I better do the very best I can here and now - no way I'm going to count on a second chance given my luck! /:)

“This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.”