The Wise, the Learned, and the Rich

[Yod]

Remember the three categories of people whom the LORD God despises: the wise, the learned (degreed, credentialed), and the rich (those who have taken more than they personally need and do not give on request). There is considerable overlap between these three groups.

This article helps us to understand what is meant by "the wise." https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/homo-prospectus/

This is the wisdom of God: "Take ye no thought for the morrow," "lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth," "give to every man that asketh thee," "him that would borrow of thee turn thou not away," "lend, hoping for nothing again," and "of him who taketh away thy goods, ask them not again," the Lord has commanded us (Luke 6:20-49; Matthew 5-7; 3 Nephi 12-14).

For help answering these questions, see 2 Nephi 9:41-42 and 2 Nephi 31.

Questions:
1. Why is the wisdom of God foolishness to man?
2. What is the gate spoken of in 2 Nephi 9:41?
3. How might men attempt to deceive the LORD God in the matter of passing through the gate, since baptism is public?
4. Keeping in mind the temple rites, what do you think is meant by "whoso knocketh, to him will he open?"
5. Do you think he despises the wise, the learned, and the rich, who are puffed up because of their wisdom and their learning and their riches, because they themselves despise others, such as the poor and the needy?
6. How does one knock so that the Lord can hear?
7. What is the solution to being wise, learned, or rich, so that when we knock the Lord will open unto us?

[Yod]

1. Why is the wisdom of God foolishness to man?

Because God's wisdom says not to prepare temporally for the future, whereas men fear entirely for their temporal future and therefore account it wise to prepare for that future in this world, including taking more than they need and keeping it away from others, instead of giving it to those who need it, except on exchange, and obtaining credentials or degrees through education that they may be lifted above their brethren in the jobs markets. Therefore the wisdom of God seems entirely foolish to men. All these things men do in their wisdom to prepare for their temporal future, which is the future they truly fear, divide us, which contradicts God's purpose which is to unite us through the Atonement.

2. What is the gate spoken of in 2 Nephi 9:41?

Repentance from all sin and baptism.

3. How might men attempt to deceive the LORD God in the matter of passing through the gate, since baptism is public?

By not keeping his commandments, therefore not having repented from all their sins, nor having any real intent to; therefore they may be baptized but inwardly are full of desire for temporal riches, security, and other lusts - or, as the Savior said, they are full of ravening and wickedness. They are the wolves in sheep's clothing, the hypocrites, who appear outwardly righteous unto men, and are the false prophets who preach false doctrines and pervert the ways of the Lord, neither keeping nor teaching his commandments.

4. Keeping in mind the temple rites, what do you think is meant by "whoso knocketh, to him will he open?"

I think it means that if we knock at the veil he will bring us through as is done in the rite.

5. Do you think he despises the wise, the learned, and the rich, who are puffed up because of their wisdom and their learning and their riches, because they themselves despise others, such as the poor and the needy?

Yes.

6. How does one knock so that the Lord can hear?

By keeping his commandments as contained in the Sermon on the Mount.

7. What is the solution to being wise, learned, or rich, so that when we knock the Lord will open unto us?

Performing all the works commanded in the Sermon, which, if we do, will humble us into the dust; we will cast away our worldly wisdom - our foresight, schemes, plans, and ambitions; we will cast away our learning - our degrees and credentials, taking, perhaps, jobs which require no degrees nor credentials; and we will cast away our riches by giving to every man that asks, not asking for our stuff back from whomever takes it, lending to all comers hoping not to get paid back, and so on, as contained in the Sermon.

The Lord hath prepared the path and inviteth all men to come; will any accept his invitation and walk in his ways?

[drtanner]

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/10/our- ... l?lang=eng

[Yod]

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/10/our- ... l?lang=eng

Be bold and forthright, DrTanner, and tell us all: who do you observe who has a strength that can become his downfall?

What strength do you refer to?

Surely you cannot mean that the strength the Lord gives his servants as they keep and teach his commandments can lead to their downfall, can you?

For surely you remember the word of the Lord which saith:

Ether 12
26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

28 Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me—the fountain of all righteousness.

1 Nephi 1
19 And it came to pass that the Jews did mock him because of the things which he testified of them; for he truly testified of their wickedness and their abominations; and he testified that the things which he saw and heard, and also the things which he read in the book, manifested plainly of the coming of a Messiah, and also the redemption of the world.

20 And when the Jews heard these things they were angry with him; yea, even as with the prophets of old, whom they had cast out, and stoned, and slain; and they also sought his life, that they might take it away. But behold, I, Nephi, will show unto you that the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of deliverance.

So, whatever can you mean?

[drtanner]

The article speaks for itself. Those on the forum are free to discern for themselves through the spirit. I know for myself I have been guilty of many of the items on the list at times and am grateful for the counsel from a prophet as a reminder to turn to the lord in my own weakness.

[Yod]

The article speaks for itself. Those on the forum are free to discern for themselves through the spirit. I know for myself I have been guilty of many of the items on the list at times and am grateful for the counsel from a prophet as a reminder to turn to the lord in my own weakness.

Please don't be passive-aggressive in the manner of the hypocrites, not naming the target nor openly speaking your accusation so that you may plausibly claim to be innocent of faultfinding, but be bold and forthright and tell us both whom you are speaking of and what, precisely, you are trying to say about them.

For if you were talking to yourself about yourself, you would have done so and not posted. If you are of a kind to insist on publicly flogging yourself with your message, you might even have opened a thread and, as the scriptures say, confessed your sins before your brethren and the Lord. But you didn't do either of these things.

[DesertWonderer]

I am wise, learned and probably rich according to some...I know for a fact that not only does God not despise me but He loves me and has been very pleased with me.

[Yod]

That's a testable claim, and the standard of evidence for the test is in 2 Nephi 9:42.

[Finrock]

That's a testable claim, and the standard of evidence for the test is in 2 Nephi 9:42.

I'm not wise, barely learned, and not exactly rich.

The standard is the class of the learned, the wise, and the rich that are puffed up because of their learning, their wisdom, and their riches.

-Finrock

[Yod]

Yes. Every one that has not cast those things away: he does not open the gate unto them.

Hence, speaking to those who followed him, "blessed be ye poor, for yours is the kingdom of heaven." And also, "wo unto you, ye rich! For you have received your comforter."

[Finrock]

Is it not also taught, "But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God"?

And is not the qualifier in 2 Nephi those that are "puffed up"? This would not include those that hearken unto the counsels of God and who are learned or wise and neither does it include those who have "obtained a hope in Christ" and then seek riches "for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted."

-Finrock

[Yod]

I was pretty clear in the OP, I thought. And in the second post, as well.

[Finrock]

I was pretty clear in the OP, I thought. And in the second post, as well.

Your first sentence would seem to say all who are rich, wise, and learned, without qualification, are despised of God. Your question includes the qualifier, "those who are puffed up...". That is unclear, to me, anyways.

-Finrock

[Yod]

I think my first sentence in fact includes qualifiers. Indeed, the point of the article cited was to explain what, in context, "the wise" meant - that is, to qualify it, to explain it. The wise are the forward-thinkers, the planners, the schemers, who lay in store temporally against the future, who acquire credentials / degrees to rise above others in the jobs markets, and so on.

You see, there are two ways to read 2 Nephi 9:42 - one way as containing a qualifier, and the other way as a blanket condemnation. Since the Lord is no respecter of men, there is not a non-arbitrary way to say only some of the wise, the learned, and the rich must cast away their wisdom, learning, and riches for the Lord to open unto them, while others do not; we are to be equal temporally and this not grudgingly or else we cannot be equal spiritually. Therefore you cannot say the blanket condemnation of the wise, the learned, and the rich being puffed up as such, and that they must first cast all these things away or else the Lord will not open unto them, is not the intended meaning.

But let's consider it a qualifier, and assume only those are condemned who are puffed up because of those things, and only those so condemned must cast those things away. So who are those that are puffed up because of their wisdom (planning, scheming, foresightful, practicing prudent economics, &c.), their learning (degrees, credentials, licenses, &c.), and their riches (possessing substance above immediate need and not giving upon request)? Precisely those to whom the Lord has not opened. And since there are very few who have been received into heaven while in the flesh, that ought to give pause and reason to consider again that the blanket condemnation may well be in fact the intended meaning.

It is good to be learned - having studied, acquired knowledge - if one hearkens unto the counsels of the Lord. That doesn't happen very frequently. And the degrees and credentials still must be cast aside or else the Lord would be a respecter of persons.

Those who are received into heaven - those to whom the Lord opens - may well be blessed with temporal substance afterwards, for the blessings of the earth may well be promised to such. If one has not been received into heaven, though, then for what purpose does one salivate over Abraham's wealth - of which it is written he gave all he possessed above his needs to Melchizedek for his tithes - rather than pay heed with all diligence to the commandments of the Lord?

It is not written Abraham sought for wealth, either, but he had been received into heaven. Those who have a hope in Christ only seek riches for the purpose of doing good and not for themselves - that is, to give them away, pay off others' debts, and so on - if they seek for riches at all.

Jacob 2
17 Think of your brethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your substance, that they may be rich like unto you. [There's that temporal equality again.]

18 But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.

19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted.

[Finrock]

I think my first sentence in fact includes qualifiers. Indeed, the point of the article cited was to explain what, in context, "the wise" meant - that is, to qualify it, to explain it. The wise are the forward-thinkers, the planners, the schemers, who lay in store temporally against the future, who acquire credentials / degrees to rise above others in the jobs markets, and so on.

You see, there are two ways to read 2 Nephi 9:42 - one way as containing a qualifier, and the other way as a blanket condemnation. Since the Lord is no respecter of men, there is not a non-arbitrary way to say only some of the wise, the learned, and the rich must cast away their wisdom, learning, and riches for the Lord to open unto them, while others do not; we are to be equal temporally and this not grudgingly or else we cannot be equal spiritually. Therefore you cannot say the blanket condemnation of the wise, the learned, and the rich being puffed up as such, and that they must first cast all these things away or else the Lord will not open unto them, is not the intended meaning.

But let's consider it a qualifier, and assume only those are condemned who are puffed up because of those things, and only those so condemned must cast those things away. So who are those that are puffed up because of their wisdom (planning, scheming, foresightful, practicing prudent economics, &c.), their learning (degrees, credentials, licenses, &c.), and their riches (possessing substance above immediate need and not giving upon request)? Precisely those to whom the Lord has not opened. And since there are very few who have been received into heaven while in the flesh, that ought to give pause and reason to consider again that the blanket condemnation may well be in fact the intended meaning.

It is good to be learned - having studied, acquired knowledge - if one hearkens unto the counsels of the Lord. That doesn't happen very frequently. And the degrees and credentials still must be cast aside or else the Lord would be a respecter of persons.

Those who are received into heaven - those to whom the Lord opens - may well be blessed with temporal substance afterwards, for the blessings of the earth may well be promised to such. If one has not been received into heaven, though, then for what purpose does one salivate over Abraham's wealth - of which it is written he gave all he possessed above his needs to Melchizedek for his tithes - rather than pay heed with all diligence to the commandments of the Lord?

It is not written Abraham sought for wealth, either, but he had been received into heaven. Those who have a hope in Christ only seek riches for the purpose of doing good and not for themselves - that is, to give them away, pay off others' debts, and so on - if they seek for riches at all.

Jacob 2
17 Think of your brethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your substance, that they may be rich like unto you. [There's that temporal equality again.]

18 But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.

19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted.

Thanks for the clarification.

To be clear on another point, are you defining the rich as those who possess "substance above immediate need"?

-Finrock

[Finrock]

"of which it is written [Abraham] gave all he possessed above his needs to Melchizedek for his tithes"

Where is this written?

-Finrock

[Finrock]

I think my first sentence in fact includes qualifiers. Indeed, the point of the article cited was to explain what, in context, "the wise" meant - that is, to qualify it, to explain it. The wise are the forward-thinkers, the planners, the schemers, who lay in store temporally against the future, who acquire credentials / degrees to rise above others in the jobs markets, and so on.

It did include a qualifier for the wise, which I should have mentioned and acknowledged. Which, based on how you are defining it, the wise covers the learned as well. Kinda a two in one combo.

-Finrock

[Yod]

I think my first sentence in fact includes qualifiers. Indeed, the point of the article cited was to explain what, in context, "the wise" meant - that is, to qualify it, to explain it. The wise are the forward-thinkers, the planners, the schemers, who lay in store temporally against the future, who acquire credentials / degrees to rise above others in the jobs markets, and so on.

It did include a qualifier for the wise, which I should have mentioned and acknowledged. Which, based on how you are defining it, the wise covers the learned as well. Kinda a two in one combo.

-Finrock

And the rich. As I mentioned, there is considerable overlap between these three groups.

[Yod]

"of which it is written [Abraham] gave all he possessed above his needs to Melchizedek for his tithes"

Where is this written?

-Finrock

JST Genesis
Gen 14:39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him [Melchizedek] tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need.

Gen 14:40 And it came to pass that God blessed Abram and gave unto him riches, and honor, and lands for an everlasting possession, according to the covenant which he had made and according to the blessing wherewith Melchizedek had blessed him.

The rest of JST Genesis 14 is quite interesting also on this topic.

[Yod]

To be clear on another point, are you defining the rich as those who possess "substance above immediate need"?

The rich are:
1. Those who have taken more than they immediately need, and
2. Do not give to others upon request.

Basically, they have taken too much, stored it for themselves, and don't obey the Lord's commandments to give to all who ask, to lend to anyone without asking for it back, and so on. They are covetous: wanting stuff for themselves, which Paul says is idolatry. Paul also defined "need" as having adequate nourishment and covering.

D&C 49
20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin.
21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.

D&C 104:18 Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked [earliest text: devils], lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment.

Abraham had stuff just dumped in his lap, and gave upon request, and sought out the poor to give to, liberated captives, and took strangers into his home.

2 Nephi 9
28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.

30 But wo unto the rich, who are rich as to the things of the world. For because they are rich they despise the poor, and they persecute the meek, and their hearts are upon their treasures; wherefore, their treasure is their god. And behold, their treasure shall perish with them also.

We saw some of that yesterday in the thread on five actionable and specific commandments of Jesus Christ. Incidentally, this serves to strengthen the "blanket condemnation" reading of 2 Nephi 9:42.

D&C 1
8 And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, bearing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious;

9 Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measure—

10 Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man.

11 Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear:

12 Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh;

13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.

14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall.

[drtanner]

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2003/03/look ... k?lang=eng

[Yod]

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2003/03/look ... k?lang=eng

Yes, it is a philosophy of men that finding out what the Lord requires for salvation, so that we may do it, is "looking beyond the mark."

[Finrock]

I think its best to seek first the kingdom of God and let other things follow. God is the ultimate judge of character. Those who are guilty will feel convicted, unless they are past feeling. I will not use the criteria of "someone who is rich, learned, and wise" to judge another as being despised of the Lord unless I am given insight in to their heart and mind by the Holy Ghost. It is possible for people to be learned, yet they hearken unto the counsels of the Lord. And, it is possible for someone to be seeking after riches after having obtained the kingdom of God and they seek for riches so that they may give to the poor, clothe the naked, and bring about good.

I won't judge or hinder another either who may have an errand of the Lord to warn his neighbor, unless, again, I'm given specific insight by the Spirit. It is good to warn and to let others know that they must give up all worldly things so that they may obtain the riches of eternity. It is good to warn and to exhort people to seek first the kingdom of God. It is good to warn and to exhort others to be equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly, and to impart of your substance, and to love your neighbor as yourself, to love your enemy, to do good, to keep the commandments of God, etc.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

Basically, they have taken too much, stored it for themselves, and don't obey the Lord's commandments to give to all who ask, to lend to anyone without asking for it back, and so on. They are covetous: wanting stuff for themselves, which Paul says is idolatry. Paul also defined "need" as having adequate nourishment and covering.

The United Order calls for our stewardship to consist of our needs and wants, so long as our wants are just, and amply supplied, according to our family, according to our circumstances.

33 And again, if there shall be properties in the hands of the church, or any individuals of it, more than is necessary for their support after this first consecration, which is a residue to be consecrated unto the bishop, it shall be kept to administer to those who have not, from time to time, that every man who has need may be amply supplied and receive according to his wants.

And

3 Wherefore, let my servant Edward Partridge, and those whom he has chosen, in whom I am well pleased, appoint unto this people their portions, every man equal according to his family, according to his circumstances and his wants and needs.

And

17 And you are to be equal, or in other words, you are to have equal claims on the properties, for the benefit of managing the concerns of your stewardships, every man according to his wants and his needs, inasmuch as his wants are just—

18 And all this for the benefit of the church of the living God, that every man may improve upon his talent, that every man may gain other talents, yea, even an hundred fold, to be cast into the Lord’s storehouse, to become the common property of the whole church—

19 Every man seeking the interest of his neighbor, and doing all things with an eye single to the glory of God.

20 This order I have appointed to be an everlasting order unto you, and unto your successors, inasmuch as you sin not.

-Finrock

[shadow]

Remember the three categories of people whom the LORD God despises: the wise, the learned (degreed, credentialed), and the rich (those who have taken more than they personally need and do not give on request).

Why do you suppose that the learned that Lord is speaking of are the "degreed, credentialed"? I don't recall reading anywhere in the scriptures where it's just the "degreed" or "credentialed"? It seems that He's referring to those who think they're so smart that they don't need God. Those who think they have it all figured out. Those who lack humility. Obviously it doesn't take a degree or a credential to be a bloated idiot pontificating about how smart they think they are while being full of bitterness. Heck, there are people on this site who probably don't have degrees who think they have it all figured out (learned).