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Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Spaced_Out »

Matchmaker wrote: June 27th, 2017, 7:33 pm
Yahtzee wrote: June 27th, 2017, 9:23 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:51 am
True wrote: June 26th, 2017, 7:33 pm I'm thinking the reason you didn't see any degrees is because you were experiencing spirit paradise. Just a thought.
The spirit world is separated into those that have receive and accepted baptism and those who have not. When visiting the spirit world it can be that you only experience the one half. Assignment to kingdoms of glory only comes after the resurrection and there will be many who will say we have done many works and miracles in His name but they will be denied access and separated as the goats from the sheep.
Wait, where is that revealed? The scriptures teach it is the righteous and wicked separated into paradise or prison. No mention of baptism. Not saying that ordinance isn't important, but I've never heard it taught you needed it to enter paradise.
I read somewhere that this is one of the reasons for the great urgency in doing temple work for the dead now is so that our relatives can progress from spirit prison to paradise as soon as they repent and accept the work. They need to accept the baptism done by proxy here to get out of spirit prison there. I guess I had better hunt down where I read it.
Baptism for the dead is the great gulf between the sprit prison (hell) and paradise. This has been taught to me many times including by a temple president at a youth baptism day, it is official teaching of the LDS church. Baptisms for the dead is the greater work that we do than the Saviour did?? It is the one work that Jesus did not do as he first had to go through the atonement and visit the spirit world and set up the teaching of the dead. It is seriously concerning that people have not heard it taught or found it in the scriptures.

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and ... d?lang=eng
The message of those who labor in the spirit world is the same as the message of those who labor in the flesh. With the Restoration of the gospel, the Lord told His servants that they should open their mouths and call upon people to repent, for the kingdom of heaven was at hand. They were to repent and be baptized of water and fire so that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against you” (D&C 33:13). That is exactly the message that is being preached by those in the spirit world, and in that realm the promise has particular poignancy. If “hell” refers to suffering the natural consequences of sin in the spirit prison, the promise is that through accepting the gospel and having their work done (vicarious baptisms, endowments, and so forth) on earth, the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. Spirit prison will not have power to hold those who accept the gospel in the world of spirits.....

Righteous spirits, those who have been converted to the gospel in spirit prison, are still held in spirit prison until the ordinance work is done (see Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:230). These loyal believers are not able to fully progress because, while they can have faith and repent in their spirit state, such ordinances as baptism and confirmation must be done in mortality, if not by themselves, then by proxies. They too await a day of deliverance. Speaking on this delay President Spencer W. Kimball said: “Some of us have had occasion to wait for someone or something for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, or even a year. Can you imagine how our progenitors must feel, some of whom have perhaps been waiting for decades and even centuries for the temple work to be done for them?” (“The Things of Eternity—Stand We in Jeopardy?” Ensign, Jan. 1977, p. 7.)
John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


20 But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled themselves while in the flesh, his voice was not raised;
21 Neither did the rebellious who rejected the testimonies and the warnings of the ancient prophets behold his presence, nor look upon his face.
22 Where these were, darkness reigned, but among the righteous there was peace;...............
30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.
31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.
32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.
33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,
34 And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Finrock »

Spaced_Out wrote: June 28th, 2017, 2:05 am
Finrock wrote: June 28th, 2017, 1:52 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 28th, 2017, 1:45 am
Eccl. 12:13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
When the scriptures say, "fear God" it means "to have a reverential awe of" God.
See 3 Nephi 12 for the commandments we are told to keep.
3 Yea, blessed are the poor in spirit who come unto me, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 And again, blessed are all they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 And blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 And blessed are all they who do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit will be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost, becoming new creatures, born again.

-Finrock
We have had this discussion before and there is still a disconnect in understanding. No point in having it again, it is off the topic of this thread.
It deals with whether we are allowed to live a life free from fear, guilt, shame, and acting on a sense of duty alone, or if we can enjoy another way of living. I testify that we can. I used to act and do things because of fear, guilt, shame, or duty. Because of Jesus Christ and His power, I now act out of a sense of love for my Savior and love of others. Fear, guilt, shame are far from me. This all happens when we allow Jesus in to our lives and allow Him to change us. If you haven't experienced this and you still are motivated by fear, guilt, shame, or even a sense of duty, then I invite you (as in anyone) to experiment with the word of God. What the OP saw when he visited the spirit world was a correct representation of heaven or spirit paradise. What you are describing insofar as guilt, fear, etc. is a good description of spirit prison. That is how it ties in with the OP and with your post.

-Finrock

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Finrock »

Spaced_Out wrote: June 28th, 2017, 2:13 am
alaris wrote: June 27th, 2017, 7:02 pm
CelestialAngel wrote: June 27th, 2017, 12:01 pm You bring up very good points. It's possible I am wrong. I hope no one bases their testimony off of anything I experienced because I told a Stake President what I experienced and he thinks it was my mind in cardiac arrest having a dream. I hope no one changes their views over anything I wrote. Do you think I should take down my post?
Don't let those addicted to negativity drag you in. Misery loves company.

I benefited from your post and thoughts tremendously. I have read many NDE books. It is very common for people to report bright and vibrant colors - colors that don't exist in our spectrum. Try wrapping your brain around that. There are simply too many NDE experiencers out there to say they are all attention seekers. The irony is I first asked you about the importance at how we treat others deliberately to help those antagonism addicts realize that it is far more important to treat each other "right" than it is to be "right." Well treating each other right and with love IS being right.

Relevant in more ways than one here:
Alma 3:26 And in one year were thousands and tens of thousands of souls sent to the eternal world, that they might reap their rewards according to their works, whether they were good or whether they were bad, to reap eternal happiness or eternal misery, according to the spirit which they listed to obey, whether it be a good spirit or a bad one.
27 For every man receiveth wages of him whom he listeth to obey, and this according to the words of the spirit of prophecy; therefore let it be according to the truth. And thus endeth the fifth year of the reign of the judges.
Much like what you saw, those who list to obey a contentious evil spirits will not magically stop their addiction when they cross over. Those who learn and live the plan of happiness here will take their happiness with them.

Spirit Prison: :| :-s 8-| :ymsick: [-( @-)

Spirit Paradise: :) :D :ymhug: :p O:-) :ymparty:

I almost put the clown in paradise - *whew*
Political correctness and all the rainbow nonsense about love does not cut it for me. You have to deal with the wolf in sheep clothing, and correcting false doctrine is loving a person. Yes love the sinner and hate the sin, but on an open forum we discuss issues of doctrine and principles of eternity - if one thinks your ideas are misguided they have the right to voice opinion. Free speech and love works both ways, being easily offended is not love but conceit and pride and arrogance.

The state of wicked spirits is described in Alma 40:13–14 and Mosiah 2:38. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers” (History of the Church, 5:425).
Your posts, Space_Out, are akin to a man who has read all about Disney World but who has never been there much less even visited Florida, who then proceeds to lecture people who have actually been to Disney World and to tell them what Disney World is like and what it isn't like.

Or, its like a man who has never tasted the sweet love of Christ in their heart trying to convince people who have and who do that they shouldn't feel the way they do but should feel as miserable or as disconnected from love as the man does.

-Finrock

User avatar
Yahtzee
captain of 100
Posts: 710

Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Yahtzee »

Spaced_Out wrote: June 28th, 2017, 2:50 am
Matchmaker wrote: June 27th, 2017, 7:33 pm
Yahtzee wrote: June 27th, 2017, 9:23 am
Spaced_Out wrote: June 27th, 2017, 5:51 am

The spirit world is separated into those that have receive and accepted baptism and those who have not. When visiting the spirit world it can be that you only experience the one half. Assignment to kingdoms of glory only comes after the resurrection and there will be many who will say we have done many works and miracles in His name but they will be denied access and separated as the goats from the sheep.
Wait, where is that revealed? The scriptures teach it is the righteous and wicked separated into paradise or prison. No mention of baptism. Not saying that ordinance isn't important, but I've never heard it taught you needed it to enter paradise.
I read somewhere that this is one of the reasons for the great urgency in doing temple work for the dead now is so that our relatives can progress from spirit prison to paradise as soon as they repent and accept the work. They need to accept the baptism done by proxy here to get out of spirit prison there. I guess I had better hunt down where I read it.
Baptism for the dead is the great gulf between the sprit prison (hell) and paradise. This has been taught to me many times including by a temple president at a youth baptism day, it is official teaching of the LDS church. Baptisms for the dead is the greater work that we do than the Saviour did?? It is the one work that Jesus did not do as he first had to go through the atonement and visit the spirit world and set up the teaching of the dead. It is seriously concerning that people have not heard it taught or found it in the scriptures.

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and ... d?lang=eng
The message of those who labor in the spirit world is the same as the message of those who labor in the flesh. With the Restoration of the gospel, the Lord told His servants that they should open their mouths and call upon people to repent, for the kingdom of heaven was at hand. They were to repent and be baptized of water and fire so that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against you” (D&C 33:13). That is exactly the message that is being preached by those in the spirit world, and in that realm the promise has particular poignancy. If “hell” refers to suffering the natural consequences of sin in the spirit prison, the promise is that through accepting the gospel and having their work done (vicarious baptisms, endowments, and so forth) on earth, the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. Spirit prison will not have power to hold those who accept the gospel in the world of spirits.....

Righteous spirits, those who have been converted to the gospel in spirit prison, are still held in spirit prison until the ordinance work is done (see Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:230). These loyal believers are not able to fully progress because, while they can have faith and repent in their spirit state, such ordinances as baptism and confirmation must be done in mortality, if not by themselves, then by proxies. They too await a day of deliverance. Speaking on this delay President Spencer W. Kimball said: “Some of us have had occasion to wait for someone or something for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, or even a year. Can you imagine how our progenitors must feel, some of whom have perhaps been waiting for decades and even centuries for the temple work to be done for them?” (“The Things of Eternity—Stand We in Jeopardy?” Ensign, Jan. 1977, p. 7.)
John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


20 But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled themselves while in the flesh, his voice was not raised;
21 Neither did the rebellious who rejected the testimonies and the warnings of the ancient prophets behold his presence, nor look upon his face.
22 Where these were, darkness reigned, but among the righteous there was peace;...............
30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.
31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.
32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.
33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,
34 And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,
Thank you very much for giving those references. I'm somewhat bothered by this and find things a little contradictory so I'm going to study it out some more. But I do thank you for giving the reference.
The statements by Brigham Young in the D&C manual seen to coincide with what the OP described in their NDE.

Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Spaced_Out »

Finrock wrote: June 28th, 2017, 8:02 am Your posts, Space_Out, are akin to a man who has read all about Disney World but who has never been there much less even visited Florida, who then proceeds to lecture people who have actually been to Disney World and to tell them what Disney World is like and what it isn't like.

Or, its like a man who has never tasted the sweet love of Christ in their heart trying to convince people who have and who do that they shouldn't feel the way they do but should feel as miserable or as disconnected from love as the man does.
-Finrock
As for me an my house we will follow the prophets you can follow the Christ that you make him out to be and ignor all the other principles of the gospel and teachings of the prophets, like alaris who ride one little hobby donkey and continually look for affirmation of your one principle gospel.. But that doctrine is of a telestrial order.

D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: My Near Death Experience following cardiac arrest June 16th 2013

Post by Finrock »

Spaced_Out wrote: June 28th, 2017, 2:02 pm
Finrock wrote: June 28th, 2017, 8:02 am Your posts, Space_Out, are akin to a man who has read all about Disney World but who has never been there much less even visited Florida, who then proceeds to lecture people who have actually been to Disney World and to tell them what Disney World is like and what it isn't like.

Or, its like a man who has never tasted the sweet love of Christ in their heart trying to convince people who have and who do that they shouldn't feel the way they do but should feel as miserable or as disconnected from love as the man does.
-Finrock
As for me an my house we will follow the prophets you can follow the Christ that you make him out to be and ignor all the other principles of the gospel and teachings of the prophets, like alaris who ride one little hobby donkey and continually look for affirmation of your one principle gospel.. But that doctrine is of a telestrial order.

D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
That's fine. True prophets will point you to Christ because He is the Way. Knowing is half the battle. The other half is putting in to practice what you know intellectually.

-Finrock

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