DNA Evidence for BofM Geography

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_ ... erican_dna

Indian DNA links to 6 'founding mothers'

By MALCOLM RITTER, AP Science WriterThu Mar 13, 10:33 AM ET

Nearly all of today's Native Americans in North, Central and South America can trace part of their ancestry to six women whose descendants immigrated around 20,000 years ago, a DNA study suggests.

Those women left a particular DNA legacy that persists to today in about about 95 percent of Native Americans, researchers said.

The finding does not mean that only these six women gave rise to the migrants who crossed into North America from Asia in the initial populating of the continent, said study co-author Ugo Perego.

The women lived between 18,000 and 21,000 years ago, though not necessarily at exactly the same time, he said.

The work was published this week by the journal PLoS One. Perego is from the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation in Salt Lake City and the University of Pavia in Italy.

The work confirms previous indications of the six maternal lineages, he said. But an expert unconnected with the study said the findings left some questions unanswered.

Perego and his colleagues traced the history of a particular kind of DNA that represents just a tiny fraction of the human genetic material, and reflects only a piece of a person's ancestry.

This DNA is found in the mitochondria, the power plants of cells. Unlike the DNA found in the nucleus, mitochondrial DNA is passed along only by the mother. So it follows a lineage that connects a person to his or her mother, then the mother's mother, and so on.

The researchers created a "family tree" that traces the different mitochondrial DNA lineages found in today's Native Americans. By noting mutations in each branch and applying a formula for how often such mutations arise, they calculated how old each branch was. That indicated when each branch arose in a single woman.

The six "founding mothers" apparently did not live in Asia because the DNA signatures they left behind aren't found there, Perego said. They probably lived in Beringia, the now-submerged land bridge that stetched to North America, he said.

Connie Mulligan of the University of Florida, an anthropolgist who studies the colonization of the Americas but didn't participate in the new work, said it's not surprising to trace the mitochondrial DNA to six women. "It's an OK number to start with right now," but further work may change it slightly, she said.

That finding doesn't answer the bigger questions of where those women lived, or of how many people left Beringia to colonize the Americas, she said Thursday.

The estimate for when the women lived is open to question because it's not clear whether the researchers properly accounted for differing mutation rates in mitochondrial DNA, she said. Further work could change the estimate, "possibly dramatically," she said.

___

On the Net:

PLoS One: http://www.plosone.org

(This version CORRECTS explanation of mitochondrial DNA))

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

I have been starting to use Skousens "treasures from the Book of Mormon" study guides, and it is AWESOME all that he has there. I will have to see what else I can find of Nibley's. Skousen mentions his stuff a lot.

I love the Samaritan prophecies about Joseph Smith, they are just awesome.

[BroJones]

The article referred to by S&P is also discussed in today's DesNews, with additional info:

DNA study by Sorenson links most Native Americans
Genes from 6 'founding mothers' seen in 95% of Americas' Indians
By Joe Bauman
Deseret Morning News
Published: March 14, 2008
Ninety-five percent of Native Americans can trace their ancestry to six "founding mothers" who arrived in the New World about 20,000 years ago, says a study by Utah-based Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation and the University of Pavia, Italy.

The date is about when humans first arrived in the Americas, according to the research.

The 95 percent figure is true whether today's Native Americans live in North, Central or South America, adds the study.

The research was published online Wednesday by the Public Library of Science, http://www.plos.org.

According to the study, this is the most comprehensive research ever into the genetic origins of Native Americans.

The finding does not mean that only six ancestral women reached the Americas around 20,000 years ago, says one of the co-authors, Ugo A. Perego, director of operations at the foundation based in Salt Lake City.

The research was based on studies of mitochondrial DNA, abbreviated as mtDNA, which is passed only from mothers to daughters. If a woman founder had only sons, her mtDNA would not have been passed down although she would have descendants.

Also, a press release from the foundation notes, "The study also confirms the presence of genetic subgroups of more rare, less known and geographically limited genetic groups who arrived later." Those groups are not detailed in the paper.

The scientists studied all available complete mtDNA data for Native Americans, amounting to more than 200 samples.

The mtDNA passed along from the six founding mothers is related to, but different from, mtDNA among today's northern Asians.

(The difference is because DNA changes over time. Using the known rate of change, scientists calculated the 20,000-year figure.)

The relationship reinforces the idea that the earliest peopling of the Americas happened because of a land bridge, called Beringia, that once stretched between Alaska and Russia.

The land bridge allowed people to live between today's continents. People and animals lived on Beringia probably for "a few thousands of years," Perego said.

When the climate im- proved and the ice melted, people "found an open, free corridor to go to America," he said.

"It appears that the migration was very rapid, and they reached southern Chile very rapidly as well."

In America, they found a better climate and the population increased rapidly, as reflected in the genetic information. "In the 20,000 years between the time of arrival and today, many different sub-lineages began."

As the settlers moved south, they populated more and more of North, Central and South America.

The study is titled, "The Phylogeny of the Four Pan-American MtDNA Haplogroups: Implications for Evolutionary and Disease Studies." Its authors are Antonio Torroni, the lead author and Perego's mentor, and Alessandro Achilli and Antonio Torroni, all of the University of Pavia; Perego and Scott R. Woodward of Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation; Claudio M. Bravi of Instituto Multidisciplinario de Biologia Celular, La Plata, Argentina; Michael D. Coble of the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory, Rockville, Md.; Qing-Peng Kong of the Kunming Institute of Zoology, Kunming, China; Antonio Salas of the Hospital Clinic University, Alicia, Spain; and Hans-Urgent Brandel of the University of Hamburg, Germany.

The nonprofit Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation was founded in 2000 by the late James LeVoy Sorenson and by Ira Fulton, with Brigham Young University in Provo providing a lab for testing genetic information. It has grown tremendously since. Its Web site notes the foundation is dedicated to building the world's foremost collection of DNA and corresponding genealogical information.

Here's the best part (IMO):

Also, a press release from the foundation notes, "The study also confirms the presence of genetic subgroups of more rare, less known and geographically limited genetic groups who arrived later." Those groups are not detailed in the paper.

Note that Haploid group X2 is found in Alogonquian native Americans (midwest and Great Lakes region), at high frequency, and found also in the Near East (Israel, Syria, Jordan), discussed with references in the DVD by Rod Meldrum -- who says this clade is NOT found elsewhere in the Americas, nor elsewhere in Eurasia as I recall.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

I found this interesting

When the climate im- proved and the ice melted, people "found an open, free corridor to go to America,"


D&C 133

26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.

27 And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep.

28 Their enemies shall become a prey unto them,

29 And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land.

30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.

31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.

[BroJones]

I agree, LC -- very interesting. I have thought that the land-bridge between Eurasia and America might re-form and provide the "highway" spoken of in DC 133. An earthquake could cast such a highway to be "cast up" in a hurry...

Note also that then the land of Zion and the land of Jerusalem would be re-connected = a possible scenario for verse 24.

[HeirofNumenor]

I have been starting to use Skousens "treasures from the Book of Mormon" study guides, and it is AWESOME all that he has there. I will have to see what else I can find of Nibley's. Skousen mentions his stuff a lot.

That wouldn't happen to be your mom's copy, would it? (She's missing vol. 1).

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

I have been starting to use Skousens "treasures from the Book of Mormon" study guides, and it is AWESOME all that he has there. I will have to see what else I can find of Nibley's. Skousen mentions his stuff a lot.

That wouldn't happen to be your mom's copy, would it? (She's missing vol. 1).

NO! LOL Although it was tempting. I did enjoy reading hers while I was there, but My hunny bought me all 4 for my birthday when we got back.

[dlowman]

Jumping into this dicussion a lil late. But I recently took a trip to the Cahokia indian mounds just outside ST. Louis. They are hugeeeeeee. About 20,000 people are thought to live there. They had their temple on the largerst man made hill. The fortifications I found to be intesting. It's in Rod's dvd. But they are made of timbers with towers about every 75 feet. The outside of them were covered in mud and straw which in essence is old world cement.
I also googled mound builder locations and found the vast majority are in ohio, mississipi, and kentucky.

Dan

P.s Nice to see some of you guys over here from LDSavow.

[dlowman]

Someone asked where Zelph was found during Zion's camp. Here it is:
On 3 June 1834, one mile south of modern Valley City, Illinois, in Pike County, on the top of Naples Russell Mound Number 8, members of Zion's Camp located some bones, including a broken femur and an arrowhead, approximately a foot below the earth's surface. Later Joseph Smith received by revelation the owner's identity and a few other facts regarding the manner in which he died.

Dan

[BroJones]

Just looking at earthquakes that have occurred in the last week... Noted a couple near the New Madrid fault (near Paducah, KY), small ones. And a 2.8 between Ottawa, Canada and Ogdensburg NY, so fairly near to Cumorah.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/rec ... 021918.php

Question arises -- were there quakes in these two areas (or actually, anywhere between them) around 34 AD? Is there a record of very large, historical quakes?

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

New Madrid has a history of being felt from coast to coast.

[WhisperFox]

Dr.Jones.

If you finish watching the video from Rod Meldrum you'll see he covers that, and yes, based only on the information from Rod (ie. not verified) there was a major event at the time of Christ at the New Madrid fault.

[BroJones]

Yes, I remember that, whisperfox... what I was hoping for was a reference, which as I recall Rod did not give for these circa 34 AD earthquakes...
PS -- I did finish the DVD, found it interesting for sure. Noting there are others who have done related research also! (I.e., this idea goes way back... Credit goes to Joseph Smith first!)

[kenai_snagger]

We may have a serious problem with this DNA connection.

I had the opportunity to view an early version of Rod Meldrum’s DVD. Meldrum presented a Haplogroup X connection between the Algonquin Indian tribes and the Druze population in Israel; I assume this same connection is a part of later versions. Since I knew nothing about the Druze, I naturally assumed the Druze were Hebrews practicing a more traditional form of the Jewish religion. A short search on Druze revealed this is not the case.

From what I read, the Druze religion is a spin-off from the Shiite sect of the Moslem religion about 1020 AD. Prior to this time little is known about the Druze or if they even existed as a community. There was a brief proselytizing period after which the community became a closed society after 1050 AD. Since 1050 the sect has been a closed society and has not and does not accept new members other than by birth. The Druze claim their beliefs are an interpretation of the Judaism, Christian, and Islam faiths.

The ethnic origin of the Druze is believed to be mostly Persian with some Arabic. The Persian origin would explain their intimate relationship with the Shiite faith, whose members are concentrated in Iran. I could find no claims of a Hebrew heritage.

The majority of the Druze reside in Syria and Lebanon with a small group in Northern Israel and the Golan Heights close to the boundary with Syria. Membership totals about one million. Although the group in Israel resides close to the northern border, it is not known if this has always been the case since the boundaries of Israel have changed frequently over the centuries; the current nation of Israel was formed in 1948. The group in Israel enjoys a cordial relationship with the Israeli government.

My question is how do we connect the Druze to the Hebrew population? Lehi makes it perfectly clear that he is from the lineage of Joseph. It is not clear if the Druze even existed as a community during the time of Lehi.

I invite responses from Rod Meldrum, jbalm, Dr. Jones, Whisper Fox, and anyone else who can shed some light on this problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druzehttp: ... wiki/Druze
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... druze.html
http://i-cias.com/e.o/druze.htm

[jbalm]

Kenai (Alaska?),

As I understand the DNA issue, the haploid X marker is problematic from a BOM standpoint because it first appeared on this continent several thousand years before BOM time (even the Jaredites)--around 10,000 years ago if I remember correctly. I've heard it said that the date could be more recent if the genetic mutation rate accelerated (but I'm way over my head here).

I know nothing about the Druze other than what you posted, but nothing says a group of that lineage could have traveled to the Americas prior to Lehi. Additionally, I believe that the haploid X marker could have possibly originated in the Scandinavian region, which would be a plausible origin for its presence in the northeastern tribes also.

The thing about DNA testing is that, at this point, it can't be used to prove the BOM. On the bright side, efforts to disprove the BOM using DNA have fallen flat, mainly because the attempts to do so were based upon a false premise.

I've heard that Br. Meldrum is a great guy. But I tend to disagree with his hypothesis at this point in time.

[jbalm]

Oh yeah, and I forgot to add that I don't know how to connect the Druze to Lehi. But the better question is: Can we connect the Druze to Sariah, or Ishmael's daughters?

Mitochondrial DNA is passed on from mother to daughter.

[kenai_snagger]

[quote="jbalm"]Kenai (Alaska?),

jbalm, yes, that is from the Kenai River in Alaska. In my younger and healthier days I fished the Kenai for many years… a great experience. I like this moniker because it reminds me of some great times I had fishing for Kenai Sockeye Salmon. I also enjoy receiving replies from other Kenai fishermen who recognize a kenai_snagger.

jbalm, I agree the haplogroup X represents female lineage using the MtDNA. However, Sara in all probability was of Hebrew lineage like her husband, Lehi, and had DNA representing female Hebrew lineages. Another factor to consider is that Lehi and his group left Jerusalem about 600 BC, just before the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and all the Tribes of Israel were taken into captivity by the Babylonians into what is present day Iraq. After this captivity many of the Tribes of Israel became dispersed.

It is reasonable that both Lehi and Sara had DNA’s that were representative of the Hebrew populations before the Babylonian dispersion and also a probable dispersion of the Hebrew DNA.

David Stewart has written a lengthy and scholarly paper on DNA and the Book of Mormon. He discusses both MtDNA(female) and Y-Chromosome (male) DNA. I have read only a portion of the paper, but here is a short quote:

“While some claim that the DNA similarities between Native Americans, Mongolians, and Siberians discredit LDS teachings, I find just the opposite: the consistency between genetic data, history, scripture, and modern patriarchal blessings is remarkable. Current DNA studies provide no evidence that the haplogroups shared between these groups were found in Mongolia or Siberia before the dispersion of Israel. Existing data also suggest that the prevalence of these haplogroups may have increased significantly over time among east Asian populations. Virtually nothing is known about the genetics of ancient Israel. The prophet Jeremiah, a contemporary of Lehi, declared that the "ten tribes" were dispersed to the "lands of the North" (Jeremiah 3:18, 16:15, 23: 8, 31:8)--a designation for which few lands seem as appropriate as the vast steppes of Siberia and Mongolia.”
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences ... ormon.html

[ChelC]

I really wanted to join this discussion, but I don't speak Chinese.

[Steve Clark]

Yes, I remember that, whisperfox... what I was hoping for was a reference, which as I recall Rod did not give for these circa 34 AD earthquakes...

I met up with Rod a couple weeks ago shortly, and he discussed a little more in depth the existence of major earthquakes around this time frame in that region. Going off memory, it seems that he was using information from a Discovery Channel documentary or something similar. He gave my father-in-law a copy of that show. I'll have to watch it and see what it shows. I'll also provide a reference when I remember to ask.

[BroJones]

Rod Meldrum speaking tonight in Provo! I just found out...

Provo, UT

TONIGHT
Friday April 25th 7:00-9:30 PM
Tahitian Noni International Center Auditorium
5151 North 300 West
Provo, UT 84604
Directions
From I-15 northbound
From I-15 southbound
Sponsored by the Ancient Historical Research Foundation
For more information please call Rod at 801-429-9751
Seating will be limited. First come, first served.

Also in South Jordan area, May 18:

ALSO SPEAKING in


South Jordan, UT
on
Sunday, May 18th, 7:00 pm location to be determined.

and in







Provo, UT, ALL DAY EVENT
Book of Mormon Geography Symposium
Featured Speakers include:
Rod Meldrum, DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography
Wayne May, Editor of Ancient American Magazine, Native American artifacts & oral histories
Shawn Davies, Ancient Historical Research Foundation President
Jeff Garff, author and documentary producer
Saturday, May 24th, 9:00 am to 9:00 pm, lunch will be provided (Cost of @ $15.00 ea)
Tahitian Noni International Center Auditorium
5151 North 300 West
Provo, UT 84604
Directions
From I-15 northbound
From I-15 southbound
Sponsored by the Ancient Historical Research Foundation and Sons of Utah Pioneers, Squaw Peak Chapter

[livy111us]

Don't disregard a Mesoamerican theory because of DNA. There is not only DNA evidence of a migration from the Middle East to the area of the Maya, but also biological evidence. FAIRs new video called "The Book of Mormon and New World DNA" interviews ACTUAL geneticists, anthropologists, linguists and other scholars. And what is found is interesting. You can catch a glimpse of the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--LJJcaSNps

I am a Mesoamerican theorist, but will go where evidence takes me. So far, I think the N American theory has some strong points, but has many more weak ones. A Mesoamerican setting still convinces me, as well as most scholars and Doctors of The Book of Mormon.

[natasha]

I subscribe to the Nephi Project and received this e-mail from them today. Thought it might interest a few of you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Nephi Project Newsletter 12 May 2008
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hebrew DNA found in American Indian populations in South America?

Just as George is preparing for his Book of Mormon research expedition to Peru and Bolivia, Scott R. Woodward, executive director of the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation has announced that a DNA marker called "Cohen modal haplotype" has been found in native people in Columbia, Brazil and Bolivia.

Why is this important?

Although Woodward warns about using DNA as evidence for or against the Book of Mormon, it is the first time a Hebrew specific DNA marker has been discovered among native people in the New World.

We encourage you to learn more about this discovery at:

http://mormontimes.com/DB_index.php?id=1064

Keep Exploring,

George Potter & Timothy Sedor

[moonwhim]

I recommend getting two books on Book of Mormon geography by Dr Duane R. Aston. He gives plenty of evidence to show that the Great Lakes Region is most likely where the B of M took place. He presents many maps, pictures and footnotes...both books are excellent and deserve more exposure.

I believe you can purchase his books through Deseret Books.

The Titles are:
Return to Cumorah
The Other Side of Cumorah

His website is: http://www.onecumorah.com

Here is info on Return to Cumorah:

------------------------------------------
Piecing Together Where the Nephites Lived


Now in its second printing, this captivating book attempts to demonstrate that the geographical setting for Book of Mormon events was most likely located in ancient North America, in the eastern Great Lakes area, where Hill Cumorah is found today.

Return To Cumorah begins by explaining how it came about that a second Hill Cumorah is necessary if one assumes that Book of Mormon lands were located in Central America. However, if it can be seen that Book of Mormon events took place in an eastern Great Lakes setting, where Hill Cumorah is today, one can soon realize that there is no need to propose any second Hill Cumorah.

In this book, striking and convincing correspondences in geography are presented piece by piece, as in the pieces of a puzzle. As the pieces come together in a convincing way, it becomes possible to solve the puzzle of Book of Mormon geography. In this process, with meticulous care, the author helps readers to identify plausible locations for almost all major cities and lands mentioned in Book of Mormon accounts.

It is left for readers to decide for themselves just how well the puzzle has been solved.

Piecing Together Where the Nephites Lived
This book is written in reader-friendly style, using many maps, pictures and illustrations, intended to hold the reader’s attention. Also, the subject seeks to answer many questions, a few of which are mentioned briefly as follows.

How did ruins discovered in Central America captivate the minds of the Saints in Nauvoo, in 1842, causing them to believe that Book of Mormon events had occurred there?

Where can a very good candidate for the “narrow neck of land” to be found today? How does this important feature of Book of Mormon geography help us to pinpoint where Book of Mormon lands most likely were located?

What is unique about the lands of Desolation and Bountiful that makes them quite uniquely identifiable today?

How can Book of Mormon accounts be interpreted in such a way as to piece together the puzzle of where the Nephites lived?

Why does the Limhi Expedition account strongly suggest a small and localized Book of Mormon geography?

What about archaeology and The Book of Mormon? To what degree should we expect to identify Nephite ruins today?

What about the cultures and customs of the Nephites and Lamanites? Are there clues in Book of Mormon accounts that find correspondences with what is known about the Indian tribes of North America?

[moonwhim]

Here is info on Dr Duane Aston's second book mentioned in my above post:

The Other Side of Cumorah

The Nephite Struggle for Survival in Their Land of Promise

The other side of Cumorah may have played an important role in Nephite and Jaredite last battles at Hill Cumorah. What might that role have been? The answer to this and many other questions will be explored in this new and fascinating book. What about Jaredite and Nephite voyages to America? Are there sufficient clues to be found in Book of Mormon accounts that can give us insight into such voyages? Readers may be surprised to find that many new and exciting ideas about such voyages have mostly been overlooked.

This book contains many maps, pictures and illustrations that are sure to hold the attention of readers from, first to last page.

A Few Interesting Points...

The Other Side of Cumorah presents a different picture of Nephite life in ancient North America. The Nephites are seen to occupy lands surrounded by other peoples, as was typically so for the Lord's people in the Old World.

This book is sure to pose more questions than it offers answers. A few of the topics discussed will pose questions such as:

Can 10 key points in geography, taken from Book of Mormon accounts, convince one that Book of Mormon lands are identifiable today?

Is it likely that the peoples of The Book of Mormon were "mound builders"?

Are all North American Indians Lamanite descendants?

What evidences are there that other peoples might have also existed within Book of Mormon times, in various places within what is today the United States?

How does the Book of Ether's "Great Sea" offer a convincing clue as to where and how the Jaredites may have come to ancient North America?

How do "borders of the Red Sea" become "evidence" for where Lehi most likely had come to on the Red Sea?

Do Book of Mormon accounts support the suggestion that Lehi and his family traveled in the footsteps of Israel, through Egypt's Sinai wilderness?

Can ancient Lebanon be seen as the "bountiful place" on the sea, from which Nephi built a ship, and Lehi's family sailed onward to ancient North America.

[livy111us]

I would recommend reading this before taking Astons work as doctrine:

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php ... e=cmV2aWV3

and this:
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php ... e=cmV2aWV3