Who has jumped off the Denver Snuffer train?

[AI2.0]

Then there is this:

Comforter Cover Thumb.jpg

A book written by a well know Brethernite who is currently anonymous, who will probably come out of the shadows in due time.
The book mirrors Dusty's experiences adding credence to Dusty's claims.

When if/he comes he does come out, will the rigid LDSFF members come out with their pitchforks ?

Happy hunting.

njb

PS: Lemuel that guy sounds creepy.

If he's anonymous, then how can you say he's a well known brethrenite?

[notjamesbond003.5]

Erm: cos I know of his identity ?

Njb

[TrueIntent]

Well most know the difference between daydreaming and a Heavenly Encounter.

He says that there is no mistakening the event.
The way he explains it, it seems that your Spirit is teleporting outta this sphere into a celestial one and it's more real than here on earth etc.

Njb

There was a part where he says its like recalling a movie......I also have understood that the experience is much more "tangible" than what I was understanding. I'm interested in understanding the minds eye more. I guess the only way to know is keep trying it myself ;)

[Jesef]

njb, do you happen to know him well enough to know why he is hiding his true identity? Do you suspect he will "unveil" himself at some point?

[notjamesbond003.5]

No.
Yes.

Njb

[rewcox]

njb, do you happen to know him well enough to know why he is hiding his true identity? Do you suspect he will "unveil" himself at some point?

Good essay to read.

"I said, ‘the keys of the kingdom are right here with the church.’”

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/a-resp ... r-reality/

[rewcox]

Prophecy Supports that the Restored Church Will Continue to the Millennium

If the scriptures do not prophesy of a later apostasy, what do they predict? Multiple revelations and statements from Joseph Smith support that the church he established will persist to the millennium. One of the plainest was uttered in October of 1831 in Hiram, Ohio: “The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth (D&C 65:2).” Snuffer’s version is apparently that the gospel would not roll forth in 1831 but would wobble forth through a “long downward path” (p. 40) until after 2010 when a new visionary would arise to reset the gospel rolling.

[shadow]

Did I kill the thread with sound doctrine ?

Njb

Did you post any sound doctrine??

[rewcox]

If you want to read more: http://en.fairmormon.org/Category:Denver_Snuffer

Response to Nauvoo temple building speed criticism: http://en.fairmormon.org/Criticism_of_M ... ough_speed

[freedomforall]

Journeys Out Of The Body

[Jesef]

Very interesting stuff, guys. Has anyone else read the Anonymous "How to Have Your Second Comforter" book? (Available on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/How-Have-Your-Se ... nav-subnav)

I'm 56% of the way through it, and one thing that stuck out to me was the author's (and apparently his wife's) perspective that the path to return to the presence of the Lord is learning to obey the inner voice no matter what crazy stuff it tells you to, and that reality is very much an angelic/demonic struggle. He spends a lot of time discussing shielding and armor and protection and learning to identify all kinds of ways the Adversary and his hosts try to infiltrate our homes, families, and bodies, even using portals and devices, in order to tempt, gain influence or control, and even hurt/harm us spiritually and physically. It's a very fear-driven paradigm - combatted by faith, which can always prevail. I have to admit, it's not very palatable to me, although I do not doubt the author's sincerity or honesty (that things are, to them, really, as they perceive them to be).

I'll write a more thorough review with comments when I'm finished - these are just a few mid-book impressions. Many of the author's spiritual experiences (aside from all the demonic spiritual warfare stuff) with the Spirit and Angels, etc., are similar to my own, to a very high degree of corroboration. I'm not tossing anything out, all things considered, either.

[notjamesbond003.5]

Very interesting stuff, guys. Has anyone else read the Anonymous "How to Have Your Second Comforter" book? (Available on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/How-Have-Your-Se ... nav-subnav)

I'm 56% of the way through it, and one thing that stuck out to me was the author's (and apparently his wife's) perspective that the path to return to the presence of the Lord is learning to obey the inner voice no matter what crazy stuff it tells you to, and that reality is very much an angelic/demonic struggle. He spends a lot of time discussing shielding and armor and protection and learning to identify all kinds of ways the Adversary and his hosts try to infiltrate our homes, families, and bodies, even using portals and devices, in order to tempt, gain influence or control, and even hurt/harm us spiritually and physically. It's a very fear-driven paradigm - combatted by faith, which can always prevail. I have to admit, it's not very palatable to me, although I do not doubt the author's sincerity or honesty (that things are, to them, really, as they perceive them to be).

I'll write a more thorough review with comments when I'm finished - these are just a few mid-book impressions. Many of the author's spiritual experiences (aside from all the demonic spiritual warfare stuff) with the Spirit and Angels, etc., are similar to my own, to a very high degree of corroboration. I'm not tossing anything out, all things considered, either.

Reviews on Amazon thus far:

5.0 out of 5 Stars

So you agree with Author as his path was similar to your's but it's not that palatable to you.
Interesting: a bit of a contradiction.



njb

[Jesef]

Yeah, that didn't make much sense, now that I read it, huh? What I meant was I can't relate very well with all the spiritual warfare and demonic confrontation stuff the author emphasizes so much. All the other spiritual experiences and descriptions, very much so. But, like I said, that doesn't mean he's wrong. I just haven't had those experiences. They seem to me to be very attached to and driven by fear.

[notjamesbond003.5]

The more I read and listen to all of these 2nd Comforter experiences: The Lord tailors them as needed to the recepients. In His infinite wisdom deems what is necessary to the seeker.

Some have an outta body experience, some have Christ appear to them here in this sphere: all of these experiences fall under "Meeting The Second Comforter" . I've had a few Snufferites try to dissuade my thinking, didn't agree w them.

Njb

[Jesef]

I agree with you. I've met several people - non-Mormon, non-Snuffer, even non-Restoration - who have had similar experiences, in their own religious context - that seem to have very similar ultimate meanings. That's one reason Snuffer's recent "A Bigger Picture" post really struck me - I think he might be learning these more "universal" truths as well. God is truly over all, not just us few little folks who think/believe we are "chosen" or "special" (which I think is a mistake and probably pride that needs to be shed). Not believing that God is over all also seems to be a form of unbelief (not believing enough and/or believing falsely). Just some thoughts. I'm not dissing anyone's paradigm. I believe the Lord God Almighty can work through most, if not all, of them.

[Jonesy]

I'm about to start Ch. 11. I was going to read the whole thing and see if it would be palatable to my wife, but that was pretty evident early on that that's not going to happen. Bummer.

I can actually relate to the experiences of the darker side. Most of my experiences early on in my new journey were walk-throughs on the dark side. It is so true that anyone can have an experience with dark spirits. I saw them with my natural eyes, in my natural state. I also had what I believe now was spiritual protection and had no fear (I experienced first-hand how important that is). I had various experiences. They were countered with good experiences with the Spirit, though. I've had angelic experiences without seeing one, but I knew they were there. Just never got to that point. Unfortunately, I'm either hot or cold. My good run ran for nearly a year strong and slowly dwindled. I'm hoping this may unlock some keys for me, because I'm nearly at the bottom of the barrel again and have to start all over.

On another note, Denver Snuffer has not really called to my attention since his excommunication. Don't get me wrong, I actually really appreciate his works on defense of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith and various doctrinal principles, but his criticism is too much for me. I don't understand his calling-out some of the Brethren, then say that doctrine is what matters most, not people. Still comes across as bitter. He may say that he can't control the perception of the readers, but his bitterness seems to seep through IMO. I could be wrong. I say that the wise thing to do would be to let it alone and let things surface on its own, if that's the case. Finding tares among the wheat wouldn't break me or alarm me, I don't think. It happens. We just have to learn to recognize truth.

Anyways, interesting to see where this goes.

[freedomforall]

Astral Projection, OOBE. Is it real or nothing more than body bubbles in the brain? Is there a connection with it and visitations?

Journeys Out Of The Body

[Jonesy]

Astral Projection, OOBE. Is it real or nothing more than body bubbles in the brain? Is there a connection with it and visitations?

Journeys Out Of The Body

My experience has been to stay away from astral projections.

I had an experience about 4 years ago. It was weird and I didn't know exactly what happened. In looking around the Internet, I found somebody that had an experience very similar to mine. His just went further. I now believe what I experienced then was the prelude to an astral projection. There's a story behind this. I'll just say a few things about it, though. At the time, I was strictly forbidden various times by the Spirit to do it and to stay away from it. I was very curious but I obeyed. I'm under the understanding that anyone can do this if they're interested enough to do it. Even folks of all spiritual ranges. That's what makes it dangerous, in my opinion. It allows one to explore the spirit world, or whatever it is, without being prepared in any degree spiritually. It's much more advantageous to be experienced in this world and actually live in obedience to God. In this way, God is the one setting the pace and grants experiences that you are ready for and able to spiritually bear with the appropriate understanding and proper guidance.

[Jesef]

If we truly are not ready for something (not just being lazy or afraid), then we should probably shy away from it. The Spirit could probably teach us how to get ready, if we wanted to become prepared. Or maybe we as an individual don't desire or need such experiences in this life - depends on where we are personally. But when all the prophets spoke about being "whether in or out of the body they could not tell" or they were "caught up" or "caught away" or they were "in the Spirit", etc., I'm pretty sure it was this type of experience, what others, outside of Mormon circles, call "astral projection."

We shouldn't venture where our soul does not feel safe or right or ready, without the Spirit guiding and teaching us. I would just encourage or suggest that we don't go thinking that because it isn't right for us (or we are not ready for it, etc.), it must not be right for anyone or everyone else (at any time). That type of extrapolation is what is getting most people on these forums into trouble - they are comparing notes, but from different classes/grades, and then judging one another on their notes, as if they are universally applicable. That's just a general observation.

[Jonesy]

Thank you for that. I can only speak from my own experiences. Any time I experienced this, it was definitely not of God. But I realize that usually to get the good experiences, you have to get through the bad (first vision). At that time I wasn't ready, apparently. However, I am still under the impression that an astral projection is more of a satanic means into a spirit-world-type experience. I think, and am still under the impression, that God uses a different means to produce those spiritual experiences. I don't know how, that's just my experience and the limit of my understanding. And you're right that I shouldn't say an astral projection may not be right for another. I second that.

Maybe you can enlighten my understanding on an astral projection that has been of God, and the differences between one that is not of God. I have yet to hear of an astral projection that was of God (I'm limited to the Internet, and the scriptures don't match my experience). I really think there are two different types of experiences. I hope that when people of different levels see that I'm still in the dark about something I don't understand that they would help me. I'm definitely open to learning aright, and I'm definitely okay with looking like a fool.

[Jonesy]

So, I've been thinking on this a little more. I was reading about my astral projection experience and also a vision I had a while back in my journal. To me, they were two completely different experiences and came about in two completely different ways. I think God's ways are by visions as the scriptures speak of. I still think astral projections are the counterfeit and demonic versions of that, but I'll concede that I just don't know and that I could definitely be wrong. Maybe I just haven't had a good astral projection experience yet.

Update:

I just came across the scripture today in D&C 137 where Joseph says he couldn't tell "whether in the body or out". It is related as a vision.

http://historyofthesaints.org/january-2 ... f-visions/

I also noted that that phrase in context seems to signify that these experiences happen where they are translated in spirit with a connecting vision. It's really interesting, but whatever experience one has that is of God really doesn't matter to me (as long as it's of God). I hope to learn for myself one day on these mysteries. But from that book, I agree with what he is saying about visions.

[inquirringmind]

I was, and still am, open to Denver Snuffer's claims and his message possibly being true ( and I've prayed that Baghdad not fall because he said The God of Heaven told him we should all pray about that ), but I had a bad personal experience on a Mormon remnant discussion board.

As far as jumping off the Snuffer ban wagon, I feel more like I've been thrown off and kicked in the face.

[e-eye2.0]

Satan doesn't support his people in the end. Consider yourself lucky if you were kicked off the train.

following the true and living prophets will not keep you from trials but at least it will keep the spirit with you.

[Contemplator]

Inquirringmind,

I feel so sad for you as I read this post. I want to suggest an idea to you. Denver Snuffer is a dedicated student of the gospel and of church history. Within his voluminous writings are some good ideas and some ideas that I differ with. To me, the greatest value of his writing is the message that the heavens are open and that we can approach God through Jesus Christ.

When it comes down to it, though, the experiences of others are only relevant in that they are an invitation to seek God, through Christ, for ourselves. Self worth comes through experiencing God's love and forgiveness. Don't worry about what these three people think about you, or any other topic. I would suggest that you prayerfully ask the following questions, while reading and pondering the scriptures:

1. God, are you there?
2. Is Jesus my Savior? Are my sins forgiven?
3. Have I received the Holy Ghost? If not, will you help me to receive it?

Don't impose any particular form of response on God. Rather, be open and accepting of how He may respond. He loves you and if you approach Him in sincerity, He will answer.

May you enjoy the peace that comes through Christ!

[Jesef]

Inquirringmind, I'm sorry to hear about your troubled mind and heart. I'm also sorry you've felt mistreated or abandoned or misjudged.

Contemplator's suggestions are good ones. I would just add, out of friendliness and brotherhood, that you're probably better off not connecting with or corresponding with anyone who causes you to feel damned or rejected. That is not of God (FOR SURE!). You don't need anyone in your life like that and you certainly don't need to become spiritually dependent on anyone else. Don't accept their condemnation or judgment. They have no right. They do not represent God and have no authority over you, no matter what their claims.

Here's the truth, and if you even just find a way to quietly meditate and look inside your heart, this will be confirmed to you in a way that is as sure as you know you are sentient, that you know and are conscious that you are a being: you are of God, the Source and Creator of All, the Almighty, the Divine Light of the Universe, the Eternal Father & Mother in Heaven; you are literally Their spirit child, a spark of the Divine, the Supreme Intelligence/Consciousness of this Universe; as such, you are of Eternal worth and value. Your struggles in this life, though painful, even excruciating, do not diminish this great worth of your soul. Hang in there! Seek and find strength in God and all your eternal family, many beloved souls on the other side, who love and watch over you. Life is hard, that's for sure, but I'm confident you can find strength, peace, love, and joy, it's all their within you, your Divine heritage, the light of Christ/God, and the love of Christ/God. Believe that. Assume that. Pretend it at first if you have to. Eventually, if you hold on to that, it will spring forth in your heart and fill your mind, helping you drive out these dark thoughts and feelings.

If you need to seek professional or competent help, please do so. It sounds like you are really struggling with loneliness. May you be blessed.