I've finished the book now except for the Appendices. Overall I liked the first part (prior to the earthquake) the most. After the earthquake, I thought it was ok except for the Cavern part. The Cavern part really struck me for some reason.Legion wrote:Thank you for sharing that...I was particularly struck by the bolded comment.Gad wrote:I'm at 31%. So far I love it.
I think this part was very insightful. I also think it applies to almost any vision. There is just so layers that you can ponder on them for years.The last thing I want to mention that I learned from this experience is that anytime Christ descends and speaks to a mortal, it is so weighty with meaning that mere words cannot convey the fulness of the truths given. The message is layered. First are the words He speaks, and then there is a vastly larger body of truth you receive spiritually, layer upon layer, more truth than you can understand for years afterward. One small moment in the presence of the Savior can last for a lifetime. This is the reason the scriptures are so powerful, because they contain the words spoken by Christ, and this layered truth is still there, spiritually interwoven with those words. It takes a lifetime of spiritual growth and obedience to be able to receive the deeper layers. They are truly there, and they contain the great mysteries and greater truths He desires that we acquire and enjoy in our lifetime. Any circumstance we find ourselves in, the answers are given within the recorded experiences of people who spoke with the Savior.
This is the reason the scriptures are so powerful, because they contain the words spoken by Christ, and this layered truth is still there, spiritually interwoven with those words. It takes a lifetime of spiritual growth and obedience to be able to receive the deeper layers. They are truly there, and they contain the great mysteries and greater truths He desires that we acquire and enjoy in our lifetime. Any circumstance we find ourselves in, the answers are given within the recorded experiences of people who spoke with the Savior.
Pontius, John (2012-11-13). Visions of Glory: One Man's Astonishing Account of the Last Days (p. 65). Cedar Fort, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Those people that lived in a cavern hidden from the world. If you haven't read the book please let me know and I'll post a better description later when I have time.Etosha wrote:What is the cavern part about?
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Did you know that you can contact Spencer and ask him questions?
http://unblogmysoul.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I imagine that by now you all know that John Pontius died on Monday.
http://unblogmysoul.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I imagine that by now you all know that John Pontius died on Monday.
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Mine arrived 2 days ago from Amazon!
Can't put it down... love the part about the special Conference and The Lord working alongside them and then realizing it was him all along...
Can't put it down... love the part about the special Conference and The Lord working alongside them and then realizing it was him all along...
- gruden2.0
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
What Spencer doesn't say but it's pretty clear is that he is one of the 144,000. In his vision he led a small group up north to a mountain with a hidden colony of people - apparently one of the lost tribes but I don't believe he said which one(s). He said they lived in a city inside a cavern in a mountain and were led by a prophet. They spoke to them of the fulness of the gospel and temple blessings and led them out of their hidden enclave down to Zion. They were a pure but not advanced people who lived in a city lighted by stones similar to the stones the Jaredites had. They had the ability to carve and mold stone and wood through spiritual will/communication. For example they could shape a living tree into a table. Very interesting.Etosha wrote:What is the cavern part about?
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
It's hard to imagine the kinds of things we'll be able to do in the MIllenium - when you think of God's power and the things He can do anything is really possible. That does sound different but who am I to doubt it. I have a very open mind and try to imagine if this scenario is at all possible and yes it is so I will accept it if I have confirmation (after I read the book) - we can know the truth of all things through the Holy Ghost. From what you wrote I don't think that says he is one of the 144,000 but maybe there was more in the book that led you to that decision.
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Why is the name Spencer so often put in quotes, as in "Spencer"? Is it a pseudonym or something?
(I haven't read the book - I'm working on FTL right now.)
(I haven't read the book - I'm working on FTL right now.)
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Spencer is not his real name. He opted not to use his real name because he didnt want any "celebrity" attention. Can't really blame him there. I wouldn't want to become peoples oracle either.
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
The last thing I want to mention that I learned from this experience is that anytime Christ descends and speaks to a mortal, it is so weighty with meaning that mere words cannot convey the fulness of the truths given. The message is layered. First are the words He speaks, and then there is a vastly larger body of truth you receive spiritually, layer upon layer, more truth than you can understand for years afterward. One small moment in the presence of the Savior can last for a lifetime. This is the reason the scriptures are so powerful, because they contain the words spoken by Christ, and this layered truth is still there, spiritually interwoven with those words. It takes a lifetime of spiritual growth and obedience to be able to receive the deeper layers. They are truly there, and they contain the great mysteries and greater truths He desires that we acquire and enjoy in our lifetime. Any circumstance we find ourselves in, the answers are given within the recorded experiences of people who spoke with the Savior.
This is the reason the scriptures are so powerful, because they contain the words spoken by Christ, and this layered truth is still there, spiritually interwoven with those words. It takes a lifetime of spiritual growth and obedience to be able to receive the deeper layers. They are truly there, and they contain the great mysteries and greater truths He desires that we acquire and enjoy in our lifetime. Any circumstance we find ourselves in, the answers are given within the recorded experiences of people who spoke with the Savior.
Pontius, John (2012-11-13). Visions of Glory: One Man's Astonishing Account of the Last Days (p. 65). Cedar Fort, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
Thank you for sharing that...I was particularly struck by the bolded comment.[/quote]
I've finished the book now except for the Appendices. Overall I liked the first part (prior to the earthquake) the most. After the earthquake, I thought it was ok except for the Cavern part. The Cavern part really struck me for some reason.[/quote]
The cavern part was the only part that got me, too..... I am still digesting that one....
- FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
The cavern part has added to and fueled the most amazing unveiling of understanding for me - I'm hoping to get some things posted about this in the future!
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Yeah, I was really surprised by my response to the Cavern. I wish I could learn more about that and those people... It is something that I will be on the lookout for in the future.
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
One of the differences between Spencer and Joseph's physical state after seeing the Savior may have to do with this: "Spencer" saw the Savior in his spirit body (he had left his body) while Joseph saw the Lord in a transfigured state. (I imagine his body had to recover once the transfiguration was gone). This what I am understanding.Stella Solaris wrote:I have a question about something Spencer says at the bottom of page 60. He describes how he physically felt after meeting with the Savior, and says he was rejuvinated, full of energy, not tired at all the next day, even though he'd been up all night and had gotten no sleep. This is the complete opposite of the way Joseph Smith and other prophets describe their physical status after their first few intense spiritual manifestations (using such terms as drained, tired, weak, etc... Joseph commented on this aspect quite a bit throughout his life, in relation to him and others). I wonder why the polar opposite physical results after essentially the same spiritual experience?
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
I will look forward to your comments. ThanksJulesGP wrote:The cavern part has added to and fueled the most amazing unveiling of understanding for me - I'm hoping to get some things posted about this in the future!
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
I just started reading. I was floored about the learning as a spirit. I am trying not to be envious of someone who died. Patience.
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
This is what I keep hearing from people, but Spencer himself says this about it - fully admitting HE doesn't even know if he had the experience in the spirit or in the flesh -steph1815 wrote:One of the differences between Spencer and Joseph's physical state after seeing the Savior may have to do with this: "Spencer" saw the Savior in his spirit body (he had left his body He had? Where does he say that? ) while Joseph saw the Lord in a transfigured state. (I imagine his body had to recover once the transfiguration was gone). This what I am understanding.Stella Solaris wrote:I have a question about something Spencer says at the bottom of page 60. He describes how he physically felt after meeting with the Savior, and says he was rejuvinated, full of energy, not tired at all the next day, even though he'd been up all night and had gotten no sleep. This is the complete opposite of the way Joseph Smith and other prophets describe their physical status after their first few intense spiritual manifestations (using such terms as drained, tired, weak, etc... Joseph commented on this aspect quite a bit throughout his life, in relation to him and others). I wonder why the polar opposite physical results after essentially the same spiritual experience?
Spencer, page 57 wrote:"The following vision is the first one I experienced without having to die. I was sleeping, but it was not a dream. I was not "seeing" it, but rather was present in the vision, experiencing it with my five senses. The phrase Paul used to explain such an experience was "Whether in the body, or out of the body, I know not." It was exactly that real to me, and that difficult to tell if I was once again out of my body or experiencing it IN THE FLESH."
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
That part really started me thinking also. I will be very interested to hear your thoughts when you are ready to share!JulesGP wrote:The cavern part has added to and fueled the most amazing unveiling of understanding for me - I'm hoping to get some things posted about this in the future!
- swiftbrook
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Just saw this book is on Kindle now! I ordered the book a few weeks ago from Amazon but it has been out of stock this whole time and I haven't received it. When I ordered it, I did not see a Kindle edition. Whooo! Just canceled the book order and am downloading it to my Kindle. This will be a fun evening
- BringerOfJoy
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Well, I don't know if FUN is the right word; but it will certainly be interesting.swiftbrook wrote:Just saw this book is on Kindle now! I ordered the book a few weeks ago from Amazon but it has been out of stock this whole time and I haven't received it. When I ordered it, I did not see a Kindle edition. Whooo! Just canceled the book order and am downloading it to my Kindle. This will be a fun evening
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- swiftbrook
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Oh, please do share!JulesGP wrote:The cavern part has added to and fueled the most amazing unveiling of understanding for me - I'm hoping to get some things posted about this in the future!
- swiftbrook
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
I read it in 24 hours. Very interesting indeed. There were parts with the exact wording found in my patriarchal blessing. Also many things that my spirit whispered and confirmed I knew or would do or would be. Really good for my "motivation" to keep seeking diligently. The book really made me want to seek my own visions through obedience and increased faith.
Something probably obvious to others but that really struck me is how when you obtain a gift, you don't automatically have the full measure of it. You have to work at it and hone it and it takes much time and diligence. That was revealing to me -- especially in light of translation, and then I thought of my gift of the Holy Ghost and how I am still developing it.
His descriptions of the Church were interesting. It seemed that The Church was not just Telestial -- but morphed into Terrestial and through ecclesiastical positions was the governing force in Zion. Church authorities ordained members to their callings? I assumed angels would do that? Hmmm. Did anyone else sense that? The apostles were given preference too...they were translated first? The Lord and Joseph Smith were perfectly at ease with all the current Church leaders in the conference center at that time during the vision. Far different than Joseph's dream of coming back and not recognizing the Church he restored. Far different from my current belief that the Lord likely doesn't approve of everything the Church leaders do. (Obviously the vision is in the future so leaders could be different people than they are now...) And obviously the vision may not be literal.
I do wonder if the cavern was real or metaphorical, but it seems that it must be real because of the angel of the same ethnicity who came to him prior. Yeah? I love hearing about other groups of people, unknown to us, who follow the Lord, have been visited by Him, have prophets we don't know at all, and have their own scriptures. It just rings true to me.
So many wondrous things to look forward to. Now, how to prepare for the cleansings? Every since "Triump of Zion" I've had a goal to be translated asap. Not giving up on that.
By the way, I keep having the same dream. My family and I (my parents and siblings and kids so about 40+ people) are in a large house. It seems to be my parent's house. Everyone is having a good time. I go outside and see everything on fire and coming close. I race inside and start preparing provisions so we can leave and MOVE fast. I tell everyone, I rush around, I'm getting supplies so we can travel. I know it is the start of a very long and difficult journey. My kids are with me but my husband NEVER is. It's all on me. I'm not overly stressed and seem to have known this was coming. And NONE of my family cares! They're all hanging out and talking. I'm telling them the fire is getting closer, we must get supplies and leave now! No one believes they are in danger. In one of the dreams the fire comes into the house and starts burning the kitchen cupboards. My dad, the most reluctant, finally agrees there might be some danger creeping in.
At first I thought the fire was just a sign of the last days cleansings. Then I thought it was a sign of the earth being destroyed by fire and we needed to prepare ourselves spiritually and come to Christ. Now, I'm just not sure! Will be seeking the interpretation. So far my dreams of the last days are as close as I've gotten to heavenly contact and visions. I am really in the mood to petition the Lord to change that. So much to learn. Wish I could move faster.
Something probably obvious to others but that really struck me is how when you obtain a gift, you don't automatically have the full measure of it. You have to work at it and hone it and it takes much time and diligence. That was revealing to me -- especially in light of translation, and then I thought of my gift of the Holy Ghost and how I am still developing it.
His descriptions of the Church were interesting. It seemed that The Church was not just Telestial -- but morphed into Terrestial and through ecclesiastical positions was the governing force in Zion. Church authorities ordained members to their callings? I assumed angels would do that? Hmmm. Did anyone else sense that? The apostles were given preference too...they were translated first? The Lord and Joseph Smith were perfectly at ease with all the current Church leaders in the conference center at that time during the vision. Far different than Joseph's dream of coming back and not recognizing the Church he restored. Far different from my current belief that the Lord likely doesn't approve of everything the Church leaders do. (Obviously the vision is in the future so leaders could be different people than they are now...) And obviously the vision may not be literal.
I do wonder if the cavern was real or metaphorical, but it seems that it must be real because of the angel of the same ethnicity who came to him prior. Yeah? I love hearing about other groups of people, unknown to us, who follow the Lord, have been visited by Him, have prophets we don't know at all, and have their own scriptures. It just rings true to me.
So many wondrous things to look forward to. Now, how to prepare for the cleansings? Every since "Triump of Zion" I've had a goal to be translated asap. Not giving up on that.
By the way, I keep having the same dream. My family and I (my parents and siblings and kids so about 40+ people) are in a large house. It seems to be my parent's house. Everyone is having a good time. I go outside and see everything on fire and coming close. I race inside and start preparing provisions so we can leave and MOVE fast. I tell everyone, I rush around, I'm getting supplies so we can travel. I know it is the start of a very long and difficult journey. My kids are with me but my husband NEVER is. It's all on me. I'm not overly stressed and seem to have known this was coming. And NONE of my family cares! They're all hanging out and talking. I'm telling them the fire is getting closer, we must get supplies and leave now! No one believes they are in danger. In one of the dreams the fire comes into the house and starts burning the kitchen cupboards. My dad, the most reluctant, finally agrees there might be some danger creeping in.
At first I thought the fire was just a sign of the last days cleansings. Then I thought it was a sign of the earth being destroyed by fire and we needed to prepare ourselves spiritually and come to Christ. Now, I'm just not sure! Will be seeking the interpretation. So far my dreams of the last days are as close as I've gotten to heavenly contact and visions. I am really in the mood to petition the Lord to change that. So much to learn. Wish I could move faster.
- FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
I hope we don't derail, but a couple of things came to mind when I read this. You've posted before (if I'm remembering correctly), that you have tried to talk with your family about the fullness of the Gospel, and topics that are "deeper doctrine" so to speak. They see you teaching these things and as you (inside) are screaming with hope that they will accept your messages before it's too late, they brush them off as if they are silly or insignificant. Regarding your husband; do you and he have the same understanding about the Gospel and the fullness and C&E and such? (Or are you feeling like you are leading spiritually in the relationship?)swiftbrook wrote:By the way, I keep having the same dream. My family and I (my parents and siblings and kids so about 40+ people) are in a large house. It seems to be my parent's house. Everyone is having a good time. I go outside and see everything on fire and coming close. I race inside and start preparing provisions so we can leave and MOVE fast. I tell everyone, I rush around, I'm getting supplies so we can travel. I know it is the start of a very long and difficult journey. My kids are with me but my husband NEVER is. It's all on me. I'm not overly stressed and seem to have known this was coming. And NONE of my family cares! They're all hanging out and talking. I'm telling them the fire is getting closer, we must get supplies and leave now! No one believes they are in danger. In one of the dreams the fire comes into the house and starts burning the kitchen cupboards. My dad, the most reluctant, finally agrees there might be some danger creeping in.
At first I thought the fire was just a sign of the last days cleansings. Then I thought it was a sign of the earth being destroyed by fire and we needed to prepare ourselves spiritually and come to Christ. Now, I'm just not sure! Will be seeking the interpretation. So far my dreams of the last days are as close as I've gotten to heavenly contact and visions. I am really in the mood to petition the Lord to change that. So much to learn. Wish I could move faster.
- swiftbrook
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius
Jules - true on all accounts! My fam rejects seeking the fullness and I am leading my husband spiritually right now. Dream solved.