Don't Trust in the Arm of Flesh

[brlenox]

For those that didn't catch it, those aren't my own words. I borrowed every single statement from a talk by Ezra Taft Benson "Be Not Deceived".

No doubt some of you were thinking "BrianM is on the slippery slope to apostasy!" simply for stating truth. Maybe YOU weren't thinking that but some of you have been labeling others apostate for saying the same things. tisk tisk.

While it is truth that you have posted, it is only such as long as we all recognize is is only a small portion of a recognized doctrine concerning following the prophet. As some have stated Ezra Taft Benson also embraced both sides of the equation. So if we really wanted to present a full and comprehensive treatment of President Bensons then I suggest that you provide us your insight from the other perspective of the issue as President Benson delivered that message.


Then we can get back to you on that slippery slope thing... =:)

[Amonhi]

It is from within the Church that the greatest hindrance comes.

Six of the original Twelve Apostles selected by Joseph Smith were excommunicated. The Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon left the Church. Three of Joseph Smith’s Counselors fell - one even helped plot his death.

A natural question that might arise would be, that if the Lord knew in advance that these men would fall, as he undoubtedly did, why did he have his Prophet call them to such high office? The answer is: to fill the Lord’s purposes. For even the Master followed the will the will of the Father by selecting Judas.

Perhaps it is His own design that faults and weaknesses should appear in high places in order that His Saints may learn to trust in Him and not in any man or men.

And this would parallel Lehi’s warning; put not your “. . . trust in the arm of flesh. . . .” (2 Nephi 4:34.)

What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire of themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders.

Ok, I would like a consistency check... Here you are agreeing with a prophet, E.T.Benson.

Some here agree with only those statements by prophets which can can to the best of their ability determine to be true, wise and presently applicable. They do not agree with everything a prophet says and they live consistently with their view points.

Others, seem to preach "follow the prophets" agree with those statements which encourage following prophets but reject those statements which do not. In essence, they seem to be cherry picking their doctrines and statements as much as the first group.

My wife read through the entire gospel link library and we discussed every instance in which prophets would contradict and disagree. Then we realized that they can't both be right and you can't follow all of them so you have to pick and chose to the best of your ability using the insight and revelation you have been given.

I think everyone knows that the prophets contradict and so we come up with silly rules like, "Follow the Current prophet" as opposed to the previous prophets when they contradict. And that might make more sense in some instances when considering that we have technologies and situations today that we didn't have 2000 or 200 years ago. But when you see contradictions in doctrines and those doctrines are declared to essential or saving/exalting doctrines... it doesn't fly.

Anyway, thanks for your post! Great way to present it. I actually thought it was multiple talks you were quoting. Perhaps multiple quotes from other authors in a single talk...

Peace,
Amonhi

[Thinker]

Nobody’s perfect so everyone will let themselves & others down at some point. Even people who seem to have it all together - who knows what certain trying circumstances would bring out? It’s made me feel less alone realizing even Christ was betrayed by his friends. Previously I’ve leaned on people only to “fall.” Maybe it’s like a beautiful fake chair made of cardboard - tempting to sit on - it looks like it could hold you, but it won’t, though it could be enjoyable as decoration. Or maybe it’s like sugar - some is good but it can also harm & shouldn’t be considered the basis of a diet.

The greatest commandments are to love God, love others & love ourselves. I believe this to ideally be - in harmony, but with our trust in, & “leaning on” God, not in others. This is the way.

[Cruiserdude]

I prefer to put my trust in the arms of logic. Faith is a concept I tried in Los vague once and it cost me dearly.

how do they come up with this stuff?

[woodro76]

I'll just leave this here for all to digest. When false teachers teach their views, even well meaning, they can and will lead people into apostasy because their faith is already on shaky ground. I.e. When you put your faith in a member who doesn't have authority yet ignore the prophets and apostles who do, you are already on shaky ground and already in a state of apostasy under the influence of Satan. Priestcraft damages the faith of those who know Christ as he is, and divides the membership of his church, leading the innocent to have lack of faith in the power of the priesthood. I think it is pretty clear that we have been given The truth (The Book of Mormon), a prophet (Joseph Smith Jr and his successors) as guardians of the truth and his church to learn and teach one another the truth of the gospel. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is to help the Lord's children live the Celestial Law in preparation for the Lord's millennial reign in the Church of the Lamb of God. The belief that the brethren or the church has apostatized is false and is a distraction of the Satan himself.

https://rsc.byu.edu/shedding-light-new- ... ook-mormon

https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-9-no-3-2008/dangers-priestcraft

You have the agency to believe and put faith in what you will, yet if false it is unto your own determent to do so. Therefore, if we follow the truth given to us by the Book of Mormon by reading, pondering and praying about what we read, the Holy Ghost will confirm the truth to us. The same principle applies to doctrine taught by the brethren. Anything that is unknown or not revealed to a prophet is speculative at best and can lead to priestcraft and apostasy.

[nightlight]

I'll just leave this here for all to digest. When false teachers teach their views, even well meaning, they can and will lead people into apostasy because their faith is already on shaky ground. I.e. When you put your faith in a member who doesn't have authority yet ignore the prophets and apostles who do, you are already on shaky ground and already in a state of apostasy under the influence of Satan. Priestcraft damages the faith of those who know Christ as he is, and divides the membership of his church, leading the innocent to have lack of faith in the power of the priesthood. I think it is pretty clear that we have been given The truth (The Book of Mormon), a prophet (Joseph Smith Jr and his successors) as guardians of the truth and his church to learn and teach one another the truth of the gospel. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is to help the Lord's children live the Celestial Law in preparation for the Lord's millennial reign in the Church of the Lamb of God. The belief that the brethren or the church has apostatized is false and is a distraction of the Satan himself.

https://rsc.byu.edu/shedding-light-new- ... ook-mormon

https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-9-no-3-2008/dangers-priestcraft

You have the agency to believe and put faith in what you will, yet if false it is unto your own determent to do so. Therefore, if we follow the truth given to us by the Book of Mormon by reading, pondering and praying about what we read, the Holy Ghost will confirm the truth to us. The same principle applies to doctrine taught by the brethren. Anything that is unknown or not revealed to a prophet is speculative at best and can lead to priestcraft and apostasy.

Stop spamming the same post.

[woodro76]

I'll just leave this here for all to digest. When false teachers teach their views, even well meaning, they can and will lead people into apostasy because their faith is already on shaky ground. I.e. When you put your faith in a member who doesn't have authority yet ignore the prophets and apostles who do, you are already on shaky ground and already in a state of apostasy under the influence of Satan. Priestcraft damages the faith of those who know Christ as he is, and divides the membership of his church, leading the innocent to have lack of faith in the power of the priesthood. I think it is pretty clear that we have been given The truth (The Book of Mormon), a prophet (Joseph Smith Jr and his successors) as guardians of the truth and his church to learn and teach one another the truth of the gospel. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is to help the Lord's children live the Celestial Law in preparation for the Lord's millennial reign in the Church of the Lamb of God. The belief that the brethren or the church has apostatized is false and is a distraction of the Satan himself.

https://rsc.byu.edu/shedding-light-new- ... ook-mormon

https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-9-no-3-2008/dangers-priestcraft

You have the agency to believe and put faith in what you will, yet if false it is unto your own determent to do so. Therefore, if we follow the truth given to us by the Book of Mormon by reading, pondering and praying about what we read, the Holy Ghost will confirm the truth to us. The same principle applies to doctrine taught by the brethren. Anything that is unknown or not revealed to a prophet is speculative at best and can lead to priestcraft and apostasy.

Stop spamming the same post.

Your request has been noted, however, people need to hear this. If you disagree with it, it is on you.

[David13]

I'll just leave this here for all to digest. When false teachers teach their views, even well meaning, they can and will lead people into apostasy because their faith is already on shaky ground. I.e. When you put your faith in a member who doesn't have authority yet ignore the prophets and apostles who do, you are already on shaky ground and already in a state of apostasy under the influence of Satan. Priestcraft damages the faith of those who know Christ as he is, and divides the membership of his church, leading the innocent to have lack of faith in the power of the priesthood. I think it is pretty clear that we have been given The truth (The Book of Mormon), a prophet (Joseph Smith Jr and his successors) as guardians of the truth and his church to learn and teach one another the truth of the gospel. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is to help the Lord's children live the Celestial Law in preparation for the Lord's millennial reign in the Church of the Lamb of God. The belief that the brethren or the church has apostatized is false and is a distraction of the Satan himself.

https://rsc.byu.edu/shedding-light-new- ... ook-mormon

https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-9-no-3-2008/dangers-priestcraft

You have the agency to believe and put faith in what you will, yet if false it is unto your own determent to do so. Therefore, if we follow the truth given to us by the Book of Mormon by reading, pondering and praying about what we read, the Holy Ghost will confirm the truth to us. The same principle applies to doctrine taught by the brethren. Anything that is unknown or not revealed to a prophet is speculative at best and can lead to priestcraft and apostasy.

Stop spamming the same post.

Your request has been noted, however, people need to hear this. If you disagree with it, it is on you.

Here is this "on you" nonsense again. That doesn't mean anything.

This business of "it's on them" is meaningless.

It doesn't matter who something is "on".

A thing is either truth or not.

dc

[woodro76]

I'll just leave this here for all to digest. When false teachers teach their views, even well meaning, they can and will lead people into apostasy because their faith is already on shaky ground. I.e. When you put your faith in a member who doesn't have authority yet ignore the prophets and apostles who do, you are already on shaky ground and already in a state of apostasy under the influence of Satan. Priestcraft damages the faith of those who know Christ as he is, and divides the membership of his church, leading the innocent to have lack of faith in the power of the priesthood. I think it is pretty clear that we have been given The truth (The Book of Mormon), a prophet (Joseph Smith Jr and his successors) as guardians of the truth and his church to learn and teach one another the truth of the gospel. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is to help the Lord's children live the Celestial Law in preparation for the Lord's millennial reign in the Church of the Lamb of God. The belief that the brethren or the church has apostatized is false and is a distraction of the Satan himself.

https://rsc.byu.edu/shedding-light-new- ... ook-mormon

https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-9-no-3-2008/dangers-priestcraft

You have the agency to believe and put faith in what you will, yet if false it is unto your own determent to do so. Therefore, if we follow the truth given to us by the Book of Mormon by reading, pondering and praying about what we read, the Holy Ghost will confirm the truth to us. The same principle applies to doctrine taught by the brethren. Anything that is unknown or not revealed to a prophet is speculative at best and can lead to priestcraft and apostasy.

Stop spamming the same post.

Your request has been noted, however, people need to hear this. If you disagree with it, it is on you.

Here is this "on you" nonsense again. That doesn't mean anything.

This business of "it's on them" is meaningless.

It doesn't matter who something is "on".

A thing is either truth or not.

dc

Not so, if you know the truth and deny it, you will be fully accountable for your acceptance or denial. There is no gray area. You will reap the consequences. So those who peddle in priestcrafts, false teaching and/or apostasy should be concerned the most. It will be meaningless to those who deny the truth.

[David13]

Stop spamming the same post.

Your request has been noted, however, people need to hear this. If you disagree with it, it is on you.

Here is this "on you" nonsense again. That doesn't mean anything.

This business of "it's on them" is meaningless.

It doesn't matter who something is "on".

A thing is either truth or not.

dc

Not so, if you know the truth and deny it, you will be fully accountable for your acceptance or denial. There is no gray area. You will reap the consequences. So those who peddle in priestcrafts, false teaching and/or apostasy should be concerned the most. It will be meaningless to those who deny the truth.

And a truth does not have to be run by the lawyers and the pr department by the corporate execs first. And it doesn't have to be spoken by someone with official corporate approval to be true.
dc

[rivers]

Joseph said I'll give you a key that will never rust, if you follow the majority of the twelve you will never be led astray.

I don’t think Joseph actually said that. It might be good to check your source, as this guy did: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit ... be_a_rusty (not that reddit is a good source either, lol).
Joseph never said that the Twelve should lead the Church at all, let alone encouraging members to trust in “the arm of flesh” in such an arbitary manner. The sources we should trust are the Lord and the scriptures. Anything else that ANYONE else says, we should search the scriptures ourselves, and pray to the Lord about, in order to prove or disprove its veracity.

[gigarath24]

Thank you, for posting that, Brian!

I just have to wonder when we get started living as ZION. Everyone seems to be looking for someone else to tell us when.

Otherwise, we just kind of talk around the idea and make covenants in the temple promising to live the law of consecration.

Many don't live the law of consecration within their own sealings let alone anywhere else we are commanded to do so.

[darknesstolight]

Stop spamming the same post.

Your request has been noted, however, people need to hear this. If you disagree with it, it is on you.

Here is this "on you" nonsense again. That doesn't mean anything.

This business of "it's on them" is meaningless.

It doesn't matter who something is "on".

A thing is either truth or not.

dc

Not so, if you know the truth and deny it, you will be fully accountable for your acceptance or denial. There is no gray area. You will reap the consequences. So those who peddle in priestcrafts, false teaching and/or apostasy should be concerned the most. It will be meaningless to those who deny the truth.

Are you taking the position that your post is the same as all who read being exposed to THE TRUTH and if they reject what you are saying then they are now deny the truth?

...