Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Etosha
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Line upon Line Azriel - when teaching little children I think it is harder for them to grasp following the Holy Spirit and easier for them to grasp Follow the Prophet - they can see him and know who he is. Line upon Line.

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Sariel
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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I didn't mean to move away from the discussion of the book. Also I didn't realize this wasn't in the "greater things" section where I would normally comment about this type of thing. Carry on! YMWHISTLE

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Gad wrote: To my neighbors and coworkers of other faiths I discuss the truths restored by Joseph and preserved by the institution.
But Joseph Smith was just a man. How do you determine when listening to man is trusting in the arm of flesh and when it is not.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Azriel wrote:
Gad wrote:Is it just me, but does our fascination with hierarchy and deference to those in the chief seats strike anyone else as silly? Christ washes the apostles feet and tells them that the greatest among them is the best servant. We flip that around. I dunno... maybe it is cause it is so late here, but right now it is really striking me as foolish and vain.
Yes it is silly. At church I hear more about following the prophet or "the brethren" than I do about following Christ. Even in my primary lesson manual many suggested or possible correct answers are "follow the prophet". In many lessons scriptures are quoted to create the opportunity to say "follow the prophet" when it really has nothing to do with the lesson. You would think the prophet was the highest authority. Maybe this isn't exactly what you are talking about, but it reminded me of this.
The brethren are telling me all the time to follow the savior, so following the brethren isn't any different than following the savior. Anyone who isn't following the savior isn't following the brethren.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Seek the Truth wrote:
Gad wrote: To my neighbors and coworkers of other faiths I discuss the truths restored by Joseph and preserved by the institution.
But Joseph Smith was just a man. How do you determine when listening to man is trusting in the arm of flesh and when it is not.

By receiving a witness through the spirit. When any man speaks words of Christ it is listening to Christ himself. When any man speaks from his own mind it is listening to man.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Seek the Truth wrote:
Azriel wrote:
Gad wrote:Is it just me, but does our fascination with hierarchy and deference to those in the chief seats strike anyone else as silly? Christ washes the apostles feet and tells them that the greatest among them is the best servant. We flip that around. I dunno... maybe it is cause it is so late here, but right now it is really striking me as foolish and vain.
Yes it is silly. At church I hear more about following the prophet or "the brethren" than I do about following Christ. Even in my primary lesson manual many suggested or possible correct answers are "follow the prophet". In many lessons scriptures are quoted to create the opportunity to say "follow the prophet" when it really has nothing to do with the lesson. You would think the prophet was the highest authority. Maybe this isn't exactly what you are talking about, but it reminded me of this.
The brethren are telling me all the time to follow the savior, so following the brethren isn't any different than following the savior. Anyone who isn't following the savior isn't following the brethren.
The problem is that the two do not always go together. A person can follow Christ without even knowing who Joseph Smith is for instance. Do you think that person is not really a follower of Christ just because they don't even know who Joseph is? I don't think so. The Prophets are simply there to aid us in our journey and to help point us to Christ but one CAN find Christ without even knowing of a prophets existence. There are MANY, MANY prophets we do not even know of yet. Does that mean we do not follow Christ since we have not learned about them yet?

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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AshleyB wrote:
Seek the Truth wrote: The brethren are telling me all the time to follow the savior, so following the brethren isn't any different than following the savior. Anyone who isn't following the savior isn't following the brethren.
The problem is that the two do not always go together. A person can follow Christ without even knowing who Joseph Smith is for instance. Do you think that person is not really a follower of Christ just because they don't even know who Joseph is? I don't think so. The Prophets are simply there to aid us in our journey and to help point us to Christ but one CAN find Christ without even knowing of a prophets existence. There are MANY, MANY prophets we do not even know of yet. Does that mean we do not follow Christ since we have not learned about them yet?
:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

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Etosha
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Just finished the book - WOW! I have read similar accounts from other people dreams and visions over the years of the same general things - flooding of the SLC from the underground river and beyond, earthquake, and man made virus in the SLC area, martial law, the FEMA camps turning into concentration like camps later on. The only reference as to when these things start (earthquake) was that he saw makes of cars he hadn't seen before - which could be any new year as the new models come out. A very inspiring book - definately has made me realize I need to take a few steps up the ladder NOW! I think this 2013 year we are really going to see things gearing up - more natural disasters, food prices starting to go sky high. I had an order in for chia seed $150 a bag - it fell through because of drought or something I can't remember - then they found more but it was at $250 a bag - that fell through because of demand I think - they wanted a hundred more per bag so that about $350 per bag - that was in the last 6 months!

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kathyn
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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I have read "Visions of Glory" and I'm rereading it. If these visions are true, they are extremely powerful. I hope with everything in me that these visions are real because I feel so much hope when reading about them.

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Etosha
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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I am rereading it also. Some things could be a "type" of things to come, John Pontius says at the end of the book. He says even Spencer doesn't know for sure if some things are literal and some things are a type or metaphore - either way it is a very powerful book. My guess is the economy will collapse sometime in the next 4 years - then the earthquake. I wish I had more time than that but then onthe other hand - I wish I were younger and stronger as it would appear it will be very challenging to say the least for those that survive. I am reading parts of it to my daughters (17 and 18) but there are parts that I am skipping, even though they are old enough, my intent is not to scare them but to inspire them. This book does not scare me but most people I know don't even like to talk about the things to come.

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kathyn
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Etosha, thanks for your perspective. I agree, most people don't even want to think about the things to come. They want things to continue on the same way for the next 20 years. I am thinking we have much less time than that before things really spiral downward. I am probably not going to survive the tribulations that are coming. On the other hand, perhaps the Lord can use me somehow. (I am now a senior citizen and I'm not sure if I can count on being strong enough physically for what is to come. )

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Etosha
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Yes it could be sooner than 4 years - I was trying to be conservative LOL!

I think Spencer is now in his sixties now from what I can tell about the info he gave in the book so maybe it won't be as hard as I'm thinking and I agree that if the Lord can use us somehow it would be a great blessing to help in some small way. I have a friend who said if they use nuclear bombs she wants one to land on her house LOL! She doesn't want to live through it! I am just in awe that we get to live in these times - what an awsome thing it is to be born at this time and live in these times to see the prophecies being fulfilled.

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kathyn
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Etosha, I had an aunt who always used to say that when the hard times hit, she wanted to be the first to die. Well, she kind of got her wish. She did die. I can understand that attitude. It's much easier to die than to live, but if I can be of use to anyone...my family even, I want to live. I want to be of service. I serve as an ordinance worker in the temple and if I could continue to do that through the hard times ,it would be just wonderful.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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AshleyB wrote: The problem is that the two do not always go together.
Following a prophet will always lead you to the savior.
A person can follow Christ without even knowing who Joseph Smith is for instance.
Following Christ will lead you to desire baptism and other ordinances, which requires priesthood etc, which ultimately requires a prophet.
Do you think that person is not really a follower of Christ just because they don't even know who Joseph is? I don't think so.
I think not knowing all who have been prophets does not preclude one from following a living prophet or studying what the Lord has revealed through prophets that you do know about.

I desire revelation from any source. The bulk though seems to have come through prophets.
The Prophets are simply there to aid us in our journey and to help point us to Christ but one CAN find Christ without even knowing of a prophets existence.

And as I mentioned earlier Christ will lead you to a prophet eventually if it is possible.
There are MANY, MANY prophets we do not even know of yet. Does that mean we do not follow Christ since we have not learned about them yet?
No, I don't know why you would ask that.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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Yes, if you are a follower of Christ and listen to His voice and you are brought the knowledge and introduced to His servants than you will accept and receive them and listen them as they are moved upon by the Holy Spirit. But Christ's goal is not to have people become dependent upon men. Prophets point to Christ. THE END GOAL is to BECOME as the prophets have become or in other words to become a prophet in your own right. To be able to approach the throne of God for yourself. This does not mean you will have the stewardship of the whole church underneath you. But it means you will not need other men to teach you the steps anymore or to preach to you repentance. For you have reached the throne yourself and are redeemed from the Fall. That, is the entire purpose.

"Following a prophet will always lead you to the savior." I completely disagree with that. Seeking after the Savior will lead you to the Savior. Following a man will lead you right to the terrestrial Kingdom.

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.


I like the way Denver explains it in this blog post: http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2012/ ... hrist.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


1. The Gospel. You need to know that that term really means. If you do not, then you have not received it. You have claimed, like these others, to be "of Christ" without ever comprehending what His Gospel includes and does not include.

2. The "testimony of Jesus." Do you know what that term means? Do you imagine it is something you state or something you declare? Have you considered Jesus may have His own testimony which He will give to you? Have you imagined you can receive His testimony without ever entering His presence? What would Jesus' testimony necessarily include?

3. The failure to receive "the prophets." This is something different than merely following the prophet, because we saw in the earlier verses the hosts who claim to follow the prophets John, Moses, Isaiah, Enoch, etc. were damned. To receive is different than to follow. But implicit in the phrase, also, is the ability to actually discern when a prophet is sent.

-Denver Snuffer

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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AshleyB wrote:Yes, if you are a follower of Christ and listen to His voice and you are brought the knowledge and introduced to His servants than you will accept and receive them and listen them as they are moved upon by the Holy Spirit.
Then we agree.
But Christ's goal is not to have people become dependent upon men.
Who is claiming this?
Prophets point to Christ.
That's why I think it's a good idea to follow them.
THE END GOAL is to BECOME as the prophets have become or in other words to become a prophet in your own right. To be able to approach the throne of God for yourself.
Sure. This is in no way in conflict with following prophets. A number of prophets have taught that you should secure your calling and election, receive the second comforter, etc, I think people should follow these prophets.
This does not mean you will have the stewardship of the whole church underneath you.
I agree. Only one man has that charge.
But it means you will not need other men to teach you the steps anymore or to preach to you repentance.
I really disagree with this. Jesus taught to us in the words of other prophets many times. He praised the words of other prophets, the words of men. Great are the words of Isaiah, said Jesus. Jesus commended the words of men to us. He quoted other prophets quite a few times as we are all aware I'm sure.
For you have reached the throne yourself and are redeemed from the Fall. That, is the entire purpose.

"Following a prophet will always lead you to the savior." I completely disagree with that. Seeking after the Savior will lead you to the Savior. Following a man will lead you right to the terrestrial Kingdom.
I don't know of a prophet that doesn't teach you to come to Christ. Following those prophets leads you to Christ if you are unable to do it yourself, as so many seem to struggle with.
-Denver Snuffer
It's amazing the people I run into online who aren't interested in following men but seem to quote this man left and right and seem to depend on him.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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It seems we agree on more than we don't than. That's great! Its mainly about word usage and definitions. I simply referred to Denver's explanation because I felt he did a good job on that particular subject of explaining what I believe the proper definition of "following the prophet" is. I also quote many brethren from the church and others to help illustrate my views. I don't see that as a problem. Why should it be any different if I quote Snuffer if he expresses my view more eloquently than I can? I believe the usual intent of that phrase that many people often spout "follow the prophet" sells a person short and places too much dependence on them for salvation. Some will follow that mantra to the point of ignoring the Holy Ghost altogether. And Ignoring anyone who doesn't hold some "official authoritative position". I believe that is an example of the way some people may sell themselves short.

And as a side note, I actually RARELY ever quote Denver Snuffer and anyone who is familiar with my posts could attest to that. I quote Joseph Smith and the scriptures more often than anything else.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

Post by Seek the Truth »

AshleyB wrote:It seems we agree on more than we don't than. That's great! Its mainly about word usage and definitions. I simply referred to Denver's explanation because I felt he did a good job on that particular subject of explaining what I believe the proper definition of "following the prophet" is. I also quote many brethren from the church and others to help illustrate my views. I don't see that as a problem. Why should it be any different if I quote Snuffer if he expresses my view more eloquently than I can?
For me, no difference. However I hear people saying following men is bad but then they follow certain men. It's not clear to me yet what everyone's beliefs are in this regard.
I believe the usual intent of that phrase that many people often spout "follow the prophet" sells a person short and places too much dependence on them for salvation.
The objection to this phrase, "follow the prophet" is brand new to me and I'm only finding out about it on the internet. I can't imagine how it would lead to someone selling themselves short. I consider it a great blessing to live in a time where we have a prophet of God on the earth to receive guidance and revelation. I'll take revelation any way I can get it.
Some will follow that mantra to the point of ignoring the Holy Ghost altogether.
I've literally never met anyone like this in my life. I am not from Utah however.
And Ignoring anyone who doesn't hold some "official authoritative position". I believe that is an example of the way some people may sell themselves short.
I believe being lukewarm is roundly warned against throughout scripture, and I agree it's something we should all be aware of.
And as a side note, I actually RARELY ever quote Denver Snuffer and anyone who is familiar with my posts could attest to that. I quote Joseph Smith and the scriptures more often than anything else.
I am new to this forum and have noticed that some people are willing to quote some men and not others, which I do not yet understand and I don't know everyone's tendencies in this regard. I regard the Presidents of the LDS Church as prophets like Moses or Isaiah or Jesus (in his role as prophet, not as his role as savior), and the Apostles of the LDS Church are like the apostles of old, and I value their teachings equally.

There are people on this forum who do not agree with this as far as I can tell and they baffle me, and I do not understand much of it. I do not intend to be offensive but I believe some of these other positions are trouble. Of course no two people are identical in terms of their beliefs, but some trends seem to exists. to the degree that I participate in this forum or other social interaction it seems like my obligations are like any other, to understand other people and for well meaning people to challenge each other in hopes of being in harmony with the truth and righteousness and sifting out error.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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"For me, no difference. However I hear people saying following men is bad but then they follow certain men. It's not clear to me yet what everyone's beliefs are in this regard."

You conclude someone follows Denver if they quote him? That seems a shallow and unfair assumption to me. I can only speak for myself but as for me my whole point is that regardless of WHO the person is I take away from their offerings of information based on where the spirit leads. There are some things I think Brigham Young was dead on with. In some ways I feel he was way off. There are some ways in which I believe Snuffer is dead on and others where I don't believe that. Same with Bruce R. Mckonkie, or President Packer, Hugh Nibley, John Pontius.... take your pick really. But you will never find me living on every word ANYONE says UNLESS I have received confirmation. If I haven't I may consider something and ponder over it but I am not prone to agree with something just because a person who has gained any kind of recognition has said it. That is the point of what I was trying to say. At the end of the day men are men and I don't pledge my allegiance to any of them.


Some will follow that mantra to the point of ignoring the Holy Ghost altogether. " I've literally never met anyone like this in my life."

Well stick around! You will meet some. I have heard some people say that if the Holy Ghost told them anything that conflicted with one of the brethren they would not trust it. They would automatically assume their inspiration was wrong because the apostles know better than they do. They suppose it is an apostles job to receive personal revelation for them and they trust someone else with their own salvation by doing that IMO. If they never learn the process and learn to trust their own revelations how will they ever meet the Savior and be redeemed from the Fall? If you search enough you will definitely find people saying things like that. But my purpose really wasn't to bring other people into this discussion. I am not here to judge or condemn or mock what others may choose to do. My only purpose has been to explain my own views.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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AshleyB wrote:"For me, no difference. However I hear people saying following men is bad but then they follow certain men. It's not clear to me yet what everyone's beliefs are in this regard."

You conclude someone follows Denver if they quote him?
Me? Not necessarily. I've just noticed a number of people who quote him will turn around and criticize brethren following. It seems like an obvious contradiction.

Personally I think you could quote him and be a follower or not.
That seems a shallow and unfair assumption to me. I can only speak for myself but as for me my whole point is that regardless of WHO the person is I take away from their offerings of information based on where the spirit leads.
Well the thing is that the Lord, Jesus Christ, has said in D&C 1:38 that when a prophet speaks it is the same as if he speaks, so yes I will treat the words of a prophet very differently than a person off the street, a Sunday School teacher or a blogger.
There are some things I think Brigham Young was dead on with. In some ways I feel he was way off. There are some ways in which I believe Snuffer is dead on and others where I don't believe that. Same with Bruce R. Mckonkie, or President Packer, Hugh Nibley, John Pontius.... take your pick really.
I would put Prophets and Apostles in a different category because I think it is clear that Jesus does.
But you will never find me living on every word ANYONE says UNLESS I have received confirmation. If I haven't I may consider something and ponder over it but I am not prone to agree with something just because a person who has gained any kind of recognition has said it. That is the point of what I was trying to say. At the end of the day men are men and I don't pledge my allegiance to any of them.
Well I certainly have no problem with people praying for confirmation of any kind, but I hear some seem to say (I could be wrong and would be happy to be wrong) that those called Prophets in SLC today are not to be believed unless the Spirit says so, which I think is unsupportable by any revelation you can find.
Some will follow that mantra to the point of ignoring the Holy Ghost altogether. " I've literally never met anyone like this in my life."

Well stick around! You will meet some. I have heard some people say that if the Holy Ghost told them anything that conflicted with one of the brethren they would not trust it.
I don't think this is a terrible idea. In my experience I have seen many who claimed that they were inspired to marry someone, or take a job or some other major life decision that ended in total disaster. I think for quite a few people, if you receive a prompting that is at odds with the teachings of prophets I would proceed with great caution. I think we are warned against spiritual deception quite a bit for a reason. The scriptures are full of examples of prophets having to correct the members of going off after strange and crazy things. It seems that is a role that prophets and apostles play. I'm sure many think they were following the spirit.
They would automatically assume their inspiration was wrong because the apostles know better than they do. They suppose it is an apostles job to receive personal revelation for them and they trust someone else with their own salvation by doing that IMO.
I'm not sure. Clearly the apostles and prophets are the conduits of revelation to Israel, but I'm not sure that means people "trust them with their salvation". I don't know anyone like that.
If they never learn the process and learn to trust their own revelations how will they ever meet the Savior and be redeemed from the Fall? If you search enough you will definitely find people saying things like that. But my purpose really wasn't to bring other people into this discussion. I am not here to judge or condemn or mock what others may choose to do. My only purpose has been to explain my own views.
Again, I don't know of a General Authority of any kind who has ever taught anything other than you can only gain a testimony through the Holy Ghost and that you must get it yourself and not second hand. So whoever you may be talking about are clearly at odds with the teachings of our authorities. If they followed the prophets better they shouldn't have these problems.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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If following after equates to learning to have your own connection to heaven this it is certainly NOT a bad thing. It is just how it was intended. If following after equates to continual dependence on another human being for direction in personal affairs and never experiencing your own encounters with heaven or seeking to have them then following would be a vain dead end. I think we can agree on that.

I do believe the general authorities teach to seek Christ. I never meant to imply they don't. When I mentioned not agreeing on ever issue I was speaking on matters of doctrine and matters of opinion. The GA's themselves don't all agree on everything. And I do sustain them as prophets, seers, and revelators. However, I have found things on occasion that I have not agreed with. With Brigham Young for example. I believe him been way off in his teaching blood oaths and I believe he inadvertently created an environment where atrocious things happened. That is just one example. It really isn't something that happens often but it does happen sometimes that I find they are wrong on some things. Does that demean them or mean they are not at all or ever inspired? Not in my mind it doesn't. I believe also being aware that they are not always testifying but rather speaking personal opinion on things helps. I am not required to agree with all of their personal opinions and sometimes such as in Brighams case believing it could create an environment where things happen that are not good and are to the detriment of those involved. Everyone is capable of error and everyone teaches the doctrine of men mingled with scripture. Including the GA's too. Some believe GA's are perfect and could never falter but I don't believe that and I believe it is not fair to them to make such an assumption. At the same time I have never criticized any of them either and don't ever intend to. I am not their Judge and I love them.

I also don't define a prophet by the status of GA. I believe there are many prophets who are not GA's. I have come to find this through listening to the Holy Ghost. It is the only way to tell who really is a prophet. Also, I don't think just because someone gets put in the office it means they automatically are either. The call of the office is one thing and reality is another. Just the way someone can receive a physical ordinance and be told "Receive the Holy Ghost!" and still not necessarily receive it I believe a person can receive the call to be a special witness and never attain to that goal. I beleive there are also different levels of being a prophet and seer. Some have the gifts more than others. That is likely one other area where we differ in opinion. But it has been documented in church history and written in journals of some of the past GA's that there were some called to the office who barely had a testimony and they were called because of their business abilities. The GA's are the only ones authorized to direct the affairs of the church but that doesn't also mean there are not other messengers on the Lord's errand to help build up the kingdom in their own small way.

Further, It is the job of the GA's to speak to the church collectively so I can't really expect them to receive revelation for me on a personal basis. Nor would I want them too.

Also, anyone can be a prophet and anyone can speak the words of Christ if they are filled with the spirit. Revelation IS the gift of prophecy. Anyone who has the Holy Ghost and receives revelations experiences the gift of prophecy. You cannot have one without the other. Joseph Smith taught this. I agree with following prophets in the correct sense. But Its my opinion that only allowing the possibility of a GA being a prophet is a bit short sighted. But do you just assume everything every GA says for instance are the words of Christ? Or do you suppose some is undoubtedly personal opinion? If you believe there is a difference what would be a good way to tell the difference? By what the spirit says perhaps? And maybe their opinion is right and it would be confirmed. Maybe not.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

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"I also don't define a prophet by the status of GA. I believe there are many prophets who are not GA's. I have come to find this through listening to the Holy Ghost. It is the only way to tell who really is a prophet"

What?

A prophet . . . is the authorized representative of the Lord. While the world may not recognize him, the important requirement is that God speaks through him.

Although the Church has many men who serve as “General Authorities,” only the First Presidency and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators.

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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

Post by AshleyB »

They are officially sustained as such but that doesn't mean just because your not sustained as such that you are not a prophet either. Was Jesus Christ sustained in the hierarchy of his day? Definitely not. What about Samuel the Lamanite? John the Baptist? Were any of them sustained as Prophets in the church hierarchy? What about Daniel, Lehi...etc...etc..etc... The church of the Firstborn isn't the same as the LDS institution and men and woman alike can and will be given callings directly from God. Everyone has a mission and everyone who seeks is given gifts of the spirit. The gifts of the spirit are how the powers of Godliness are made manifest. Receiving this gifts and blessing are how we keep our religion from becoming vein and trifling. Because we don't deny the power of God by unbelief. Just because some callings are not recognized in the LDS church institution it doesn't make them any less legitimate in God's Kingdom. However, the GA's are the only ones authorized to direct the affairs of the church as a whole and that is because of the common consent of the people. I don't understand why people sometimes get this idea that there is only ever ONE prophet on the earth at a time. There are usually many. Recognized or not. What made the people listen to John the Baptist? The ones who listened to him are those who listened to the Spirit. That is how they recognized him for what he was. And poor old John got beheaded. And we all know what happened to Christ. If the people in Christs day were only willing to listen to those who were recognized by the church and ignored anyone else than those were the same people guilt of crucifying Him.

Anyone who receives revelation has the gift of prophecy. Anyone who properly "follows the prophets" WILL become prophets themselves. Joseph taught this. Just like anyone who can see into the veil is a seer. There are those who have different levels of these things manifested in them but anyone can become a prophet, seer, and revelator and everyone ought to.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

14 ¶Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet’s son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:
15 And the Lord took me as I followed the flock, and the Lord said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel.
Just do a search for the word "prophet" on the LDS scripture website, and you can read all about prophets (and prophetesses) of God who were not in church leadership positions. A prophet of God speaks the truth and testifies of Christ, and it is ratified by the Holy Ghost - they are not necessarily someone who has been called to a leadership position in the church.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.

28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.

29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!
28 ¶And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
Etc...

So should we ignore these prophets of God just because we have a President Monson? @-)

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Visions of Glory - As told to John Pontius

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

AshleyB wrote:They are officially sustained as such but that doesn't mean just because your not sustained as such that you are not a prophet either. Was Jesus Christ sustained in the hierarchy of his day? Definitely not. What about Samuel the Lamanite? John the Baptist? Were any of them sustained as Prophets in the church hierarchy? What about Daniel, Lehi...etc...etc..etc... The church of the Firstborn isn't the same as the LDS institution and men and woman alike can and will be given callings directly from God. Everyone has a mission and everyone who seeks is given gifts of the spirit. The gifts of the spirit are how the powers of Godliness are made manifest. Receiving this gifts and blessing are how we keep our religion from becoming vein and trifling. Because we don't deny the power of God by unbelief. Just because some callings are not recognized in the LDS church institution it doesn't make them any less legitimate in God's Kingdom. However, the GA's are the only ones authorized to direct the affairs of the church as a whole and that is because of the common consent of the people. I don't understand why people sometimes get this idea that there is only ever ONE prophet on the earth at a time. There are usually many. Recognized or not. What made the people listen to John the Baptist? The ones who listened to him are those who listened to the Spirit. That is how they recognized him for what he was. And poor old John got beheaded. And we all know what happened to Christ. If the people in Christs day were only willing to listen to those who were recognized by the church and ignored anyone else than those were the same people guilt of crucifying Him.

Anyone who receives revelation has the gift of prophecy. Anyone who properly "follows the prophets" WILL become prophets themselves. Joseph taught this. Just like anyone who can see into the veil is a seer. There are those who have different levels of these things manifested in them but anyone can become a prophet, seer, and revelator and everyone ought to.
:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

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