Was polygamy from God or Satan?

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CelestialAngel
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Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby CelestialAngel » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:37 pm

Let this be a final all out answer to a simple question. Was polygamy originated from God or was it a tool Satan used to influence man to create it? There's no in between here. It has to either be from God or Satan. And what are your reasons for why you picked the side you did? Eternal polygamy isn't going away since men today can get sealed to another woman after a death of spouse or civil divorce but leaving the first temple sealing intact and marrying a 2nd wife in the temple. Living men in our church today are sealed to multiple women. The next 2 apostles in line to be the next 2 prophets, Russell M Nelson, and Dallin H Oaks are both sealed to multiple women. The only prophets of our dispensation not to be sealed to multiple women are Thomas S Monson, Gordon B Hinckley, Spencer W Kimball, David O McKay, and George Albert Smith. Only prophets to be monogamous in sealings. The others?

Ezra Taft Benson in 1950 with his living wife standing in as proxy as Benson was sealed to his first cousin who had died as a wife in the temple. Howard W Hunter is sealed to 2 women, along with Harold B Lee, and Joseph Fielding Smith is sealed to 3 women through deaths and remarriages. Joseph Smith through Heber J Grant all the prophets had at least 3 wives they were sealed to. So ya only prophets to be sealed to only 1 woman are Monson, Hinckley, Kimball, McKay, and George Albert Smith, while the next 2 in line for prophet, Nelson, and Oaks are sealed to 2 women.

Something tells me polygamy will be a huge part of the Celestial Kingdom.

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CelestialAngel
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby CelestialAngel » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:56 pm

I believe it was from God and I believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet who had a real revelation with D&C 132 in it's fullness. We are not to live with more than 1 woman of a time in today's church through revelation, but we can prepare our souls for plural marriage in the eternities which is the only place where it will work perfectly since no one in the Celestial Kingdom will be jealous and those who have jealousies and other sinful thoughts won't even be in the Celestial Kingdom.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:05 pm

Neither.

CelestialAngel
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby CelestialAngel » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:37 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:05 pm
Neither.
Your answer makes no sense. Explain yourself. Today we do plural sealings for those who have passed on and for those who divorce civally but don't get a temple cancellation.

CelestialAngel
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby CelestialAngel » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:41 pm

But the thing is today, I know of not one single man who would want to go through the death of a spouse or divorce just for the chance to get sealed to another. Those who remarried today since the manifesto didn't ask for their loved ones to die. I can't imagine anything more painful.

brianj
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby brianj » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:39 pm

Polygamy is just like physical intimacy. It is a gift, and sometimes a trial, from our Father. Both of these gifts are given to us with very strict restrictions on their use, and both have been bastardized under the influence of the adversary.

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Lizzy60 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:48 pm

3 Nephi 27
11 But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

The works of men, and the works of the devil both have the same outcome -- they are hewn down and cast into the fire.
Therefore the question is valid, polygamy (at any particular time) is either of God or Satan.

This is also why I cringe when people say that sometimes our prophets, seers and revelators speak for God, and sometimes they are expressing their own opinions. I say that one better be able to discern the difference if that is the case.

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby ebenezerarise » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:23 pm

I know by personal revelation that it was of God through Joseph Smith, and anciently as He had occasion to command. I likewise know it was by revelation that the practice ceased and yet has remained as a doctrine and practiced today in ways that the OP has observed.

The Lord intends for families to be exalted together. It was for this wise purpose that it was done. Those privileged to live in on this earth and those who are byproducts of such unions have much to be grateful for. The veil is very thin for those with ancestors who lived it. This I know VERY well.

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Stahura » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:48 pm

ebenezerarise wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:23 pm
I know by personal revelation that it was of God through Joseph Smith, and anciently as He had occasion to command. I likewise know it was by revelation that the practice ceased and yet has remained as a doctrine and practiced today in ways that the OP has observed.

The Lord intends for families to be exalted together. It was for this wise purpose that it was done. Those privileged to live in on this earth and those who are byproducts of such unions have much to be grateful for. The veil is very thin for those with ancestors who lived it. This I know VERY well.
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives.... I am innocent of all these charges.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."

Interesting that you know that Joseph Smith had other wives when even he didn't know. I believe he had a name for the people saying he had other wives. "perjurers"? Take a second to realize that the prophet of the restoration is calling you a perjurer :ymhug:
http://iam-anchored.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://iam-anchored.blogspot.com/2015/1 ... -fire.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby MMbelieve » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:47 pm

CelestialAngel wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:37 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:05 pm
Neither.
Your answer makes no sense. Explain yourself. Today we do plural sealings for those who have passed on and for those who divorce civally but don't get a temple cancellation.
It can make sense depending on how you look at it and how deep you take it. Yes all things are either going to be "eventually" good or bad. But, don't underestimate the power of man to initiate and orchestrate their own plan and solutions and interpretations.

People can very well start something on their own accord without it first having a signed paper from God or Satan.

Just a generalized statement here, not saying anything specifically about polygamy.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Robin Hood » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:00 am

CelestialAngel wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:37 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:05 pm
Neither.
Your answer makes no sense.
The question is quite polarised. It gave only 2 options. It assumed polygamy was either of God or of the devil.
I think this is an unhelpful assumption as it ignores another possibility...... that it was of man; nothing to do with either God or the devil.

CelestialAngel
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby CelestialAngel » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:48 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:00 am
CelestialAngel wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:37 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:05 pm
Neither.
Your answer makes no sense.
The question is quite polarised. It gave only 2 options. It assumed polygamy was either of God or of the devil.
I think this is an unhelpful assumption as it ignores another possibility...... that it was of man; nothing to do with either God or the devil.
ALL things are either from God or Satan. There is no from man.

Lizzy60
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Lizzy60 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:28 pm

CelestialAngel wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:48 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:00 am
CelestialAngel wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:37 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:05 pm
Neither.
Your answer makes no sense.
The question is quite polarised. It gave only 2 options. It assumed polygamy was either of God or of the devil.
I think this is an unhelpful assumption as it ignores another possibility...... that it was of man; nothing to do with either God or the devil.
ALL things are either from God or Satan. There is no from man.
"the natural man is an enemy to God..."

The entire Book of Mormon is polarized. In other words, it contains examples of 2-way doctrine all the way through. No middle ground, because if you choose the middle ground, you haven't chosen God.

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shadow
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby shadow » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:44 pm

Actually, polygamy can be both from God and Satan.
And just a correction in the OP- President Hunter wasn't sealed to his second wife. She was a widow already sealed to her first husband.
This imminent stuff is taking for-freaking-ever :-w

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5tev3
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby 5tev3 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:57 pm

I concur with the Book of Mormon.

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby davedan » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:04 pm

Polygamy like adoption was practiced anciently as a welfare system to care for the fatherless and widows.

The family (overseen by religion) is to be used to supply welfare needs of all individuals (not the state).

Any implementation of polygamy for other purposes or motivations is not of God except also for (raise up righteous seed).

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Robin Hood
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:37 am

CelestialAngel wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:48 pm


ALL things are either from God or Satan.
No they're not.
Do you really think that God or Satan care whether I have marmalade or jam on my toast?
Man is quite capable of making his own decisions.
As the scripture clearly states; he can act, or be acted upon.

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby BackBlast » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:18 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:05 pm
Neither.
Polygamy has a Godly purpose.

Jacob 2:30
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
It seems that he recognizes it as a potentially legitimate strategy for fulfilling His purpose

Moses 1:39
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
That does not mean that every instance of it's use comes from heaven.

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby ebenezerarise » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:07 pm

Stahura wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:48 pm
Interesting that you know that Joseph Smith had other wives when even he didn't know. I believe he had a name for the people saying he had other wives. "perjurers"? Take a second to realize that the prophet of the restoration is calling you a perjurer :ymhug:
I never said anything Joseph having other wives. You did.

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby brlenox » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:29 pm

Can you have an atonement without plural marriage?

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shadow
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby shadow » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:28 pm

Stahura wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:48 pm
ebenezerarise wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:23 pm
I know by personal revelation that it was of God through Joseph Smith, and anciently as He had occasion to command. I likewise know it was by revelation that the practice ceased and yet has remained as a doctrine and practiced today in ways that the OP has observed.

The Lord intends for families to be exalted together. It was for this wise purpose that it was done. Those privileged to live in on this earth and those who are byproducts of such unions have much to be grateful for. The veil is very thin for those with ancestors who lived it. This I know VERY well.
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives.... I am innocent of all these charges.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."

Interesting that you know that Joseph Smith had other wives when even he didn't know. I believe he had a name for the people saying he had other wives. "perjurers"? Take a second to realize that the prophet of the restoration is calling you a perjurer :ymhug:
Many prophets, even after the restoration taught polygamy.
With Joseph Smith, you have to see the context of the quote. Law's version of polygamy is what Joseph was innocent of. Absolutely he had plural wives. I'm surprised people even argue against it.
This imminent stuff is taking for-freaking-ever :-w

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby MMbelieve » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:17 pm

shadow wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:28 pm
Stahura wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:48 pm
ebenezerarise wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:23 pm
I know by personal revelation that it was of God through Joseph Smith, and anciently as He had occasion to command. I likewise know it was by revelation that the practice ceased and yet has remained as a doctrine and practiced today in ways that the OP has observed.

The Lord intends for families to be exalted together. It was for this wise purpose that it was done. Those privileged to live in on this earth and those who are byproducts of such unions have much to be grateful for. The veil is very thin for those with ancestors who lived it. This I know VERY well.
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives.... I am innocent of all these charges.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."

Interesting that you know that Joseph Smith had other wives when even he didn't know. I believe he had a name for the people saying he had other wives. "perjurers"? Take a second to realize that the prophet of the restoration is calling you a perjurer :ymhug:
Many prophets, even after the restoration taught polygamy.
With Joseph Smith, you have to see the context of the quote. Law's version of polygamy is what Joseph was innocent of. Absolutely he had plural wives. I'm surprised people even argue against it.
It's no doubt he was sealed to multiple women but he only has 1 wife, Emma.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 pm

MMbelieve wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:17 pm
shadow wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:28 pm
Stahura wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:48 pm
ebenezerarise wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:23 pm
I know by personal revelation that it was of God through Joseph Smith, and anciently as He had occasion to command. I likewise know it was by revelation that the practice ceased and yet has remained as a doctrine and practiced today in ways that the OP has observed.

The Lord intends for families to be exalted together. It was for this wise purpose that it was done. Those privileged to live in on this earth and those who are byproducts of such unions have much to be grateful for. The veil is very thin for those with ancestors who lived it. This I know VERY well.
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives.... I am innocent of all these charges.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."

Interesting that you know that Joseph Smith had other wives when even he didn't know. I believe he had a name for the people saying he had other wives. "perjurers"? Take a second to realize that the prophet of the restoration is calling you a perjurer :ymhug:
Many prophets, even after the restoration taught polygamy.
With Joseph Smith, you have to see the context of the quote. Law's version of polygamy is what Joseph was innocent of. Absolutely he had plural wives. I'm surprised people even argue against it.
It's no doubt he was sealed to multiple women but he only has 1 wife, Emma.
Absolutely!
I've been saying this for years. Most people shout me down, but the evidence is clear when you strip away the back written "Utah layers".

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Col. Flagg » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:31 pm

"Truth is in history, but history is not the truth." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby kgrigio » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:12 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 pm

Absolutely!
I've been saying this for years. Most people shout me down, but the evidence is clear when you strip away the back written "Utah layers".
The first plural marriage in Nauvoo took place when Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841.19 Joseph married many additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice spread slowly at first. By June 1844, when Joseph died, approximately 29 men and 50 women had entered into plural marriage, in addition to Joseph and his wives. When the Saints entered the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, at least 196 men and 521 women had entered into plural marriages.20 Participants in these early plural marriages pledged to keep their involvement confidential, though they anticipated a time when the practice would be publicly acknowledged.
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng

Robin, are you saying the church is lying then? The implications of your statement is the church is knowingly lying about Joseph practicing polygamy.

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Mark
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Mark » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:31 am

kgrigio wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:12 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 pm

Absolutely!
I've been saying this for years. Most people shout me down, but the evidence is clear when you strip away the back written "Utah layers".
The first plural marriage in Nauvoo took place when Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841.19 Joseph married many additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice spread slowly at first. By June 1844, when Joseph died, approximately 29 men and 50 women had entered into plural marriage, in addition to Joseph and his wives. When the Saints entered the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, at least 196 men and 521 women had entered into plural marriages.20 Participants in these early plural marriages pledged to keep their involvement confidential, though they anticipated a time when the practice would be publicly acknowledged.
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng

Robin, are you saying the church is lying then? The implications of your statement is the church is knowingly lying about Joseph practicing polygamy.

Not only are they saying that the church and those who serve in leadership today are lying but the denyers are also saying that all those who succeeded Joseph in the leadership positions after Josephs death from Brigham Young to John Taylor to Wilford Woodruff and all those who served in the councils of the church during their tenures are also lying about this. The ramifications would be endless. The church would be shown to have no integrity. How could one trust anything about the foundations if this was just thought to be a big scam set up to satisfy lustful desires?
You are a true nothing Mark.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:47 am

kgrigio wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:12 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 pm

Absolutely!
I've been saying this for years. Most people shout me down, but the evidence is clear when you strip away the back written "Utah layers".
The first plural marriage in Nauvoo took place when Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841.19 Joseph married many additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice spread slowly at first. By June 1844, when Joseph died, approximately 29 men and 50 women had entered into plural marriage, in addition to Joseph and his wives. When the Saints entered the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, at least 196 men and 521 women had entered into plural marriages.20 Participants in these early plural marriages pledged to keep their involvement confidential, though they anticipated a time when the practice would be publicly acknowledged.
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng

Robin, are you saying the church is lying then? The implications of your statement is the church is knowingly lying about Joseph practicing polygamy.
I'm saying there is a difference between "sealing" and "marriage".
The passage you quote from LDS.org even says "Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841" rather than married. The assumption is made that sealing and marriage are synonymous.
I dispute this.
Later in Utah the records were back written (because records of these things were not kept in Nauvoo) by which time "sealing" and "marriage" had become conflated in the minds and practice of the Saints.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:52 am

Mark wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:31 am
kgrigio wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:12 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 pm

Absolutely!
I've been saying this for years. Most people shout me down, but the evidence is clear when you strip away the back written "Utah layers".
The first plural marriage in Nauvoo took place when Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841.19 Joseph married many additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice spread slowly at first. By June 1844, when Joseph died, approximately 29 men and 50 women had entered into plural marriage, in addition to Joseph and his wives. When the Saints entered the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, at least 196 men and 521 women had entered into plural marriages.20 Participants in these early plural marriages pledged to keep their involvement confidential, though they anticipated a time when the practice would be publicly acknowledged.
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng

Robin, are you saying the church is lying then? The implications of your statement is the church is knowingly lying about Joseph practicing polygamy.

Not only are they saying that the church and those who serve in leadership today are lying but the denyers are also saying that all those who succeeded Joseph in the leadership positions after Josephs death from Brigham Young to John Taylor to Wilford Woodruff and all those who served in the councils of the church during their tenures are also lying about this. The ramifications would be endless. The church would be shown to have no integrity. How could one trust anything about the foundations if this was just thought to be a big scam set up to satisfy lustful desires?
In my view, the whole thing is based on a significant misunderstanding.
There may have been lustful men involved at various stages (Bennett and Higbee for example) but I believe most people who entered the practice did so with good intentions and really believed they were doing their duty.
They weren't, but they thought they were.

Joseph Smith denied, almost to his dying breath, that he was involved in polygamy and insisted that he had only one wife.
Do you believe Joseph was a liar?

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Mark
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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Mark » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:30 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:52 am
Mark wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:31 am
kgrigio wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:12 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 pm

Absolutely!
I've been saying this for years. Most people shout me down, but the evidence is clear when you strip away the back written "Utah layers".
The first plural marriage in Nauvoo took place when Louisa Beaman and Joseph Smith were sealed in April 1841.19 Joseph married many additional wives and authorized other Latter-day Saints to practice plural marriage. The practice spread slowly at first. By June 1844, when Joseph died, approximately 29 men and 50 women had entered into plural marriage, in addition to Joseph and his wives. When the Saints entered the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, at least 196 men and 521 women had entered into plural marriages.20 Participants in these early plural marriages pledged to keep their involvement confidential, though they anticipated a time when the practice would be publicly acknowledged.
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng

Robin, are you saying the church is lying then? The implications of your statement is the church is knowingly lying about Joseph practicing polygamy.

Not only are they saying that the church and those who serve in leadership today are lying but the denyers are also saying that all those who succeeded Joseph in the leadership positions after Josephs death from Brigham Young to John Taylor to Wilford Woodruff and all those who served in the councils of the church during their tenures are also lying about this. The ramifications would be endless. The church would be shown to have no integrity. How could one trust anything about the foundations if this was just thought to be a big scam set up to satisfy lustful desires?
In my view, the whole thing is based on a significant misunderstanding.
There may have been lustful men involved at various stages (Bennett and Higbee for example) but I believe most people who entered the practice did so with good intentions and really believed they were doing their duty.
They weren't, but they thought they were.

Joseph Smith denied, almost to his dying breath, that he was involved in polygamy and insisted that he had only one wife.
Do you believe Joseph was a liar?

So you are saying that Brigham Young and Heber C Kimball and all those Brethren who succeeded Joseph in the leadership of the church were just innocently deceived into thinking they were doing their duty? Go back and read their words. They solemnly testify that it was Joseph who taught them the principle of celestial marriage and they chose with great anguish to follow that principle as outlined by the Prophet after confirmation from God. These men had great spiritual manifestations given them. How in the world can you say that they were just innocently mistaken in adopting this principle? How do you KNOW this?
You are a true nothing Mark.

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Re: Was polygamy from God or Satan?

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:34 am

Mark wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:30 am
Robin Hood wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:52 am
Mark wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:31 am
kgrigio wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:12 pm




https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng

Robin, are you saying the church is lying then? The implications of your statement is the church is knowingly lying about Joseph practicing polygamy.

Not only are they saying that the church and those who serve in leadership today are lying but the denyers are also saying that all those who succeeded Joseph in the leadership positions after Josephs death from Brigham Young to John Taylor to Wilford Woodruff and all those who served in the councils of the church during their tenures are also lying about this. The ramifications would be endless. The church would be shown to have no integrity. How could one trust anything about the foundations if this was just thought to be a big scam set up to satisfy lustful desires?
In my view, the whole thing is based on a significant misunderstanding.
There may have been lustful men involved at various stages (Bennett and Higbee for example) but I believe most people who entered the practice did so with good intentions and really believed they were doing their duty.
They weren't, but they thought they were.

Joseph Smith denied, almost to his dying breath, that he was involved in polygamy and insisted that he had only one wife.
Do you believe Joseph was a liar?

So you are saying that Brigham Young and Heber C Kimball and all those Brethren who succeeded Joseph in the leadership of the church were just innocently deceived into thinking they were doing their duty? Go back and read their words. They solemnly testify that it was Joseph who taught them the principle of celestial marriage and they chose with great anguish to follow that principle as outlined by the Prophet after confirmation from God. These men had great spiritual manifestations given them. How in the world can you say that they were just innocently mistaken in adopting this principle? How do you KNOW this?
Like I have already said, "sealing" and "marriage" became conflated. They're not the same thing. Sealing is dynastical whereas marriage can and does exist without a sealing and includes other aspects. Even Helen Kimball, the 14 year old that Joseph supposedly "married", said that she understood it to be a sealing for dynastical purposes, with no question of it being a marriage in the common understanding of the word.


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