BEWARE, there is a Wolf among us.

[Finrock]

#-o

Has he done that to your faith?

Bwahahaha~ That was funny.

Thanks Obrian!

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Is this thread for Amonhi to get a Temple Recommend?? Sounds like a worthiness interview. You forgot to ask him about his little factory. But practice makes perfect

I'm guessing you're utilizing sarcasm and don't want serious answers.

Did my post/questions offend you?

-Finrock

[kennyhs]

The Wolves have been identified and will be separated out.

By whom will this identification process be conducted through, and who will separate them?
God? Forum members?

[Rachael]

#-o

Bwahahaha~ That was funny.

Thanks Obrian!

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Is this thread for Amonhi to get a Temple Recommend?? Sounds like a worthiness interview. You forgot to ask him about his little factory. But practice makes perfect

I'm guessing you're utilizing sarcasm and don't want serious answers.

Did my post/questions offend you?

-Finrock

Sarcasm was intended, yes, but your interrogation did sound like a worthiness interview with a PH leader.

[rewcox]

#-o

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Is this thread for Amonhi to get a Temple Recommend?? Sounds like a worthiness interview. You forgot to ask him about his little factory. But practice makes perfect

I'm guessing you're utilizing sarcasm and don't want serious answers.

Did my post/questions offend you?

-Finrock

Sarcasm was intended, yes, but your interrogation did sound like a worthiness interview with a PH leader.

Amonhi needs one, desperately!

[Original_Intent]

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

I'm not Amonhi, but I felt the need to respond to this.

At one point the church serves as a necessary crutch. there is nothing wrong with that, when we are lame, a crutch is a good thing.

At some point we no longer need a crutch. that isn;t to say that we no longer need the church, but if we continue to use it as a crutch at that point, it becomes a hindrance, not a help.

What purpose the church needs to serve when we no longer need it as a crutch, perhaps it is best to let each person figure out on their own.

I do feel that holding the church in veneration is almost as wrong and ignorant as holding the government in veneration. Like these fools piddling their drawers on social media over this QB that wouldn't stand for the national anthem.

[AI2.0]

Is he going to huff, and puff and blow your faith down?

Has he done that to your faith?

Bwahahaha~ That was funny.

Thanks Obrian!

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Amonhi has his defenders here, I'm sure they don't want him to answer these questions and I'd be very surprised if he did. That would expose too much about himself which could lessen his influence with some on this forum--NOT his defenders....they most likely already know the answers to your questions.

[Finrock]

#-o

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Is this thread for Amonhi to get a Temple Recommend?? Sounds like a worthiness interview. You forgot to ask him about his little factory. But practice makes perfect

I'm guessing you're utilizing sarcasm and don't want serious answers.

Did my post/questions offend you?

-Finrock

Sarcasm was intended, yes, but your interrogation did sound like a worthiness interview with a PH leader.

Okay...the questions are for Amonhi. I'm curious to know his responses.

I don't know exactly what to make of your posts here, but if I were to make a guess I would guess that you don't like that I am asking those questions. Assuming that is the case, I don't know why you would have a problem with those questions, but, okay. All I can say for certain at this point is that I now know that you feel like my post is like a worthiness interview with a PH leader (it is not) and you believe that I am interrogating (I am not).

I certainly did not expect any controversy...

-Finrock

[rewcox]

#-o
Is this thread for Amonhi to get a Temple Recommend?? Sounds like a worthiness interview. You forgot to ask him about his little factory. But practice makes perfect

I'm guessing you're utilizing sarcasm and don't want serious answers.

Did my post/questions offend you?

-Finrock

Sarcasm was intended, yes, but your interrogation did sound like a worthiness interview with a PH leader.

Okay...the questions are for Amonhi. I'm curious to know his responses.

I don't know exactly what to make of your posts here, but if I were to make a guess I would guess that you don't like that I am asking those questions. Assuming that is the case, I don't know why you would have a problem with those questions, but, okay. All I can say for certain at this point is that I now know that you feel like my post is like a worthiness interview with a PH leader (it is not) and you believe that I am interrogating (I am not).

I certainly did not expect any controversy...

-Finrock

It's ok Finrock, I asked the same questions. This being a "pro-LDS" site, it can be confusing. Amonhi went to the Church of the Firstborn some 15 years ago. He has a thread to help you get your calling and election. He meets with the Church of the Firsborn.

They must not be very busy because he likes to come to LDSFF and rail against the church and leaders. Those who have dis affections to the church like Amonhi since they don't like the church and leaders also. He could be a wolf if you consider he is trying to create doubt in the church and leaders.

Now you might understand why I get a little hard on you, I don't want you going down that path.

[Rachael]

#-o
Is this thread for Amonhi to get a Temple Recommend?? Sounds like a worthiness interview. You forgot to ask him about his little factory. But practice makes perfect

I'm guessing you're utilizing sarcasm and don't want serious answers.

Did my post/questions offend you?

-Finrock

Sarcasm was intended, yes, but your interrogation did sound like a worthiness interview with a PH leader.

Okay...the questions are for Amonhi. I'm curious to know his responses.

I don't know exactly what to make of your posts here, but if I were to make a guess I would guess that you don't like that I am asking those questions. Assuming that is the case, I don't know why you would have a problem with those questions, but, okay. All I can say for certain at this point is that I now know that you feel like my post is like a worthiness interview with a PH leader (it is not) and you believe that I am interrogating (I am not).

I certainly did not expect any controversy...

-Finrock

Wiki definition: "Interrogation (also called questioning) is interviewing as commonly employed by law enforcement officers, military personnel, and intelligence agencies [and PH leaders] with the goal of eliciting useful [or maybe useless] information..."

You've been here probably longer than me. We both pretty much already know where Amonhi stands on most issues.

But point taken. The questions were not for me. And I don't want controversy with you. I agree with you on most things you post.

[Finrock]

I'm guessing you're utilizing sarcasm and don't want serious answers.

Did my post/questions offend you?

-Finrock

Sarcasm was intended, yes, but your interrogation did sound like a worthiness interview with a PH leader.

Okay...the questions are for Amonhi. I'm curious to know his responses.

I don't know exactly what to make of your posts here, but if I were to make a guess I would guess that you don't like that I am asking those questions. Assuming that is the case, I don't know why you would have a problem with those questions, but, okay. All I can say for certain at this point is that I now know that you feel like my post is like a worthiness interview with a PH leader (it is not) and you believe that I am interrogating (I am not).

I certainly did not expect any controversy...

-Finrock

Wiki definition: "Interrogation (also called questioning) is interviewing as commonly employed by law enforcement officers, military personnel, and intelligence agencies [and PH leaders] with the goal of eliciting useful [or maybe useless] information..."

You've been here probably longer than me. We both pretty much already know where Amonhi stands on most issues.

But point taken. The questions were not for me. And I don't want controversy with you. I agree with you on most things you post.

The definition I think of when I think of interrogate is "to ask (someone) questions in a thorough and often forceful way". Like, I'm sitting him down and getting in his face and aggressively peppering him with all sorts of questions like a police officer. But, your definition is a bit more benign, so with the exception of being some official or officer, I was asking questions with the goal of eliciting...information.

Thanks! I'm glad you don't actually want controversy with me...that would be weird to me. :))

-Finrock

[Rachael]

Has he done that to your faith?

Bwahahaha~ That was funny.

Thanks Obrian!

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

#1 Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

#2 Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#3 Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#4 Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

#5 Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Amonhi has his defenders here, I'm sure they don't want him to answer these questions and I'd be very surprised if he did. That would expose too much about himself which could lessen his influence with some on this forum--NOT his defenders....they most likely already know the answers to your questions.

I'll answer even tho I wasn't asked.
#1: Everyone is accountable to God. Cain's question was, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Yes, to some degree we are. No one is an island. But being accountable to a church? Isn't a church a church 'when two or three gathered in My [Christ's] name' the same thing? If so, yes. We are accountable. Are we accountable to a corporation? IDK that one. Are we accountable to JS? I say no. Are we accountable to JC? YES!

#2: Not active. Standing Ok. I voluntarily turned in my TR then stopped attending. I was sick of the manuals and wasn't gonna teach from the correlated material any longer.

#3 & 4: If cutting ties to the CoJCoLDS or any other church helps having a personal relationship with Christ, cut ties. If it helps keeping ties, stay in the boat.

#5: No. Individuals are individuals. What helps one may hinder another.

[Rachael]

Sarcasm was intended, yes, but your interrogation did sound like a worthiness interview with a PH leader.

Okay...the questions are for Amonhi. I'm curious to know his responses.

I don't know exactly what to make of your posts here, but if I were to make a guess I would guess that you don't like that I am asking those questions. Assuming that is the case, I don't know why you would have a problem with those questions, but, okay. All I can say for certain at this point is that I now know that you feel like my post is like a worthiness interview with a PH leader (it is not) and you believe that I am interrogating (I am not).

I certainly did not expect any controversy...

-Finrock

Wiki definition: "Interrogation (also called questioning) is interviewing as commonly employed by law enforcement officers, military personnel, and intelligence agencies [and PH leaders] with the goal of eliciting useful [or maybe useless] information..."

You've been here probably longer than me. We both pretty much already know where Amonhi stands on most issues.

But point taken. The questions were not for me. And I don't want controversy with you. I agree with you on most things you post.

The definition I think of when I think of interrogate is "to ask (someone) questions in a thorough and often forceful way". Like, I'm sitting him down and getting in his face and aggressively peppering him with all sorts of questions like a police officer. But, your definition is a bit more benign, so with the exception of being some official or officer, I was asking questions with the goal of eliciting...information.

Thanks! I'm glad you don't actually want controversy with me...that would be weird to me. :))

-Finrock

TBH, I really didn't pay attention to who I was responding to until you posted back, but then it was too late to undo it. I have read enough of your opinion s to know the post I initially responded to should not have been taken in the context I took it..and ran with it. I'm sorry. :ymhug:

[Finrock]

Okay...the questions are for Amonhi. I'm curious to know his responses.

I don't know exactly what to make of your posts here, but if I were to make a guess I would guess that you don't like that I am asking those questions. Assuming that is the case, I don't know why you would have a problem with those questions, but, okay. All I can say for certain at this point is that I now know that you feel like my post is like a worthiness interview with a PH leader (it is not) and you believe that I am interrogating (I am not).

I certainly did not expect any controversy...

-Finrock

Wiki definition: "Interrogation (also called questioning) is interviewing as commonly employed by law enforcement officers, military personnel, and intelligence agencies [and PH leaders] with the goal of eliciting useful [or maybe useless] information..."

You've been here probably longer than me. We both pretty much already know where Amonhi stands on most issues.

But point taken. The questions were not for me. And I don't want controversy with you. I agree with you on most things you post.

The definition I think of when I think of interrogate is "to ask (someone) questions in a thorough and often forceful way". Like, I'm sitting him down and getting in his face and aggressively peppering him with all sorts of questions like a police officer. But, your definition is a bit more benign, so with the exception of being some official or officer, I was asking questions with the goal of eliciting...information.

Thanks! I'm glad you don't actually want controversy with me...that would be weird to me. :))

-Finrock

TBH, I really didn't pay attention to who I was responding to until you posted back, but then it was too late to undo it. I have read enough of your opinion s to know the post I initially responded to should not have been taken in the context I took it..and ran with it. I'm sorry. :ymhug:

Hehe, don't sweat it. No offense taken. :ymhug:

-Finrock

[kennyhs]

Bwahahaha~ That was funny.

Thanks Obrian!

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

#1 Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

#2 Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#3 Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#4 Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

#5 Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Amonhi has his defenders here, I'm sure they don't want him to answer these questions and I'd be very surprised if he did. That would expose too much about himself which could lessen his influence with some on this forum--NOT his defenders....they most likely already know the answers to your questions.

I'll answer even tho I wasn't asked.
#1: Everyone is accountable to God. Cain's question was, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Yes, to some degree we are. No one is an island. But being accountable to a church? Isn't a church a church 'when two or three gathered in My [Christ's] name' the same thing? If so, yes. We are accountable. Are we accountable to a corporation? IDK that one. Are we accountable to JS? I say no. Are we accountable to JC? YES!

#2: Not active. Standing Ok. I voluntarily turned in my TR then stopped attending. I was sick of the manuals and wasn't gonna teach from the correlated material any longer.

#3 & 4: If cutting ties to the CoJCoLDS or any other church hinders a personal relationship with Christ, cut ties. If it helps, stay in the boat.

#5: No. Individuals are individuals. What helps one may hinder another.

Rachel, sometimes a superior intellect is a hindrance. The manuals were fine with me, I needed the help. You would be happy to know the "Come onto Christ" program gives you a topic and you teach correct doctrine the way you would like. It's one thing to get out of the boat if it's not for you, but another to then criticize the captain. I'm not saying you do this but many just can't leave the boat alone, wanting to sink and destroy, which is something they will never accomplish. If one wants to draw near unto Christ, there is no better place than the church He established here on the earth with the keys to the priesthood, the power to redeem the dead and perfect the saints. The Temple ordinances and covenants bring power in the priesthood and bless your family and yourself. It is real and true.

[Obrien]

Okay...the questions are for Amonhi. I'm curious to know his responses.

I don't know exactly what to make of your posts here, but if I were to make a guess I would guess that you don't like that I am asking those questions. Assuming that is the case, I don't know why you would have a problem with those questions, but, okay. All I can say for certain at this point is that I now know that you feel like my post is like a worthiness interview with a PH leader (it is not) and you believe that I am interrogating (I am not).

I certainly did not expect any controversy...

-Finrock

It's ok Finrock, I asked the same questions. This being a "pro-LDS" site, it can be confusing. Amonhi went to the Church of the Firstborn some 15 years ago. He has a thread to help you get your calling and election. He meets with the Church of the Firsborn.

They must not be very busy because he likes to come to LDSFF and rail against the church and leaders. Those who have dis affections to the church like Amonhi since they don't like the church and leaders also. He could be a wolf if you consider he is trying to create doubt in the church and leaders.

Now you might understand why I get a little hard on you, I don't want you going down that path.

Rewcox - can you provide examples of the accusation made above? I don't read every post by any means, so maybe I missed it. I just don't see very many people railing against the church / leaders here on this forum. Hell, at one time, I was probably one of the more vitriolic posters regarding these topics, and I have calmed down a lot. I was told to tone it down by the Creator, so I obeyed Him (mostly). I see Amonhi disagreeing with all y'alls interpretation of correct doctrines, so many label him a "wolf".

[Rachael]

I have been a bit vitriolic lately. I'm sorry in a way, but I am beginning to believe the man worship as I see it, or reverence for the leaders as others see it, is a form of idolatry.

[Rachael]

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

#1 Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

#2 Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#3 Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#4 Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

#5 Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Amonhi has his defenders here, I'm sure they don't want him to answer these questions and I'd be very surprised if he did. That would expose too much about himself which could lessen his influence with some on this forum--NOT his defenders....they most likely already know the answers to your questions.

I'll answer even tho I wasn't asked.
#1: Everyone is accountable to God. Cain's question was, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Yes, to some degree we are. No one is an island. But being accountable to a church? Isn't a church a church 'when two or three gathered in My [Christ's] name' the same thing? If so, yes. We are accountable. Are we accountable to a corporation? IDK that one. Are we accountable to JS? I say no. Are we accountable to JC? YES!

#2: Not active. Standing Ok. I voluntarily turned in my TR then stopped attending. I was sick of the manuals and wasn't gonna teach from the correlated material any longer.

#3 & 4: If cutting ties to the CoJCoLDS or any other church hinders a personal relationship with Christ, cut ties. If it helps, stay in the boat.

#5: No. Individuals are individuals. What helps one may hinder another.

Rachel, sometimes a superior intellect is a hindrance. The manuals were fine with me, I needed the help. You would be happy to know the "Come onto Christ" program gives you a topic and you teach correct doctrine the way you would like. It's one thing to get out of the boat if it's not for you, but another to then criticize the captain. I'm not saying you do this but many just can't leave the boat alone, wanting to sink and destroy, which is something they will never accomplish. If one wants to draw near unto Christ, there is no better place than the church He established here on the earth with the keys to the priesthood, the power to redeem the dead and perfect the saints. The Temple ordinances and covenants bring power in the priesthood and bless your family and yourself. It is real and true.

I don't think anyone is trying to sink and destroy the boat. The rub is the identity of the captain. So the PSRs are the captains according to one camp with Jesus in some war room acting as Admiral. The other group sees Jesus as captain. Period. If anyone wants to be great in His Kingdom, they are to be servants. So the leaders should swab the deck like everyone else. (And not how urban dictionary defines it). But if that is brought up, we are told to walk the plank.

[Mark]

Bwahahaha~ That was funny.

Thanks Obrian!

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

#1 Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

#2 Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#3 Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#4 Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

#5 Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Amonhi has his defenders here, I'm sure they don't want him to answer these questions and I'd be very surprised if he did. That would expose too much about himself which could lessen his influence with some on this forum--NOT his defenders....they most likely already know the answers to your questions.

I'll answer even tho I wasn't asked.
#1: Everyone is accountable to God. Cain's question was, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Yes, to some degree we are. No one is an island. But being accountable to a church? Isn't a church a church 'when two or three gathered in My [Christ's] name' the same thing? If so, yes. We are accountable. Are we accountable to a corporation? IDK that one. Are we accountable to JS? I say no. Are we accountable to JC? YES!

#2: Not active. Standing Ok. I voluntarily turned in my TR then stopped attending. I was sick of the manuals and wasn't gonna teach from the correlated material any longer.

#3 & 4: If cutting ties to the CoJCoLDS or any other church hinders a personal relationship with Christ, cut ties. If it helps, stay in the boat.

#5: No. Individuals are individuals. What helps one may hinder another.

You stopped Participating in temple worship and turned in your recommend because you were sick of the manuals and the correlation material? Wow.. I'm sure there is nothing more to this story. Right? #-o

[Finrock]

I'm guessing you're utilizing sarcasm and don't want serious answers.

Did my post/questions offend you?

-Finrock

Sarcasm was intended, yes, but your interrogation did sound like a worthiness interview with a PH leader.

Okay...the questions are for Amonhi. I'm curious to know his responses.

I don't know exactly what to make of your posts here, but if I were to make a guess I would guess that you don't like that I am asking those questions. Assuming that is the case, I don't know why you would have a problem with those questions, but, okay. All I can say for certain at this point is that I now know that you feel like my post is like a worthiness interview with a PH leader (it is not) and you believe that I am interrogating (I am not).

I certainly did not expect any controversy...

-Finrock

It's ok Finrock, I asked the same questions. This being a "pro-LDS" site, it can be confusing. Amonhi went to the Church of the Firstborn some 15 years ago. He has a thread to help you get your calling and election. He meets with the Church of the Firsborn.

They must not be very busy because he likes to come to LDSFF and rail against the church and leaders. Those who have dis affections to the church like Amonhi since they don't like the church and leaders also. He could be a wolf if you consider he is trying to create doubt in the church and leaders.

Now you might understand why I get a little hard on you, I don't want you going down that path.

My questions were not intended as a platform to take shots at Amonhi. They are sincere and with pure intent. As I've considered his words over time, the thoughts I shared are the impressions I've gotten. I want to either confirm or deny my impressions by allowing him to answer directly. I'm not against Amonhi. Also, since many have accused Amonhi of this or that this may clear some of those things up. I'm not interested in judging Amonhi, I'd just rather not make assumptions about what he feels/believes and advocates.

Not saying you are right or wrong, but I appreciate you looking out for me, rewcox. I mean that.

-Finrock

[kennyhs]

Amonhi has his defenders here, I'm sure they don't want him to answer these questions and I'd be very surprised if he did. That would expose too much about himself which could lessen his influence with some on this forum--NOT his defenders....they most likely already know the answers to your questions.

I'll answer even tho I wasn't asked.
#1: Everyone is accountable to God. Cain's question was, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Yes, to some degree we are. No one is an island. But being accountable to a church? Isn't a church a church 'when two or three gathered in My [Christ's] name' the same thing? If so, yes. We are accountable. Are we accountable to a corporation? IDK that one. Are we accountable to JS? I say no. Are we accountable to JC? YES!

#2: Not active. Standing Ok. I voluntarily turned in my TR then stopped attending. I was sick of the manuals and wasn't gonna teach from the correlated material any longer.

#3 & 4: If cutting ties to the CoJCoLDS or any other church hinders a personal relationship with Christ, cut ties. If it helps, stay in the boat.

#5: No. Individuals are individuals. What helps one may hinder another.

Rachel, sometimes a superior intellect is a hindrance. The manuals were fine with me, I needed the help. You would be happy to know the "Come onto Christ" program gives you a topic and you teach correct doctrine the way you would like. It's one thing to get out of the boat if it's not for you, but another to then criticize the captain. I'm not saying you do this but many just can't leave the boat alone, wanting to sink and destroy, which is something they will never accomplish. If one wants to draw near unto Christ, there is no better place than the church He established here on the earth with the keys to the priesthood, the power to redeem the dead and perfect the saints. The Temple ordinances and covenants bring power in the priesthood and bless your family and yourself. It is real and true.

I don't think anyone is trying to sink and destroy the boat. The rub is the identity of the captain. So the PSRs are the captains according to one camp with Jesus in some war room acting as Admiral. The other group sees Jesus as captain. Period. If anyone wants to be great in His Kingdom, they are to be servants. So the leaders should swab the deck like everyone else. (And not how urban dictionary defines it). But if that is brought up, we are told to walk the plank.

Oh they have swabbed the deck, more than most of us.

family including grandparents, aunts and uncles.
•At age 12, Monson began working part-time with his father at Western Hotel Register Company, a printing firm. This first job would be forerunner to his professional career in the printing industry.
•As a boy, Monson and his family would spend the summer in a cabin at Vivian Park in Provo Canyon. It was there that Monson developed his life-long love of fishing.
•Monson was a student at West High School, where he excelled in English and History and became president of the Spanish Club and a sergeant in the ROTC.
•In the fall of 1944, Monson enrolled as a freshman at the University of Utah.
•On October 6, 1945, Monson left Salt Lake City to pursue basic training in San Diego with the United States Naval Reserve.
•In 1946, after the end of the war, Monson returned home and continued his education. He graduated with Honors two years later from the University of Utah with a degree in business. Following graduation, Monson began working for the Deseret news as the Assistant Classified Advertising Manager.
•On October 7, 1948, Monson and Frances Beverly Johnson were married in the Salt Lake Temple.
•On Sunday, May 7, 1950, at the age of 22, Monson became Bishop of his boyhood ward. With about 1,060 members, the Sixth-Seventh ward was comprised of many elderly people including about 85 widows and the largest welfare load of the Church. Of the ward members, Monson said, “these were good people who never had a great deal of financial means but who loved the Lord and kept His commandments.
•While serving as bishop, Monson’s wife Frances gave birth to their son Tom in 1951 and daughter Ann in 1954. Later, Frances delivered their third child Clark in 1959 while Monson was serving as a mission president with his family in Canada.
•On June 16, 1955, Monson was called to serve as counselor in a Stake Presidency. Monson was not aware of the calling prior to it being announced over the pulpit.
•In 1953, Monson was named assistant general manager of the Deseret News Press. He served as president of the printing industry in Utah and took an active role in national printing conventions.
•On February 21, 1959, Monson was called to serve as president of the Canadian Mission and was asked to prepare to leave with his family in just three weeks.
•Upon completing his mission presidency, Monson returned to Salt Lake City and was named the General Manager of the Deseret Press making him responsible for the largest printing plant west of the Mississippi. During this time, Monson served on many Church committees including the Adult Correlation Committee where he helped pioneer the Home Teaching program of the Church.
•On October 3, 1963, Monson was called to be a member of the Council of the Twelve Apostles by President David O. McKay.
•In his first General Conference address as a member of the Council of the Twelve, Monson said, “I know that God lives. There is no question in my mind. I know that this is His work, and I know that the sweetest experience in all this life is to feel His promptings as He directs us in the furtherance of His work.” Following spiritual promptings has held particular importance for Monson as he works to serve others.
•Beginning in 1965, Monson was assigned to supervise the missions of the South Pacific where he developed a unique love and admiration of the faith of the saints in the region.
•President Monson was instrumental in the construction of a temple in Freiberg, Germany, behind the Iron Curtain, at a time when such a thing was considered impossible.
•During his years as a member of the Council of the Twelve, Monson served as chairman of the Scriptures Publications Committee. For many years, Monson supervised the process which eventually resulted in new editions of all four Standard Works of the Church.
•Monson values community service and has spent nearly three decades on the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. He received Scouting’s Silver Beaver and Silver Buffalo awards. He is a recipient of the International Scouting’s highest award, the Bronze Wolf.
•On November 10, 1985, after twenty-two years of service in the Council of the Twelve Apostles, Monson was called by President Ezra Taft Benson to serve as Second Counselor in the First Presidency. In 1994, he was called as Second Counselor to President Howard W Hunter and in 1995, was called as First Counselor to President Gordon B. Hinckley.

[kennyhs]

President Gordon B. Hinckley gave service his whole life.

Despite his age, President Hinckley was blessed with a keen mind, good health and incredible energy as he led the global expansion of a faith that, according to U.S. News & World Report, "has sustained the most rapid growth rate of any new faith group in American history."

Latter-day Saints viewed President Hinckley as a prophet of God in the same way they revered the prophets of scripture. Church members believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is literally a restoration of the church originally established by Jesus Christ during His mortal lifetime. Part of that restoration includes living prophets.

"This is not a reformation," President Hinckley said. "This is a restoration of that church which was set up by the Savior. This is the handiwork of the God of heaven and His Beloved Son."

President Hinckley's deep involvement in the world expansion of the Church long predated 1995, when he became its world leader at age 84. He was involved in major leadership roles since 1958 and was ordained in 1961 to the Quorum of Twelve Apostles — one of the highest governing bodies of the Church.

President Hinckley was by far the most traveled of the 15 prophets who have led the Church since the restoration in the early 19th century, logging more than 250,000 miles over the years in meeting with, instructing and inspiring Latter-day Saints in dozens of nations. In fact, at the age of 95, he traveled nearly 25,000 miles on a seven-nation, nine-day tour to Vladivostok, Russia; Taipei, Taiwan; Hong Kong, China; Delhi, India; Nairobi, Kenya; Aba, Nigeria; and Seoul, South Korea.

He was the driving force for the erection of dozens of Latter-day Saint temples in the past few years, bringing the number to over a 120 around the world. Temples, which are special buildings reserved for the highest sacraments of the faith, are significantly different from the thousands of chapels or meetinghouses used for Sunday worship.

President Hinckley personally initiated a smaller, more practical style of building so that temples could be erected more readily in far-flung locations and be more accessible to Church members.

He also oversaw the rebuilding of the Nauvoo Illinois Temple, built on the same site and to virtually the same exterior specifications and design as the original Nauvoo Temple, which was dedicated more than 160 years ago. At a news conference prior to the dedication, President Hinckley said: "The past is behind us, and the future ahead never looked better than it does today. ... This is the greatest season in the history of the Church, and it will only get better."

President Hinckley frequently expressed concern for the well-being of all of God's children and was aware of the impoverished circumstances of many members of the Church in underprivileged countries. On 31 March 2001 President Hinckley announced the creation of the worldwide Perpetual Education Fund to assist missionaries from areas of the world such as Asia, Africa, Mexico, Central America, South America and the Philippines, who often return to a life of poverty after Church service, lacking the resources to pay for an education.

President Hinckley made clear this was not a welfare effort, but an educational opportunity. He said, "Where there is widespread poverty among our people, we must do all we can to help them lift themselves, to establish their lives upon a foundation of self-reliance that can come of training."

During the 2002 Winter Olympics, President Hinckley welcomed the world to Salt Lake City. He personally met with political leaders such as President George Bush and participated in 13 interviews with major media from all over the world. Many remember Church leaders on the steps of the Church Administration Building as the torch was passed to President Hinckley and he invited the crowd to salute the Games' athletes and organizers, the state of Utah, the United States and the whole world as they joined in celebrations of excellence.

On June 23, 2004, President Hinckley was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civil award, by President George Bush. President Hinckley said: "I will be deeply honored to receive this prestigious award from the president of the United States. I am profoundly grateful. In a larger sense, it recognizes and honors the Church which has given me so many opportunities and whose interests I have tried to serve."

And serve he did into his late 90s with the same unselfish vigor he was characteristically known for. In a rare moment of personal introspection, President Hinckley talked about his health during the Church’s general conference in October 2006.

“The President of the Church belongs to the entire Church. His life is not his own. His mission is to serve. … The Lord has permitted me to live; I do not know for how long. But whatever the time, I shall continue to give my best to the task at hand.”

[Rachael]

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

#1 Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

#2 Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#3 Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#4 Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

#5 Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

Amonhi has his defenders here, I'm sure they don't want him to answer these questions and I'd be very surprised if he did. That would expose too much about himself which could lessen his influence with some on this forum--NOT his defenders....they most likely already know the answers to your questions.

I'll answer even tho I wasn't asked.
#1: Everyone is accountable to God. Cain's question was, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Yes, to some degree we are. No one is an island. But being accountable to a church? Isn't a church a church 'when two or three gathered in My [Christ's] name' the same thing? If so, yes. We are accountable. Are we accountable to a corporation? IDK that one. Are we accountable to JS? I say no. Are we accountable to JC? YES!

#2: Not active. Standing Ok. I voluntarily turned in my TR then stopped attending. I was sick of the manuals and wasn't gonna teach from the correlated material any longer.

#3 & 4: If cutting ties to the CoJCoLDS or any other church hinders a personal relationship with Christ, cut ties. If it helps, stay in the boat.

#5: No. Individuals are individuals. What helps one may hinder another.

You stopped Participating in temple worship and turned in your recommend because you were sick of the manuals and the correlation material? Wow.. I'm sure there is nothing more to this story. Right? #-o

Temple worship.... sitting there wondering how in the heck did Peter, James and John lay hands on Adam without having bodies. I mean that was the point of the translations of Moses and Elijah when they came to Jesus on the Mount of transfiguration.

Why do we put on fig leaves when Satan tells us to after God got rid of them in the creation account?

Why do we put up veils when the veil was rent when Christ was crucified?

What good is a bunch of tokens when Masons can do the same, and get past all these angelic gate keepers, when the scriptures state Jesus employs no servant there?

What more did I need?

[kennyhs]

(DBY, 86).

"No man gets power from God to raise disturbance in any Branch of the Church. Such power is obtained from an evil source (DBY, 72).

People do, however, leave this Church, but they leave it because they get into darkness, and the very day they conclude that there should be a democratic vote, or in other words, that we should have two candidates for the presiding Priesthood in the midst of the Latter-day Saints, they conclude to be apostates. There is no such thing as confusion, division, strife, animosity, hatred, malice, or two sides to the question in the house of God; there is but one side to the question there (DBY, 85).


Those who lose the Spirit are filled with darkness and confusion.

When men lose the spirit of the work in which we are engaged, they become infidel in their feelings. They say that they do not know whether the Bible is true, whether the Book of Mormon is true, nor about new revelations, nor whether there is a God or not. When they lose the spirit of this work, they lose the knowledge of the things of God in time and in eternity; all is lost to them (DBY, 83–84).

Men begin to apostatize by taking to themselves strength, by hearkening to the whisperings of the enemy who leads them astray little by little, until they gather to themselves that which they call the wisdom of man; then they begin to depart from God, and their minds become confused "(DBY, 84).

President Brigham Young

[Ezra]

Amonhi,

This seems like as good a place as any to bring this up, so here goes...

Here is one issue that I have with what you appear to be teaching or advocating. It seems to me that you believe that individuals are not accountable to each other and that they are only accountable to themselves. One reason why I feel this way is because you appear to emphasize the spiritual almost to the absolute exclusion of the physical. The encompassing feeling or sense that I get from your position, taking them on a whole, is that an individual can stand alone, without being accountable to others in any degree and that a physical church is not required or even that a physical church is an impediment to one's spiritual progression.

Are you currently an active and in good standing member of the "mainstream" Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate in any degree that people ought to cut their ties with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you advocate that individuals ought not to be a part of a physical institution/organization such as a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

Do you advocate that individuals do not have to be a part of a physical institution/organization such a church (be that any church, but including the LDS church)?

I'm curious to know how you respond to these questions and statement. Although there is nothing stopping you or any one of us from lying, you can at least be clear and on the record in this sphere (LDSFF) as to what your position is.

-Finrock

I'm not Amonhi, but I felt the need to respond to this.

At one point the church serves as a necessary crutch. there is nothing wrong with that, when we are lame, a crutch is a good thing.

At some point we no longer need a crutch. that isn;t to say that we no longer need the church, but if we continue to use it as a crutch at that point, it becomes a hindrance, not a help.

What purpose the church needs to serve when we no longer need it as a crutch, perhaps it is best to let each person figure out on their own.

I do feel that holding the church in veneration is almost as wrong and ignorant as holding the government in veneration. Like these fools piddling their drawers on social media over this QB that wouldn't stand for the national anthem.

I would say that the church then becomes a place to teach and mentor. Which just helps internalize and deepen ones on understandings as you try to teach those principles.

[Rachael]

(DBY, 86).

"No man gets power from God to raise disturbance in any Branch of the Church. Such power is obtained from an evil source (DBY, 72).

People do, however, leave this Church, but they leave it because they get into darkness, and the very day they conclude that there should be a democratic vote, or in other words, that we should have two candidates for the presiding Priesthood in the midst of the Latter-day Saints, they conclude to be apostates. There is no such thing as confusion, division, strife, animosity, hatred, malice, or two sides to the question in the house of God; there is but one side to the question there (DBY, 85).


Those who lose the Spirit are filled with darkness and confusion.

When men lose the spirit of the work in which we are engaged, they become infidel in their feelings. They say that they do not know whether the Bible is true, whether the Book of Mormon is true, nor about new revelations, nor whether there is a God or not. When they lose the spirit of this work, they lose the knowledge of the things of God in time and in eternity; all is lost to them (DBY, 83–84).

Men begin to apostatize by taking to themselves strength, by hearkening to the whisperings of the enemy who leads them astray little by little, until they gather to themselves that which they call the wisdom of man; then they begin to depart from God, and their minds become confused "(DBY, 84).

President Brigham Young

BY cared about common consent just long enough to empower himself I suppose...