EdGoble wrote: Jeremy wrote:
EdGoble wrote:There is no other substitute other than just doing what you are called to do, and praying for it.
That sounds a lot like what Amonhi shared.
Actually, if you carefully studied all of the words that have been going back and forth, you would notice the key distinction. It doesn't have to do with the notion that one can ask for calling and election and that there is the possibility of receiving it in life. I think all can agree on that.
And so, most of that distinction has to do with the likely reasons why Amonhi is doing what he is doing and what he may be trying to accomplish by doing it, and the notion that people ought to share their sacred experiences openly. It has the appearance to me of an extreme gospel hobby, and this person continually does this on this forum. Its the fact that some of the things that Amonhi is advocating, to me, invite the kind of deception I am warning about.
And here is the risk: both real second comforter experiences, as well as false second comforter experiences happen to be real from the point of view that they are both spiritual experiences. the only difference is the source. And people are beguiled because they can't discern the difference if they are not careful, and do not have the right spirit about them. Eve's interaction with Satan before she ate the fruit was real interaction with the adversary that resulted in beguilement. Now, if people know what's good for them, in my un-authoritative opinion, they ought to do what it takes to not invite deception. If Adam and Eve had not been careful and wise when the devil appeared to them in the capacity as the "god of this world," then they would have been deceived. The same is so when the devil came to Moses claiming to be the Only Begotten. The only thing that saved them in these instances was discernment and being careful.
Denver Snuffer is a testament to what extremes these things can lead to.
Thanks Ed. I would only add that if a person has properly prepared themselves by becoming sanctified through the spirit and has experienced the rebirth spoken of so often in the BOM they would have that power of discernment and would not fall for deceptive voices or counterfeits. Having ones calling and election made sure is not just for the asking because we are curious or impatient. It takes a serious effort on ones part with a life filled with discipleship and complete rejection of the natural man by strict adherence to the Spirit. I would once again encourage reading Chapters 4 and 5 of John Pontius book Following the Light of Christ Into His Presence where he speaks first of the rebirth process and then our opportunities after rebirth which includes the sacred blessing of calling and election. You will see some stark differences between Amonhi and his fast track method and what the Lord has revealed through scripture and his true Servants.
I agree. If someone wants to read more on Calling and Election, they should read Pontius' writings, because his advice coincides with the teachings on Calling and Election.
One has to ask; how does any of us even know about the doctrine of 'Making one's calling and election sure'? We know about it because the CofJCofLDS teaches about it. That means, THE LDS CHURCH is the source for what it is, and how to get it. Yet, others have hijacked it and tried to make it their own--outside of the LDS faith--and that's part of the problem with what the people who use the Amonhi username teach on this subject. They are all anonymous and I'm quite certain many if not all of them are no longer members of the LDS church--yet they are preaching their twisted version of the doctrine, which is this:
The Fastest Way to get the Promise for Yourself:
It is so simple that nobody thinks of it, (You don't even have to wash in the river 7 times). However, we know many people who have received it this way… Here is how…
Set a date for when you will ask for it.
Prepare as you wish, (fast, study, pray for the spirit and angels to attend, put your name on the temple prayer roll, etc. even consider asking others to fast and pray for you).
On the date specified, in sincere prayer, open your heart completely to God. Trust in His judgment completely knowing that he is your Judge and not You.
Ask God the following questions:
1. Have I made my calling & Election sure? – Wait for a response if you get a negative response, then ask…
2. May I have your promise, right now, that I will receive Exaltation & eternal Life? – Wait for a response…
3. And only if you get a negative response ask the following…Who do I need to “become” to be worthy of the promise? – Wait for a response…
That’s it. (The Words are not that important, just guidelines...)
In reading this, I'm not sure how anyone who has a basic understanding of Calling and Election (and a knowledge and testimony of the Gospel) could even consider this "method". "Prepare if you wish"???? It takes more than simply fasting and praying, or studying for a while--this is something that comes from overcoming trials, being obedient, keeping commandments, serving and loving others--overcoming the Natural man, submitting to the will of the Father in all things using the Atonement to cleanse our souls--in other words, becoming Sanctified. The 'Amonhi' version, which I pulled off the Amonhis' thread is nothing like what the Prophet Joseph Smith or the church teaches on this. And of course, a person who's actually to this point in their life, is not going to break commandments, commit adultery or steal. They have overcome those kinds of serious temptations and have lost the desire to sin--so that's not a concern and exactly why they have qualified for this blessing.
Having one's calling and election made sure comes after a lifetime of devotion, faithfulness and obedience, it is not something that comes simply because a person a prayed diligently for it. Praying and seeking for it is only one part. Like the 'oil' in the lamps of the wise virgins, some of what qualifies a person for their Calling and Election sure cannot be hurried or skipped over, borrowed or bought. And that's where the Elliason group (which apparently posts under the name Amonhi) have gone wrong. It IS a short cut and can't give the person what they actually desire, it's a sham and it is irresponsible to encourage people that they can achieve this glorious blessing without even mentioning the qualifying requirements which they must have.
And there's the danger of it. It absolutely opens people up to being deceived by false spirits. And, as I've read some of the claims of people who've followed the Amonhi method for Achieving a 'Calling and Election' experience, it's obvious to me they've been deceived into thinking they are seeing Christ but in fact are experiencing what Joseph Smith warned of--- evil spirits masquerading as an 'Angel of Light'. And since they are spiritually immature, they are unable to recognize this.
As members of the Lord's church we all should be desirous and working to receive our Calling and Election, but we need to beware of being deceived. Here is an article on this topic which explains it very well, for those who are interested in receiving their ACTUAL Calling and Election.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/07/acce ... e?lang=eng
Some quotes from the article, Joseph Smith Jr. taught:
“When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.” (Teachings, p. 348.)
Joseph Smith said: “Though they might hear the voice of God and know that Jesus was the Son of God, this would be no evidence that their election and calling was made sure. … They then would want that more sure word of prophecy, that they were sealed in the heavens and had the promise of eternal life in the kingdom of God. Then, having this promise sealed unto them, it was an anchor to the soul, sure and steadfast. Though the thunders might roll and lightnings flash, and earthquakes bellow, and war gather thick around, yet this hope and knowledge would support the soul in every hour of trial, trouble and tribulation.” (Teachings, p. 298.)
“After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure.” (Teachings, p. 150.)
Elder Marion G. Romney said this in General Conference:
President Marion G. Romney, as a member of the Council of the Twelve, admonished the Saints in general conference to make their calling and election sure and said:
“The fullness of eternal life is not attainable in mortality, but the peace which is its harbinger and which comes as a result of making one’s calling and election sure is attainable in this life. The Lord has promised that ‘… he who doeth the works of righteousness shall receive his reward, even peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come.’ (D&C 59:23.)
Making one's calling and election sure is not something you decide to simply ask for and continue to ask until you get an answer. Joseph Smith Jr. made this clear:
“Then I would exhort you to go on and continue to call upon God until you make your calling and election sure for yourselves, by obtaining this more sure word of prophecy, and wait patiently for the promise until you obtain it.” (Teachings, p. 299.)
As in all things, we are to wait patiently on the Lord for his will to be done, all the while, continuing to sanctify and qualify ourselves for this blessing by the lives we lead.